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Just reread the OP posts and missed the elephant in the room
He's adding 5 litres every 500 miles???
Considering the engine has a service fill (inc oil filter) of only 4.6 litres this must be a misprint. Even if you drained the oil completely, changed the oil filter it woukd only take 4.6 litres to the full mark on the dipstick.
Stupid question, how is the OP filling and measuring oil level?
Is it 0.5litres he's adding?
Engine would be toast by now if what he said was true.
Edited by brum on 26/03/2021 at 22:10
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Not a misprint but as I said further down, I'm not adding five litres every 500 miles. I am buying a five litre can every 500 miles and get through it.
I added 3 litres a fortnight ago, it measured correctly in between min and max on the dipstick but then the warning light came on after 300 miles. So I added the other two litres to get it back to an adequate level.
Weirdly, despite there obviously being something significant wrong, the engine hasn't shown any signs of a problem. It just passed its MOT too.
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Weirdly, despite there obviously being something significant wrong, the engine hasn't shown any signs of a problem. It just passed its MOT too.
You'd think an engine making that much oil disappear would fail on emissions - that's about the only engine aspect the MoT takes notice of.
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You'd think an engine making that much oil disappear would fail on emissions - that's about the only engine aspect the MoT takes notice of.
That's why I mentioned crankcase breathing. When I had this issue on my old Octavia (different petrol engine!) - it put the low oil low light on on a single journey from Yorkshire to Hampshire. Fixed when I sorted blocked oil breather.
During MOT there probably isn't time for crankcase pressure to cause an issue.
Edited by Big John on 27/03/2021 at 00:00
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I added 3 litres a fortnight ago, it measured correctly in between min and max on the dipstick but then the warning light came on after 300 miles. So I added the other two litres to get it back to an adequate level.
If you know that the engine has significant oil usage why don't you check the oil level instead of waiting for the "idiot" light.
Having owned 8 VAG cars over the years (inc. 3 Skodas) none have had oil level warning lights, only low oil pressure light. If its that you are seeing on a regular basis the engine is likely to have suffered severe damage by now.
Highest oil consumption I have experienced was a pint every 200 miles in a 70's Avenger. Probably the valve guides, had the head off and the bores were fine and we changed the valve stem seals but it made no difference. It soldiered on for many more years with no work carried out by the next owner, like me he simply added oil regularly rather than waiting for the "idiot" light.
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Having owned 8 VAG cars over the years (inc. 3 Skodas) none have had oil level warning lights, only low oil pressure light. If its that you are seeing on a regular basis the engine is likely to have suffered severe damage by now.
Not sure it's correct for all versions but all three of my Skodas have had a low oil level indicator (orange oil can light) and low oil pressure indicator (red oil can light + audible warning).
[Edit] Checked manual of my 2014 mkII Skoda Superb
Orange oil can light - Maxi dot display "Check oil level!"
Flashing orange oil can light - Maxi dot display "oil sensor: Workshop"
Flashing red oil can light - Maxi dot display "Oil Pressure" - even if oil level is correct do not drive any further
Edited by Big John on 27/03/2021 at 09:54
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Having owned 8 VAG cars over the years (inc. 3 Skodas) none have had oil level warning lights, only low oil pressure light. If its that you are seeing on a regular basis the engine is likely to have suffered severe damage by now.
Not sure it's correct for all versions but all three of my Skodas have had a low oil level indicator (orange oil can light) and low oil pressure indicator (red oil can light + audible warning).
[Edit] Checked manual of my 2014 mkII Skoda Superb
Orange oil can light - Maxi dot display "Check oil level!"
Flashing orange oil can light - Maxi dot display "oil sensor: Workshop"
Flashing red oil can light - Maxi dot display "Oil Pressure" - even if oil level is correct do not drive any further
Just looked at the manual regarding lights and as you say it seems that the warning comes up in the Maxidot display. Will have a closer look at the dash next time I am in the car. Provided they all go off and stay off that is all I am bothered about.
Orange or red is pretty pointless for me since I am colour blind.
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Not a misprint but as I said further down, I'm not adding five litres every 500 miles. I am buying a five litre can every 500 miles and get through it.
Sorry, can't see the difference, assuming your oil can doesn't leak, and no one is stealing from it.
