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Citroen C4 Grand Picasso - Picasso Grand C4 vs Touran vs Smax - nevermind1

Nuts and bolts: 2 (+1 soon) kids. Have survived 2 with a 1.8 petrol civic mk8 which is great to drive, super reliable Etc. but ultimately a pain even before the +1

Budget: 6-10k / Under 70k miles / could go lower than 6k given will be a bin on wheels anyway, but not sure if actually wise w tax/maintenance/running costs

Shortlist:

grand picasso '14 onwards - lots of kit / can get couple yrs newer compared to others / reliability issues? / efficient / EAT6 box from '15 seems to be turning point on an acceptable drive

touran - smallest but like a tardis / boring / pricey / most reliable?

smax - biggest but best to drive apparently / again reliability / higher running costs

if buying new might go touran but all have good/bad points. with all, 90% sold as diesels, but we do mostly town driving which seems to be an issue when you read around. other thing is manual vs auto, the budget scares me off auto boxes a bit

Citroen C4 Grand Picasso - Picasso Grand C4 vs Touran vs Smax - badbusdriver

Nuts and bolts: 2 (+1 soon) kids. Have survived 2 with a 1.8 petrol civic mk8 which is great to drive, super reliable Etc. but ultimately a pain even before the +1

Budget: 6-10k / Under 70k miles / could go lower than 6k given will be a bin on wheels anyway, but not sure if actually wise w tax/maintenance/running costs

Shortlist:

grand picasso '14 onwards - lots of kit / can get couple yrs newer compared to others / reliability issues? / efficient / EAT6 box from '15 seems to be turning point on an acceptable drive

touran - smallest but like a tardis / boring / pricey / most reliable?

smax - biggest but best to drive apparently / again reliability / higher running costs

if buying new might go touran but all have good/bad points. with all, 90% sold as diesels, but we do mostly town driving which seems to be an issue when you read around. other thing is manual vs auto, the budget scares me off auto boxes a bit

As an auto I wouldn't have the Touran due to the DSG box. The S Max, not 100% sure, but I think this would also have the Powershift DCT, which I wouldn't want. The C4, as an auto, with the EAT6 box, yes the box is good, but the 1.2 Puretech petrol is getting a reputation for failures. So as an auto, all have drawbacks.

As a manual, it would be the Touran with a turbo petrol for me out of your three.

£10k is also just about going to get you into the current shape Citroen Berlingo/Peugeot Rifter/Vauxhall Combo Life (which in terms of usability and fitness for purpose, are pretty much unbeatable as family cars), but a, you'd struggle to find an auto at that budget, and b, petrol versions also use the 1.2 Puretech.

But if your 7 seater had to be an auto, I'd be looking at the Vauxhall Zafira Tourer with the 1.4 turbo petrol.

Citroen C4 Grand Picasso - Picasso Grand C4 vs Touran vs Smax - badbusdriver

As a budget option, given your experience with your Civic, how about a Honda FR-V?. This 6 seat (2 rows of 3) MPV could fit the bill, it is as reliable as a Civic and can be had as an auto from under £4k. Here is one on Autotrader and a Zaf underneath.

202103110034106

202104271882804

Citroen C4 Grand Picasso - Picasso Grand C4 vs Touran vs Smax - UCB
Or a Toyota Verso. My missus has one which replaced a Honda FRV. Plenty around in petrol or diesel and auto’s are available. They’ve stopped making them new and haven’t replaced it with a similar model.
Citroen C4 Grand Picasso - Picasso Grand C4 vs Touran vs Smax - badbusdriver
Or a Toyota Verso. My missus has one which replaced a Honda FRV. Plenty around in petrol or diesel and auto’s are available. They’ve stopped making them new and haven’t replaced it with a similar model.

Or a Mazda 5, though bear in mind the youngest will be 2014 and while auto's are out there, they are like hens teeth.

Citroen C4 Grand Picasso - Picasso Grand C4 vs Touran vs Smax - nevermind1

Thanks all.

Doesn't need to be auto, but lots are so was wondering about reliability.

Love the FR-V and considered it, but the layout in reality just doesn't quite work. Mazda 5 a bit too small as 2nd row isn't actually three sep seats like others, and again with Verso just a little smaller/less practical compared to others which is a shame.

Assume then that manual+petrol is a little safer reliability wise when buying a big maybe 10yr old car like this? Have read a few horror stories with Smaxs and Tourans, less with the Citroen but then that has it's own horror stories with big electrical issues!

