My neighbour has a 2015 Phev, which has never been plugged in.
There were (are?) considerable tax advantages to having one as a company car. But not for actually charging it.
Since I retired, my annual mileage is so low that I suspect I'll be one of the last to move to electric power. A tank of petrol in my little mx-5 can be there a long time.
But aren’t you supposed to regularly plug in a phev to get the best out of them economy wise..?
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My neighbour has a 2015 Phev, which has never been plugged in.
There were (are?) considerable tax advantages to having one as a company car.
I never knew that. So HMG seriously encourages people to cart around umpteen kilos of unnecessary equipment? Such tax advantage absurdity only perpetuates the increasing absurdity of the existence of hybrids. With EVs ever increasing range and ease of charging I think this doomed branch of the automotive evolutionary tree will soon rot and fall off.
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Maybe in the future as the range, recharge times and infrastructure improves but for now the PHEV does meet some people's motoring requirements such as mine perfectly. I'm looking at the Evoque PHEV, it will be perfect for my needs with approximately 30 miles on a charge which is all I need for 90% of my trips but the reassurance of the petrol engine for longer trips to visit family in London and further afield. I can easily keep the vehicle plugged in as I have a driveway. I just wish I had more confidence in LR reliability.
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My neighbour has a 2015 Phev, which has never been plugged in.
There were (are?) considerable tax advantages to having one as a company car.
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But aren’t you supposed to regularly plug in a phev to get the best out of them economy wise..?
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I never knew that. So HMG seriously encourages people to cart around umpteen kilos of unnecessary equipment? Such tax advantage absurdity only perpetuates the increasing absurdity of the existence of hybrids. With EVs ever increasing range and ease of charging I think this doomed branch of the automotive evolutionary tree will soon rot and fall off.
Specifically this is something referred to as 'benefits in kind' (BIK). And the financial savings of going for one over an ICE car are large!. Hence you get company car users who choose a PHEV when they know they either can't (or just can't be bothered), charging them up. Because the BIK savings are more than enough to offset the extra fuel used by not charging them up, and yes, it is crazy!.
I guess it is a bit like the loophole which saw heaps and heaps of folk buying a double cab pickup a decade or so ago, something about them being able to claim back the VAT. Not sure, but I think that particular loophole has been closed up.
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a PHEV when they know they either can't (or just can't be bothered), charging them up. Because the BIK savings are more than enough to offset the extra fuel used by not charging them up, and yes, it is crazy!.
Cannot be bothered hits the nail on the head. The same with EV. Who wants to bother plugging these things in for limited range in all weathers and getting your hands dirty. Same with EV hunting down chargers with different prices and APPs some not working or occupied and then hanging around for the thing to charge. I just do not think that the average family man is buying these things, they are just not practical for most. How many car users living on say a council estate or living in a terrace has one or wants one or can afford one?
I wonder if the company car or car allowance as a perk is on the way out because of working from home?
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I had a Mercedes GLC phev as a loan car. It did around 35 on electric then the 1.3 petrol cut in. Made me think the engine wasn't powerful enough for the largish car...told it was a Renault engine. I know little about PHEVs but would prefer the absence of range anxiety over pure EV.
I think you might be getting your Mercs mixed up. As far as I can see from various websites including this one and Mercedes themselves, the GLC hybrid uses a 2.0 turbo petrol (or a 2.0 turbo diesel). The petrol version makes 211bhp on its own, the diesel makes 194bhp and the electric motor adds 122bhp in both cases.
The Mercedes GLA on the other hand, does use the 1.3 turbo petrol shared with Renault. As to it being underpowered?. Well my Dad used to have a Ford Granada estate (MK2), it had a 2.8 litre V6 and made 135bhp. The 1.3 turbo Merc/Renault unit makes 160bhp (on its own, the electric motor adds 102bhp) and 184lb/ft of torque (at 1720rpm) when fitted to the GLA hybrid, so I can't see it struggling very much unless being driven by one J Clarkson.
Edited by badbusdriver on 11/04/2021 at 10:11
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Cannot be bothered hits the nail on the head. The same with EV. Who wants to bother plugging these things in for limited range in all weathers and getting your hands dirty.
It is absolutely not the same thing at all with an EV!, what a ridiculous statement to make!. A PHEV will still run if the owner can't be bothered charging it, an EV won't. It is actually about as far from being the same thing as its possible to get.
And do you really think plugging in an EV to charge it up is going to make your hands dirtier than using a petrol or diesel pump?. If so, I'd sure like to know where you are filling up, because I invariably end up with hands stinking of diesel wherever I fill my van up. Also, when filling an ICE vehicle up, you have to stand outside in all weathers. If charging an EV, you can sit inside where it is nice, warm and sheltered, playing games on the infotainment or watching a film.
I just do not think that the average family man is buying these things
That is stating the obvious, if the average family man was buying an EV, the sales of EV's would be higher than ICE cars.
Same with EV hunting down chargers with different prices and APPs some not working or occupied and then hanging around for the thing to charge. How many car users living on say a council estate or living in a terrace has one or wants one or can afford one?
Not relevant. New ICE cars are not going to banned till 2030, and even then, ICE will still be allowed on our roads. Assuming they do actually ban ICE cars (and I'm not convinced they will), that aint going to happen for at least 5 years after that, possibly more. If, by the late 2020's there are still not enough charging points for the amount of EV's on the road, that is when this particular point will be relevant.
