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White Fish - sammy1

Another eye opener today as it is reported that we face a shortage of fish for our chippies. Apparently 30% of our fish comes from Russia and a lot from Ukraine. Used to be plenty of fish in the Dogger Bank and our other coastal waters. Now we have quotas with the very depleted UK fishing industry catching fish and in some cases having to throw parts of their catch back in the sea. It is difficult to imagine the complications that are going on within UK industries and the Imports that are coming into the UK all of which are adding to the climate change fiasco if it even exists.

Everywhere you look there appears to be a problem of shortage of staff to meet vacancies in UK business from the hospitality industry to airports and airlines yet we still seem to have a large percentage of the working population on benefits

White Fish - Andrew-T

Everywhere you look there appears to be a problem of shortage of staff to meet vacancies in UK business from the hospitality industry to airports and airlines yet we still seem to have a large percentage of the working population on benefits.

That seems to suggest that a chunk of the 'working population' doesn't want the available jobs, or they all live in the wrong places ? Not news to me, I'm afraid.

As regards fish, the traditional Portuguese diet includes various dishes made from salt cod (bacalhau). For many years that has come from Norway. Partly due to global warming, and partly to overfishing, the shoals are no longer where they used to be.

White Fish - Xileno

Chippies might have to start using alternatives, coley for example is a cheaper and more sustainable alternative to cod. Some people think it's only for cats but it's not, it's a good flaky white fish from the UK and very tasty.

White Fish - focussed

Chippies might have to start using alternatives, coley for example is a cheaper and more sustainable alternative to cod. Some people think it's only for cats but it's not, it's a good flaky white fish from the UK and very tasty.

The UK consumer is stuck on cod in the south of the UK and haddock in the north.

When I lived in east anglia I used to buy rod and line caught cod from the beach at Aldeburgh, I knew a couple of young fishermen from looking after their engines. They were then going out 25 -30 miles on their 25 foot beach boat rod and line fishing over the wrecks, selling it from their pitch on the beach, line caught cod is much better eating than trawl caught as it doesn't get mangled about in the net.

That's where the cod are nowadays after the trawlers have fished the north sea out, the cod and other fish loiter behind the wrecks to avoid swimming against the tide and grow fat quicker on the smaller fish that do the same. The trawlers won't fish near the wrecks - too risky to lose or damage £5 k's worth of gear on the wreck.

We eat fish a couple of times a week in France but rarely cod unless our local Aldi has breaded fillets ready to fry. It 's usually merlu (hake) saithe (lieu noir) pollack (lieu jaune) or limande (dabs) - occasionally lingue (ling)

Whether the UK chip shop customer will ever try something else other than cod or haddock is a good question!

Edited by focussed on 01/06/2022 at 22:27

White Fish - alan1302

Everywhere you look there appears to be a problem of shortage of staff to meet vacancies in UK business from the hospitality industry to airports and airlines yet we still seem to have a large percentage of the working population on benefits

The unemployment rate is 4.1% which is low and lower than many EU countries. Poor hours and low wages makes recruitment hard in hospitality.

White Fish - bathtub tom

The unemployment rate is 4.1% which is low and lower than many EU countries. Poor hours and low wages makes recruitment hard in hospitality.

Perhaps reflected by the large numbers of folk on benefits and the reason why so many are prepared to take chances crossing the channel in flimsy craft. Maybe our welfare system is too generous?

White Fish - alan1302

The unemployment rate is 4.1% which is low and lower than many EU countries. Poor hours and low wages makes recruitment hard in hospitality.

Perhaps reflected by the large numbers of folk on benefits and the reason why so many are prepared to take chances crossing the channel in flimsy craft. Maybe our welfare system is too generous?

If you ever have to reply just on benefits you will understand it's not great.

They come here as the UK (despite what some of the residents think) is seen as a great country - one of freedom, good people and a chance of a great life. And many people will know some English as well as it's a common language which is another reason they would want to come. The welfare system won't come into it as people desperate enough to come here will want to work their socks off to stay.

