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An engine revving at a higher RPM compared to others at the same speed does not necessarily mean worse fuel economy. It can be a bit noisier though.
I recently had a Vauxhall Crossland hire car, which had the rather gutless base 1.0 litre non-turbocharged engine. It was revving at about 3500rpm at 70mph, but still did 50mpg, which is about the same as my wife's 1.2TSI Leon which is doing something like 2500rpm at the same speed.
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Thanks for your reply. About garages I were using Kwik Fit but it's dear and I felt ripped off couple of times and now I'm looking for small independent garages based on reviews from Google and whocanfixmycar.com. I'm living in Liverpool. I just bought Fiesta 2012 zetec 1.25 petrol with 40 000 miles on the clock and full service history plus 1 year Momentum warranty from a dealer. I'm noticing on the motorway needs more rpm but I'm looking for economy and I'm working it around 2500 rpm but sacrificing speed, around 55-60 mph. Its uncomfortable and embarrassing to see lorries overtaking me :).Did I make a good choice for a car?
If it was previously well cared for and driven sympathetically (that doesn't mean 'slow' or at low revs all the time [labouring the engine is bad for a car]), the that combination of car and engine should be fine to drive at 70mph on the motorway. My dad has owned two 1.25 Fiestas over the last 25 years, both giving decent service (he still owns a 08 plate one).
They should have no trouble keeping up with the other traffic/overtaking unless that traffic is already speeding by some margin, given the car has around 85PS in terms of power.
Given the time on the motorway appears to be very short (50 miles per working week equates to 5 miles each way per day, roughly one 'junction's worth' or 5 minutes), driving on the motorway at 70 shouldn't be an issue.
Yes, driving at 55-60 will give better mpg (depending on how much 'other roads' you drive on), perhaps by 10-15%, but from personal experience driving a (slower, less powerful) 1L Micra on similar roads, it's just not worth the risk from getting tailgated or sideswiped by larger vehicles just to save a few quid a week on fuel.
If you have problems with it significantly losing power in higher gears, then take it back to the garage under the warranty. With small-er engined cars, you can't expect to barrel up the rear of another vehicle in top gear, stick behind them then have oodles of power in that gear for overtaking.
Best to overtake earlier when further behind when there's a decent gap, so you use the overspeed in that maneuvre, hopefully not needing to drop a gear to overtake. It is also much safer.
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This is an odd one. When I saw this thread last night, I assumed it was someone looking for advice on what car to buy!. Now I see it is someone who has already bought a car but appears to be having second thoughts, which is perhaps bit late!.
Its uncomfortable and embarrassing to see lorries overtaking me :)
Really don't understand this?.
A, why are you embarrassed by being overtaken by a lorry?. If another vehicle, whatever it might be, is travelling faster than you, obviously it is going to overtake (certainly if on a motorway or dual carriageway), but I fail to see why that should make you either embarrassed or uncomfortable.
B, given it does make you embarrassed and uncomfortable when lorries overtake, speed up!.
I'm looking for economy and I'm working it around 2500 rpm but sacrificing speed, around 55-60 mph.
The mpg of your car is not directly determined by the rpm but by how far open the throttle is. So while on a level or downhill section of road pulling 2500rpm will see an increase in mpg over the same section at 3000rpm, but if you maintain that 2500rpm going uphill, you may find yourself using more fuel than if you changed down a gear. A 1.25 Fiesta, while a really sweet engine, is not exactly overburdened with torque, so I'm guessing it wouldn't require too steep a hill before changing down was more beneficial than staying in 5th at 55-60mph. I'm also wondering just how much more mpg you are getting by sticking to that speed rather than 65-70mph?. I'm assuming you have worked this out before deciding to dice with lorries at 55-60mph...............
Is small engine as 1.25 enough for the motorway?
