It’s not an engine that’s in current production anymore so I don’t imagine they would be able to produce one unless there’s one sitting somewhere. Parts for it yes but a whole new factory fresh engine probably not.
Rather like getting a 10-year-old washing machine repaired then ? "sorry ma'am, there's a waiting list for used clutches" ....
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It’s not an engine that’s in current production anymore so I don’t imagine they would be able to produce one unless there’s one sitting somewhere. Parts for it yes but a whole new factory fresh engine probably not.
Rather like getting a 10-year-old washing machine repaired then ? "sorry ma'am, there's a waiting list for used clutches" ....
Was there not an industry agreement to supply spare parts for 10 years for cars?
There was certainly a requirement to ensure spare were available for military vehicles for 15 years and, I think, for marine engines when I dealt with spares orders for turbochargers.
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Many thanks for your replies.
We are waiting for a new engine as the car is covered by a Ford Protect Gold warranty, and the assessor and their engineer have given the go ahead for a whole new engine.
So there is not much we can do. If we can offload the car it will cost thousands, and why should we when we have invested in a warranty? Although Ford cannot supply an engine for the car, they have not offered an alternative solution. I have heard from other parts departments in various main Ford dealerships, that there are a lot of engines on back order where either the engine is simply not available, or there is a four month minimum wait.
If you are thinking of buying a Ford, this problem with parts should feature in your decision making.
Edited by Speedbird 747 on 28/02/2022 at 10:44
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If it’s got a power shift auto box, you might want to put one on order now as they are also on back order.
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Not sure of the value of a copper-bottomed warranty if the necessary part(s) are terminally unavailable ? Perhaps a different but compatible engine ?
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What does the warranty say if parts are not available or the car is not repairable?
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What does the warranty say if parts are not available or the car is not repairable?
Depending on claims limit it could in theory write the car off for its full insurance value. Depends on the terms. I’m surprised they’re not offering to rebuild the engine but then I wouldn’t want a rebuilt motor myself, they’re rarely 100%.
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It was hard enough getting the dealership to find the fault with the engine, let alone repair it. It was over a month before they reported the defect to Ford Warranty Direct.
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If I've found the correct policy wording online then your warranty is provided by a TP insurer - QBE. You don't have to use a Ford main dealer for repair as long as you obtain approval from QBE. I'd be looking for a quality engine remanufacturer, obtain a quote, and approach QBE with the facts. Ford can't supply a brand new unit, will they approve XYZ instead.
The claims limit is the value of the car and I see car hire is covered. Up to 7 days! Chocolate teapots come to mind.
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These are one of the current breed of chocolate engines . It’s probably going to need a new crankcase / block , and that’s £3k without any pistons . Can’t see anyone repairing one of these in a hurry .
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The latest is that the claim limit under the Ford Protect Gold policy, is the purchase price of the car.
I have told Ford Protect that as the car cannot be repaired and is in fact effectively written off, I want to claim the full purchase price back. Speaking to Ford Customer Service this afternoon I have given them a deadline that if they cannot find an engine this week (so that will be a month in total looking for one), then the assumption is you haven’t got an engine, and therefore the car is beyond economic repair and is written off.
The problem is no one wants to make a decision. It is just remarkable that they think they can fob you off, and just leave you in limbo like this without a car for months. They really don’t care about the inconvenience and stress they are causing.
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Cant say I am enamoured if this is the Gold policy and it doesnt cover a loan car. Not my experience with BMW/Mini - always had a loaner.
Very difficult position to be in, ping-ponged around. Someone HAS to make a decision which for Ford and/or dealer will be expensive. Your options could be for Ford/dealer source a replacement vehicle to exact spec (subject to your inspection and approval, if you wanted another Ford) or agree a write off value with the addition of an ex-gratia payment for the inconvenience, extra costs and stress?
Assuming car is at a dealers, surely their insurance covers it on site and you could cancel, and then you could SORN the car, This could drag on if folks are talking 4 months.
Good luck.
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Ford customer service ‘phoned today. They have another part number for an engine. I contacted the parts department of the dealer. The guy inputted the code. Might be an engine available, but Ford Tech have to be contacted to check the engine is a correct match.
No offer of compensation, and if this new part number doesn’t find an engine, we are back at square one and will have to take the legal route.
The dealership don’t want responsibility for the car, and instead blame Ford for the issue. Ford Warranty Protect have discharged their part of the bargain by offering to fund the repair. Nothing they can do if there is no engine in stock.
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The only engine remanufacturing company I would trust to do a job like that is Ivor Searle.
www.ivorsearle.co.uk/Products-Services/Engines
I had work done by them years ago, stuff we couldn't do, camshaft bearing line boring on a big six. Excellent company.
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An engine has been delivered to the dealership last Saturday. Only found out yesterday.
Hopefully the car should be ready by the end of next week.
