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Fuel Efficient Family Hatch Recommendation - Gabe

Hi guys

Looking for car recommendations (petrol or hybrid). I want to buy a family hatch. Priorities are MPG, reliability, nice looking and something that's at least a bit fun to drive My budget is up to 20k give or take. Any thoughts?

Fuel Efficient Family Hatch Recommendation - badbusdriver

Toyota Corolla hybrid with the 2.0 (184PS) rather than the 1.8 (122PS) engine.

Not a huge choice on Autotrader for £20k but they are out there. Beauty is of course in the eye of the before, but I think it is a good looking car. Estate version available too, and it (IMO) is also a good looking car.

Fuel Efficient Family Hatch Recommendation - Metropolis.
I would second the Corolla. Reliability wise it cannot be beaten in my view, unless by another Toyota.
On a different note, are we really all dealing in PferdStarke‘s now? Not specifically you BBD but is it becoming the norm generally?
Fuel Efficient Family Hatch Recommendation - Xileno

No I'm old school and like hp. But ps to hp is virtually the same conversion.

Fuel Efficient Family Hatch Recommendation - Engineer Andy

In addition to the Corolla, I'd add:

a) Mazda3 (gen-4) 2.0 Skyactiv-X (180PS) SE-L or SE-L Lux shod on 16in rims (better ride than on 18in without much penalty in grip/handling). Decent real-world mpg likely around the high 40s unless thrashed.

Both the hatch and saloon (Fastback) are real lookers, inside and out. The hatch has a much smaller boot (about 360L vs 450L) but is far more accessible due to the small opening (aperture) of the Fastback. Far more hatch versions around (especially Sport spec and above) than Fastbacks. I think the SE-L specs are the best value as they have most of what people need, including climate control.

The CX-30 (Crossover version of the Mazda3, still handles well) would suit you nicely except that as it's only been out since 2019 and the starting price is higher than the Mazda3, it's likely you might not find one in your price range except, perhaps the lower powered Skyactiv-G (120PS) version. Decent boot size at 430L and hatchback opening.

b) SEAT Leon (2016-2020 version) either the last of the 1.4TSI (150PS version best, 125PS version fine) or the (should be now fixed on the design fault) 1.5TSI replacement (150PS or 130PS alternatives as before).

The FR spec (all independent suspension, lower spec only on front) is the best in my view but later cars are only shod on 18in rims rather than 17in which firms up the ride perhaps a bit too much. Higher interior spec than an equivalent Golf 1.4TSI GT (which only has manual A/C rather than climate control).

If you consider it, you HAVE to go for an extended test drive, including on roads with no-so-good surfaces to see whether you can tollerate the firmer ride.

The lower specced SE / SE technology (which probably comes shod on 16in rims and decent profile tyres, but only has manual A/C) is probably better on ride quality, and the 1.2 / 1.0 (1.2's replacement) TSI is actually quite nippy at just under 10sec for the 0-60 time.

Very good real-world mpg, especially the 1.4TSI (both versions, but the 150 is best) which gets mid-high 40s average and still performs well as appears to the most well regarded of the bunch, followed by the 1.0 TSI.

I prefer the 3dr 'SC' version of the Leon for styling, but you may find it doesn't have quite the space you need - I think that it sacrifices some rear legroom (though not apparently boot space, which is ~20L better than the Mazda hatch) over the 5dr hatch. The 'ST' estate is nice (good boot space) but has a more limited spec line-up with more upper spec and/or diesels - less petrols to choose from

With both cars, do your homework on dealerships as they can be quite hit and miss on the post-sales experience, some good, some bad (rather like Ford in my view). The Toyota dealership experience is likely to be far better. My Mazda's dealer is generally fine, other owners have bad experiences with theirs.

Reliability-wise, the Toyota will be best, but the other two are generally fine, especially as you're avoiding second-hand diesels (particularly Mazda diesels).

You may find that there's no much stock around in your price range for the Toyota and Mazda because they both only appeared in 2019.

One final thing to make sure of is that whatever you get, it comes with a spare wheel / tyre. Many now don't as standard and many people forget to buy one. They should all take a space saver variety, though upper specced cars may use that underfloor area for the ICE.

Mazda (last time I checked) charge a whopping £400 for one, not sure what the others do, but it probably somewhat cheaper. With a bit of homework and luck you may be able to source a quality equivalent via online sources.

Some, like the Mazda, need the boot floor to go up a bit to accommodate the space saver, which reduces the available boot space.

Worth doing extended test drives on whatever you look at and on a varety of different types / speeds of roads to test out performance, handling and ride comfort. Make sure you take your time to adjust both the driver's seat and steering wheel position to the best you can to ensure you get the most representative test.

It may not be 'entertaining' (handling-wise) to drive, the equivalent Skoda Octavia (2013-20) might be worth a look as it is based on the same floorpan as the Leon and Golf - it's just that it is a bigger (longer) car. The TSI engines appear to still pull well (by all accounts, including from fellow Backroomers), especially the 1.4 TSI 150PS version, and it does have the benefit of a huge (590L) boot.

If you want an auto, I'd avoid the VAG cars with their DSG dual cluch gearboxes as it's nigh on impossible to find out the driving pattern of a previous owner, as they are suited to driving at reasonable speeds and not (reliability wise) stop-start driving in heavy traffic.

