Kia Niro 2018/68 - Fuel Consumtion of PHEV

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Sat 24 Jul 2021 12:57
Kia Niro 2018/68 - Fuel Consumtion of PHEV - davethesteam

I have been running one of the above for 2 years now and find the car superb in every respect. I see there is quite a lot of discussion re fuel consumption of PHEV's.

Obviously, the more miles you do on electric, the better the overall result will be. In the real world though,motorway and long distance driving does crop up.

We do approx 10000 mpy and our crude overall consumption is 90 mpg. On long distance journies, I start off with a full battery (36 mile indicated) and run on pure electric for the first 15-20 miles.

I then switch to HEV mode, move the gear lever to 'sport' which enables me to use 6th gear pretty much the whole time whilst on the motorway. On normal (flattish) motorwars, with the aircon on the car automatically recharges the battery at the rate of up to 1 mile per 10 run. Once the battery is recharged to 35-36 miles, I switch back to electric until the battery reading goes down to approx 15 miles and then I repeat the process. I have just done 400 miles with 2 full plugged in recharges and averaged 75 mpg - I find that very creditable

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Sun 25 Jul 2021 08:37
Kia Niro 2018/68 - Fuel Consumtion of PHEV - FiestaOwner

While your figures initially sound impressive, it's not the complete picture.

MPG is a good measure for ICE and "self charging hybrids, as petrol (or diesel) is the only fuel you put in. For a PHEV you also pay for your electricity from the National Grid. Electricity isn't free.

Any figure you quote would need to take account of the electricity cost (which would be higher if using the public charger network and not a home charger). In addition it would need to take account of public charger subscription fees.

While your figures sound very good, the fuel cost is higher than you are making out.

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Sun 25 Jul 2021 09:42
Kia Niro 2018/68 - Fuel Consumtion of PHEV - badbusdriver

While your figures initially sound impressive, it's not the complete picture.

MPG is a good measure for ICE and "self charging hybrids, as petrol (or diesel) is the only fuel you put in. For a PHEV you also pay for your electricity from the National Grid. Electricity isn't free.

Any figure you quote would need to take account of the electricity cost (which would be higher if using the public charger network and not a home charger). In addition it would need to take account of public charger subscription fees.

While your figures sound very good, the fuel cost is higher than you are making out.

If the OP is charging at home on a competitive tariff, the electricity cost, especially for a PHEV (where the battery isn't actually that big and therefore doesn't need that much electricity to charge it) is going to be so small it is barely worth mentioning. And looking purely at the post, he doesn't use public chargers.

I'm curious about the use of electric only mode on a longer journey?. Surely just leaving the hybrid system to its own devices would be better than setting off on electric only mode, using it till almost depleted, then relying on self charging to top the battery up again, going back to electric only and repeating the process?.

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Sun 25 Jul 2021 12:54
Kia Niro 2018/68 - Fuel Consumtion of PHEV - FiestaOwner

While your figures initially sound impressive, it's not the complete picture.

MPG is a good measure for ICE and "self charging hybrids, as petrol (or diesel) is the only fuel you put in. For a PHEV you also pay for your electricity from the National Grid. Electricity isn't free.

Any figure you quote would need to take account of the electricity cost (which would be higher if using the public charger network and not a home charger). In addition it would need to take account of public charger subscription fees.

While your figures sound very good, the fuel cost is higher than you are making out.

If the OP is charging at home on a competitive tariff, the electricity cost, especially for a PHEV (where the battery isn't actually that big and therefore doesn't need that much electricity to charge it) is going to be so small it is barely worth mentioning. And looking purely at the post, he doesn't use public chargers.

I'm curious about the use of electric only mode on a longer journey?. Surely just leaving the hybrid system to its own devices would be better than setting off on electric only mode, using it till almost depleted, then relying on self charging to top the battery up again, going back to electric only and repeating the process?.

BBD, I stand by my previous post. We can't see how many kw/h were used. Without this info, I can't see if a PHEV would be more economical for me to run and if it would justify it's higher purchase price.

