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Honda Jazz 2010 - MOT advice - front brake disc lipped - hunterex

Brake disc lipped

Hi, I had a car service back in Dec 2021 & I had been informed that the front brake disc is 70% lipped.

My next MOT would be in mid July 2022.

Would the brake disc in the video above fail my test?

Can I change it after the MOT test?

Thanks

Edited by hunterex on 11/06/2022 at 17:34

Honda Jazz 2010 - MOT advice - front brake disc lipped - daveyjp

Just had similar with our Yaris and its an advisory so the discs will be changed when the front pads are done in a couple of weeks.

Honda Jazz 2010 - MOT advice - front brake disc lipped - elekie&a/c doctor
That’s definitely not an mot fail . A tester cannot fail the brakes for lipped discs unless he considers them dangerous.
Honda Jazz 2010 - MOT advice - front brake disc lipped - bathtub tom

That's normal wear. They should measure the thickness of the disc and quote you that, you could then compare it to the recommended minimum thickness. Would you change your tyres because you were told they were worn? They start wearing as soon as you leave the tyre fitters.

Honda Jazz 2010 - MOT advice - front brake disc lipped - edlithgow
That’s definitely not an mot fail . A tester cannot fail the brakes for lipped discs unless he considers them dangerous.

Dunno about "cannot".

"Should not", maybe, but the "unless he considers them dangerous." bit seems to provide a testers discretion get out.

I regularly got my brake discs failed for "visible rust" in Scotland, (though they passed the brake function test fine), so much so that I kept a shiny set for the MOT and replaced the used ones for further actual use after it.

However, I've been told this "cannot" happen.

www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=110241

I've also had an MOT tester test my welds for quite a long time with quite a BIG FH, which "cannot" happen either.

Big Nike fans, MOT testers. Quite glad I don't have to deal with them any more.

These days I grind the rusty lip off the disks with a flattened beer can, then apply a little sunflower oil and aluminium to the rims. This inhibits re-rusting quite well.

Edited by edlithgow on 12/06/2022 at 02:30

Honda Jazz 2010 - MOT advice - front brake disc lipped - John F

These days I grind the rusty lip off the disks with a flattened beer can.......

You might get rid of the rust but there is no way a soft metal can would 'grind off' the unworn hard steel lip. I use a carborundum wheel attached to my hand drill. This also helps to hone any ribbing on the working surface and remove any invisible localised variation in the quality of the surface - I cured some high speed brake judder from the 70,000 mile discs on my Audi by doing this. Garages always prefer to expensively replace perfectly good discs to cure what they erroneously describe as 'warping'.

Quality of steel is so much better these days that the risk of a cracked broken disc is vanishingly small, even if it gets too thin. Our Focus was unnecessarily given new discs at 29,000 miles before we bought it from a dealer. I replaced them only once - finally scrapped at 160,000+ miles. My 42yr old TR7 still has its original discs at 72,000 miles (but the tiny pads only last around 20 - 30,000 miles).

Honda Jazz 2010 - MOT advice - front brake disc lipped - edlithgow

These days I grind the rusty lip off the disks with a flattened beer can.......

You might get rid of the rust but there is no way a soft metal can would 'grind off' the unworn hard steel lip.

Agreed, though some of the hard steel lip has turned to rust, and the aluminium oxide on the surface of the aluminium is pretty hard.

I have heard...er...somewhere that the rust can migrate inwards a bit and undercut the edges of the brake pads, though I dunno if I believe it.

Honda Jazz 2010 - MOT advice - front brake disc lipped - FoxyJukebox
I had a recent SERVICE notification that my rear flexi brake hoses were corroded-4 yr old car car passed MOT though with no formal advisory .On reflection, due to their location, there’s always surface rust on brake hoses /pipes isn’t there?
Honda Jazz 2010 - MOT advice - front brake disc lipped - John F

There is if you don't service them, i.e. clean and grease them. This is not usually done at a garage 'service' because they like the work of replacing them when they get too rusty.

Honda Jazz 2010 - MOT advice - front brake disc lipped - Falkirk Bairn

My car is serviced at the beginning of September + MoT - at a local Indie I have used for 25 years+

This year it will be a service + MoT + anything needing looked at - this includes wheels off, disk brakes stripped down cleaned, greased and the handbrake drum brakes (integrated with disk) cleaned out & adjusted.

The Bi-annual Brake fettling is around £50+vat - a lot cheaper than sticking pads/scored disks and early replacement of discs & / or pads. Changing brake fluid in all probability is another £40 or so

The Honda fixed price discs & pads is £346 for front & the same for the back. £50 every 2 years seems a bargain buy

Honda Jazz 2010 - MOT advice - front brake disc lipped - edlithgow
I had a recent SERVICE notification that my rear flexi brake hoses were corroded-4 yr old car car passed MOT though with no formal advisory .On reflection, due to their location, there’s always surface rust on brake hoses /pipes isn’t there?