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I added 3 litres a fortnight ago, it measured correctly in between min and max on the dipstick but then the warning light came on after 300 miles. So I added the other two litres to get it back to an adequate level.
Well that answers my "Is there a dipstick?" question, which seems to rule out the faulty sensor theory. What was the measured oil level by the dipstick when the warning light came on?
Did you give the oil time to settle before measurement?
Edited by edlithgow on 29/03/2021 at 08:12
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This is an interesting problem and here's an interesting thread......
www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/414246-18-tsi-high-o.../
...and quite a long one. It mentions two things I would try. The first is remove the plugs, pour in some diesel - about an eggcup-full I would think, leave overnight, then spin the engine on the starter to disperse it before putting the plugs in. If by any chance any hadn't trickled past the rings you don't want a hydrolock. Thinking about it, I would use thinners, as they are more volatile and more likely to dissolve any blockage.
The second thing, after you have tried the first, is to give it a work-out. When nicely warmed up, drive along in low gear with the revs at or near the 'red line' for a bit. This might help loosen up jammed piston rings. Apparently a poster on this thread had success with this.
Do please let us know if any of this helped. If all fails, I suppose an extra 4p per mile or so on top of fuel cost is better than a loss of a couple of thousand pounds.
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...and quite a long one. It mentions two things I would try. The first is remove the plugs, pour in some diesel - about an eggcup-full I would think, leave overnight, then spin the engine on the starter to disperse it before putting the plugs in. If by any chance any hadn't trickled past the rings you don't want a hydrolock. Thinking about it, I would use thinners, as they are more volatile and more likely to dissolve any blockage.
Interesting - the first thing mentioned re an eggcup full of diesel - is what was suggested to me - decades ago. I think plus gas worked better than diesel.
I'd avoid thinners - just in case it dissolves something important such as a seal or o-ring - might be ok but myself I wouldn't risk it.
Edited by Big John on 29/03/2021 at 21:47
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This is an interesting problem and here's an interesting thread......
www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/414246-18-tsi-high-o.../
...and quite a long one. It mentions two things I would try. The first is remove the plugs, pour in some diesel - about an eggcup-full I would think, leave overnight, then spin the engine on the starter to disperse it before putting the plugs in. If by any chance any hadn't trickled past the rings you don't want a hydrolock. Thinking about it, I would use thinners, as they are more volatile and more likely to dissolve any blockage.
The second thing, after you have tried the first, is to give it a work-out. When nicely warmed up, drive along in low gear with the revs at or near the 'red line' for a bit. This might help loosen up jammed piston rings. Apparently a poster on this thread had success with this.
Do please let us know if any of this helped. If all fails, I suppose an extra 4p per mile or so on top of fuel cost is better than a loss of a couple of thousand pounds.
No harm in repeating that suggestion, though it was already posted by Big John, see also my counter suggestion to use brake fluid.
A possible follow-up would be to use water during your Italian Decoke-a. I had an IV rigged to suck water into the intake at high revs for a while, but I took it off for inspection and havn't so far reinstated it.
Water is known to be effective in decoking cylinders, but I dunno to what extent it'll get to the oil control rings and I'd think probably not much
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Another part of a work-around (as opposed to repair) consideration might be to use more suitable oil. I havn't checked, but OEM recommendation is likely to be something skinny, with a lot of viscosity modifier in it., say 5W30 or even 0W30 or 0W20.
These skinny oils are specified for fuel economy.
As well as leaking faster, the high VM content is likely to gum up rings when the synthetic rubbery stuff breaks down.
IF I had such an engine (unlikely since VAG cars dont last long here in Taiwan) I'd seriously consider putting straight SAE40 in it. That's probably not a winter option in the UK, where I;d consider something like Mobil Delvac MX 15W40.
Long term, though, anything short of a repair and rebuild seems likely to kill the catalyst.
Edited by edlithgow on 30/03/2021 at 05:52
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Another part of a work-around (as opposed to repair) consideration might be to use more suitable oil. I havn't checked, but OEM recommendation is likely to be something skinny, with a lot of viscosity modifier in it., say 5W30 or even 0W30 or 0W20.
These skinny oils are specified for fuel economy.
As well as leaking faster, the high VM content is likely to gum up rings when the synthetic rubbery stuff breaks down.