White Fish - daveyjp

We have a serious issue with our workforce. There are simply not enough skilled staff in the right places to fill the vacancies.

According to a travel industry consultant I heard on radio this week there are currently 1m vacancies in tourism which includes airports, aviation, hospitality etc. Heathrow alone needs 12,000 staff to operate as it did before Covid.

There has also been a huge increase in the number of highly skilled people in their 50s who after Covid decided now was the time to simply decide not to work and take the pension, sell their business and go and do something less stressful.

I know a few. Since the end of the lockdowns friends who were dentists, doctors, rail staff, solicitors, local authority employees, teachers, supermarket employees are now all semi or fully retired. None of them are 60. All are looking far younger than a few years ago!

I doubt many of them will be lookimg to work on trawlers to catch fish for their fish and chips.

White Fish - Andrew-T

Since the end of the lockdowns friends who were dentists, doctors, rail staff, solicitors, local authority employees, teachers, supermarket employees are now all semi or fully retired. None of them are 60. All are looking far younger than a few years ago!

That may be true near you. The local supermarket here seems to have several middle-aged or even older staff ... :-)

White Fish - Rerepo

We spend about three quarters of each year overseas - at our properties in Thailand and Mojacar, Spain. No problem getting fish in either location and the price hasn't changed much recenly - we eat out every day and enjoy seafood. In Thailand plenty of sea bream, tilapia, prawns, crab, clams, squid, tuna and mackerel etc - the markets are full of it. Ditto in Spain - we eat fish almost daily.

A lot of the UK's problems stem from an overly generous welfare system. I understand that the number of job vacancies exceeds the number of unemployed - so I fail to understand why unemployment benefit is being paid. A bit more 'not work, not eat' is required! Time also to take a long hard look at the vast army of supposed 'disabled' - the numbers seem to have grown exponentially in recent years.

White Fish - Andrew-T

A bit more 'not work, not eat' is required! Time also to take a long hard look at the vast army of supposed 'disabled' - the numbers seem to have grown exponentially in recent years.

One difficulty with that suggestion is that it might lead to more thieving or shoplifting. And I suspect that quite a number of these people prioritise expenditure on certain life-enhancing additives - which don't come particularly cheap.

White Fish - Xileno

"I understand that the number of job vacancies exceeds the number of unemployed - so I fail to understand why unemployment benefit is being paid."

One reason is that the surplus of labour is not where the vacancies are. Mobility of labour is poor in the UK, not helped by the inadequate supply of social housing.

White Fish - Falkirk Bairn

Unemployment figures in the UK are but a shadow of the number of people that languish in the background. In some Northern cities & towns in England minority populations (aged 18 to 65) can have 50% unemployment in males and 70+% females

Unemployed, unemployables, "on the sick", people with heart & kidney problems (Heart lazy & Kidnae be bothered).

A village, not that far away from me, is an ex-mining village. 50 years ago there was a constant flow of walkers, bikes, motorbikes & bus from 6am until 9 ish and from 4pm to 7pm.

The houses are still there + the village school. The pub has gone.

Few people of working age seem to work. This was confirmed to me when the SkyQ box failed. The chap who came to fix the issue had been in the same class as a son, he is 49. He remarked that out of the 15 boys in the class he was only aware of 4/5 others who work - the rest were unemployed, "sick" etc - some worked the odd day for cash in hand labouring, driver's mate for deliveries etc etc

White Fish - Rerepo

Unemployment figures in the UK are but a shadow of the number of people that languish in the background. In some Northern cities & towns in England minority populations (aged 18 to 65) can have 50% unemployment in males and 70+% females

Unemployed, unemployables, "on the sick", people with heart & kidney problems (Heart lazy & Kidnae be bothered).

A village, not that far away from me, is an ex-mining village. 50 years ago there was a constant flow of walkers, bikes, motorbikes & bus from 6am until 9 ish and from 4pm to 7pm.

