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Where’s the joy? - SLO76
Wee conversation at work regarding past motoring ownership brought a sad realisation to me. I’ve never really owned a car that I truly loved. I’ve always been a bit of a car guy but I’ve put common sense and reliability ahead of pleasure on almost every car shopping list. Even when I was a teenager I aimed for sensible cars over hot hatches and the like. Possibly the Mk II MX5 1800 I owned for a couple of years came closest for outright fun but I was able to sell it on without shedding a tear.

With this in mind I started thinking about potential less sensible and potentially less reliable replacements for old “Terrance” the Toyota now that family car duties have been handed over to “Venus” the very capable Volvo. Wife to blame for car naming btw.

The Toyota has been utterly dependable and drives without fault. The body is rust free and the underside looks like a three year old car despite the salt crusted roads here in Ayrshire. It is an outstanding cheap family hack, but ultimately pretty dull.

So, what do I buy that’ll correct this past omission? What can I buy that I’ll truly love and cherish? I’ve sadly missed the boat regarding hot hatches as today’s electric steering rack equipped versions are utterly devoid of feel. They’re quick but numb. I’ve driven modern Golf GTi’s, Focus ST’s, Civic Type R’s and fast Audi’s and BMW’s yet found none very memorable. Fast yes, but fun no.

Assuming a budget of under £8,000, what can I buy that’ll give me the fizz down the trouser front I’ve missed out on? It no longer has family duties beyond transporting junior to school on my way to work and my commute lasts a total of 5 minutes (yes I am a lazy sod) so it has to be petrol and economy isn’t important. I do need it to be reliable so the irrational dream of an early Alfa 156 Twin Spark or GTV is out of the window.

I want something different. It doesn’t need to be an out and out fun car but it does need to be something I want to drive just for the pleasure of it, something I want to stand in the garage and admire nightly with a tinnie or two. Now this is a complex subject with me as I like such a verity of cars from 80’s Saab 900’s through hot Peugeot’s, Fast Fords from the late 90’s and naughties to Japanese coupes like the MX6, Celica and Prelude.

I’m in no rush as old Terrance is as ever unfailingly loyal and there’s a waiting list for him when I finally do succumb to stupidity and sell in favour of heart over head. But what to buy...
Where’s the joy? - Sulphur Man

Honda S2K, as you say family duties are no longer a prerequisite. £8K could snag you a half decent one, especially at this time of year....

Where’s the joy? - SLO76

Honda S2K, as you say family duties are no longer a prerequisite. £8K could snag you a half decent one, especially at this time of year....

Good one. Would need an option rear seat for junior though, thus the exclusion of an MX5 or S2000. I forgot to mention.
Where’s the joy? - craig-pd130

I'm sensing a 2-door coupé vibe from the cars you mention, and this is my personal bias but I think it would need more than a 4-cylinder engine.

I always felt the MX-6 was an underrated car, a friend had a 2.5 V6 and it was a lovely drive with that peach of an engine, and of course there's the Probe / Cougar version. The drawback is that the youngest MX-6 is going to be 22 years old and so you'll need to get lucky to find one that someone else has cherished.

There's the late 90s Honda Accord V6 coupe, which are very elegant, but also not very common.

EDIT: well, this one looks rather nice at just £1850: www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2000-Honda-Accord-3-0i-V6-2dr-A...u

Edited by craig-pd130 on 07/01/2021 at 22:11

Where’s the joy? - Moodyman

Stick with the Toyota theme and get a GT86 or the upcoming Celica. There's also the Yaris GR for the hooligan in you.

Toyota seem to be doing some interesting things at the moment, it's not all Prius and Avensis.

Where’s the joy? - SLO76

Stick with the Toyota theme and get a GT86 or the upcoming Celica. There's also the Yaris GR for the hooligan in you.

Toyota seem to be doing some interesting things at the moment, it's not all Prius and Avensis.

Very much agree. Toyota have let the engineers out their cave and they’re running riot. The GT86 is very appealing but I’d love a Yaris GR, it’s one of the very few modern cars I really like. Yet to have a shot of one but a friend is thinking about getting one. Sadly budget and will don’t stretch far enough for me to get one anytime soon.
Where’s the joy? - SLO76

I'm sensing a 2-door coupé vibe from the cars you mention, and this is my personal bias but I think it would need more than a 4-cylinder engine.

I always felt the MX-6 was an underrated car, a friend had a 2.5 V6 and it was a lovely drive with that peach of an engine, and of course there's the Probe / Cougar version. The drawback is that the youngest MX-6 is going to be 22 years old and so you'll need to get lucky to find one that someone else has cherished.

There's the late 90s Honda Accord V6 coupe, which are very elegant, but also not very common.

EDIT: well, this one looks rather nice at just £1850: www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2000-Honda-Accord-3-0i-V6-2dr-A...u

I was very fond of what Mazda were doing in the 90’s. From the original MX5 through the pop up headlamp 323F, curvy 626 (especially 2.5 GT) to the RX7, MX3, MX6 and the Xedos executives, they were really interesting yet were utterly reliable, RX7/8 excluded.
Where’s the joy? - expat

If it wasn't for the 8,000 budget I would have suggested a V8 Mustang. A bit of overkill for a 5 minute commute but you could find a long way round. Perhaps a Vauxhall Monaro might fit the bill.

Where’s the joy? - SLO76

If it wasn't for the 8,000 budget I would have suggested a V8 Mustang. A bit of overkill for a 5 minute commute but you could find a long way round. Perhaps a Vauxhall Monaro might fit the bill.

Never driven one but I can’t imagine there being much finesses to the drive. Do love the sound of a V8 though.
Where’s the joy? - Trilogy.