You can't look at the car and determine whether or not is fast/powerful enough for your needs solely by its size, doesn't work like that. You say you have a 1.25 Fiesta, now most of those will have 81bhp, but the entry level 'Style' only has 59bhp. That is a big drop and would make for hard work on the motorway given the Fiesta is neither as small or light as it once was. But if you look at the Suzuki Swift 1.2 of the age £5k would get you, it has 93bhp. So that Swift has near enough 60% more power than the base Fiesta, with an engine of more or less the same size, and that is without considering small turbo engines, where a 1.0 may have well over 100bhp. So don't look at the engine size, look at the power.
My advice would be to up your speed by 10mph, which would make the engine speed more like 3000rpm. I'd be inclined to think that would be a more comfortable 'gait' for a small n/a engine than 2500rpm.
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Thank you all for the comprehensive answers. Since this is the second car in my life, and I do not have much experience in this field, I am still learning and will be so in the future. The truth is, I wanted to know what car choice you would make if you were me. After _ORB_ pointed to the Fiesta, I decided I wasn't wrong. The 1.2 or 1.4 petrol engine was also the advice of the last mechanic I was with my old Panda. Which, as I mentioned, left me on the motorway, and for which I feel guilty because I pushed it to the maximum and I believe that I "helped" the death of the engine. From that moment on, I'm very careful with the pressure, I lost confidence. I feel the slowest on the motorway, watching everyone coming behind me pass me. But economy and the worry of overloading the engine prevail. I was very pleased with the diesel engine, it was economical and at the same time more powerful than the current Fiesta (which by the way is 80 bhp, I apologize for not mentioning). But since I was advised against a diesel engine, due to the short driving distances, I took a petrol one. I still do not feel satisfaction with my purchase and I am already thinking about what to replace it with in the near future. Thanks again.
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Any properly maintained modern car such as your Panda can travel all day at 70. It’s very unlikely you damaged it by travelling at motorway speeds as long as it was maintained with the right oil for example and you acted on any dash warning lights and used the correct gears. Any car can break down but generally speaking motorway driving is not particularly stressful to most components.
As you say the issue is loss of confidence and maybe a bigger more relaxing car will help. Perhaps a Focus? But is it the car you have lost confidence in or your driving? Driving too slowly for the conditions can be very stressful and maybe you could try doing a few motorway trips at quiet times when you can cruise at 70 and get your confidence back.
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Thank you for your reply, catsdad. Usually I had my old Panda serviced every year but the one thing I believe I missed fixing was an yellow engine management light which appearing on the dashboard every time I accelerated as fast as I can, fully depressing the gas pedal at first, and after the light comes, losing momentum. Mechanic said its broken turbo but I thought I can drive without it and save around £500 bill.
As for the Fiesta, I didnt test drive it on motorway to feel and judge it better, which is mistake of mine again. What engine size and bhp for a petrol car is a better choice for more relaxed motorway driving, cruising with 70 mph at around 2000 rpm?
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As for the Fiesta, I didnt test drive it on motorway to feel and judge it better, which is mistake of mine again. What engine size and bhp for a petrol car is a better choice for more relaxed motorway driving, cruising with 70 mph at around 2000 rpm?
Obviously I'm not familiar with all the options out there, but I think you will really struggle to find a small, or smallish petrol car which will be pulling 2000rpm @ 70mph. You would need to be looking at a Golf sized car or bigger. Possibly a turbo petrol (with a 6 speed manual) might do 2000rpm @ 70mph, otherwise you'd need to get a diesel (also with a 6 speed manual), but your mileage doesn't warrant diesel, and it could easily come back to bite you with repair costs.
But lets be perfectly clear, a 1.25 80bhp Fiesta, is perfectly capable of travelling safely and comfortably well in excess of 70mph. The only issue here is that for no apparent reason, you have decided that if the engine is pulling more than 2500rpm you will destroy it, which is absolute nonsense!. The engine in your car produces its maximum power at 5800rpm and its maximum torque at 4000rpm, and I can categorically assure you that prolonged travelling at 3500-4000rpm will do no damage whatsoever. That engine was designed by Yamaha and is an absolute little belter, sweet, revvy and very reliable. Engines like that are not designed to be driven like a diesel (i.e, not going above 2500rpm), in fact I suspect you may cause problems doing so.
