|
There was an article here in Sweden the other week, as many travel north at half term for the last of the ski season. There were problems with queueing as they are parking bays as opposed to ‘drive through’, the same problems for those with trailers, some wanted to take the extra time required to charge to 100% as they had a long trip home, and then some plugin users wanted to charge their cars for local use.
|
|
https://youtu.be/t0KODBGQVCM
This is a test showing the range, charging speed and ease of use of a bunch of ev’s, including audi Etron, Hyundai Kona, Kia e niro, Tesla model 3 and vw id4.
This guy Richard often does longer journey’s than this in full ev’s and doesn’t struggle much with the charging side of things.
I have absolutely no connection with this channel or person, but they make for a very interesting watch.
Edited by Oli rag on 07/04/2022 at 09:28
|
|
For several years some folk have been arguing that EV will not work due to charging constraints - time taken, availability of charging points, range anxiety etc etc. It was/is almost inevitable that at points in the "journey" to EV there would be hiccups.
There are two opposite views which have evolved:
- this is proof EV will never work, not enough generating capacity, I will never buy one, the common man can't afford them .........
- these are just temporary impediments to EV transition which will be overcome
I strongly identify with the latter. Current legislation make adherence to the former a potentially Canute type endeavour - trying to hold back an advancing tide!
|
There are two opposite views which have evolved:
- this is proof EV will never work, not enough generating capacity, I will never buy one, the common man can't afford them .........
- these are just temporary impediments to EV transition which will be overcome
I agree, but I tend to think of them more as 'glass half full' or 'glass half empty' attitudes towards EV's. Some people are inherently opposed to them, and so will look for any 'evidence' to support their stance.
The example at the top of the page is a prime example. One 240 mile family trip to Cheshire is enough to write off electric cars (for anything other than shortish trips) and the entire UK charging infrastructure en masse?, really?.
This is the opinion of a certain Paul Scott - makes for interesting reading.
Sorry Trilogy, but this does not make interesting reading at all. It isn't informative, it is just a typical example of the 'glass half empty' attitude. If (a certain) Paul Scott (not a clue who this is, should I have heard of him?) had done this trip 5 or more times, using different charging stations at different stages of the journey and had still come to the same conclusion, there may be some merit in his words. As it is, there is none whatsoever.
Similar sort of article in the DM by Iain Dale a well know journalist and TV personality on Tuesday. He has a Audi E-tron It took him 11hours to do a 4 hour drive messing about charging, waiting to charge, and poor availability of fast chargers. He also complained about the unrealistic mileages that manufacturers give for their battery cars. You can knock a third off before you start thinking about using the cars accessories. It is worth a read on line.
As to the notion that the real range of all electric cars is a third less than what they will actually do, this is also not true unless you drive aggressively (or perhaps in winter). Watching a What Car video running ten different EV's till the battery went flat, the Porsche Taycan managed 3% less than its officially quoted range. The worst, and the only one who's real range was anywhere near a third less than quoted, was the Fiat 500e managing 140 miles, 29% less than the official 198 miles. The Mazda MX-30, with the smallest quoted range of 124 miles, actually managed 115 miles, only 7% less. The Skoda Enyaq did 18.5% less than quoted, the Renault Zoe was 12.5% short on quoted, VW ID.3 managed 14% less than quoted, Kia E-Niro managed 8% less than quoted, Audi Q4 E Tron was 13% short, Tesla Model 3 managed the greatest difference (284 miles) but was 21% short on the official range.
|
|
Well yes all the examples quoted on range are all below manufacturers stated miles and in my opinion pushing the trades description act a bit far. These may have been in more ideal driving conditions than some will encounter in this country. The difficulty for some comes when the range gets lower and lower and you have difficulty finding a charge that suits the car or your time scale. The Audi E.tron is a very expensive car and for the money I would expect it to do the range advertised or be very close. I don't think that the owner had any axe to grind other than a factual experience of trying to do his job and getting home again.
My view is that the charging system seems to be the usual shambles that we Brits seem to put up with and nothing radically wrong with the cars. As others have said EV seems fine for city and short daps away from home but long distance at your peril unless you have all the time in the world
|
|
|
|
When was the What Car test done? To be representative of real world conditions, the tests need to be across teh weather/temperature range, both in hot, sunny conditions where the A/C is on full chaff, or (say) in dark very cold and wet conditions in winter where the heater, lights, wipers, etc are on, as well as when its an intermediate temperature requiring either little heating or cooling and no lights.
In addition, longer distance journeys often happen when people are staying overnight elsewhere or going with others and/or on holiday, which means significantly extra weight in the car.
I still believe that for the foreseable future, EVs will only be for:
a) those who can afford the vastly more expensive prices of new EVs (noting that second hand ones are still expensive up until their 'battery warranty' runs out then potential owners have the proverbial 'sword of Damacles' over them range-wise);
b) those who have a two car household;
c) those who have the space, ability and/or funds (including now the higher cost of charging) to install a reasonably rapidy home charger - something many people do not (myself included);
d) those whose workplace or safe/secure nearby area has numerous, decent, reliable/secure rapid charging facilities. My last workplace had none and the nearest public charging facility was in a supermarket over a mile away, wher you can only park for 90 minutes.
e) those who can afford to replace the EV battery (assuming you can when it's old - many techy items cannot be 'fixed' (including consumables) because replacement components don't exist after 10-15 years, or at least they ain't plentiful / cheap. The problem is that many installations are bespoke for the car in question. It wouldn't be so bad if the tech was generic. People who sepnd (today) under £3k on a car won't be able to afford £7k - £10k on a new battery pack.