How about a MK5 Golf GTI?306 GTI-6?Alfa GT/Clio 182/Ford Puma 1.7/Audi TT MK1? You'd get a nice one of any of those for well within your budget. The only ones that will really depreciate are the Golf. and Alfa.

Where’s the joy? - SLO76

How about a MK5 Golf GTI?306 GTI-6?Alfa GT/Clio 182/Ford Puma 1.7/Audi TT MK1? You'd get a nice one of any of those for well within your budget. The only ones that will really depreciate are the Golf. and Alfa.

I’ve been looking out for a good Puma 1.7 for years on and off and every one I’ve viewed has been rotten sadly. These were brilliant little cars and will rocket in value soon. I looked at a few 306 GTi’s and XSi’s but most were ruined by the skint boy racer brigade and had just too much work needed for the money being asked. I did miss a very nice XSi 5dr a while back but it was too money and I hesitated. I do like the Mondeo ST200 and the later ST220 but both are rare in good order up here.

Edited by SLO76 on 07/01/2021 at 23:17

Where’s the joy? - elekie&a/c doctor
MG zt v8 . Plenty of leather and trimmings with the Ford v8 up front . Fuel consumption ? Don’t ask .
Where’s the joy? - SLO76
MG zt v8 . Plenty of leather and trimmings with the Ford v8 up front . Fuel consumption ? Don’t ask .

Good call, rare though.
Where’s the joy? - Trilogy.

There was a nice Puma for £3495 at a specialist dealer in Scotland the last autumn. Strong money but it looked a very good one.

MG ZS V6? MR-2/Boxster?

Where’s the joy? - Avant

It's a shame, given that you know such a lot and spend so much time giving good advice, that you haven't found the perfect car for yourself. But I'm sure you will.

No-one's yet lauded the BMW straight-six, so I will. Both the 'fun cars' that I had were straight-sixes: the Z3 2.2 (only 2 seats, as has the Z4, but how long before Junior can sit in the front?) and the 125i convertible. The 125i is the sweet spot - 6 cylinders but no turbo to give trouble. And that six is the smoothest engine that I've ever driven. You could put a glass of water on the bonnet and it wouldn't even ripple.

I didn't love the 125i as much as I expected, for precisely the reason that might appeal to you. I prefer light steering: this was a 10-reg and like most BMWs of that vintage the steering was what aficionados call 'meaty' but I call heavy. We chopped it and SWMBO's A1 in for the current A3 convertible: only a four but otherwise great and hopefully a keeper.

I've never tried an Audi TT - would a V6 TT be worth a look?

Edited by Avant on 07/01/2021 at 23:39

Where’s the joy? - SLO76
Never liked the Z4 Avant, or the Z3 before it. The Z4 was poorly made and the Z3 didn’t drive well. The TT didn’t float my boat either. Few German cars spike my interest much but swmbo does like the idea of a 4 seater convertible. She talks about a Mini but it’s not my thing at all.

Wish I’d bought that mint two owner 1988 Mk II Golf GTi I walked from a few years back. The private seller just wouldn’t negotiate and the car dealer inside me couldn’t cope with that. The car has risen sharply in value today.

Edited by SLO76 on 08/01/2021 at 00:45

Where’s the joy? - BPL
I'm looking for similar albeit with an unusually larger budget for me. How about a caref for bmw 330i or similar 6 cylinder petrol convertible ...well cared for. There will be maintenance and be prepared to scrap it if you get a huge bill.
Where’s the joy? - Avant

Great minds think alike, BPL - a minute apart.

Where’s the joy? - BPL
Loads of 125/135i convertibles on auto tr@d£r with low mileage. Sadly none near me
Where’s the joy? - BPL
Old Audi v6 convertible?
Where’s the joy? - Trilogy.

For me an Audi V6 convertible and BMW 330 lack excitement. I won't be surprised if SLO feels the same way.

Where’s the joy? - SLO76

For me an Audi V6 convertible and BMW 330 lack excitement. I won't be surprised if SLO feels the same way.

I’m not a huge BMW fan but the idea of a 4str convertible as a second car does appeal, especially to swmbo. A nice 6cyl petrol 3 series cabrio with low mileage, particularly an E46 could gain traction despite being stung in the past. There are also several good BM specialists nearby. But yes I don’t find BM’s particularly entertaining to drive, certainly any fitted with an electric rack. My bus has more feel. A nice 90’s E124 series Merc E class cabrio appeals too despite the wooden drive. The looks and sheer quality carry it through. I know, I know. It’s a confused message really. I’d like fun but different, yet I have few real needs from this second car other than it be something that can rekindle my motoring interest. The net is wide but funds limited after swmbo emptied the coffers for her car.
Where’s the joy? - nellyjak

Lexus SC 430..?

Where’s the joy? - SLO76

Lexus SC 430..?

BOAK!
Where’s the joy? - nellyjak

Lexus SC 430..?

BOAK!

That bad eh.?..lol

Where’s the joy? - SLO76

Lexus SC 430..?

BOAK!

That bad eh.?..lol

Awful in every way. A rare occasion where Clarkson was right.
Where’s the joy? - Metropolis.

Have you driven one? Asking that I expect you probably have. But i went in one when they were new and it had leather that was almost white with lovely dark blue exterior and that Yamaha wood (the rose coloured stuff that looks fake but isnt) and a satnav. It was smooth as silk and not the hard ride the top gear crew were complaining about, effortless car but not necessarily fun. And the bulbous styling was a big downgrade from the previous gen SC 300/400 which if they had gone evolutionary rather than revolutionary with could have been a good alternative visually to others like the XK and SL.

Where’s the joy? - Trilogy.