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"But lets be perfectly clear, a 1.25 80bhp Fiesta, is perfectly capable of travelling safely and comfortably well in excess of 70mph. The only issue here is that for no apparent reason, you have decided that if the engine is pulling more than 2500rpm you will destroy it, which is absolute nonsense!. The engine in your car produces its maximum power at 5800rpm and its maximum torque at 4000rpm, and I can categorically assure you that prolonged travelling at 3500-4000rpm will do no damage whatsoever. That engine was designed by Yamaha and is an absolute little belter, sweet, revvy and very reliable. Engines like that are not designed to be driven like a diesel (i.e, not going above 2500rpm), in fact I suspect you may cause problems doing so.
Thanks for your reply, but I'm bit confused - your last sentence contradicts the first above. After all, is it bad for the engine to be driven at over 2500 rpm?
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Thanks for your reply, but I'm bit confused - your last sentence contradicts the first above.
Sorry, I'm not seeing any contradiction in what I said(?), but I will attempt to clarify.
Most Diesel engines produce peak torque under 2000rpm and in most (but not all) cases, the power has been and gone by 3500-4000rpm. They are by nature, 'sloggers', and the gearing reflects this, so at a 70mph cruise, you will be pulling 2000rpm, maybe a little more. Turbo petrols are similar, in so far as peak torque happens quite low, but unlike diesels, the power band will be wider with useable power up to 5000rpm or more. So while its possible a turbo petrol (up to the size of a Golf) might be capable of pulling 2000rpm at a 70mph cruise, I suspect most will be pulling a little more revs as their gearing will reflect that wider and more useable power band.
Most small naturally aspirated petrol engines, like a Fiesta 1.25, are by their nature, revvy. The fact that peak torque, in your case, happens at 4000rpm tells you all you need to know about how the engine is designed to be driven. We used to have a Honda Jazz 1.3, peak torque on that was 5000rpm!. I recall years ago being told stories by old mechanics about how some older person had bought a car which they drove on minimum revs. They come back to the garage complaining about the car running rough, whereupon the mechanic would take the car out for a good 'thrashing' resulting in the car running fine again!. On reflection, with modern engine management and fuelling, it is unlikely that something similar could happen to your Fiesta!. But be in no doubt that travelling in your Fiesta for prolonged periods on a motorway (never mind the 50 miles per week you do) at 70mph, or even up to 80mph, will do no harm at all.
Another car we used to have was a 1.0 (68bhp) Daihatsu Sirion and it had absolutely no problem maintaining 75-80mph on dual carriageways or motorways. Going back even further, I once borrowed a Fiat Cinquencento from my work to travel from Wigan (where I lived at the time) to Aberdeenshire (where my family were) and back again one Christmas holiday. It had an 899cc engine making 41bhp and it was perfectly happy at 70mph.
is it bad for the engine to be driven at over 2500 rpm?
No!, which is pretty much my whole point!.
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As for the Fiesta, I didnt test drive it on motorway to feel and judge it better, which is mistake of mine again. What engine size and bhp for a petrol car is a better choice for more relaxed motorway driving, cruising with 70 mph at around 2000 rpm?
To get a petrol engine that cruises at 70 @ 2000rpm its probably going to be a 2 litre turbo. Seem to remember that the Volvo V60 we drove last year (2 litre turbo petrol 190 PS) was doing just under 2000 in 8th gear.
The wifes 1.0 TSi Fabia 110 PS is doing about 2300 rpm in 6th and the 1.4 TSi Superb iV does about 2200 rpm in 6th.
Prior to getting the VAG TSi's all the normally aspirated 5 speed petrols I had from 1984 to 2015 were doing about 3500 rpm at 70 mph. They ranged from a 1.2 litre Nissan Micra to a 1.8 litre VW Golf. All were happing cruising at 70 mph and considering several of them did large mileages on motorways not one of them had a single issue.