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That's good news. Please update us with how the fitting goes.
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That's good news. Please update us with how the fitting goes.
While it is in I have asked the garage to change the Powershift oil and filter, MOT it, change the brake fluid, and stamp the service book.
Is there anything else that should be done whilst the car is in pieces on the ramp?
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I would get them to check the condition of the a/c condenser. If it hasn’t had one already, it’s likely to need one soon .
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Many thanks for that.
I have emailed the garage to check the condenser
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Well. You are not going to believe this.
The car is on the ramp, the old engine is out. The technician opens the box containing an engine, and Ford have sent a diesel engine!
How on earth can this happen?
We don’t know what to do. It is so disappointing.
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Yes , you’re going to need the Acme Fitsall adapter brackets to make it all fit . Ford dealers keep them in stock!!
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The car is on the ramp, the old engine is out. The technician opens the box containing an engine, and Ford have sent a diesel engine!
You really don't surprise me. The local indy who looked after my cars until he retired a few years ago used to say he was always having to deal with wrong parts being sent. A wrong engine must be rather unusual though. Maybe correct ones just aren't available, like they said .... :-)
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Probably tapped in the wrong part number by one digit and here it comes. Seriously the parts for cars are a minefield. Would you believe that there are six different petrol injectors for a 2.0 Octavia. My son was driving around with a hiccupping car for 2 months before the Skoda dealer realised they had fitted the wrong one and six visits later
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I’ve got a 2020 Kuga PHEV (a company car) and had to wait six months longer for delivery, as there was a problem with the HV batteries in these and Ford had to replace them all. A Facebook group was set up and a very helpful chap from Ford really bought into providing updates via the forum and taking on responsibility for cases where comms from the dealer to the end customer were not up to scratch.
I’d recommend seeking out Jay Ward on social media and see if he can get involved in the case. Can’t recall his exact job title, but he’s high up in Ford in Europe.
Edit - he’s director of Ford of Europe Product Comms.
Edited by DavidGlos on 16/03/2022 at 06:46
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Many thanks for the suggestion.
I did write to Anthony Ireson, Ford’s director of passenger vehicles on the 14th February 2022, but I didn’t get a reply.
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Just spoken to the parts department at Birchwood Ford, and another engine is coming in tomorrow.
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I was kinda surprised they found an engine. These units have been out of production for years now. It’s fix the original motor or source a used one to get this car back in the road I’m afraid. If either are done, don’t tell any prospective buyer when you sell it on, it’ll only deter them.
Edited by SLO76 on 16/03/2022 at 12:34
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Morning guys.
Birchwood Ford have just ‘phoned me at 0805 to say that Ford have sent another diesel engine.
I have run out of patience. I am off to the dealership now to see the dealer principle.
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Morning guys.
Birchwood Ford have just ‘phoned me at 0805 to say that Ford have sent another diesel engine.
I have run out of patience. I am off to the dealership now to see the dealer principle.
Unbelievable!!
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<< Unbelievable!! >>
Perhaps not. I am a bit of a fatalist in situations like the one described. I would say rather to be expected - it may even be the same engine :-(. Sod's Law is still with us and reliable.
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There is nothing that Birchwood Ford are prepared to do. My son and I were in the office with Birchwood’s regional manager, the parts manager and the sales manager.
Things got quite heated, but there was no offer except just what they consider the trade in value if we took that route. But obviously we will have to spend a lot more money to buy ourselves out of this problem, and we do not think that is fair as Ford Warranty Protect have authorised the claim. So we are the ones inconvenienced, rather than the garage taking responsibility and getting us back on the road.
The local newspaper is now involved, the Eastbourne Herald, and I will be giving an interview in half an hour. We will then go back to the dealership to take some pictures apparently according to the reporter.
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Think I'd be meeting a solicitor rather than the local hack.
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Birchwood Ford are hoping another engine will turn up tomorrow....but they don’t know for sure.
It is now almost four months since the car broke down. In normal circumstances even one month would seem quite enough time to diagnose the problem and fit a new engine. How on earth can this run to four months!
This Kuga only has 32,000 miles on the clock. It has had five services in that time. An engine should not fail so soon. But a friend of mine in the trade says these Ecoboost engines are know as “Ecoboom” engines, especially the 1.0 three cylinder units.
We’ll see what happens tomorrow.
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I agree with Chris, no more Mr nice guy, get a solicitor involved.
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“ But a friend of mine in the trade says these Ecoboost engines are know as “Ecoboom” engines, especially the 1.0 three cylinder units.”
Your friend is referring to the 1.0 Ecoboost motors, these have an awful reputation for failures and are referred to as Ecoboom in the trade but the 1.6 4cyl unit in your car is based on the very well regarded Yamaha designed Zetec SE motor that’s given great service since the mid 90’s in countless different Fords, it has a great reputation in the trade and is regarded as largely bulletproof. Have they actually diagnosed what failed here? Is this the illogical and wasteful modern main dealer notion of throw away rather than repair?
