She'd rather have a Vauxhall than a Honda? Amazed she's not after a VW/MINI/BMW!

Tricky one SLO, I had the previous generation Mokka(from new for just over 3 years) and while it was reliable I never loved it and it wasn't until we chopped it in for our current Vitara That I realised how coa*** the ride was, I've driven the new 'E' and it wasn't a lot different tbh, you need to remember there built on the Corsa floorpan.

Pity about the Volvo, newer ones are not a patch on the older ones, I had a 940 for 7 years, never missed a beat and nothing fell off!

We all make mistakes ....personally I would look at a self charging hybrid rather than a plug in.

The previous generation Corsa/Mokka used the SCCS platform from the GM-Fiat alliance - the present Corsa/Mokka uses the PSA EMP1 platform which is completely different.

Pity about the Volvo, newer ones are not a patch on the older ones, I had a 940 for 7 years, never missed a beat and nothing fell off!

Agree...I've had the 264, the 764 and the V70 in the past...all really good cars and have always been a Volvo fan...shame that SLO's experience has been so disappointing.

I think there are two separate financial matters to consider here. Firstly, the cost of ownership comparison. A pcp is mentioned for the EV which translates to nearly 4000 pounds a year for hiring it for four years. (That will almost add up to what we paid for SWMBO's brand new top of the range ICE Pug 2008 just over two years ago - and at least one poster thought the 17k price was too much!). How much cheaper would a similar ICE car be?

Secondly, the fuel costs. A 50 mile commute is mentioned which, with additional social mileage, probably adds up to 15,000 miles a year. With fuel now so dear, that'll be around 15p per mile - over 2000 pounds per annum for the ICE. I guess for the EV it will be only a few hundred. It's for each individual to work out whether that saving will eventually exceed the increased cost of having an EV, which to me only makes financial sense for high milers doing lots of short journeys.

“ Looked at another way - buy the pre-2017 models but not the later ones - seems clear to me.” Exactly

Just buy her a Honda and stick a personalised number plate on it so she doesn't know its age.

Which cars offer more profit margin for manufacturers and dealers? EV or ICE?

Depends how you classify costs - IC cars have lower (relatively) research and development costs but higher tooling costs.

We have impending shortages of generating power i.e Reliable 24x7 electricity.

Wind and solar are unreliable - 30% of supply one day and possibly 2 or 3% the next

Many of the older nuclear sites are due to close within 10 years. Hunterston (Ayrshire) 800MW this month, Torness (East Lothian) 1300MW in 6 to 8 years just to mention 2

Coal stations - the 2 left in the UK are to close in the next year or 2.

Bang goes around 8GW out of a maximum of about 60GW (inc imports from EU & Norway)

The other issue you mention is distribution - lack of supply to & from current substations.

A new distillery opened locally and it took nearly 8 weeks to run a 300 metre cable of 3 phase from a substation.

Multiply that effort & cost to say 1/2 or 1/3rd of the streets in the UK and we have a huge problem.

I think most people will opt for cheap rate electricity and charge during the night. In truth a majority of people will only need a couple of hours a night so it'll always be full at 7am.

and everyone including people who do not drive are paying high taxes to provide our so called green energy in what ever form..

If you want to live in a less polluted world then you need to pay for it - it won't happwn without money being invested into it.

and everyone including people who do not drive are paying high taxes to provide our so called green energy in what ever form..

If you want to live in a less polluted world then you need to pay for it - it won't happwn without money being invested into it.

If you had quoted my whole sentence instead of the bit that suited you then why do we have to pay a subsidy of some billion pounds to Drax that burns imported wood chip. Why do we pay companies that run wind turbines compensation to turn them off when excess electric is generated. Why is the consumer being "forced" to pay for smart meters costing some £88 each to install (no you don't see this on your bill it is in the tariff). Why are we subsidising people to install ground/air pumps and biomass boilers. Biomass is by all accounts now considered more polluting than coal which we are also importing. This list goes on not least the 5%VAT that surely must be an insult especially to pensioners and the poorly paid.

Then there is the bill for all the failed energy companies. Together has failed today apparently being run by a local council. What are they and other councils doing running private companies. The tax payer is subsidising the bills of the biggest failure.