I think you might struggle to find a nice W124 cabrio within your budget, a nice coupe could be a better alternative. If you do buy a soft top I'd have thought you really want to garage it. Left of field, how about a Smart Roadster/Coupe? Or Saab 9-3 Cabriolet?

Where’s the joy? - SLO76

I think you might struggle to find a nice W124 cabrio within your budget, a nice coupe could be a better alternative. If you do buy a soft top I'd have thought you really want to garage it. Left of field, how about a Smart Roadster/Coupe? Or Saab 9-3 Cabriolet?

Agree, there’s next to no chance of an E124 Cabrio. The Smart Roadster was a car in need of a good gearbox, it was utterly ruined with that awful single clutch automated manual. Should’ve been brilliant. Have looked at Saab’s. Not a great car really but there’s just something about them, possibly my youth shining through. I was brought up riding around in Volvos and Saab’s. perhaps a C70 Cabrio.
Where’s the joy? - paul 1963

I've only ever had two cars that I was genuinely sad to walk away from, my previous Suzuki swift, mine was the 4x4 version, never gave a moment's trouble in the 3 years I had it and made me grin everytime I drove it.

Second one was a Jeep Wrangler soft top, mine had the 4 litre straight six engine, a real wolf in sheep's clothing, made a lovely sound and went like stink in a straight line, unstoppable off road as well...

Where’s the joy? - nellyjak

It's not an uncommon dilemma, Slo...I've long since accepted I really need TWO cars.

I love my current V6 Estima (5 years now)..incredibly comfortable, so well screwed together..reliable and spacious...nothing beats it for those long trips and full days out...and with that nice kick of power when you want it.

...BUT...the car I had before was a Celica vvti..2003..not the hooligan model with lift, but had more than enough to be entertaining...I used to drive that car for the pure driving pleasure it gave me...but wasn't so good on the longer trips.

Had I had the room to keep it..and undercover, I think I would have kept it for those days when you simply wanted to go out for a "drive".!!!

Only two other cars have ever given me anything close..a Saab 9-3 vert..SO comfortable..an a Lancia Fulvia which frankly held the road as though on rails..

Where’s the joy? - skidpan

Simplest for me to list first is the car I have owned and despised. That was a new Escort XR3i I bought in 1984, total tat. Never let me down or cost a penny but from the moment I drove away in it I realised it was a huge mistake and looked forward to changing it once it was paid for. Only good thing about it was the depreciation. Paid £6080 OTR and at 2 years old and 30,000 miles got £5800.

The next Ford I bought was 15 years later a 1.7 Puma and that was a great car, far better than the sum of its parts. Kept it almost 6 years and finding a replacement was difficult. Bought a Mini Cooper S which whilst reliable and cheap to run we never really bonded with, sold it after 2.5 years.

Suppose the fact that from 1986 to 1996 we had 2 Golf GTi's on the drive suggests we liked them and we did. In those 10 years we did 160,000 miles with no breakdowns, the only major expense, £350, was when the diff oil seals failed on one car after just over 100,000 miles but I decided whilst it was in bits to fit a new clutch and get the slightly noisy gearbox sorted so 3 jobs in one made £350 a bargain. Great cars, sad to see the 2nd one go but at the time my miles had increased (working as a sole trader surveyor) so a diesel was called for.

Since then the only car I was sad to see go was the Leon 1.4 TSi 140 PS. It was every bit as good as the Golf GTi's in every respect except its mpg, did 45 mpg wheras the GTi's averaged about 33 mpg. But it was just too small when it became our main car so we bought the first Superb which was good but after 2 months I get a feeling that PHEV motoring in the new iV is so good that an ICE only car is not on the agenda again.

For the record I last saw the 2nd GTi in Feb 2016, it was coming up 27 years old. Still local, still looked reasonable but is on a SORN now, its MOT expired in August 2016, it did make its 27th birthday. The Puma is still taxed and MOT'd, its now just past its 21st birthday. Must be really rusty by now, it was starting to bubble through when we sold it in 2005.

But lets not forget the Caterhams. It coming up 33 years since I bought the first and the only things that will stop me driving them is if I get my licence taken off me or am unable to get in and out.

Where’s the joy? - craig-pd130

after 2 months I get a feeling that PHEV motoring in the new iV is so good that an ICE only car is not on the agenda again.

I know exactly what you mean. I really miss the (literally) electric throttle response of my old 225xe.

Where’s the joy? - RichardW

Anything with this piece of automotive engineering art in it!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfa_Romeo_V6_engine

Where’s the joy? - John F

Owing to my 'buy the best, make it last' philosophy, I have owned very few cars since I passed my driving test in 1967. The one that was most like a thrilling on-and-off love affair was my Triumph Dolomite Sprint, bought used at around 40,000 miles but in a very few years became a victim of the dreaded tin worm. Great powertrain, luxurious cabin and very quick for its time. Marred by a propensity for incontinence via the water pump. Also weak rear suspension causing axle tramp and a tendency to change direction during hard acceleration.

The Honda S2000 was a good car, but old rusty ones are asking prices considerably more than my Audi W12 sport quattro, a much rarer and far superior piece of engineering, is worth. Perhaps they are transitioning to collectors items. As a piece of modern art and cultural achievement, a polished W12 crankshaft displayed on a pedestal would take some beating.

For a bit of joy, a 'toy' car to tinker with fits the bill. I am very fond of my trusty Triumph TR7 and after years of watching the coolant level sensor light flash at me have decided to try to repair it. Possibly the most advanced bit of electrical stuff in this 40yr old car is the sensor level control unit, a sealed cylindrical tube next to the steering column containing a small printed circuit board with the usual collection of tiny electronic items soldered to it - about which I know little. I have obtained a replacement transistor, resistor and an integrated circuit chip and, with a far-to-big soldering iron, installing them one by one, trying not to get them too hot as the internet tells me I could damage it. If I don't succeed it doesn't matter as replacement units are still available and the temperature gauge still works fine, and it provides me with some amusement. It is not mentioned in my old TR7 Haynes manual and I only learned of its existence recently.