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I wonder whether manufacturers are giving us the right balance of ICE and EV in a hybrid.
Typically the ICE is the dominant power source. Electric only kicks in for a limited range and typically with limited power.
Changing the balance so that the ICE generates much lower power only to charge the battery at motorway speeds (say 40-60bhp) and have a more powerful electric motor to provide acceleration and hill climb ability would:
- need no additional battery capacity
- allow much lighter weight ICE
Taken to a logical conclusion the ICE would simply become an onboard generating pack. Design complexity would be much lower, and efficiency much higher than a normal ICE as it could operate with a constant load at a constant speed.
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I wonder whether manufacturers are giving us the right balance of ICE and EV in a hybrid.
Typically the ICE is the dominant power source. Electric only kicks in for a limited range and typically with limited power.
Changing the balance so that the ICE generates much lower power only to charge the battery at motorway speeds (say 40-60bhp) and have a more powerful electric motor to provide acceleration and hill climb ability would:
- need no additional battery capacity
- allow much lighter weight ICE
Taken to a logical conclusion the ICE would simply become an onboard generating pack. Design complexity would be much lower, and efficiency much higher than a normal ICE as it could operate with a constant load at a constant speed.
The current Honda Jazz works largely like that.
ICE power only at high speeds, rest of time electric power drives the wheels, the engine charges the battery.
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I wonder whether manufacturers are giving us the right balance of ICE and EV in a hybrid.
Typically the ICE is the dominant power source. Electric only kicks in for a limited range and typically with limited power.
This is not what I am observing in practice. In our Toyota hybrid, the electric motors provide traction on a continuous basis. The ICE runs intermittently, either to support the electric motors, or to juice up the battery again (working as a generator). From what I can see, the electrical system is the primary means of propulsion, the ICE is secondary. PHEV only serve to tip the balance of power further towards the electric and away from ICE.
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Not relevant. New ICE cars are not going to banned till 2030, and even then, ICE will still be allowed on our roads. Assuming they do actually ban ICE cars (and I'm not convinced they will), that aint going to happen for at least 5 years after that, possibly more. If, by the late 2020's there are still not enough charging points for the amount of EV's on the road, that is when this particular point will be relevant.
What a ridiculous statement to make yourself. Everyone knows this and yes I do know the difference between a PHEV and an EV. Garages I fill up with have a nice canopy to shelter under
BBD who upset you this morning, if you cannot come on here and have a perfectly reasonable comment torn apart because you disagree what hope is there
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I wonder whether manufacturers are giving us the right balance of ICE and EV in a hybrid.
Typically the ICE is the dominant power source. Electric only kicks in for a limited range and typically with limited power.
This is not what I am observing in practice. In our Toyota hybrid, the electric motors provide traction on a continuous basis. The ICE runs intermittently, either to support the electric motors, or to juice up the battery again (working as a generator). From what I can see, the electrical system is the primary means of propulsion, the ICE is secondary. PHEV only serve to tip the balance of power further towards the electric and away from ICE.
When I drove a new RAV4 last October over about 30 minutes and 20 miles the display was showing the 1.3 kW battery about 70% charged. Over those 20 miles I would say the IC engine was running 90% of the time, the only time it reverted to battery only was downhill or approaching a junction. According to the dash over those 20 miles it averaged 37 mpg which I thought to be poor considering the hype.
Immediately after the test drive I did the exact same route in the 1.4 TSi Superb which was an ICE vehicle. According to the dash (which I know to be pretty accurate) it averaged 45 mpg over those 20 miles which again took about 30 minutes.
To me the self charging technology achieved nothing. Its why we bought a PHEV Superb. One day I will do that route in the Superb to see if it is an improvement over the ICE car.
Regarding people not charging PHEV cars we had 2 staff member at my previous company that chose Mitsubishi PHEV's because of the tax advantages and the company was more than happy since it was advantageous to them as well. Neither plugged the cars in, they drove g=big petrol SUV's doing about 30 mpg.
We are trying to maximise the advantage of the PHEV as much as possible and have to say doing the shopping and other short runs the electric only aspect is brilliant. On the longer (70 mile round trip) runs we have done so far with the car in Hybrid mode its clearly doing better than the ICE Superb. What its like on a 430 mile run I will tell you next month if Nicola allows us into Scotland.
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I had a Mercedes GLC phev as a loan car. It did around 35 on electric then the 1.3 petrol cut in. Made me think the engine wasn't powerful enough for the largish car...told it was a Renault engine. I know little about PHEVs but would prefer the absence of range anxiety over pure EV.
I think you might be getting your Mercs mixed up. As far as I can see from various websites including this one and Mercedes themselves, the GLC hybrid uses a 2.0 turbo petrol (or a 2.0 turbo diesel). The petrol version makes 211bhp on its own, the diesel makes 194bhp and the electric motor adds 122bhp in both cases.
The Mercedes GLA on the other hand, does use the 1.3 turbo petrol shared with Renault. As to it being underpowered?. Well my Dad used to have a Ford Granada estate (MK2), it had a 2.8 litre V6 and made 135bhp. The 1.3 turbo Merc/Renault unit makes 160bhp (on its own, the electric motor adds 102bhp) and 184lb/ft of torque (at 1720rpm) when fitted to the GLA hybrid, so I can't see it struggling very much unless being driven by one J Clarkson.
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You are right, I have got the GLA/C bit wrong, I stand corrected.
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