BBD, you also said about tariffs. While I accept there are some very good tariffs, which suit overnight EV charging, it also means dearer rates through the day. My cooker, kettle, washing machine and tumble dryer (don't use in summer) are used through the day or early evening. I won't use the washing machine or tumble dryer overnight, due to the fire risk. Therefore a cheaper overnight rate for charging the PHEV could work out more expensive than a standard tariff.

However, despite what I have posted, I am pleased that the OP finds the car "superb" and is obviously pleased with his choice.

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Sun 25 Jul 2021 14:06
Kia Niro 2018/68 - Fuel Consumtion of PHEV - badbusdriver

BBD, I stand by my previous post. We can't see how many kw/h were used. Without this info, I can't see if a PHEV would be more economical for me to run and if it would justify it's higher purchase price.

I'm not arguing, just pointing out that as a PHEV rather than EV, the amount of electricity needed to charge its battery at home (takes around 2.5 hours via the onboard 3.3 kilowatt charger) will be absolutely minimal. Especially so on that long journey where, going by what the OP implies, it would only have been plugged in once.

BBD, you also said about tariffs. While I accept there are some very good tariffs, which suit overnight EV charging, it also means dearer rates through the day. My cooker, kettle, washing machine and tumble dryer (don't use in summer) are used through the day or early evening. I won't use the washing machine or tumble dryer overnight, due to the fire risk. Therefore a cheaper overnight rate for charging the PHEV could work out more expensive than a standard tariff.

When i mentioned tariffs, I didn't mean a tariff specific for an EV as, with such a short time spent plugged in, that may not be needed. Just a good tariff in general.

The Niro PHEV is £5360 more than the Niro self charge hybrid, so it certainly isn't going to be worthwhile for everybody.

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Sun 25 Jul 2021 14:10
Kia Niro 2018/68 - Fuel Consumtion of PHEV - sammy1

Having spent some £35k on a car and seeing it depreciate like a stone MPG per amp/volt/kwh/tariff/gallon/litre would be the least of my concerns and as for switching fuels in the journey well not for me, but if the owner is happy good luck to him just hope he keeps his eyes on the road instead of his battery dial. Would I buy a PHEV/hybrid second hand no.

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Sun 25 Jul 2021 20:49
Kia Niro 2018/68 - Fuel Consumtion of PHEV - alan1302

Would I buy a PHEV/hybrid second hand no.

Why?

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Sun 25 Jul 2021 21:09
Kia Niro 2018/68 - Fuel Consumtion of PHEV - mcb100
It’s only an 8.9kWh battery, so at roughly 14p per KWh it’s only £1.30 to charge the battery empty to full.
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Sun 25 Jul 2021 21:23
Kia Niro 2018/68 - Fuel Consumtion of PHEV - SLO76
Using your more likely average economy figure of 75mpg and annual mileage of 10k you’ve saved all of £400 a year on fuel compared to a less costly to buy petrol equivalent doing say 50mpg. Now factor in the cost of electricity and the higher depreciation and you’ll in reality find your costly to buy hybrid hasn’t been quite as economical to run at all.

Had a quick look at 2018 PHEV Niro’s and a typical example is around £18000 while an equivalent Sportage is around £13,000. Now the average official figure for the Niro is an average of 54.3mpg and the Sportage 1.6 GDi does 44.8mpg so that’s a saving without factoring electricity of approximately £240 a year. To cover that additional £5,000 cost of a used example it’ll take just under 21yrs. In other words, hybrids make little economic sense with smaller cars like this. Large prestige cars offer greater savings and cost little more if anything than a complex turbo diesel.

I’ll stick with my old Toyota that cost £4150 3yrs ago, does an average of 42mpg with me and is still worth at least £3,000 so the cost of 3yrs utterly reliable motoring has been a fraction of the cost of a new or nearly new hybrid and the cost to the environment has been substantially less.

Sorry for sounding a bit harsh but low mileage users who allow themselves to believe that hybrids and electric cars make economic sense are a bit of a pet hate of mine. I know one guy who spent over £25k on a new Mk I Nissan Leaf. As a pensioner he did very little mileage, approximately 5k a year. When he went to trade it in after 3yrs they offered him £7,500 for it. This was several years ago of course and dealers had no clue how to value electric cars at the time but still today they suffer badly from depreciation. Needless to say he still had the car the last time I saw him. He was mightily angry when he was retelling the story to me at the time. I’m glad I wasn’t the salesman charged with presenting the part exchange offer to him.