Where’s the joy? - Alby Back
I'm more into waft than whizz these days, and my E Class estate manages to tick just about all my boxes from practicality to cossetery.

However, I digress. A friend and neighbour confessed to a similar itch to yours SLO, about a year ago. He's an architect and has dogs, kids and kit to shift on a daily basis. His main car is a worthy but ( in his own words, "dull" ) Peugeot 508 SW.

He has, over the years, also had a number of sports cars on his drive as well, some of them really quite special ones, including a couple of Boxsters.

Anyway, having got a bit frustrated by having cars that were fun, but in grave danger of encouraging him to drive in such a way as to immolate his licence, he went in a different direction this time and bought a little Peugeot 108 with a roll back canvas roof. Says he's not had so much joy and fun from a car in years. Apparently it feels like you're pressing on, when in fact you're still legal, on open roads, and of course it's great in cities and towns. Costs buttons to run too.

Have to say, I completely get it.
Where’s the joy? - Trilogy.
Have to say, I completely get it.

I get it, sometimes less is more.

Where’s the joy? - SLO76
I'm more into waft than whizz these days, and my E Class estate manages to tick just about all my boxes from practicality to cossetery. However, I digress. A friend and neighbour confessed to a similar itch to yours SLO, about a year ago. He's an architect and has dogs, kids and kit to shift on a daily basis. His main car is a worthy but ( in his own words, "dull" ) Peugeot 508 SW. He has, over the years, also had a number of sports cars on his drive as well, some of them really quite special ones, including a couple of Boxsters. Anyway, having got a bit frustrated by having cars that were fun, but in grave danger of encouraging him to drive in such a way as to immolate his licence, he went in a different direction this time and bought a little Peugeot 108 with a roll back canvas roof. Says he's not had so much joy and fun from a car in years. Apparently it feels like you're pressing on, when in fact you're still legal, on open roads, and of course it's great in cities and towns. Costs buttons to run too. Have to say, I completely get it.

I get it too. I’ve had more fun at the wheel of a small fwd hatch of modest power than behind the wheel of many a fancy sports car. But I do want something interesting and a bit different. I’d love a nice 80’s or 90’s hot hatch but good examples are rare and very overpriced. Maybe if I could catch a good naughties fast Ford before it starts to soar in price. A Fiesta ST150, Mondeo ST200, Focus ST170 or Mk II ST 2.5T. All getting rare in standard spec and good condition.
Where’s the joy? - Alby Back
Fiat 500 Abarth. There's one near here that you hear before you see. Not sure if it has been interfered with in some way or if they're all like that. The driver always seems to be grinning anyway.
Where’s the joy? - madf
Fiat 500 Abarth. There's one near here that you hear before you see. Not sure if it has been interfered with in some way or if they're all like that. The driver always seems to be grinning anyway.

That is their teeth falling out.

Friend had one. Seriously stiff ride.. terrible.

Where’s the joy? - Alby Back
Just musing, but I guess if you live in Ayrshire then you're not too far from one end of the "Lang Whang" ( A70 ) ?

I used to live at the other end of it, more or less, and it was always one of "those" roads. Probably festooned with cameras now I shouldn't wonder?

My favourite section was always the bit from the A74 to Harperigg reservoir. May have occasionally and of course, inadvertently, gone a little bit too fast there back in the dim and distant...
Where’s the joy? - SLO76
Fiat 500 Abarth. There's one near here that you hear before you see. Not sure if it has been interfered with in some way or if they're all like that. The driver always seems to be grinning anyway.

Neighbour has one, I’m quite a fan and so it seems is he, with not a bad word to say.
Where’s the joy? - Alby Back
Fiat 500 Abarth. There's one near here that you hear before you see. Not sure if it has been interfered with in some way or if they're all like that. The driver always seems to be grinning anyway.

Neighbour has one, I’m quite a fan and so it seems is he, with not a bad word to say. Well, Madf thinks it's too hard a ride. I don't mind a hard ride, not every day now of course, but, y'know, Sundays and so on... ;-)

Edited by Alby Back on 08/01/2021 at 19:41

Where’s the joy? - Trilogy.

I do like the ST170, perhaps prefer to a Swift Sport, still available less than £3,000. If you buy one make sure you thoroughly waxoyl it. A couple of alternatives, given you like Mazdas - an MPS 3 or MPS 5 or even an RX-7. If you go for a C70 folding hardtop, as opposed to the soft top version, remember depending on the model & year road tax can be around £500.

Where’s the joy? - badbusdriver

How about a Suzuki Swift Sport (1.6) SLO?. Granted it isn't the kind of thing you'd stand admiring with a drink in hand, but I think it ticks pretty much all the other boxes.

Much has been mentioned about 'old' hot hatches, well the 1.6 Swift Sport is the closest modern equivalent. £8k is enough to get a 2015/6 example with low miles and full history.

Where’s the joy? - Trilogy.

How about a Suzuki Swift Sport (1.6) SLO?. Granted it isn't the kind of thing you'd stand admiring with a drink in hand, but I think it ticks pretty much all the other boxes.

Much has been mentioned about 'old' hot hatches, well the 1.6 Swift Sport is the closest modern equivalent. £8k is enough to get a 2015/6 example with low miles and full history.

