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Nuclear Power Station - sammy1

It has been announced that Hunterston B a nuclear power station in Scotland has closed down after 46 years. It will now face a long period of being decommissioned.

This must be a bit of a blow to all consumers who are experiencing high bills and substantially higher ones when the energy price cap is reviewed in April

Nuclear Power Station - Brit_in_Germany

Here they are closing down perfectly serviceable reactors, costing billions in compensation to the operators.

Nuclear Power Station - alan1302

Here they are closing down perfectly serviceable reactors, costing billions in compensation to the operators.

It has gone well over the lifespan that was expected of it - could it have been kept going for much longer?

Nuclear Power Station - _

It is the amount of capacity that is being removed that is going to hurt.

Nuclear Power Station - Xileno

Maybe mini nuclear reactors will fill the gap?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-54703204

Nuclear Power Station - Engineer Andy

Here they are closing down perfectly serviceable reactors, costing billions in compensation to the operators.

It has gone well over the lifespan that was expected of it - could it have been kept going for much longer?

I presume Brit is referring to those closed down in Germany because they got (wrongly) scared after Fukashima and alongside the Greenies dumped everything deemed 'bad for the environment' except (Russian) natural gas for power generation.

Now they (and we) are literally paying the price for a generation of i*d*i*o*t politicians (of all hues) who bought into this nonsence and did not understand the issues at hand or plan for anything other than good times.

I suspect our nuclear plants could be kept going for a reasonable amount of time, given the willpower and a modicum of common sence, science, engineering and (local) management skills on hand.

Unfortunately they won't be the ones running the show or making decisions.

Edited by Engineer Andy on 09/01/2022 at 14:50

Nuclear Power Station - Falkirk Bairn

The basic problem with Hunterston B is the same as Dungness + others already closed.

Graphite bricks that are used to control the output have cracks - saw a video on TV last week.

The expected life was 25+ years - they made nearly 45/50 years.

The great problem for all of is each Nuclear station that closes is we lose almost 1GW of reliable 24 x 365 power unless on periodic maintenance. Peak UK demand is mid 50GWs so Hunterston was 2% of total demand - however of the 24x7 power it is more crucial in 2%.

Gas is roughly 40% of demand, Nuclear was 14.6GW 20+ years ago now 6+ GW

Nuclear Power Station - Engineer Andy

The basic problem with Hunterston B is the same as Dungness + others already closed.

Graphite bricks that are used to control the output have cracks - saw a video on TV last week.

The expected life was 25+ years - they made nearly 45/50 years.

The great problem for all of is each Nuclear station that closes is we lose almost 1GW of reliable 24 x 365 power unless on periodic maintenance. Peak UK demand is mid 50GWs so Hunterston was 2% of total demand - however of the 24x7 power it is more crucial in 2%.

Gas is roughly 40% of demand, Nuclear was 14.6GW 20+ years ago now 6+ GW

Politicians and their underlings not planning for future needs, doing a terrible job of it and/or backing the wrong (proverbial) horse - who'd thunk it?

Nuclear Power Station - sammy1

Rolls Royce mini reactors are not forecast to come on stream before 2029 which probably means much later. There is the new full size reactor at Hinckley which is well underway

Nuclear Power Station - Engineer Andy

Rolls Royce mini reactors are not forecast to come on stream before 2029 which probably means much later. There is the new full size reactor at Hinckley which is well underway

Probably would've been better for the replacement power station to be finished before the old one is switched off.

Nuclear Power Station - Brit_in_Germany

>Probably would've been better for the replacement power station to be finished before the old one is switched off.

The problems of having a coalition with the Liberal Democrats.

Nuclear Power Station - Bromptonaut

The problems of having a coalition with the Liberal Democrats.

It goes back way further than 2010-15. The last Nuclear Power Station in the UK was Sizewell B, commissioned in the eighties and in service c1995.

Useful primer here on the dash for gas etc:

www.imeche.org/policy-and-press/from-our-perspecti...t

Nuclear Power Station - sammy1

Without starting a new topic useful article here on wood chip biomass which replaces fossil fuel. May be not so green after all

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59546278

Nuclear Power Station - nick62

Without starting a new topic useful article here on wood chip biomass which replaces fossil fuel. May be not so green after all

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59546278

Everything appears "green" when its buried in a subsidy, you only have to look at electric cars. Wealthy middle-class businessmen running around in £80-£100K Teslas with a nice £5K subsidy and 0% BIK (I know this has changed recently, but BIK is still only 2% IIRC)?

Nuclear Power Station - alan1302

Everything appears "green" when its buried in a subsidy, you only have to look at electric cars. Wealthy middle-class businessmen running around in £80-£100K Teslas with a nice £5K subsidy and 0% BIK (I know this has changed recently, but BIK is still only 2% IIRC)?