Edited by SLO76 on 18/03/2022 at 05:48
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To all intents and purposes this Kuga is now written off if Ford cannot supply an engine for it.
We are contacting our insurance company with regard to making a claim. The legal route will take too long and we are against Ford UK.
We are also watching to see if the dealership take the car off the ramp. That will indicate they do not expect to get an engine anytime soon.
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You’ll be wasting your time contacting your insurance company, it has nothing to do with them I’m afraid. This is between you, the dealer and the warranty firm. What does it say in the terms regarding claims limit? If it’s the value of the car then the warranty firm should fully reimburse you and get on to the dealer who sold both the car and the warranty as they should be helping. Find out what the offer to give you trade in value is from the dealer and negotiate using the car validation guides plus WBAC to give you a realistic value.
Edited by SLO76 on 18/03/2022 at 10:00
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I can see several S/H engines on e-bay, which may be suitable; one says only done 25k. This is an 8 year old car - no need for a new engine. Source a second hand one and get it fitted and move on. If you don't like / trust the car after that, punt it, cars, esp ULEX compliant ones in the right area area, in demand at the moment.
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"The legal route will take too long and we are against Ford UK."
But do you actually know what your legal position is?
A chat with a solicitor will give you possible options. They may well advise you not to bother as it's 50/50 and will take years, or they may tell you that it's clearly a breach of Section A of law B and a solicitor's letter stating so will bring them to the table. At the moment all you are (as far as the dealer is concerned) is a moaning customer.
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This is an 8 year old car - no need for a new engine. Source a second hand one and get it fitted and move on.
IMHO for a car of this age that is the obvious way forward. The garage who cannot supply a new engine should know enough to find a used one on your behalf, if that is the only available way to fulfil their obligations.
Back in the 1990s my daughter was stranded near Carlisle when her 205 cambelt failed. The nearby rescue garage - not far from the M6, so familiar with that kind of situation - found and fitted a recon engine, for £550 all-in IIRC.
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No way would I be putting a s/h engine in one of these . You will be buying into the same trouble all over again . These engines are fragile at the best of times . Makes the Rover k series engine look positively tame .
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We have SLO saying it's a well respected engine, but e&acd calling it fragile. Both have a good reputation here, can we get it clarified please?
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Let’s put it this way , the Ford/ Yamaha 1.6 Zetec engine stopped production in 2005.
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Let’s put it this way , the Ford/ Yamaha 1.6 Zetec engine stopped production in 2005.
With all due respect, you are wrong here. There are plenty of Focus/C-max/Fiesta’s etc around up to 2016/17 with this engine in various sizes and specifications. Beyond this the later Ka 5dr uses a version of it too. It’s a robust and well regarded design.
Edited by SLO76 on 27/03/2022 at 10:18
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Yeah, but it's currently a useless paperweight, with little chance of it getting a new heart any time soon. Presumably it has done 80-100k, if you can source a lower mileage unit then it could be back on the road at the end of the week. Sounds like it then needs to be punted to become someone else's problem and buy something reliable. Oh, wait a minute, all modern engines seem to have foibles?!? What would you go for?
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No, this car only has 32,000 miles on the clock and is in immaculate condition.
I received this email yesterday from the Ford Executive Office:
“Dear Mr ?
I hope you are well.
I am just touching base with you further to our conversation yesterday. I have now escalated this to our parts team who are working on it to come back to me with an update.
I am currently awaiting an update on this and will touch base with you no later than Monday afternoon before 3pm.
Ihope you have a lovely weekend and enjoy the weather.
If you require assistance in the meantime please do let me know. “
Executive Office, Ford Executive Office
Ford of Britain and Ireland
Seems positive. I checked yesterday at the dealership, and the Kuga is still on the ramp.
Edited by Speedbird 747 on 19/03/2022 at 08:33
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Better get first and second bases ready for all this touching. Maybe the note was from an American ? It sounds like little more than a bit of feather smoothing :-)
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Let’s put it this way , the Ford/ Yamaha 1.6 Zetec engine stopped production in 2005.
Sorry to tell you its still manufactured.
They dropped the "Zetec" engine name back in about 2004 to avoid confusion with Zetec trim and its been called the Sigma or even the Duratec since then and used in 6th generation Fiesta until it was replaced by the 7th generation model. Caterham still use the engine.
I think you are confusing it with the iron block 1.8 and 2 litre Zetec engines used in the Mk1 Mondeo and The Mk 1 Focus (another fine engine). That engine was replaced by the 1.8 and 2 litre Duratec engines (Mazda based) for the Mk 2 Mondeo and Mk 2 Focus thus would go out of use in new UK cars about 2004 or 2005.