Brake hoses are rubber, but the end fittings can rust.

If you wipe a bit of sunflower oil on steel pipes and then rub them with aluminium foil they look pretty good afterwards and (providing there isn't heavy rain before it sets) it'll last a long time, probably even in Scotland, certainly here in Taiwan.

I did this on mine and then brought a brake flare kit and copper pipe back from the UK. since I wasnt sure I could get that stuff here.

Neednt have bothered, 7 years later the oil foil still looks OK.

While appearance is important for the MOT, very corroded brake pipes are weakened and shouldn't be hidden by this treatment.

Honda Jazz 2010 - MOT advice - front brake disc lipped - Bolt
I had a recent SERVICE notification that my rear flexi brake hoses were corroded-4 yr old car car passed MOT though with no formal advisory .On reflection, due to their location, there’s always surface rust on brake hoses /pipes isn’t there?

Brake hoses are rubber, but the end fittings can rust.

If you wipe a bit of sunflower oil on steel pipes and then rub them with aluminium foil they look pretty good afterwards and (providing there isn't heavy rain before it sets) it'll last a long time, probably even in Scotland, certainly here in Taiwan.

I did this on mine and then brought a brake flare kit and copper pipe back from the UK. since I wasnt sure I could get that stuff here.

Neednt have bothered, 7 years later the oil foil still looks OK.

While appearance is important for the MOT, very corroded brake pipes are weakened and shouldn't be hidden by this treatment.

I doubt sunflower oil would stay on steel here in UK as we have so much salt sprayed on the road during the winter, so its not worth doing, may as well have the flexi pipes replaced as and when needed, I noticed that a lot use grease on steel pipes but end up with advisories for covering the pipe....

as for lipped discs, unless the discs are new, its rare to see a motor without lipped discs but as long as they are within OEM limits and brake fine then ok.

Honda Jazz 2010 - MOT advice - front brake disc lipped - edlithgow
I had a recent SERVICE notification that my rear flexi brake hoses were corroded-4 yr old car car passed MOT though with no formal advisory .On reflection, due to their location, there’s always surface rust on brake hoses /pipes isn’t there?

Brake hoses are rubber, but the end fittings can rust.

If you wipe a bit of sunflower oil on steel pipes and then rub them with aluminium foil they look pretty good afterwards and (providing there isn't heavy rain before it sets) it'll last a long time, probably even in Scotland, certainly here in Taiwan.

I did this on mine and then brought a brake flare kit and copper pipe back from the UK. since I wasnt sure I could get that stuff here.

Neednt have bothered, 7 years later the oil foil still looks OK.

While appearance is important for the MOT, very corroded brake pipes are weakened and shouldn't be hidden by this treatment.

I doubt sunflower oil would stay on steel here in UK as we have so much salt sprayed on the road during the winter, so its not worth doing...

Doubt is healthy, but for certainty, you have to test...

I havn't tested it in the UK since I didn't think of it until after I got here, but its pretty tough once polymerised, so I THINK it would hold up well, probably at least as well as grease, which you could in any case apply over the top of it.

An advantage over grease is that it is much better cosmetically, looking like galvanising. Cosmetics are important for the MOT, and I have heard of them objecting to grease because it would prevent them from spotting fluid leaks.

Honda Jazz 2010 - MOT advice - front brake disc lipped - edlithgow

For UK conditions, it might be worth using linseed oil ("boiled" or natural) as an aluminium binder, since it would set quicker.

That would be hard to find here in Taiwan, but fortunately for most of my purposes it isn't really necessary.

Honda Jazz 2010 - MOT advice - front brake disc lipped - madf

Our 2012 Jazz is on original shiny disks. no lips.

Every 2-3 years I rotate the hub (jacked up,wheel off ) with a screwdriver tip applied to the lip

After 2 or so rotations ,no lip. Repeat other wheel.

But then I diy and service brakes..

Honda Jazz 2010 - MOT advice - front brake disc lipped - focussed

Presumably you can get Tung oil in Taiwan? It's is a good drying oil and produces a waterproof coating as does soya bean oil.

Honda Jazz 2010 - MOT advice - front brake disc lipped - edlithgow

Well spotted. I believe you can get Tung oil.

I think its a component in a traditional boat caulking, (with IIRC oyster shell lime and coconut fibre. Potential "Bondo" substitute?) and I've been told by some of my adult evening class students they used it during their National Service to treat the brass buckles on parade dress uniforms.

I've just never got around to noting down the Chinese character and locating some, since for most of my purposes sunflower oil is good enough and dries fast enough in the local climate.