Not sure that shows that the cars are not 'green' though just that they are subsidised

Nuclear Power Station - alan1302

Without starting a new topic useful article here on wood chip biomass which replaces fossil fuel. May be not so green after all

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59546278

The UK government uses it as it reduces the UK's carbon output despite it being no better than using coal. The way countries account for their pollution needs to be changed as it's nonsense how it works now.

Nuclear Power Station - Andrew-T

<< Politicians and their underlings not planning for future needs, doing a terrible job of it and/or backing the wrong (proverbial) horse - who'd thunk it? >>

Let's all remember that politicians are no better or worse than the rest of us, so we should not realistically expect anything more of them. I can't tell what will happen in 10 years, never mind 25. If they always allowed for unlimited expansion we would all refuse to pay for it.

Nuclear Power Station - Engineer Andy

<< Politicians and their underlings not planning for future needs, doing a terrible job of it and/or backing the wrong (proverbial) horse - who'd thunk it? >>

Let's all remember that politicians are no better or worse than the rest of us, so we should not realistically expect anything more of them. I can't tell what will happen in 10 years, never mind 25. If they always allowed for unlimited expansion we would all refuse to pay for it.

A proficient politician should realise when their personal'professional knowledge or understanding is lacking and be able to use/find sources who do and be relied upon to be trustworthy, honourable and straight-talking.

That most would rather take 'advice' from people they have either no clue about, they don't trust or worse still, don't care but just want someone to blame if it all goes pear-shaped is a damning indictment of politics, especially that of the last 25-30 years.

Most of us in work can reasonably determine who to trust for advice and who not to (for whatever reason, not just technical competency), and to me, that is one of the main criteria for being a politician - decent delegation and judging the facts to then make credible decisions on policy and stand by them.

That most (of all hues) seemingly cannot, and those that can are often deliberately sidelined preceisely because they speak plainly / honestly and don't bulls*** their way up the greasey pole is also not a great advertisement for modern politics.

Those in power appear to care more about 'playing the game' and short-term hollow victories (often via the media who aren't representative of the wider public, especially now) rather than the final outcome means for important issues like this, we are seemingly doomed unless things change, and very soon.

I think the said could certainly be said of large tracts of the Civil Service (especially at management level), big business and the media, all of which, helped by the public's blase attitude to much of government workings / decision making, has got us in the terrible situation we now find ourselves in as regards a lack of energy security and high prices - not just the pandemic.

There are lots of reasonable things we can do - unfortunately those able to help facilitate this aren't in the position to get it done becuase they don't kow-tow to those in charge or with significant influence, and/or are incorruptable as regards ethics that are seemingly a pre-requisite to modern political, media or business life.

Nuclear Power Station - edlithgow

"I suspect our nuclear plants could be kept going for a reasonable amount of time, given the willpower and a modicum of common sence, science, engineering and (local) management skills on hand."

Common sense is in short supply in this context.

We have here a device that requires continuous, active, high volume cooling or it blows up/melts down/burns, (releasing a lot of radiation), even after its been correctly shut down. Same applies to its stored spent fuel.

You don’t have to be a nuclear physicist (in fact it probably helps if you’re not) to recognise that as inherently unsafe.

More specifically, the most widely deployed design has been known for some time as an especially s***ty reactor. Their containment is weak and will not withstand a meltdown.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=fukushima-core&page=

This one

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/mar/14/nuclearpower-energy?INTCMP=ILCNETTXT3487

quotes the US Atomic Energy Commission as stating “as early as 1972 that the General Electric reactors, which did away with the traditional large containment domes, were more vulnerable to explosion and more vulnerable to the release of radiation if a meltdown occurred.”

"The early warning about the reactor design was reinforced in 1986 when Harold Denton, then the top safety official at the Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC), warned of a high risk of failure of the mark one containment system.

“Mark one containment, especially being smaller with lower design pressure, in spite of the suppression pool… you’ll find something like a 90% probability of that containment failing,”

Edited by edlithgow on 21/09/2022 at 01:21

Nuclear Power Station - Heidfirst

Torness & Heysham also to close early (2028)

Nuclear Power Station - edlithgow
Sometime in the late 70,s I was hitching up the east coast to Edinburgh and got a lift from a very pleasant and well to do media biz couple who were relocating and looking at houses en route. They dropped me in the driveway of a Cliftop desrez in extensive grounds and suggested I meet them at the house in an hour or so if I hadn’t got another lift. I snooped around a bit and met them and agent at the main entrance.

They had “fallen in love with ” the house, and there were pound signs in the agents eyes, which turned to daggers on my” You do know about the nuclear reactor they are breaking ground on down there?

If looks could kill, I’d be a nuclear casualty.