The houses are still there + the village school. The pub has gone.

Few people of working age seem to work. This was confirmed to me when the SkyQ box failed. The chap who came to fix the issue had been in the same class as a son, he is 49. He remarked that out of the 15 boys in the class he was only aware of 4/5 others who work - the rest were unemployed, "sick" etc - some worked the odd day for cash in hand labouring, driver's mate for deliveries etc etc

I think you're absolutely right.

Britain needs some 'tough love'. Slash benefits and anybody claiming to be 'sick' or 'disabled' needs to be given a VERY thorough vetting. Motability is an absolute racket. When we were in the UK shortly before Christmas were sat in the local Morrisson's supermarket cafe overlooking the 'disabled' parking bays. All occupied by rather newish and smart looking cars - their sprightly owners loading up the shopping. One or two walking with their 'magic money stick'.

Of course, as you say, there are now many cities warehousing large numbers of economically inactive 'minorities' - quite what we do with them is going to be a huge problem in future given their relatively higher reproductive rate.

White Fish - Andrew-T

<< Slash benefits and anybody claiming to be 'sick' or 'disabled' needs to be given a VERY thorough vetting. Motability is an absolute racket. When we were in the UK shortly before Christmas were sat in the local Morrison's supermarket cafe overlooking the 'disabled' parking bays.>>

You seem to be in favour of a strong police state (strong bureaucracy will cost money from somewhere, but I suppose it should increase employment) which sits oddly with your otherwise non-socialist attitudes ?

White Fish - alan1302

Britain needs some 'tough love'. Slash benefits and anybody claiming to be 'sick' or 'disabled' needs to be given a VERY thorough vetting. Motability is an absolute racket. When we were in the UK shortly before Christmas were sat in the local Morrisson's supermarket cafe overlooking the 'disabled' parking bays. All occupied by rather newish and smart looking cars - their sprightly owners loading up the shopping. One or two walking with their 'magic money stick'.

Where is the link between Motability and the cars parked in the disabled bays? Not all disabled people have Motability cars. And why do you think people are not vetted?

White Fish - Bromptonaut

I think you're absolutely right.

Well let's see if FB can rise to the challenge of particularising his lazy assertions

Britain needs some 'tough love'. Slash benefits and anybody claiming to be 'sick' or 'disabled' needs to be given a VERY thorough vetting. Motability is an absolute racket. When we were in the UK shortly before Christmas were sat in the local Morrisson's supermarket cafe overlooking the 'disabled' parking bays. All occupied by rather newish and smart looking cars - their sprightly owners loading up the shopping. One or two walking with their 'magic money stick'.

There are said to be places, with Northern Ireland mentioned in dispatches, where there is suspected fraud around obtaining Motability cars. That needs to clamped down on and people, including particularly car dealers who are complicit brought in front of the courts.

The scheme itself however is sound. There already is very thorough vetting of people claiming the turnkey benefits, PIP and DLA. Same with the Work Capability Assessment for long term ill-health benefits. As evidenced by the overturn rate at tribunal the vetting is all too often over applied.

Why you think there's a link between Motability and alleged abuse of disabled bays at Morrisons is beyond me. PIP and DLA (the latter is now limited to under 16s) are not means tested, I knew a Professor quite eminent in his field who got PIP for Mobility on account of a congenital disorder.

I'v no idea what a 'magic money stick' is.

Don't get me started on the rudeness and inhumanity of a handful of DWP employees insisting, for example that a man with well evidenced agoraphobia attend a Job Centre and stopping his money when he could not do so.

Of course, as you say, there are now many cities warehousing large numbers of economically inactive 'minorities' - quite what we do with them is going to be a huge problem in future given their relatively higher reproductive rate.

White Fish - Bromptonaut

Unemployment figures in the UK are but a shadow of the number of people that languish in the background. In some Northern cities & towns in England minority populations (aged 18 to 65) can have 50% unemployment in males and 70+% females

Unemployed, unemployables, "on the sick", people with heart & kidney problems (Heart lazy & Kidnae be bothered).