Great suggestion, bbd, one is on my radar for a fun car if I don't buy a Puma or 156. The MK2 Swift Sport is supposed to have more feedback through the steering than the MK1, and its regarded as being the best modern day hatch closest to the feel of those which were best in the 1980s.

Where’s the joy? - newguy2015

I am one of the many lurkers here. Back in 2015 I posted a very similar question. Here’s the link if anybody is interested https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=108781

The only car I have ever really loved was my smart roadster. I had a love hate relationship with it. Most unreliable heap of rubbish I’ve ever owned. It leaked constantly and because i live in Glasgow was very problematic. But it drove and looked amazing. Yes the gear box was crap but it’s the only car I’ve loved

The post from 2015 was to help me get something I loved again. I am sorry to say that I failed miserably. I imported a Japanese 1998 mx5. Still after all these years it has no rust at all but if I’m honest I hate the car. Part of me wants it to die but everyone I start the thing it works fine. I can’t justify getting rid out ir

hope you find something your love

newguy

Where’s the joy? - Terry W

I have never regretted getting rid of a car as they have all been changed in the expectation of having something better, newer, faster, more spacious etc etc.

Mostly my expectations have been fulfilled - partly as I have tended to change infrequently and thus any replacement is likely to be 5-8 years newer than the outgoing.

Sadly from a motoring fun point of view I have tended to place head above heart and most purchases have been "rational" choices. For many years I ran cheap convertible weekend cars for that reason.

Even now with a newish Peugeot 308 auto (more than adequate) I frequently contemplate that attractions of an older S Class, 7 Series etc. Advancing years, waistline and knee joints make low slung cars a bit problematic.

However I did come to the conclusion one can have as much driving fun with a low powered, skinny tyred, small car as in a 300+ bhp supercharged sportsmobile.

It's more about how it feels, not absolute speed. In a supercar, floor it and it runs out of road very quickly - but you can drive flat out in 1000cc of well sorted shopping trolley with more limited risk to limb or licence.

Edited by Terry W on 08/01/2021 at 13:30

Where’s the joy? - Steveieb

Throughout my motoring history there has only been two cars that have really brought me joy.

Firstly my mark one Honda Accord. It was so ahead of its time and introduced a boringly reliable Japanese car which had style , speed, refinement and lack of noise vibration etc.I loved the command post driving position and the centre bonnet emblem which gave a sense of direction. Now all we see is a dashboard .

Secondly my Audi 80 Tdi , mk2 such a beautiful well built car which went to the scrapyard with not a hint of rust unlike the Accord.

Like SLO the only open top car that bought me joy was the MX5 driven round the alpine circuit at Millbrook. How could a humble Mazda bring more joy than the S2000 that I drove round the same circuit that day.

Where’s the joy? - Avant

Yes, the point made by Alby and Terry among others has got to be right. In restricted, over-populated Britain, maximum speed isn't going to be a major factor in finding the 'joy' of the thread title.

For me at least, an immediate, lively step-off from rest is half the fun. I never really enjoyed the series of Mini Coopers that SWMBO had, where all the action seemed to be at the top end of the rev range. Instant torque is another great feature of the BMW straight-six, especially the ones with no turbo to lag.

SLO, I'd imagine that something like an Aygo or Suzuki Swift would have steering that's lighter than you want - but worth trying these anyway. But also see if you can find a 125i (or 6-cyl 330i / 335i, though they'll cost more) and have a go in it.

Where’s the joy? - badbusdriver

The only car I have ever really loved was my smart roadster. I had a love hate relationship with it. Most unreliable heap of rubbish I’ve ever owned. It leaked constantly and because i live in Glasgow was very problematic. But it drove and looked amazing. Yes the gear box was crap but it’s the only car I’ve loved

I can absolutely relate to this, though I think it is more to do with character than, necessarily, what SLO is looking for!.

Cars I have owned in the past and think about wistfully have not been 'good' cars, or indeed even 'competent', but they got under my skin and that is what counts.

The 'car' which these days I am most drawn towards is a 4x4 Russian van which has been on sale with virtually no major changes since the mid 60's and which you can still buy new. The UAZ 452 or Bukhanka (pan loaf, because it looks a bit like a loaf of bread!) is available as a van, minibus, Combi, pickup, or a variety of specialist bodywork on the rear depending on application. One engine choice, a 2.7 4 cyl petrol making 112bhp, and the only nod to safety is ABS. Don't know exactly what it is which appeals to me, but I'd really like one!.

The post from 2015 was to help me get something I loved again. I am sorry to say that I failed miserably. I imported a Japanese 1998 mx5. Still after all these years it has no rust at all but if I’m honest I hate the car. Part of me wants it to die but everyone I start the thing it works fine. I can’t justify getting rid out ir

Going back to your dilemma, given how much you liked the Smart Roadster, maybe a Japanese sports car which fits within the Kei car regulations like the Honda Beat or Suzuki Cappuccino?. There is also the Daihatsu Copen (which was officially available in the UK), this started life as a kei car (under 660cc) but then gained a 1.3. Youngest will be about 2009, but (assuming the retractable roof works) there shouldn't be any reliability worries, just check thoroughly for rust!.

Where’s the joy? - eustace

Maybe a little bit left field.

But if i were in your situation, I would go for something like this:-

www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202012237364109

Where’s the joy? - Trilogy.

Maybe a little bit left field.

But if i were in your situation, I would go for something like this:-

www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202012237364109

And £2,000 over budget with potential excessive costs too.

Where’s the joy? - eustace

But it's the kind of car I would develop an emotive attachment to. And it could very well become a classic and appreciate.