Edited by SLO76 on 25/07/2021 at 21:43

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Sun 25 Jul 2021 23:08
Kia Niro 2018/68 - Fuel Consumtion of PHEV - FiestaOwner

Find myself agreeing with everything you are saying there SLO. If I was choosing between hybrid and petrol, I would be choosing based upon what I thought would be the cheapest over all.

Found a very good post from skidpan on his PHEV Superb. In his case the PHEV worked out well as his car was a cancelled order, so he got a good discount on it.

In his example he was getting 71mpg. Once he converted the electric to gallon equivalent cost and factored it in, his consumption changed to 55mpg. I would say the electricity cost is significant and not negligible as some posters are saying.

The 55 mpg is better than he was getting with his previous petrol Superb.

Skidpan's post is here: www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/144402/4-months-wi...e

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Mon 26 Jul 2021 09:08
Kia Niro 2018/68 - Fuel Consumtion of PHEV - pd

It's not just about cost and mpg though is it.

If it was we would all be driving often something very different. A lot of buyers of hybrid and EV cars buy them simply because they like them. Many owners find them nicer to drive than the petrol or diesel equivalents so, if they can afford them, why not?

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Mon 26 Jul 2021 09:34
Kia Niro 2018/68 - Fuel Consumtion of PHEV - London calling

I use to have a Mazda diesel cx7 (lovely car) but then suffered the dpf and rising oil issue so decided to change it. Didn’t want another diesel due to problems that can arise with regular short journeys but needed something fairly economical for when I do a few journeys a year of around 3000 miles. Wanted an automatic, looked at petrol and for size of car I wanted they returned around 28/32 mpg so looked at hybrid Toyota rav 4 and Lexus 300h and went for the Lexus that returns mid 40 mpg. Car is very relaxing to drive and they are good on reliability which I wanted.

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Wed 4 Aug 2021 23:13
Kia Niro 2018/68 - Fuel Consumtion of PHEV - Andrew-T

It's not just about cost and mpg though is it.

No. Taking these mpg figures and buying costs as read, it's not about saving money, it's meant to be about saving the environment, especially in urban areas. Trying to achieve that may well cost all vehicle owners a few ££, so perhaps we should revise our accounting methods ?

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Wed 4 Aug 2021 21:38
Kia Niro 2018/68 - Fuel Consumtion of PHEV - JohnX

I rented a Mitsubishi PHEV a few years back and at the time had one of those home "smart meters" that tell you exactly how much -electricity instant consumption is at that given point in time.
It took about ?8 hours to charge the battery up and during this time, the consumption on the smart meter was equivalent to having the iron turned on ie in the reds.

And an iron is about 2000 watt, so I wouldnt say the electricity bills would be minimal.

The savings appear to me more notional than actual here.

Edited by JohnX on 04/08/2021 at 21:40

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Wed 4 Aug 2021 22:43
Kia Niro 2018/68 - Fuel Consumtion of PHEV - Brit_in_Germany

On the figures given, a rough esti ate would be that a full charge saves around 2 litres of fuel. If the electricity costs £1.30 (probably a bit more due to charging inefficiency) that would save a little per charge.

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Thu 5 Aug 2021 08:11
Kia Niro 2018/68 - Fuel Consumtion of PHEV - Heidfirst

The savings appear to me more notional than actual here.

Unless it's a company car when BIK savings can be quite marked (not to mention the business gets to write down/off the value so depreciation is less of an issue).

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Thu 5 Aug 2021 11:13
Kia Niro 2018/68 - Fuel Consumtion of PHEV - madf

Thinking of a s/h BMW X3 with REX.

Annual costs vs petrol Jazz:

Insurance + £50

Tax -£130

Maintenance (DIY) nil change

Fuel: Petrol -£800 6,000 miles

Electricity +£250

Net saving pa.£630

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