Do you actually have any evidence, beyond anecdata from a Sky box mender?

In particular can you identify the towns and particularise the assertion in your first paragraph?

White Fish - daveyjp

Since the end of the lockdowns friends who were dentists, doctors, rail staff, solicitors, local authority employees, teachers, supermarket employees are now all semi or fully retired. None of them are 60. All are looking far younger than a few years ago!

That may be true near you. The local supermarket here seems to have several middle-aged or even older staff ... :-)

I’m talking of supermarket HQ staff who weren’t shop floor. Senior buyers, finance managers, HR directors etc. ironically early retirees go to do shop floor work. Keeps them in work but without the stress of a senior position.
White Fish - Bromptonaut

Everywhere you look there appears to be a problem of shortage of staff to meet vacancies in UK business from the hospitality industry to airports and airlines yet we still seem to have a large percentage of the working population on benefits

The bolded bit is simply not true. Too many of the working population need Tax Credits or Universal Credit to top up low pay but the number on out of work benefits who are physically and mentally fit for work is incredibly low.

White Fish - Rerepo

Everywhere you look there appears to be a problem of shortage of staff to meet vacancies in UK business from the hospitality industry to airports and airlines yet we still seem to have a large percentage of the working population on benefits

The bolded bit is simply not true. Too many of the working population need Tax Credits or Universal Credit to top up low pay but the number on out of work benefits who are physically and mentally fit for work is incredibly low.

I don't believe for a second that the last sentence (above) is true.

White Fish - Andrew-T

<< I don't believe for a second that the last sentence (above) is true. >>

I have a suspicion that Bromp may have closer access to 'facts' than someone who seems to spend most of the year a long way from the UK, and may be better equipped with 'beliefs' than 'facts' ?

White Fish - sammy1

So what has changed since Covid Vast numbers of employees were furloughed at great expense to stay in their jobs. Are there suddenly more job vacancies than before covid or have people decided there was an opportunity to change their job. Covid resulted in most Europeans doing casual and more mundane work going home and not returning.. The farming industry has managed to cope well enough with their problems so what is happening to the hospitality and airline industry.. Airlines are in utter chaos at the moment so where have all the jobs gone and why can they not fill the shortage. If has someone has said the lower paid in employment get tax credits and universal credit why is this not an incentive to work or have too many got used to sitting at home during the covid or found jobs that allow them to work from home.

I cannot see how working from home is efficient as being at work. Every day while walking the dog people I know that are working are out walking the dog or running errands so presumably they make the time up later!!!

White Fish - alan1302

So what has changed since Covid Vast numbers of employees were furloughed at great expense to stay in their jobs. Are there suddenly more job vacancies than before covid or have people decided there was an opportunity to change their job. Covid resulted in most Europeans doing casual and more mundane work going home and not returning.. The farming industry has managed to cope well enough with their problems so what is happening to the hospitality and airline industry.. Airlines are in utter chaos at the moment so where have all the jobs gone and why can they not fill the shortage. If has someone has said the lower paid in employment get tax credits and universal credit why is this not an incentive to work or have too many got used to sitting at home during the covid or found jobs that allow them to work from home.

I cannot see how working from home is efficient as being at work. Every day while walking the dog people I know that are working are out walking the dog or running errands so presumably they make the time up later!!!

Some of the vancies that are available are what would have been taken up by a lot of people from EU countries that are no longer coming to work in the UK after Brexit.

There will be a good chunk of people on Universal Credit when unemplyed that most companies won't emply - says someone with a criminal record - how would you get people like that back into work?

If you spend say an hour a day commuting - that time can be used for walking the dog and doing errands...efficiency from working from home will depend a lot on the job and the person.

White Fish - Bromptonaut

There will be a good chunk of people on Universal Credit when unemplyed that most companies won't emply - says someone with a criminal record - how would you get people like that back into work?