If I had unlimited funds, the car I would be would be a Bentley Speed 6

Where’s the joy? - chesterfieldhouse

Yes l know where you're coming from. Thinking back, by far the majority of car purchases have been head over heart. However, as most people, there were pressures from work, children, budget, parking & multiple other reasons that influenced that decision.

As others have commented, l'm definitely a two car person, one for the head & one for the heart. Also, as my wife doesn't drive, it's harder to justify a car purely for joy. But over the years the "head cars" have been joined by a couple of "heart cars" l recall being keen on the Fiat X19 which with a 1.5 engine & a propensity to rust away, along with the usual Fiat reliability issues wasn't anything special; but it just (l thought) had something. l joined the X19 club & met some owners at meetings who were very accommodating in letting me have a drive or two. With the top removed, driving the thing only made me more keen, sitting low, bit of understeer, it was great fun. Even then my head took over to a certain extent, when l started to look at Toyota MR2's (MK 1) better built, reliability & go cart steering led me to buying a bright red example.

The more recent "heart car" was a BMW Z4 2.5 straight 6. Great engine with lots of torque, but as SLO has mentioned, the rest of the car had that made in the USA poor build quality.

SIL had a 3 series convertible with the same engine. Better build quality & for a second car four seats & the option to drop the top down does give you more options.

Where’s the joy? - Trilogy.

Going back to your dilemma, given how much you liked the Smart Roadster, maybe a Japanese sports car which fits within the Kei car regulations like the Honda Beat or Suzuki Cappuccino?. There is also the Daihatsu Copen (which was officially available in the UK), this started life as a kei car (under 660cc) but then gained a 1.3. Youngest will be about 2009, but (assuming the retractable roof works) there shouldn't be any reliability worries, just check thoroughly for rust!.

Or even a Perodua Kelisa, highly rated by Hammond and May.

Where’s the joy? - newguy2015

Badbusdriver

I think you are probably right about a cars character. I regularly search for smart roadsters for sale. I suspect if I bought one I would be very disappointed now. They say you should’nt meet your hero’s. So maybe driving a roadster now would be disappointing

I will be honest with you, I don’t do the mileage now to justify buying another car. My 23 year old mx5 will probably outlast SLO! I’ll probably replace it when petrol cars are banned!

I do have a thing for the Honda s660 and the new daihatsu copen but importing from Japan is now too expensive, given the exchange rate

Where’s the joy? - BPL

I second the Swift Sport 1.6 my son has one. It will cruise down the motorway or go around corners like it is on rails. Slightly hard ride and seats in keeping with it's warm hatch status though. 140hp and about 1000kg I think. 40+ mpg whatever way driven. Non turbo so nice and simple no lag, Silly fob lock system. Had a seized rear caliper probably by under use of the brakes by original owner. Slightly higher drving postion with plenty headroom. I'm 6'4" 192cm ....why don't i buy one.....?

Where’s the joy? - newguy2015

I had a Suzuki Swift and it did everything I asked of it. Build quality wasn’t up to the usual Japanese standards and there were rattles everywhere.

i just didn’t love it. I never just decided to go for a drive in it, simply for the pleasure of driving

Where’s the joy? - Trilogy.

I had a Suzuki Swift and it did everything I asked of it. Build quality wasn’t up to the usual Japanese standards and there were rattles everywhere.

i just didn’t love it. I never just decided to go for a drive in it, simply for the pleasure of driving

Was yours a MK1 or MK2? I prefer the look of the MK1 but gather you get a bit better ride and superior feedback through the steering wheel with the MK2. Latter has 6 speed box so is better on motorways.

Where’s the joy? - newguy2015

i have a mk2. I will confess that am somewhat responsible for ruining the car

I am 5”11 and when I got the car I found out that I could not fit in it. My head was against the roof and the steering wheel was to close to my legs. This is the point Were I should have got rid of it. Instead I “improved” it by fitting a bucket seat /harness and a smaller steering wheel. The seat is rather uncomfortable given it’s made out of plastic Driving for more than an hour would involve a trip to the chiropractor

my next mistake was fitting lowering springs. This improved the handling no end but does mean that I now have to avoid any streets with speed bumps

New guy

Where’s the joy? - Trilogy.

Had a seized rear caliper probably by under use of the brakes by original owner. Slightly higher drving postion with plenty headroom. I'm 6'4" 192cm ....why don't i buy one.....?

Seized rear calipers are not uncommon for a Swift.

Where’s the joy? - Metropolis.
How about this: www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202010094810222

Have a read of the description and look through pics before dismissing it, i would not recommend a typical crusty UK market model with worn out everything, but I bet you would struggle to find a single rusty bolt on this, get it Dinitroled for £500ish at somewhere like SouthWest Rustproofing (others available!) and you’d have an appreciating asset if your mileage stays reasonably low. Expensive cars when new especially in Japan and no doubt cherished. Description does not say if one owner but it is surprisingly common like with my discovery! Most reliable car and cheap to run? No, but a good example of an end of the line classic that COULD well be a reliable daily hack? Possibly.

FYI it has been on there for ages so I bet they would accept a cheeky offer..

They also do not say what grade it was given on export from Japan, if was not at least grade 4 I would avoid.


0-60 6.9 seconds when new. Grace, space and pace!
Where’s the joy? - barney100

Same thoughts a few years ago, we were driving past a small Indies and I espied a CLK320 convertible. Got a good deal and really enjoyed the car for 6 years. Neighbour has a left field choice, a Crossfire, lots in common with the CLK. there's a club to help when you need advice too.

Where’s the joy? - Brit_in_Germany

Not sure about prices but a 2010 Jaguar XF 3.0 240 HP (not the S) with fsh and the belts having been changed would be my suggestion. A lovely car for driving and enough get up and go when needs must.