IF I had such an engine (unlikely since VAG cars dont last long here in Taiwan) I'd seriously consider putting straight SAE40 in it. That's probably not a winter option in the UK, where I;d consider something like Mobil Delvac MX 15W40.
Long term, though, anything short of a repair and rebuild seems likely to kill the catalyst.
You don't want to be doing this.
The thinner oils are specified to help fuel economy but there is also far more to it. Gone are the days of one oil is suitable for all cars, manufacturers have their own specs and these develop over time.
They are critically important for the reliability of the emissions kit fitted to the car. using the wrong spec will shorten the life of this expensive to sort equipment. If its a diesel and its fitted with a DPF low SAPS oil (normally C1, C2 or C3 spec) is essential to prolong the life of the DPF.
With modern tolerances the older thicker oils would not get to the important bits of an engine fast enough to prevent wear during the critical cold start period. And since the oil pumps are designed to pump the thinner oil that would be another issue.
Manufacturers do know a thing or 2 about their engines, far more than a bloke suggesting you use strait 40 grade in a modern engine.
Your engine may be exhibiting signs of wear but if you want ti kill it follow the advice above.
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Manufacturers do know a thing or 2 about their engines, far more than a bloke suggesting you use strait 40 grade in a modern engine.
metropolitan.fi/entry/magazine-uncovers-reason-for...n
According to the Finnish research quoted above, there is at least one manufacturer which doesn't know enough and doesn't admit it has sold a faulty design.
Not the first time they have been guilty.
Edited by galileo on 30/03/2021 at 11:59
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Pretty sure that the engines in that link have been out of production for years. Even then not every engine made was affected, if it was pistons rings alone they all would.
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EA888 gen2 1.8/2.0tsi are the engines affected.
Many owners have run them on VAG's 2yr/20,000 mile regime, used the wrong oil, 502 instead of 504. Lease or PCP my not even get oil changed at all, as many returned have false or missed history that certain dealers will just ignore. Seen first hand how a main dealer salesman insisted that a first service (just oil and filter) at 26,000 miles/3 years was full main dealer service history. Seen how they use the wrong oil all the time.
As the OP has observed using a thicker grade oil increases oil consumption as flow through the rings is lower.
Certain "experts" on a certain skoda forum even insist that older spec 502 oil is better than the correct 504 spec oil and thicker grades are better, all BS turned into myth that people follow blindly. Can't be challenged because you'll get abuse dished out. All because they once owned a problem Skoda, which they never fixed. They don't understand that oil flow is more important than pressure, to cool, clean as well as lubricate.
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Certain "experts" on a certain skoda forum
Its those people that made me decide to give up on the Skoda Forum. When one member chipped his Superb to over 400 bhp I asked him about the gearbox and how would it last considering the toque his chipped engine supposedly had was greater than the capacity of the gearbox. His reply was basically its under warranty and on a PCP they can sort it. I asked what would happen when it inevitably failed when the next buyer owned it and that reply drove me away, he simply said it would be their problem, he was not bothered. I have always looked after my cars and hope that long after I sell them on they are still giving subsequent owners good reliable service. The clearly have no conscience.
At the time I hoped the box failed whilst the poster owned the car and that Skoda and the PCP company (probably VAG Finance) refused to pay.
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EA888 gen2 1.8/2.0tsi are the engines affected.
Many owners have run them on VAG's 2yr/20,000 mile regime, used the wrong oil, 502 instead of 504. Lease or PCP my not even get oil changed at all, as many returned have false or missed history that certain dealers will just ignore.
Indeed - I bought my 2014 Skoda Superb EA111 1.4 at 14 months old from a Skoda main dealer , 14k miles which technically wasn't due a service. I insisted on a service before purchase and asked for the car to be changed from longlife to fixed servicing (every 9500 miles). Now 92k miles , sounds a sweet as the day it was bought and negligible oil consumption.
Edited by Big John on 30/03/2021 at 23:16
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Another part of a work-around (as opposed to repair) consideration might be to use more suitable oil. I havn't checked, but OEM recommendation is likely to be something skinny, with a lot of viscosity modifier in it., say 5W30 or even 0W30 or 0W20.
These skinny oils are specified for fuel economy.
