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The short answer is that Oxides of Nitrogen (NOx) and particulates are a serious local pollutant responsible for significant illness and occasionally deaths particularly for people with respiratory problems:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-56801794
Diesels produce far more NOx and particulates than petrols. Attempts to control these emissions with particle filters and ad-blue systems are complex and not always effective - see VAG etc. New regulations on the accuracy of consumption figures have militated against diesel too leading to them disappearing from smaller cars and from some ranges, eg Subaru, altogether.
Councils are introducing Ultra Low Emission Zones to prtect their citizens which penalise older diesels.
The diesel HGV will continue for the foreseeable future as there is no alternative.
There are alternatives for cars.
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I think the VW 'Dieselgate' scandal is what did for diesel cars. As I understand things, VW diesel engines were relatively 'clean' but someone thought it a good idea to cheat the system to make them seem even cleaner. There was already an anti-diesel movement in towns and cities because of particulate emissions.
For cars, diesel engines had a relatively short period of wide popularity, from the mid 1990's up to Dieselgate in 2015, with the high point being the years when diesel cars were unbeatable at Le Mans and most manufacturers offered 'hot' diesel versions of their products.
Up to the 1990's there was widespread prejudice against diesels as being slow, noisy and smelly even though the engines on offer had developed way beyond that.
Now we're still seeing popular prejudice against electric cars, a bit like there was with diesel cars as mentioned above. People still talk about electric cars being 'slow', with batteries that only last a couple of years and 'where will all the electricity come from if we all have electric cars?'
My view is that people should be allowed to continue with their diesel or petrol cars without major hindrances, as long as the engines are well maintained. As for new cars, people should be strongly incentivised to buy electric cars.
As for HGVs, those will be battery electric too in the future. Some manufacturers are already offering electric lorries, aimed at local and medium-distance work. If a battery powered artic tractor weighs a ton more than an equivalent diesel one in order to have a decent range, then it will have a ton less payload capacity within it's gross weight limit. But if it's much, much cheaper to operate, then it could still make economic sense.
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There are ~0.5m HGVs on UK roads compared with ~12.0m cars and vans.
In terms of performance and functionality diesel clearly works best for HGVs, but petrol diesel, (and even electric) are mostly interchangeable for smaller vehicles.
Diesel particulates are nasty and emissions systems complex. It makes complete sense for the focus to be upon their removal from traffic first.
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Apparently LPG is far more ECO friendly than petrol or diesel, but no mention of it on politicians agenda.
LPG produces 33% less CO2 emissions than petrol and 45% less CO2 than diesel. LPG vehicles produce up to 82% less Nitrogen Oxide pollutants than petrol and 99% better than diesel !
www.dynamicassetrecovery.com/whats-best-lpg-petrol...l
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Apparently LPG is far more ECO friendly than petrol or diesel, but no mention of it on politicians agenda.
LPG produces 33% less CO2 emissions than petrol and 45% less CO2 than diesel. LPG vehicles produce up to 82% less Nitrogen Oxide pollutants than petrol and 99% better than diesel !
www.dynamicassetrecovery.com/whats-best-lpg-petrol...l
It's been around for years and is cheaper than diesel or petrol.
Whilst it's not been promoted there's been no animus against it from politicians. Usage is declining and few manufacturers offer it in new vehicles. I think what militates against it is the faff factor, the fact that the tank is bulky and eats into loadspace together with restrictions on LPG vehicles in some spaces/places.
Although the article linked refers to abundant supply that's not the case right now as anybody trying to buy gas for a caravan will tell you.
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LPG is a by product of the oil refining process. It is not "green" and relies upon drilling holes in the ground to extract oil and natural gas.
Individuals may see some benefit from conversion of vehicles over the next few years although supplies are apparently becoming increasingly scarce and fuel stations need specialist equipment.
It may have some advantages over petrol (and some disadvantages) but will disappear as petrol and diesel will disappear from the roads, along with gas from domestic dwellings over the next few decades.
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LPG is a by product of the oil refining process. It is not "green" and relies upon drilling holes in the ground to extract oil and natural gas.
And neither are windmills, solar panels, electric cars, batteries and even milk bottles.
They all rely on oil/gas even coal during manufacture. They also require digging b***** big holes, mainly in 3rd world countries sometimes using slave labour and highly polluting extraction and refining processes. Cobalt, Lithium, rare metals etc cause massive pollution and health problems. But not in the UK, so thats ok.....out of sight, out of mind
It may have some advantages over petrol (and some disadvantages) but will disappear as petrol and diesel will disappear from the roads, along with gas from domestic dwellings over the next few decades.
Well if that pipedream is persued to the promised conclusion, expect a significant proportion of the UKs population to disappear. If not due to hypothermia then because it'll be far cheaper and pleasant to live elsewhere. But then the politicians that make these promises will have retired to their carribean homes by 2030, so thats ok...for them
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Well if that pipedream is persued to the promised conclusion, expect a significant proportion of the UKs population to disappear. If not due to hypothermia then because it'll be far cheaper and pleasant to live elsewhere.
At last! An argument for Brexit that actually makes sense.
It will prevent the punters leaving the sinking ship of state.
While we are on legal loopholes and the plugging thereof, I presume the sale of a new LPG-fuelled car would also be prevented by the coming ban?
Its to be applied to all IC engines, regardless of fuel source, yes?