There's a whole cohort on old fashioned Income Related Job Seekers who really should be on a health related benefit but have not been able to manage the transition. They're (mostly mentally) unsuited to any form of employment. There's also a lacuna that means those who get PIP are better off on Jobseekers than the ill health benefit Employment Support Allowance.

White Fish - Bromptonaut

So what has changed since Covid Vast numbers of employees were furloughed at great expense to stay in their jobs. Are there suddenly more job vacancies than before covid or have people decided there was an opportunity to change their job. Covid resulted in most Europeans doing casual and more mundane work going home and not returning.. The farming industry has managed to cope well enough with their problems so what is happening to the hospitality and airline industry.. Airlines are in utter chaos at the moment so where have all the jobs gone and why can they not fill the shortage. If has someone has said the lower paid in employment get tax credits and universal credit why is this not an incentive to work or have too many got used to sitting at home during the covid or found jobs that allow them to work from home.

There's no single answer but rather several intersecting streams.

It's certainly true that a lot of Europeans went home for various combinations of Covid and Brexit. A lot have decided not to come back. If they've not got Settled Status from being here 5 years then they'll struggle to claim Universal Credit if they come back as Job Seekers.

I'm not sure the farmers all accept they've managed to cope. There are plenty complaining they cannot get labour to pick crops or tend beasts. Pigs were stacked up on farms at one point to the extent that they needed to be culled. Only have to be a few extra weeks in age and they're not what the supermarkets want. Slaughter men and butchers were the issue there.

So far as aviation and hospitality are concerned some employers forsook the furlough scheme and made mass redundancies. If you're now stable in other employment then 12hour shifts at regional airport security checks with a 3am start may not be attractive. New recruits employed 'airside' require enhanced security checking.The provisioning of the checks themselves is a pinch point. If airline industry forums are any sort of source then subcontractors doing the legwork around recruitment have the efficacy of a chocolate teaspoon.

Since the government increased the Work allowances (ie money benefit claimants can keep without it being affected by earnings) and reduced the rate benefit is tapered where there are earnings a lot more people qualify for UC. Others are better of on it than on Tax Credits. But unless they have the curiosity to seek and the IT skills to use an on line checking tool they may not know. A bit of government publicity aimed at those who work and pay rent (the main winners) would help.

I cannot see how working from home is efficient as being at work. Every day while walking the dog people I know that are working are out walking the dog or running errands so presumably they make the time up later!!!

Are these people in jobs where time is a measure of efficiency or one their managers need to check? If real metrics like output and quality are what counts then a break to walk the dog is not going to matter.

White Fish - sammy1

""Are these people in jobs where time is a measure of efficiency or one their managers need to check? If real metrics like output and quality are what counts then a break to walk the dog is not going to matter"""

This may be all well and good in some disciplines but for hundreds of thousands in more run of the mill jobs such as now many outsourced working from home call centres, DVLA and many others not answering phones or just not putting in the hours. Yes some of the more conscientious will put in the hours but human nature being what it is the reality is that it is a platform for shirkers and inefficiency. A recent survey of telephone response times of companies as come up with dreadful results of customers waiting on phones for not minutes but hours and the Gov offices come out as some of the worse. Quite how UK claims to be in a growth mode and not in recession is difficult to understand because nearly everywhere you care to look is not functioning as one could reasonable expect.

White Fish - Crickleymal

My youngest son , who has autism, has been trying to get a job for 5 years. He's bright, hard working etc, yet no-one will employ him for no readily apparent reason.

Loads of jobs are understaffed due to brexit but also why should people be employed at the minimum wage and on zero hours contracts in s*** jobs? Care home workers are a good example. It's a terrible job if you get emotionally attached to people and you're paid s*** wages

White Fish - _

Indeed. Dr youngrovergirl has reduced her hours.

Instead of working 60 hours a week and being paid 48 she now does 40 paid but still in effect about 48. I know of one HCA who has gone to work in a supermarket.. same pay. Less stressful and free parking