The autos from Mazda (TC) and Toyota (CVT) are fine reliability wise, the Mazda smoother but saps some power (still fine with the higher output SA-X engine); the Toyota gets a little whiny but really only when pushed hard. The newer-designed 2.0 engine has a 'proper' 1st gear, and thus that effect is lessened as it only (automatically) switches to the CVT part after you get up to about 10-15 mph or so.

Manual gearbox on the Corolla only available on the non-hybrid 1.2T, which has ok performance, about the equivalent to the Mazda3 in Skyactiv-G (120PS) form. Autos on the Mazda harder to come by. I like them though, having test drove one in the previous version (gen-3) of the car in 2017, and if I replace my 16yo Mazda3, I will go for an auto this time.

Fuel Efficient Family Hatch Recommendation - badbusdriver

On a different note, are we really all dealing in PferdStarke‘s now? Not specifically you BBD but is it becoming the norm generally?

TBH, I usually use BHP. Not sure why I used PS in this case, possibly just going straight from the stats without thinking.

No I'm old school and like hp. But ps to hp is virtually the same conversion.

As you say, very little difference between PS and BHP. The one that sticks in my mind for some reason was the first Bugatti Veyron. It was stated as having 1001PS, which became 987BHP.

But going back to the Corolla, being accurate (to one decimal point), 184PS becomes 181.5BHP

Manual gearbox on the Corolla only available on the non-hybrid 1.2T

Despite what the Corolla spec page on this website implies, there is only the two hybrids available in the UK. The 1.2T has never been offered here on the current Corolla.

Edit

Sorry, my mistake, yes there was a 1.2T. But you can't 'build' a 1.2T on Toyota's website (so not available new), and there are only 20 nationwide on Autotrader, so apparently hardly anyone bought one!.

Edited by badbusdriver on 20/05/2022 at 16:00

Fuel Efficient Family Hatch Recommendation - Engineer Andy
Manual gearbox on the Corolla only available on the non-hybrid 1.2T

Despite what the Corolla spec page on this website implies, there is only the two hybrids available in the UK. The 1.2T has never been offered here on the current Corolla.

Edit

Sorry, my mistake, yes there was a 1.2T. But you can't 'build' a 1.2T on Toyota's website (so not available new), and there are only 20 nationwide on Autotrader, so apparently hardly anyone bought one!.

I suspect it was included because many older drivers cannot or don't want to learn how to use an automatic (e.g. my dad), and all Toyota hybrid-engined cars are autos, as far as I can tell.

It may be that they did sell more, just that owners don't want to part with them.

Fuel Efficient Family Hatch Recommendation - Gabe

Any reason I should consider the Corolla 1.8 over the Yaris 1.5?

Fuel Efficient Family Hatch Recommendation - Engineer Andy

Any reason I should consider the Corolla 1.8 over the Yaris 1.5?

Space requirements really. Good idea to always take your 'family day out' or, better still, 'holiday' things with you to check the boot size is adequate.

Obviouslly suitcases don't need to be full (though bear that in mind when checking), but worth seeing if what you take (including kids' buggies or other similar bits on such trips all fits in the boot.

Putting the back seat(s) down is an option for single people (like me) and couples, but not if you've got kids or other passengers to go in the back.

Fuel Efficient Family Hatch Recommendation - Gabe

Wow - thanks so much for your detailed answer! Will look into it. I definitely want to go for an automatic so you gave me a lot to go on there.

Fuel Efficient Family Hatch Recommendation - Oli rag

Blimey Andy, that was so comprehensive, you’ve obviously got a bit of time to spare!

Fuel Efficient Family Hatch Recommendation - SLO76

Blimey Andy, that was so comprehensive, you’ve obviously got a bit of time to spare!

I feel redundant.
Fuel Efficient Family Hatch Recommendation - Engineer Andy

Blimey Andy, that was so comprehensive, you’ve obviously got a bit of time to spare!

I feel redundant.

Don't - I've just been a bit light on other things to do these last couple of days...

Fuel Efficient Family Hatch Recommendation - badbusdriver

Any reason I should consider the Corolla 1.8 over the Yaris 1.5?

You did say you wanted something "at least a bit fun to drive". The Corolla 1.8 is not a car aimed at drivers looking for fun, unless fun means driving smoothly without stretching the engine too far and maximising the time spent being powered by the electric motor. Its performance is fairly modest and by most accounts, wringing its neck is no fun at all. That is why I suggested the 2.0, which has much more muscle, chopping 3 seconds from the 0-62 time.

The Yaris has slightly less power than the 1.8 Corolla, but is of course a smaller and lighter car. This results hitting 62mph in just under 10 seconds, a second ahead of the 1.8 Corolla. Between the two, assuming it had enough space for my needs, the Yaris would be my choice all day long.

Fuel Efficient Family Hatch Recommendation - sammy1

My choice would be the 1.5 Skoda Octavia manual or DSG auto. The Octavia in various forms has been around for yonks and drives well with good economy and plenty of space for a family

Fuel Efficient Family Hatch Recommendation - Engineer Andy

My choice would be the 1.5 Skoda Octavia manual or DSG auto. The Octavia in various forms has been around for yonks and drives well with good economy and plenty of space for a family

I wouldn't recommend buying a secondhand car with a dual clutch 'auto' box, because you cannot guarantee the driving pattern of previous owners, which (e.g. urban driving in stop-start traffic, which will wear the clutch pack, and more so on the dry clutch versions) would be a significant reliability worry, especially if the prospective owner were to use it for similar urban driving in heavy traffic on a regular basis.