Where’s the joy? - Avant

This is a great thread! We've given SLO just about as big a range as we can to think about, and we've even managed to bear his budget in mind. From an Aygo to a Jaguar XJ, taking in BMW and Mercedes convertibles on the way.

So it boils down to what 'joy' means' - of course different things to different people. Both our Audis give me a great deal of pleasure and a feeling of well-being, but if I were 22 rather than 72 I might think differently.

Come to think about it, when I was 22 I got my first new car. I'd thought about an MG Midget but the MG 1300 was actually faster and cost less to insure, so I had one of those.

If SLO's nom de clavier indicates his year of birth, then he's still quite young and presumably looking for a bit of excitement rather than just well-being.

My money's on him plumping for one of the Japanese coupes he mentioned, with a Celica or Supra as possible favourites.

Where’s the joy? - SLO76

This is a great thread! We've given SLO just about as big a range as we can to think about, and we've even managed to bear his budget in mind. From an Aygo to a Jaguar XJ, taking in BMW and Mercedes convertibles on the way.

So it boils down to what 'joy' means' - of course different things to different people. Both our Audis give me a great deal of pleasure and a feeling of well-being, but if I were 22 rather than 72 I might think differently.

Come to think about it, when I was 22 I got my first new car. I'd thought about an MG Midget but the MG 1300 was actually faster and cost less to insure, so I had one of those.

If SLO's nom de clavier indicates his year of birth, then he's still quite young and presumably looking for a bit of excitement rather than just well-being.

My money's on him plumping for one of the Japanese coupes he mentioned, with a Celica or Supra as possible favourites.

That’s just it Avant, fun can come in so many different four wheeled forms. A new Aygo would be a hoot, an old Jag would be a treasure and an old fast Ford a lifestyle to enjoy at car shows etc. I had a wee taste of it when I had a very nice Cougar V6 for a while, a car that was by that stage quite rare and it was a great conversation starter at fast Ford events, a bit of a marmite car. I can’t say I loved the car but I enjoyed the chat. Maybe it’s time to scratch the old hot hatch itch again. A Fiesta ST150 or a a fast Focus or Mondeo may be in order here. Something that’ll increase in value and be worthy of a parking spot at the occasional car show in the future. That all said, I just want something different and my usage today allows for a modern classic of some sort.
Where’s the joy? - expat

Subaru Impreza WRX. Ok they are getting old but if you could find one which hasn't been flogged to death by adolescents then it could be good on the Ayrshire B roads.

Where’s the joy? - badbusdriver

A Fiesta ST150 or a a fast Focus or Mondeo may be in order here. Something that’ll increase in value and be worthy of a parking spot at the occasional car show in the future.

Here you go SLO, not far from you either,

202012207275441

Where’s the joy? - badbusdriver

So, fond memories of Volvo's (as well as Saab's), a liking for fast Fords, something a bit different. How about this then?,

202012147089488

Or sticking withVolvo, who could resist an 850R estate?,

202009173873429

Where’s the joy? - Metropolis.
Good shout on the Volvo C30, I have been in a Focus ST of that era with the same Volvo 2.5 5 cylinder and it was a peach. Enough torque to pull a sailor off another mans wife as the saying goes!
Where’s the joy? - Trilogy.

To add to your short list of Fords, if you want small, remember the Sport Ka.

Given the lack of early 156 Sportwagons my short list for a fun car at the moment is, in no particular order:-

Suzuki Swift Sport MK1/2

Smart Roadster Coupe

Focus ST170/ standard 2.0

Puma 1.4/1.6/1.7

Mondeo MK1 face lift version 1.8/2.0 petrol

MG ZS

Peugeot 306

Edited by Trilogy. on 09/01/2021 at 10:55

Where’s the joy? - Metropolis.

I know it is in the eye of the beholder Trilogy, but part of SLO's criteria was "somemething I want to stand in the garage and admire nightly with a tinnie or two"

I would love to drive any car on that list, but I think they are more cars to be enjoyed from the inside and not the outside. Maybe that's just my prejudice against hatchbacks speaking.

That Jag XJ on the other hand with its swooping lines, soft leather, wood dash and burbly v8.... :)

but then I am usually in the minority opinion!

Where’s the joy? - skidpan

When we were swapping the Puma back in 2005 the Focus ST170 and the Fiesta ST150 were at the top of the list along with the Civic Type R and the Mini Cooper S.

After the Civic Type R the Fiesta was a let down but the issue for us with the Civic was the Sparco seats and access into the rear, a total pain. The ST170 was already out of production, only stock cars and all were laden with options and no deals. Probably why they still had them.

So we bought the Cooper S.

Should have bought the ST150.

Where’s the joy? - badbusdriver

I know it is in the eye of the beholder Trilogy, but part of SLO's criteria was "somemething I want to stand in the garage and admire nightly with a tinnie or two"

I would love to drive any car on that list, but I think they are more cars to be enjoyed from the inside and not the outside. Maybe that's just my prejudice against hatchbacks speaking.

That Jag XJ on the other hand with its swooping lines, soft leather, wood dash and burbly v8.... :)

but then I am usually in the minority opinion!

I've no issue with the notion of a Jag XJ. The problem for me is that one you posted a link to is a LWB. Fine if you need the space in the back (SLO doesn't), but it does rather spoil those lines (IMO). As the front doors are standard, all the extra length has been grafted on the rears, which does the side view no favours at all. Possibly why there are no side pics of the one in your advert.

And while it may be swift, its sheer size means there wouldn't be much fun hustling it along tight Ayershire county roads. That Jag's forte would be taking elderly friends/relatives to high tea in dignified comfort. Or possibly being able to offer its service as a wedding car.