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Another engine arrived last Saturday and the service manager at Birchwood Ford confirmed that it is a petrol engine.
The car is on the ramp, the old engine is out, so we might get it back on Wednesday. However I don’t think this will be the end of the matter. We shall see.....
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Finally got the car back this-afternoon. Just short of four months since it broke down.
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Great news! It has been an education reading the saga almost deserves an Oscar
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I think I’d be tempted to sell while it’s all good.
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What sort of warranty have Ford supplied with the engine and the dealer's workmanship?
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What sort of warranty have Ford supplied with the engine and the dealer's workmanship?
12 months warranty on parts and workmanship, but the Kuga still has nearly a year’s Ford Protect Warranty to go in tandem.
It is my son’s car. Personally I would get rid of it, but that will cost even more money. Birchwood Ford charged over £400 just to change the Powershift oil. He is out driving it now and it seems to be fine. We will get it inspected next week at another garage who has an ex Ford engineer, just to make sure.
It turned out that four out of five engines for this Kuga had been mislabelled as petrol when in fact they were diesels. That is why two diesel engines were sent and that alone set the job back two weeks. So we have got the only available petrol engine.
So far no offer of compensation from Ford for their incompetence. I don’t know how this would have been sorted out if we had just left the car at the dealership and hoped for the best. I have literally made hundreds of ‘phone calls pushing this job along. Ford Warranty Protect took over three weeks to make a decision before sending an engineer to inspect the car.
The conclusion from this episode is that you have much more clout if you have a car under manufacturers guarantee. And when a car gets to a certain age, the support and interest in it wains. If you struggle to get an engine for an 8 year old Kuga, what other sorts are difficult to obtain?
Thanks for your comments in this thread. I am worn out by it all, but glad the ordeal is over.
Edited by Speedbird 747 on 26/03/2022 at 09:37
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Having followed this thread from the off, and having been appalled by the sheer incompetence of those involved, I can only applaud your persistence and determination..
I'm sure you're entitled to a lie-down and a long drink of something - or whatever makes you feel better.
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Well done for keeping us informed and for your dogged determination to dig in and fight your corner.
From Ukraine, are you?
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Another vote of admiration for sticking with it. I'm sure many would have given up, myself included. And it's great to get the conclusion to the saga which is positive, unfortunately not all members do come back to update so we never find out what happened.
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<< It turned out that four out of five engines for this Kuga had been mislabelled as petrol when in fact they were diesels. That is why two diesel engines were sent and that alone set the job back two weeks. So we have got the only available petrol engine. >>
I find that astonishing. I'm not certain that I could do it, but I would have thought anyone in the trade could tell a petrol from a diesel engine ? Is there anything like a distributor anywhere ? Spark plugs or injectors ? Doh ...
I suppose it will have been in a wooden crate, so no-one could check.
Edited by Andrew-T on 26/03/2022 at 18:27
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Taking out a warranty on a secondhand car is well worth it, however the Ford Warranty Protect policy only makes a contribution of £30 per day for seven days towards car hire and that is while the car is actually being repaired.
Being without a car for nearly four months is just unacceptable. The inconvenience and the cost. Courtesy cars were not available for the whole four months according to Birchwood Ford. Car hire and taxis have cost us over £1,000 and yet we have no comeback for this expense from Ford U.K. or Birchwood Ford. Imagine if you needed your car to go to work everyday? What would you do? You can’t sell it or even p/ex it.
What was apparent is the lack of support if you buy a secondhand Ford. Ford Customer service personnel were nice enough, but were not very effective in resolving the actual breakdown in the ability of a Ford dealership to repair a car in a reasonable time.
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"I suppose it will have been in a wooden crate, so no-one could check."
Many years ago I got a factory reconditioned engine from Vauxhall. That came bolted into a purpose made tubular metal frame. The old engine was returned to the dealer bolted into the same frame. Worked well then so maybe the same method now. I'd be surprised if anyone working in a main dealer parts department now would recognise an engine, let alone knowing what fuel brings it to life.
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“ Birchwood Ford charged over £400 just to change the Powershift oil”
While you’ve been unlucky regarding the engine which is generally robust on these that gearbox is notoriously fragile. I would be getting shot of it quickly. I’d like to know what actually failed in the engine, was there no engineers report?
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Finally got the car back this-afternoon. Just short of four months since it broke down.
Good news. I’d get rid of it before the warranty is up though.
Edited by SLO76 on 27/03/2022 at 10:17
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I received an email from the Ford Executive Office today.
No offer of compensation for the long delay caused by them not having an available engine for the Kuga, and then sending two Diesel engines. We lost the use of the car for four months, road tax, insurance and MOT running. No contribution to all the expense they caused because of the delay in car hire charges and taxis.
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Just one final thing.
Asked the garage to stamp the service booklet, but apparently a new engine does not count as a service!
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