As well as leaking faster, the high VM content is likely to gum up rings when the synthetic rubbery stuff breaks down.
IF I had such an engine (unlikely since VAG cars dont last long here in Taiwan) I'd seriously consider putting straight SAE40 in it. That's probably not a winter option in the UK, where I;d consider something like Mobil Delvac MX 15W40.
Long term, though, anything short of a repair and rebuild seems likely to kill the catalyst.
You don't want to be doing this.
The thinner oils are specified to help fuel economy but there is also far more to it. Gone are the days of one oil is suitable for all cars, manufacturers have their own specs and these develop over time.
They are critically important for the reliability of the emissions kit fitted to the car. using the wrong spec will shorten the life of this expensive to sort equipment. If its a diesel and its fitted with a DPF low SAPS oil (normally C1, C2 or C3 spec) is essential to prolong the life of the DPF.
With modern tolerances the older thicker oils would not get to the important bits of an engine fast enough to prevent wear during the critical cold start period. And since the oil pumps are designed to pump the thinner oil that would be another issue.
Manufacturers do know a thing or 2 about their engines, far more than a bloke suggesting you use strait 40 grade in a modern engine.
Your engine may be exhibiting signs of wear but if you want ti kill it follow the advice above.
Of course you don't want to be doing that, BUT the context is apparently owning something that is broken by design.but not acknowledged as such by the designer.
You don't want to be doing THAT either
In such a context, one is pretty much on one's own, and I'd be even more inclined to take manufacturer recommendations with quite a lot of sceptical seasoning.
In the case of THIS manufacturer, shovel fulls of it.
DPF is evidently not relevant to this case, but the oil consumption (on recommended oil) as described is likely to kill the emissions equipment (i.e. the catalytic converter) in short order.
The "modern tolerances" stuff gets trotted out regularly, but its largely an unsupported assertion. If one looks at the actual bearing clearances (which is what is usually meant, though that isn't what "tolerances" means) of older and newer vehicles its quite hard to see any systematic differences, nor have I seen any actual evidence that thicker oils starve the parts that thinner oils reach.
Just to be clear, I'm not telling the OP to use straight 40 in the UK. I'm saying, and specifically said, that, were I in the unfortunate position to own such an engine here in Taiwan, I would probably try it, because it might help, and I would consider I didn't have much to lose.
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Just to be clear, I'm not telling the OP to use straight 40 in the UK
So what did you mean by the following comment?
IF I had such an engine (unlikely since VAG cars dont last long here in Taiwan) I'd seriously consider putting straight SAE40 in it. That's probably not a winter option in the UK, where I;d consider something like Mobil Delvac MX 15W40.
Did you mean change to strait 40 oil in winter to Mobil Delvac MX15w40 or use it all year round. But I have just had a look at the specs for this oil, its a diesel oil that seems to be aimed at commercials, no VAG approvals.
You are crazy recommending that the OP uses such an unsuitable oil.
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Just to be clear, I'm not telling the OP to use straight 40 in the UK
So what did you mean by the following comment?
IF I had such an engine (unlikely since VAG cars dont last long here in Taiwan) I'd seriously consider putting straight SAE40 in it. That's probably not a winter option in the UK, where I;d consider something like Mobil Delvac MX 15W40.
Did you mean change to strait 40 oil in winter to Mobil Delvac MX15w40 or use it all year round. But I have just had a look at the specs for this oil, its a diesel oil that seems to be aimed at commercials, no VAG approvals.
You are crazy recommending that the OP uses such an unsuitable oil.
Again with the "recommend" jive?
I said that's what I would probably do, IF I had such an engine
(If you like, because I'm a wild and crazy guy, I doubt VAG approvals are worth a damn in this context, and I would consider I had little to lose, because I would already have a broken engine.
As I understand it this condition progresses to scored cylinder bores, so I doubt thick oil is going to make it very much worse.'The additional detergent loading in a dual spec oil MIGHT help free up the rings.)
Most of the above probably doesnt apply to the OP. I assume he has, or had, some faith in VAG otherwise he wouldn't have bought one, so it could hardly be considered a recommendation for him.
This was before I saw the suggestion that more oil flow through the oil control rings kept them free so, er...more is less. Hadn't thought of that or previously heard it suggested.