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LPG is a by product of the oil refining process. It is not "green" and relies upon drilling holes in the ground to extract oil and natural gas.
Individuals may see some benefit from conversion of vehicles over the next few years although supplies are apparently becoming increasingly scarce and fuel stations need specialist equipment.
It may have some advantages over petrol (and some disadvantages) but will disappear as petrol and diesel will disappear from the roads, along with gas from domestic dwellings over the next few decades.
I suppose it depends on whether just 'getting rid of' the LPG by-product is not as bad as burning it in the grands scheme of things.
It can also be used (with barely any modifications, if at all [ for modern ones]) as an alternative fuel source for gas boilers, which may make sense for people living in areas without natural gas that have to rely on oil-fuelled boilers and can't afford electric or heat pump systems.
For cars, I think LPG's time has come and gone - whilst they work well enough in compairson to petrol, Bromptonaut's assessment is correct, especially on the fuel tank issues, which is probably why they apper to mostly get retrofitted to large, gas-guzzling older cars like Jags and Range Rovers that have the space in the boot to take the tank.
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It can also be used (with barely any modifications, if at all [ for modern ones]) as an alternative fuel source for gas boilers, which may make sense for people living in areas without natural gas that have to rely on oil-fuelled boilers and can't afford electric or heat pump systems.
We see a more and more of that on successive visits to the Western Isles, a lot of places that previously had an oil tank now have on for LPG. A former London Colleague retired to a new development in a village in Fife. The houses have a communal gas tank with individual meters. There's a contract that ensures the tank is kept full.
For cars, I think LPG's time has come and gone - whilst they work well enough in compairson to petrol, Bromptonaut's assessment is correct, especially on the fuel tank issues, which is probably why they apper to mostly get retrofitted to large, gas-guzzling older cars like Jags and Range Rovers that have the space in the boot to take the tank.
You cannot take an LPG vehicle on Le Shuttle (the Chunnel car service). Road tunnels in France also restrict them.
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Dacia make lpg cars
www.topgear.com/car-reviews/dacia/10-tce-100-bi-fu...e
Many are available from other manufacturers but mainly only for Europe and Russia. Last time I was in Poland, many if not most petrol stations sold LPG.
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It can also be used (with barely any modifications, if at all [ for modern ones]) as an alternative fuel source for gas boilers, which may make sense for people living in areas without natural gas that have to rely on oil-fuelled boilers and can't afford electric or heat pump systems.
We see a more and more of that on successive visits to the Western Isles, a lot of places that previously had an oil tank now have on for LPG. A former London Colleague retired to a new development in a village in Fife. The houses have a communal gas tank with individual meters. There's a contract that ensures the tank is kept full.
I'm presuming that LPG is easier to deal with than heating oils as well. [Apologies for going a bit off-topic here] One thing I would say in praise of oil systems - not them per se but the manufacturers of the boilers is that they regularly get higher ratings for customer service than those selling gas fired ones.
I wonder if firms/people can get LPG electricity generators instead of diesel ones, whether for use in remote areas that regularly have power cuts due to the more extreme weather, or as backup generators for big/important buildings.
For cars, I think LPG's time has come and gone - whilst they work well enough in compairson to petrol, Bromptonaut's assessment is correct, especially on the fuel tank issues, which is probably why they apper to mostly get retrofitted to large, gas-guzzling older cars like Jags and Range Rovers that have the space in the boot to take the tank.
You cannot take an LPG vehicle on Le Shuttle (the Chunnel car service). Road tunnels in France also restrict them.
I read a letter in today's Telegraph that Shell have stopped selling LPG at the 'pump' - which not be good for owners of converted cars if other retailers follow.
Is the reason why they don't allow LPG cars on the Chunnel or in certain (presumably long) road tunnels is because the gas is under high pressure and the effects of explosions due to accidents? If so, that might negate hydrogen-fuelled ICE vehicles as well (see other thread).
It's amazing how diesel came to be 'fashionable' (for the wrong reasons) so quickly and now has equally fallen out of favour in a short time - perhaps a bit too much (IMHO an over-reaction in both circumstances, possibly to be repeated with EVs and hydrogen fuelled cars [incl. fuel cell], but that's for another discussion thread).
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<< LPG produces 33% less CO2 emissions than petrol and 45% less CO2 than diesel ! >>
Speaking as a chemist, I don't know what that means. LPG is chemically the same as petrol but more volatile (the clue is Liquefied Petroleum Gas) so when burnt it produces almost identical CO2 and energy per kg, but rather less per litre because it is less dense. A diesel engine extracts more energy because of a higher compression ratio - which causes the NOx and particulates.
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My view is that people should be allowed to continue with their diesel or petrol cars without major hindrances, as long as the engines are well maintained. As for new cars, people should be strongly incentivised to buy electric cars.
Think back to the period when diesel cars became popular (mid-80s and onwards) because they got 20-30% more mpg (= less CO2). The engines were basic by today's standards and many owners did little to keep them running cleanly. In a le Mans start from the lights black clouds were a common occurrence. When that happens today it is noticeable because it's unusual.
Every few months I give my Pug diesel 10 litres of V-power fuel, which it clearly enjoys; it always passes the emission test easily and I never see any grey exhaust. Diesels can be kept running cleanly, it just needs a little thought, and it costs little.
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