N/A - Stability control

Honest John Back Room » Motoring discussion
What is life like with your car? Let us know and win £500 in John Lewis vouchers | No thanks
View Threaded
Thu 28 Jan 2021 17:07
N/A - Stability control - galileo

Filling the odd half hour browsing YouTube, I have noticed multiple clips where a sudden steering move to avoid a slow/stopped car or obstruction results in a sequence of alternating left/right swerves and a crash into the barriers.

Now it seems that stability control programs were built into ABS systems and mandatory on new cars since 2011 in Canada, 2012 in the US and 2014 in Europe.

Given these were originally supposed to cope with the 'Elk test', why do these losses of control occur with relatively less extreme manoeuvres?

Is it due to drivers reacting incorrectly? (Watching Touring?Car races I've seen cars nudged sideways and recovered from 45 degrees to direction of travel).

Edited by galileo on 28/01/2021 at 17:08

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Thu 28 Jan 2021 18:50
N/A - Stability control - mcb100
The first thing a driver racing FWD cars learns is when it goes sideways, full power and let the front tyres pull the car straight. That’s not stability control, that’s driver input.
Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Thu 28 Jan 2021 19:07
N/A - Stability control - galileo
The first thing a driver racing FWD cars learns is when it goes sideways, full power and let the front tyres pull the car straight. That’s not stability control, that’s driver input.

Exactly so, it helps that the Touring cars have ample power to do that, which most ordinary road cars don't.

Back in the 60s and 70s I had a few sessions on the skidpan at Tockwith in North Yorkshire, all rear wheel drive cars though, valuable experience for the snow we got every winter then, rarely get any now, when we do I use an empty carpark to check the handling of my front-drive car (only at low-ish speeds!)

Edited by galileo on 28/01/2021 at 19:08

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Thu 28 Jan 2021 20:20
N/A - Stability control - mcb100
I’ve not seen the videos you’re looking at, but the real advantage of active safety features is that they will react more quickly than the driver following unexpected events.
If a driver know an elk is about to stroll out, and that they’re going to have to react accordingly, there may be a ‘tank slapper’ because the driver’s actions are fighting the actions of the stability control. The best option in that case would be to let go of everything and let it sort itself out....
Lapping the wet grip circuit at MIRA a few years ago in various AMG’s, it was really difficult not to apply opposite lock as the rear started to slide and let the electronics sort it all out. If I had got caught out on a greasy roundabout, however, it would have taken me longer to react to the surprising oversteer and ESP would have intervened first.
Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Fri 29 Jan 2021 10:47
N/A - Stability control - daveyjp

An unexpected event happening to an ordinary driver is far different to expert drivers racing around a track where colliisions and close shaves are part of the job.

Instinct and reactions take over for the ordinary driver, not rational thought. First instinct is to avoid the obstruction, turn the wheel, physics takes control and not the driver.

There are plenty of vids of Nerburgring crashes featuring amateurs who aren't driving that quickly but realising they can't defeat physics.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Sat 30 Jan 2021 20:53
N/A - Stability control - focussed

Some interesting moose test videos - swerving around an imaginary obstruction.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tsqg1ZX-i1Q

www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoHbn8-ROiQ

www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaYFLb8WMGM

(Watch the Cherokee burst it's LH front tyre on each test)

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Sat 30 Jan 2021 22:07
N/A - Stability control - galileo
This clip shows a swerve which doesn't look too violent yet results in loss of control.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcyRCeuQ5gw&ab_channel...t.

This is part 5 of 'Worlds worst drivers in cars 2020, parts 6 and 7have more examples.

These are the incidents which prompted my original post. Naturally, the 'Elk tests' would be carried out by experienced test drivers, which would have some influence on the results?

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Sat 30 Jan 2021 22:37
N/A - Stability control - focussed

Even test drivers have difficulty controlling some of the cars when they start cavorting about, wheels of the ground, on two wheels etc.

The results with ordinary drivers don't bear thinking about.

The first clip of your video looks like a rear tyre problem to me, over/under inflated no grip when sliding sideways, no black marks on the road etc

Apart from a loose nut behind the steering wheel of course.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Sun 31 Jan 2021 12:20
N/A - Stability control - Zippy123
but the real advantage of active safety features is that they will react more quickly than the driver following unexpected events.

Agreed, though it's hard to go back to a car without.

My last car had active radar brakes. I was on a motorway junction roundabout when a car raced on to the roundabout without stopping. The car stopped and put on the hazard lights before I had got my foot to the brake pedal.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link