But move back to the 70's and I am unsure how you would have coped. One example is a 1600cc Chrysler Avenger, at 70 mph in 4th (all they had in those days) it was doing 4400 rpm yet survived many years in our house (dads car before I bought it) and gave good service after I sold it. One car I test drove, a Fiat 127 with the "sporty" spec, think it was a 1.3, and at 70 mph it was doing 5000 rpm. It was totally happy at those revs.
is it bad for the engine to be driven at over 2500 rpm?
Of course not, look where the red line is on your rev counter, probably north of 6000 rpm, you are not even at 1/2 revs at 2500.
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badbusdriver, I thought you meant that a petrol engine should not run like a diesel, with over 2500 rpm. My mistake, I did not understand correctly, I apologize for that! I can honestly say that I now feel calmer and more confident and I will fly without worries on the motorway! Thank you again.
Edited by Viktorkaleb on 25/04/2021 at 16:25
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badbusdriver, I thought you meant that a petrol engine should not run like a diesel, with over 2500 rpm. My mistake, I did not understand correctly, I apologize for that! I can honestly say that I now feel calmer and more confident and I will fly without worries on the motorway! Thank you again.
Diesels are also fine going over 2500 rpm. The BMW I had would cruise at just under 2000 rpm @70 mph but when needed would quite happily spin to almost 5000 rpm with no sudden drop off like many diesels.
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skidpan, thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience. Overall, I'm glad I found this forum and that I found the information and advice I needed. God bless the internet!
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Just also meant to add, that little Fiat diesel, despite its popularity, doesn't have the greatest reputation for reliability. With that in mind, I wouldn't be unduly dissapointed (or surprised) that it failed 130k miles, and secondly (because of that first point), don't assume its failure was due to the way you drove it, or indeed anything else you did or didn't do.
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I'm more angry with myself. I was supposed to use a Panda while I learned to drive. I bought it for £ 900, but due to sentimentality, or the fact that it was very economical, I kept it for 4 years, during which I invested a lot of money in service and repairs, advised by Kwik Fit :(
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"But lets be perfectly clear, a 1.25 80bhp Fiesta, is perfectly capable of travelling safely and comfortably well in excess of 70mph. The only issue here is that for no apparent reason, you have decided that if the engine is pulling more than 2500rpm you will destroy it, which is absolute nonsense!. The engine in your car produces its maximum power at 5800rpm and its maximum torque at 4000rpm, and I can categorically assure you that prolonged travelling at 3500-4000rpm will do no damage whatsoever. That engine was designed by Yamaha and is an absolute little belter, sweet, revvy and very reliable. Engines like that are not designed to be driven like a diesel (i.e, not going above 2500rpm), in fact I suspect you may cause problems doing so.
Thanks for your reply, but I'm bit confused - your last sentence contradicts the first above. After all, is it bad for the engine to be driven at over 2500 rpm?
No - it's bad for an engine to be laboured at low revs (different revs for diesel) or thrashed at the red line high revs. Cars like to have the full range of revs used from time to time (avoids power curve flat spots, clears it of gunk to some degree), for petrols engined cars roughly between 2000 and 5000 rpm is fine, better at the lower end for mpg.
My old 1L Micra was fine sitting at 70mph at 4000-4500 revs; my current 1.6L Mazda3 will do so at around 3500 revs (higher revving car than most) without significant penalty on fuel use (both cars only have 5 forward gears).
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No one seems to have spotted this - you were driving with a broken turbo but thought you’d save £500 by not fixing it...how did you think that would be ok? It’s surely cost you more for a new car but you shouldn’t be afraid to use what performance it has. Your Panda broke for specific reasons and you shouldn’t be so negligent in future but revving a healthy car isn’t on the whole going to damage it (as long as you don’t go into the red zone regularly)
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Scirocco, you are right, I learn from my mistakes.
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