Before electric and gas even reach are homes it is costing us in the region of £250 each in tax of some sort and this is after your income tax

If I quoted your original full post I would be not talking about the part I wanted to.

My post also tells you why there are subsidies and why we have to pay more tax - to move over to less pollution energy production companies and people need incentives to do so which is why the government does it. So that is why Drax is paid it's money (not quote a billion though) and that is why that is why money is put into smart meters. Although I think you know this already.

A less polluting future won't exist without a lot of money spending - unless you know different or don't want a change?

"A less polluting future won't exist without a lot of money spending - unless you know different or don't want a change?"

I think it's more that Sammy likes to have a moan about EVs.

OK please try to justify the subsidy of over a billion pounds paid to Drax a private company using public money to profit for its share holders

Also when the cost of gas and electric doubles in April the government 5% VAT take doubles, no wonder Boris is reluctant to remove the Vat despite his statement pre Brexit..

Today a lithium mine goes on stream in Cornwall which will supply the mineral to Uk industry to make batteries. This is very good news although it is a pity that the UK Gov. is giving the company £3million of tax payers money when again this private company will in turn make considerable profit for its owners.

For the record which I am sick of mentioning I have no axe to grind on EV other than their poor range, expense and they are not that green!

Yes common sense says charge then, but the reality is that there is a big need to charge in the day for commercial, business and ordinary folk going about their daily activity hence the need for public chargers. The more well off will not give a dam when they charge.

Don't get this at all. EV's can manage about 200 miles on a charge. So with a decent overnight charge why should "ordinary" folk going about their daily activities need public chargers which cost a small fortune compared to overnight charging.

How many "ordinary" people do 200+ miles each day?

Unless it’s lithium you’re thinking about? That comes, predominantly, from Chile, followed by Australia.

Of course there are various places - the holes will still be gigantic, a long way from the drivers of the EVs.

the ID3 was similar but smaller being based on a shorter version of the same platform.

As I said last night, the extra length of the Enyaq (and ID.4) over the ID.3 is all in the overhangs, the wheelbase on all three are virtually the same, though the Enyaq has marginally the shortest (5mm shorter than the ID.3).

The ID4 weirdly had a shorter range than the near identical Skoda and cost more which rules it out

As far as I can ascertain, both cars are available (in various markets) with 55, 62 and 82kWh batteries. So the only explanation I can think of for the shorter range is that the 55kWh battery is not available for the Enyaq in the UK, but is in the ID.4 (either that, or if they did in fact have the same batteries, VW's range claim is more realistic). Of course you are paying more for the VW (despite the smaller battery, if that was the case) because of the badge!.

the Skoda was actually nicer inside too surprisingly.

I have read that the interior quality of the ID.3 and ID.4 are nothing special, so this doesn't surprise too much.

“ Might be worth having a look at the Kia Niro, which like its sister the Hyundai Ioniq” We compared it side by side with the Skoda, ID3 and the ID4 (AC have an “innovation centre” in Glasgow with examples from most manufacturers) and found the Kia surprisingly too small inside. It’s ugly as sin too. The big Skoda was a lovely car to drive. Loads of room, good seats, plenty of poke and it rode properly unlike most modern cars, the ID3 was similar but smaller being based on a shorter version of the same platform. The ID4 weirdly had a shorter range than the near identical Skoda and cost more which rules it out, the Skoda was actually nicer inside too surprisingly.

The Kia isn't so easy on the eye as its Hyundai equivalent (though the inside of the latter is a sea of dull grey plastic), but sadly very few cars these days are both pretty and practical and/or reliable.

Odd about the interior size - maybe issues as discussed in that other thread about car size comparison, perhaps with this one being an early EV in the grand scheme of mass-market adoption.

If you can hold out for a bit longer, you might find (hopefully as the Pandemic subsides, logistics issues improve and prices fall) you get better bargains and that more EVs/PHEVs come onto the market, both new and nearly new, further improving the odds of finding a great long term buy.

Might be worth (if possible) you and SWMBO getting a long-term test (e.g. for a week) on those you really like, especially to see if living with an EV (especially in the event of your future charging point failing/power cut meaning you might need to charge it up on the go or at the workplace) is for you, a practical/viable option.