Will check out the van style mpvs rec'd above.

Citroen C4 Grand Picasso - Picasso Grand C4 vs Touran vs Smax - SLO76
Give me a rough search area and I’ll have a look for a few options.
Citroen C4 Grand Picasso - Picasso Grand C4 vs Touran vs Smax - nevermind1

Thanks :)

Would likely be bought in Liverpool or Cardiff areas.

Citroen C4 Grand Picasso - Picasso Grand C4 vs Touran vs Smax - SLO76
Not a great fan of Citroen’s and the C4 Picasso doesn’t have a good reputation for reliability so I’ll exclude that, the S-Max and Galaxy are great cars but it’s hard to find one with sensible miles so you’ll need to travel further afield, I did find one with the very robust Yamaha designed 1.6 turbocharged petrol however. The Grand C-Max is another great family car as long as you choose your spec wisely and you avoid the fragile 1.0 Ecoboost. Make sure you also don’t touch any Ford with a Powershift gearbox. The Mazda 5 is too narrow you say but they’re good robust family wagons on a budget but one big MPV that comes to mind that a the Vauxhall Zafira with the 1.4 turbocharged petrol. These are available nearby in numbers within budget and they’re comfortable, decent to drive, safe and robust. I’d leave the Fist designed diesels out though.

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Remember I can’t physically check any car I suggest but I’d certainly view any of the above. The Galaxy being the oldest will require a thorough check, get underneath it to look for serious rot and even though this engine isn’t known for timing belt failures I’d want a new belt fitted at this age if there’s no proof of it having been done already. A newer Zafira 1.4T SRi would be my pick at this money for your requirements. It’s a safe place to put your family and there’s loads of them about. They’re not expensive to buy or run and they’re easy enough to sell on again.

Edited by SLO76 on 24/05/2021 at 23:40

Citroen C4 Grand Picasso - Picasso Grand C4 vs Touran vs Smax - Archie35

Love the FR-V and considered it, but the layout in reality just doesn't quite work. Mazda 5 a bit too small as 2nd row isn't actually three sep seats like others, and again with Verso just a little smaller/less practical compared to others which is a shame.

I'm surprised you think that. We have an FRV (manual), and find the layout incredibly practical. You can get 3 child seats across the back unless they are particularly wide (and if so you can slide the middle seat back (in fact both the middle seats, front and rear, can slide quite a long way back, which even allows you to carry 6 adults at a slight squeeze without the centre adults' shoulders bashing on the outsiders), which often is enough to allow the widest parts of the child seats to miss each other. The front central seat is kept folded flat most of the time, providing a very useful central arm rest / place to leave things. The boot is a decent size for day to day living, though not massive - on longer family holidays we'd add a roofbox. Though we only have 2 children, we've often travelled with 3 or even 4. Though the front centre seat is great for a child seat, it works well for any children on booster seats - and they usually love that front-central position and the great view you get.

Our FRV is diesel, which is fairly economical but does not meet the incoming London ultra low emission zones (not a problem for us). My father also has an FRV, petrol in his case, which is noticably less economical. He bought it after seing ours (second hand) as he loved the ability it gave my parents to look after all 4 of their grandchildren at once.

Citroen C4 Grand Picasso - Picasso Grand C4 vs Touran vs Smax - SLO76
I like the Honda FRV, a well cared for petrol example can make for an excellent cheap family car but the boot space is inadequate for holidays etc, I also would favour spending more for the vastly improved safety of a more modern design such as the later model Zafira if I was trusting my children’s lives to it and funds were available. That’s not saying the Honda is unsafe, it’s just an older design with fewer safety features.

Citroen C4 Grand Picasso - Picasso Grand C4 vs Touran vs Smax - nevermind1

Yes, biggest issue with FRV is the boot really. Already struggle with the Civic in day to day life and that has a very similar capacity, so this feels like an opportunity to go the whole hog and kill a few different birds with one stone.

Thanks for the recs. Cmax ruled out on similar grounds to the Mazda 5, and tbh I don't like the look of them or the interior config compared to the others. Zafira is almost certainly the most sensible choice/value proposition, and won't rule out until I've been to see one in person, but I've just never been a fan of Vauxhalls, particurly the mpvs, hence not making the the list of three.

The Smax in manual with the 1.6 ecoboost is a good shout, unfortunately like you say they appear to be few and far between!