Whilst things will inevitably improve, certain issues like people living in certain types of home (several tens of millions) and who either don't have any / sufficient workplace parking or employers/landlords willing / able to provide charging points mean many will likely either not have access to convenient / secure charging for decades, yet they will be, thought taxes (including on ICE fuels), levies, etc contributing to subsidising other people who can already afford all the tech to provide even more 'public' charging facilities.
I personally don't think that's fair.
The problem is that all the extra taxes, etc are already being levied on people who are least able to switch (likely for at least the next 30-50 years) when the tech supposedly 'replacing' the fossil-fuel tech is still a significant way away from being 'for the masses' and mature.
Exactly the same applies to home heating / hot water production / cooking and electricity generation. It's pointless (especially in the current climate) forcing people to switch when the 'alternative costs about 2-4x the cost over the lifetime of its onwership for most people.
|
|
|
Sorry Trilogy, but this does not make interesting reading at all.
LOL! More fool you for reading. Not all your posts will be interesting for everyone, yet I don't see others criticising you. Unless you're replying to me, I no longer read your comments. Your near constant dissection and criticism of other people's post has become quite tiresome. I doubt I'm the only one of this opinion.
I'm done here. :-)
|
|
|
|
Two opposite views have evolved:
- this is proof EV will never work, not enough generating capacity, I will never buy one, the common man can't afford them .........
- these are just temporary impediments to EV transition which will be overcome
Current legislation make adherence to the former a potentially Canute type endeavour - trying to hold back an advancing tide!
Although history shows that most inventions usually become 'the norm' as time passes, let us not forget Concorde, which was a brilliant piece of engineering but ultimately became just a step too far to be sustainable.
Perhaps HS2 ... ? :-)
|
LOL! More fool you for reading. Not all your posts will be interesting for everyone, yet I don't see others criticising you. Unless you're replying to me, I no longer read your comments. Your near constant dissection and criticism of other people's post has become quite tiresome. I doubt I'm the only one of this opinion.
I'm done here. :-)
If my comment came across as a personal dig at you Trilogy, I apologise, that wasn't my intention.
But Paul Scott's account of one long trip in a Porsche Taycan and using one charger really can't in any seriousness be taken as the reality of life with an EV, and the UK charging infrastructure. As I said, if his opinion was the result of several trips using various chargers, fair enough. Or if it was the result of using that car over the course of several months, again, fair enough.
For your (and his) information, using a rapid (43+kW) charger (of which there seems to be quite a few in the Cheshire area according to Zap-Map), a Taycan can go from 10-80% charge in around 35 minutes. There is no mention of where he is going to Cheshire from, but given it is from 240 miles away, I don't believe for a minute that his only option was to spend 4 hours at one fast (7-22kW) charger.
|
I dont think it is quite accurate or fair to label BBDs reply (or replies generally) as criticism. Maybe a bit undiplomatic but ultimately we are all here to assist, discuss and give our opinions. I personally enjoy the depth of analysis typically given. I also enjoy your contributions Trilogy and actually agree with a lot of your comments, including your original post at the start of this topic. Electric car infrastructure is just not ready.
I used to be a bit more combative on this site, and then Avant very sadly died and it reminded me that we are all humans on here. This unique community of strangers is an enjoyable escape really. I say strangers, but to be honest I increasingly feel as though I know people here, despite not being much of a regular myself.
|
|
There are 27m dwellings in the UK. Just over half are detached, semi or bungalows and likely to have charging capability. Those that cannot (for some reason) may be balanced by flats and terraces where some charging in dedicated parking areas is possible.
All the large hotel chains and many smaller are installing charging points. Premier Inn which we use occasionally are planning ~1000 over the next three years.
At these is fast charging is unecessary - a 7KW domestic charger will comfortably recharge most EVs overnight.
This does not solve all the problems - but does illustrate that many perceived "barriers" are largely illusory. But would I buy an EV now - no.
We are a two car household with the ability to charge on the drive. Spending £20k+ on a small EV as a second car for local use and 2-3000 miles pa makes no sense.
The main car does longer trips several times a year. I have some concerns over charging availability, although a 30 minute fast charge stop would not be an issue. As this car is less than 4 years old, replacement can wait a couple of years.
|
|
|
|
|
<< For your information, using a rapid (43+kW) charger (of which there seem to be quite a few in the Cheshire area according to Zap-Map), a Taycan can go from 10-80% charge in around 35 minutes. There is no mention of where he is going to Cheshire from, ... >>
As an inhabitant of Cheshire, and one with no intention of going EV until these problems diminish, I am wondering where these charging stations are. Habitually I try to avoid making detours to buy fuel, preferring to get it when I find (or know of) a suitable station en-route. How many extra miles (and minutes) might searching for a free charging point add to a journey, compared to 'conventional' motoring ?
|
How many extra miles (and minutes) might searching for a free charging point add to a journey, compared to 'conventional' motoring ?
People with have to get used to not trying to get them free - they certainly won't be long term
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