For some purposes, notably underbody anti-rust treatment, you perhaps don't want it to set fast, since you want to give it soak-and-creep-time. Castor oil is probably relatively stable but a bit expensive, followed by rape seed/canola, which is available fairly cheaply.

I didn't know soya oil was classed as a drying oil, but when I've used it my impression (no systematic study) was it had a greater tendency to grow mould, a hazard here especially in enclosed spaces, given the high humidity.

Edited by edlithgow on 14/06/2022 at 00:42

Honda Jazz 2010 - MOT advice - front brake disc lipped - Adampr

Apologies for the nanny state interjection, but please be careful selecting and using oils. Once you get away from stuff you'd eat, some are very flammable. A lot of shop-bought stuff contains solvents to keep it liquid. Most teak oil, for instance, contains enough VOCs to create a risk of self-ignition.

A friend of mine who builds guitars uses tung oil and applies it with cotton rags that are put into a bucket of water when he's done.

In short, probably avoid anything with high VOC levels, and make sure it doesn't get on anything hot.

Honda Jazz 2010 - MOT advice - front brake disc lipped - edlithgow

IIRC Waxoyl (which I've only used once, and didn't like that much) is/was thinned with white spirit, which probably renders it quite flammable.

In the past, when spraying oils (usually a mixture of new motor oil and sunflower oil) I've used diesel as a thinner, which smells worse and might be a dermatitis risk, but isnt very flammable.

I think the rags thing perhaps relates to a spontaneous combustion risk, rather than VOC content per se. As I understand it, the large surface area of the rag can give rise to very rapid oxidation of the oil (which has a lot of unsaturated bonds, which is what makes it a drying oil)

This rapid large scale oxidation can raise the temperature above the ignition point.

If I was applying Tung oil to a surface I'd probably be too stingy to use a rag. Even with sunflower oil I usually use a plastic bag glove stylee to spread it, and the plastic doesn't absorb much.

With brake pipes we are talking about a tiny amount, rubbed in with a ball of compressed aluminium foil which conforms to the shape of the pipe. The foil ball can get pretty hot but thats probably friction, and maybe surface oxidation of the aluminium.

Then again some people put petrol in their cars. Doesn't bear thinking about.

They make napalm with it, you know.

Honda Jazz 2010 - MOT advice - front brake disc lipped - Adampr

I'm not saying don't do it, I would just hate someone to burn their house down and realise they made a schoolboy error afterwards.

Honda Jazz 2010 - MOT advice - front brake disc lipped - edlithgow

Fair enough.

I suppose the spontaneous combustion thing is a bit of a gotcha because its a bit counter intuitive, and in fact tends to especially apply to materials that are not normally especially flammable.

Petrol, for example, is horribly flammable stuff (they make napalm with it, you know) but it isn't likely to spontaneously combust.

Honda Jazz 2010 - MOT advice - front brake disc lipped - Big John

Petrol, for example, is horribly flammable stuff (they make napalm with it, you know) but it isn't likely to spontaneously combust.

Petrol is indeed horribly flammable / explosive stuff. Back in the day when stripping cars down, inc removing petrol tank/lines etc, ready to do body work now matter how much I'd ventilated / waited etc I learnt to look away on the first weld as used to sometimes get a mini "poooof" on the first spark of a weld. Not much but enough to shorten your eye lashes!

The other issue was avoiding setting fire to anything else - I always tried to keep another person handy to keep an eye out. There are lots of potentially flammable things associated with a car.

Edited by Big John on 14/06/2022 at 22:24

Honda Jazz 2010 - MOT advice - front brake disc lipped - edlithgow

2 near-death experiences with petrol, though really impossible to say how near

1) Knocked up by nosey neighbor woman saying my 1800 Marina was leaking petrol from its (brimmed last night, naturally) tank down the street gutter under lots of much more expensive cars.

What to do? Believing that siphoning petrol from a full tank was only likely to work in the movies, I elected to remove the tank and decant.

Lying under the car in a pool of petrol, with the tank lowered onto my chest, I was disconnecting the float sender and worrying about sparks (did I disconnect the battery?) when I became conscious of a face down beside the car.

Nosey neighbor woman. "How are you getting on?"

Did I mention she was a chain smoker?

Couldn't speak at first, then I had to be frigidly polite to avoid agitating the stupid cow, and the long piece of glowing ash just above the gutter.

2) Same car. My First Welding, using TA oxyacetylene kit and the TA inspection pit.

LUXURY

Whats that thing inside this box section that I'm welding a new floor on, directly over my head?

Looks like a plastic pipe. I can tell its plastic because its melting a bit in the heat of the oxyacetylene flame.

Looks like a plastic fuel line, because thats what it is.

OOER!