Also, is SLO's garage big enough to fit its considerable (5.15M) inside and close the door?.

Where’s the joy? - Metropolis.

Valid points BBD and I see what you mean about the LWB, although I actually prefer it to the more 'squat' looking standard wheelbase ones. As for driving it really depends what kind of driving experience you want, i agree it would not be a car to corner like it's on rails, but Jaguars do tend to be on the sportier side of luxury. personally I would like it on typical Ayrshire roads, bet it would lope along quite happily at pace on A roads, maybe not the B roads... an XJR would be better of course but maybe out of budget and definitely more likely to have been ragged.

Funny you mention elderly relatives, some of us still associate Jags with getaway cars but I know the image has changed!

Edit: B roads too... www.google.com/maps/@55.3642227,-4.2950281,3a,75y,...6

Edited by Metropolis. on 09/01/2021 at 15:45

Where’s the joy? - badbusdriver

Valid points BBD and I see what you mean about the LWB, although I actually prefer it to the more 'squat' looking standard wheelbase ones.

I'd possibly agree were the front and rear doors extended equally (obviously this would make the conversion rather more expensive) to make the extra length more discreet and balance the car visually. But to my eyes, how the car looks as it is just makes its purpose more obvious, i.e, the owner sitting in the back being driven by a chauffeur.

Where’s the joy? - Trilogy.

Metropolis it was 'my short list for a fun car at the moment is' not a list for SLO.

If you going to buy an XJ it has to be the one from around 1983 - 1985.

Where’s the joy? - Manatee

www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C1294507

Saab 900 in Perth.

Where’s the joy? - badbusdriver

www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C1294507

Saab 900 in Perth.

Very mixed feelings about this!. On the one hand, I love classic shape 900's, especially the pre-facelift flat front versions like this. It looks mint, and it is a very good price.

On the other hand, IMO the 2 door saloon (I'm not using the term coupe, because it isn't) is the least attractive of the body styles, and this is the bottom of the range single carb 100bhp model, so performance will be adequate at best. Might only be a 4 speed manual too.

Still.............................!

Did see a couple of them (not the flat front) on Autotrader which I liked the look of, this is one,

202009224052982

Where’s the joy? - Metropolis.
How about this Cadillac? Looks tidy but I have not checked mot history.

www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202010275477202
Where’s the joy? - badbusdriver

Going back to Volvo, just found this fantastic looking (SA import) 121 on carandclassic.co.uk,

C129734

Where’s the joy? - Metropolis.
Wow, that engine bay, crying out for an LS or rover v8 swap if it wasn’t so original
Where’s the joy? - veloceman
I’ll stick my usual Italian suggestion in the mix.
My favourite ever car was Fiat Uno Turbo. Bit different to the MG Metros and XR2s of the time.

How about Alfa Giulietta 1.7TBi 235bhp Cloverleaf.
Early ones were manual, (later TCT Auto that as far as I’m aware gives little trouble).

Giulietta is a pretty reliable Alfa!
Where’s the joy? - SLO76
I’ll stick my usual Italian suggestion in the mix. My favourite ever car was Fiat Uno Turbo. Bit different to the MG Metros and XR2s of the time. How about Alfa Giulietta 1.7TBi 235bhp Cloverleaf. Early ones were manual, (later TCT Auto that as far as I’m aware gives little trouble). Giulietta is a pretty reliable Alfa!

Ah, memories. I loved the Uno turbo and the 205 GTi. A good R5 Turbo was fun too. Sadly not many left now. But yes, an 80’s or 90’s hot hatch appeals greatly. Depreciation free motoring if looked after.
Where’s the joy? - skidpan
Wow, that engine bay, crying out for an LS or rover v8 swap if it wasn’t so original

I know of one 121 estate that has been fitted with a well tuned T5 engine keeping it all Volvo.

Where’s the joy? - Metropolis.
Love it!
Where’s the joy? - Trilogy.

SLO, a few more for consideration - all BMW -E30, E28 and E36.

Where’s the joy? - Alby Back
Having been down the road of having a "weekend" car in the past, I can't stress enough the need to ensure that you have somewhere to go in it on a regular basis. Just going "for a drive" soon palls.

I had a Westfield back along, and what a cheerful thing it was, but I used to use it most evenings to drive about ten miles along some great country roads to get to the gym, and by doing so, it made a lot of sense. Also, we used to take it on European holiday trips in the summer and that was fun too.

The common thread I find with a lot of guys who have a "fun" car or a motorbike, is that they quite often hardly use them, which sort of defeats the object of having one. Just polishing them and staring at them doesn't really keep the attention for long.

I think it's quite important to choose something that you love driving, but that can fit into your daily life too.
Where’s the joy? - veloceman
Agreed, especially bikes which have no real purpose.
At least you can go shopping or out for a meal in a car.

However I found best to get involved with a car club, summer and evening meets are great, you will find a great source of parts and all there is to know about yours.
Where’s the joy? - badbusdriver

Agreed, especially bikes which have no real purpose.

Really?, I think a large chunk of Asian may disagree there. Not to mention people who's lives have been saved by a paramedic on a motorbike getting to the scene of an accident much quicker than an ambulance could. Then of course there are motorbike riders who deliver vital medical supplies, be it blood or an organ for a transplant patient.

Having said that, there is no reason at all you can't go shopping or go for a meal on a motorbike.

Where’s the joy? - SLO76

Going back to Volvo, just found this fantastic looking (SA import) 121 on carandclassic.co.uk,

C129734

Good cars these but probably a bit too old for my liking. I do like 80’s Volvos though. A nice 240 GLT holds some appeal. A work colleague has a tatty 89 example lying in his garden but it’ll need loads of work.