Citroen C4 Grand Picasso - Picasso Grand C4 vs Touran vs Smax - daveyK_UK
You want proper size seats in the 3rd row

Vauxhall combo life 7 seater is becoming a bit of a bargain for those who want a nearly new 7 seater where adults can sit in the 3rd row comfortably

You may get fortunate and find a 68 plate one with 40k miles plus £10k

Edited by daveyK_UK on 25/05/2021 at 18:54

Citroen C4 Grand Picasso - Picasso Grand C4 vs Touran vs Smax - nevermind1

Thanks. Third row actually only necessary for kid/s, so think will be fine. Checked out all the van-mpvs, and while good value I think they're not actually necessary and would prefer to go for at least a somewhat car-like experience.

Citroen C4 Grand Picasso - Picasso Grand C4 vs Touran vs Smax - SLO76
I think your choices are rather limited here. Me, I’d travel further and borrow more using a low rate bank loan from 3% APR and I’d buy a petrol S-Max or I’d take the 2.0 Diesel and simply do a regular run in it to keep the DPF sweet. It’s a great car and both engines are long lived if looked after correctly. Just avoid the Powershift auto at all costs.

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Edited by SLO76 on 25/05/2021 at 19:20

Citroen C4 Grand Picasso - Picasso Grand C4 vs Touran vs Smax - nevermind1

Yes you might be right. I think I at least have a pretty clear picture of what to look for (and avoid) in an smax now. The other option of course is the Touran. Having had a read, the 1.4 tsi (or even 1.2) looks fairly safe and potentially comes in on budget. DSG box seems to be reliant on previous owners maintenance mind, so maybe paired with a manual.

Citroen C4 Grand Picasso - Picasso Grand C4 vs Touran vs Smax - SLO76
Problems with the Touran are that it’s relatively rare and the earlier TSi petrols were rather notorious for timing chain issues, later cars switched to belts but I’m not 100% sure of when this happened, though I’d imagine the post 2015 models are all belt driven. I’d happily own a belt driven 1.4 TSi VAG product but I’d leave the fragile DSG gearbox well alone. The bulk of the few examples I can find that are post 2015 are 1.2’s and I’d imagine they’d struggle a bit with a full load of family and gear while the stronger 1.4 is rarer and dearer. Like for like I’d rather have the S-Max.

Edited by SLO76 on 25/05/2021 at 22:29

Citroen C4 Grand Picasso - Picasso Grand C4 vs Touran vs Smax - nevermind1

Thanks, again, all invaluable!

Edit - 2013 was roughly the chain/belt switchover according to honestjohn

Edited by nevermind1 on 25/05/2021 at 23:08

Citroen C4 Grand Picasso - Picasso Grand C4 vs Touran vs Smax - badbusdriver

The bulk of the few examples I can find that are post 2015 are 1.2’s and I’d imagine they’d struggle a bit with a full load of family and gear while the stronger 1.4 is rarer and dearer.

Personally, I don't think the 1.2 would struggle. But I guess expectations come into it, i.e, how much power and performance you are used to, along with how fast you drive. The reason I say this is because if dealing with a heavy load, having plenty of torque at low revs is much more useful and important than the BHP figure. And in this respect, the Touran 1.2TSI offers (IMO) plenty, at very low revs

If we look at everyones favourite (for reliability) compact MPV, the Toyota Verso. In (n/a) 1.6 form, this offers 132bhp against the Touran 1.2TSI's 105BHP, a sizeable difference in percentage terms, which may lead you to believe the Verso would be better fully laden. But look at the torque and it is a different story, with the Touran giving 175nm from 1550-4100rpm and the Verso managing 160nm, but not till way up at 4400rpm.

So while a Touran 1.2TSI may be some way short of an S Max turbo diesel for both power and torque, I really don't see it struggling as long as your expectations are in line with the fact that it isn't a fast or powerful car. Personally, I'd sooner have the Touran unless you actually need the extra space of the S Max, which is a fair chunk bigger, and I'd be absolutely fine with the 1.2TSI (unless towing a caravan or something!)

I drive a 2010 VW Caddy for my work, which as most will know, is based on the Touran. Mine has a 2.0 non turbo diesel which makes 70bhp and 140nm of torque @ 2200 rpm. I start each day with 400kg of water in the back, along with various other stuff. No, it isn't fast, but it manages just fine.

Citroen C4 Grand Picasso - Picasso Grand C4 vs Touran vs Smax - daveyK_UK
S Max ‘s and Tourans that look cheap for their age are often the automatics (powershift and DSG boxes), both should be avoided like the plague as it’s highly probable they will malfunction and it won’t be cheap to fix.