I dunno if there is evidence for this, but it is a theory as to how skinny oil could reduce oil loss. Likewise I dunno what the evidence is against the reports of thicker oil helping.
Without evidence, its a tis/tisn't. You pays yer money and you takes yer choice.
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The OP has already stated that the thinner oil "seems" to go longer before the oil level warning light comes on.
Viscosity dictates how quickly oil can be forced through a narrow opening for a constant pressure and temperature. I've a feeling thats something to do with the definition of the word viscosity. That also affects local cooling (if inadequate leads to oil oxidation and breakdown further blocking the ring) Low/No flow means detergents cant clean anything fast enough to prevent carbon being baked solid.
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The OP has already stated that the thinner oil "seems" to go longer before the oil level warning light comes on.
Viscosity dictates how quickly oil can be forced through a narrow opening for a constant pressure and temperature. I've a feeling thats something to do with the definition of the word viscosity. That also affects local cooling (if inadequate leads to oil oxidation and breakdown further blocking the ring) Low/No flow means detergents cant clean anything fast enough to prevent carbon being baked solid.
No disrespect to the OP, but as I already said, I wouldn't consider his "seems" a definitive data point. If you do, I'd suggest there might be a bit of confirmation bias at work.
I can, now you've mentioned it, see how your "skinny oil leaks less" theory could be valid in a particular case, which I'd already conceded.
It is, however, counter-intuitive and unconventional, since thick oil generally leaks less, as pointed out below. That doesn't mean its wrong, but it does mean I'd want to see some evidence before I accepted it as fact.
Against it, skinny oil has a higher VM loading, especially compared with a straight SAE40, which NO ONE will be using, and which has none. VM degradation products are known to clog rings.
Also against it is the fact that these engines apparently show the problem on skinny oil, unless you think that is all down to use of non-approved thicker oils. Again, evidence would be required.
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I dont see the controversy here, the advice to use a heavier oil when an engine gets worn to reduce oil consumption is as old as the hills! That is Edlithgows point from my reading. Obviously we cant go too thick compared to older engine designs, if it has variable valve timing etc the passage ways might be too narrow, but look in your handbook, you will see a range of approved viscosities, use the heaviest one they mention.
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I dont see the controversy here, the advice to use a heavier oil when an engine gets worn to reduce oil consumption is as old as the hills! That is Edlithgows point from my reading. Obviously we cant go too thick compared to older engine designs, if it has variable valve timing etc the passage ways might be too narrow, but look in your handbook, you will see a range of approved viscosities, use the heaviest one they mention.
Except we are not talking about a worn or leaking engine, but a specific problem of blocked oil rings (due to poor design) its a known issue on EA888 gen 2 engines.
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I dont see the controversy here, the advice to use a heavier oil when an engine gets worn to reduce oil consumption is as old as the hills! That is Edlithgows point from my reading. Obviously we cant go too thick compared to older engine designs, if it has variable valve timing etc the passage ways might be too narrow, but look in your handbook, you will see a range of approved viscosities, use the heaviest one they mention.
Except we are not talking about a worn or leaking engine, but a specific problem of blocked oil rings (due to poor design) its a known issue on EA888 gen 2 engines.
Which is likely to lead to a worn engine with scored cylinder bores.
If you develop that "specific problem" on approved skinny oil, it seems a fair bet that approved skinny oil isn't going to fix it. Your options are then fix it by replacing the rings, cleaning them with a piston soak, and/or living with it for as long as practical.
Thicker oil MIGHT let you live with it for a bit longer.
Edited by edlithgow on 02/04/2021 at 01:47
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Here are some other blokes on the internyet who think that VAG approval can be dispensed with in extreme cases.
hp.net.au/home/engine-oil-modified-vwaudiskoda/
"However, the moment you modify your engine beyond Stage 1 or 2, take your VW approvals and cross them out! The oil specifications no longer relate to how the car is being used and cannot be relied on."
In these extreme cases the engines have been modified by the operators rather than broken by the builder, but the "cannot be relied on" principle seems similar.
The thickest approved oil they recommend is 8100 X-cess 5W40 VW Approval 502/505 – HTHS (High Temperature High Shear) viscosity of 3.7
The thickest NON approved oil they recommend is 300V Le Mans 20W60 – HTHS 6.3
Crazy, huh?
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