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From the Guardian - Don't buy a used hybrid from VW - _

www.theguardian.com/money/2020/nov/09/vw-repair-bi...y

Big Bills if no extended or dealer warranty.

From the Guardian - Don't buy a used hybrid from VW - craig-pd130

That is very shoddy customer care, especially considering both cars had full VW SH and were only just outside of warranty.

I had a 225xe PHEV for 3 years from new and it was faultless, but I wouldn't yet have a used PHEV that was out of the manufacturer's warranty as a private buyer.

I suspect this is where Hyundai and Kia will quickly grow their market share, as their hybrids and EVs carry their long warranties, which gives buyers more peace of mind.

From the Guardian - Don't buy a used hybrid from VW - MGspannerman

Why rely on an extended or dealers warranty knowing that the manufacturer (VW) or component (gearbox) is problematic? Why not buy a vehicle from a company of repute that manufacturers and supports products of known reliability.

As for VW, a completely disreputable company. I wouldn't p**s in their ear if their brains were on fire.

From the Guardian - Don't buy a used hybrid from VW - Bolt

Why not buy a vehicle from a company of repute that manufacturers and supports products of known reliability.

Are you not forgetting some people will buy a motor because they like it, very often some will ask about whats wrong and can go wrong with a motor, but are not really interested and will buy it anyway -thinking it will not happen to them -

when it does everyone is moaned to about it (but they were warned)

Happens all the time.....

From the Guardian - Don't buy a used hybrid from VW - Andrew-T

... some people will buy a motor because they like it, very often some will ask about whats wrong and can go wrong with a motor, but are not really interested and will buy it anyway -thinking it will not happen to them -

Quite commonly it doesn't happen, which is why they keep doing it.

From the Guardian - Don't buy a used hybrid from VW - Terry W

VW completely trashed their previously very good record for corporate behaviour with the emissions rigging scandal.

They are also probably very aware of the high costs of EU production, low cost competition with rapidly improving product ranges, and changes to vehicle technology marginalising traditional manufacturers.

So it is no surprise that they will deny responsibility for anything for which they have no legal obligation.

From the Guardian - Don't buy a used hybrid from VW - daveyjp

Meanwhile Toyota now offer warranty of their hybrid system to 15 years as long as it has an annual dealer check.

When it was a 10 year warranty I know someone who claimed after 9.5 years and it was honoured with no quibble whatsoever.

From the Guardian - Don't buy a used hybrid from VW - Trilogy.

Meanwhile Toyota now offer warranty of their hybrid system to 15 years as long as it has an annual dealer check.

When it was a 10 year warranty I know someone who claimed after 9.5 years and it was honoured with no quibble whatsoever.

Toyota are know to contribute even out of warranty as long as the car has always been serviced by them. That's proper customer service. I've no plans to ever buy another VAG product.

From the Guardian - Don't buy a used hybrid from VW - Miniman777

I cant understand why people fall over themselves to defend VW. Some German cars are not the quality premium product they were - and I say that as an owner of my first BMW, which touch wood, has actually been great.

VW have a litany of past problems - ABS brake modules, poor timing chains, DSG gearbox, diesel emissions to name a few, and now failures on recent hybrid cars. All of the problems have been very expensive for customers with cars out of warranty.

But with the rush to hybrid, it's also a concern BMW and Ford are reporting issues too.Makes me wonder if too much pressure being applied by marketing teams to release new vehicles so as not to slip behind rivals, but the product development is lacking?

From the Guardian - Don't buy a used hybrid from VW - Engineer Andy

Sad really. The German makes are certainly pushing the boundaries as regards poor customer service, presumably believing there are still queues of people lining up to buy from them because of their 'Germanic reputation for quality and service' as well as the 'snob factor'.

I'm sure that other car manufacturers will welcome them with open arms.

I heard something of a similar nature coming out of the US as regards Tesla and them flatly refusing to maintain (including making/selling/fitting any replacement parts for them) their cars once they reach 10 years old. Not sure if there was or is a 'pattern parts' and indie maintenance set up to be able to do this instead.

Unlike the VW story, I couldn't verify whether this one was true or not at the time (about a year or so ago - I can't remember wher I read/watched it).

From the Guardian - Don't buy a used hybrid from VW - Andrew-T

I heard something of a similar nature coming out of the US as regards Tesla and them flatly refusing to maintain (including making/selling/fitting any replacement parts for them) their cars once they reach 10 years old. Not sure if there was or is a 'pattern parts' and indie maintenance set up to be able to do this instead.

Now and again someone on here says that cars are becoming 'white goods'. What you describe is exactly the same for washing or sewing machines, and especially computers - parts for obsolete devices simply become unavailable. EVs are an evolving product, so I would guess obsolescence will occur fairly steadily while the public is beta-testing.

Edited by Andrew-T on 09/11/2020 at 12:12

From the Guardian - Don't buy a used hybrid from VW - madf

Sad really. The German makes are certainly pushing the boundaries as regards poor customer service, presumably believing there are still queues of people lining up to buy from them because of their 'Germanic reputation for quality and service' as well as the 'snob factor'.

I'm sure that other car manufacturers will welcome them with open arms.

I heard something of a similar nature coming out of the US as regards Tesla and them flatly refusing to maintain (including making/selling/fitting any replacement parts for them) their cars once they reach 10 years old. Not sure if there was or is a 'pattern parts' and indie maintenance set up to be able to do this instead.

Unlike the VW story, I couldn't verify whether this one was true or not at the time (about a year or so ago - I can't remember wher I read/watched it).

It is true about Tesla. No more software upgrades after 10 years I read.

(But you can buy pattern parts on ebay)

As I would never buy any VW after Dieslegate (and never before due to salesman attitudes), I have to say VW are living down to the poor opinion I have of them as a bunch of lying conniving ....s

Edited by madf on 09/11/2020 at 12:58

From the Guardian - Don't buy a used hybrid from VW - Bolt

(But you can buy pattern parts on ebay)

If they get the same idea that Apple have done, pattern parts wont work unless they are coded to a security chip, idea is only the OEM can repair and no one else can.

which I think will happen on all EVs and Hybrids eventually due to safety concerns imo. which will mean after warranty is up it will be too expensive to repair them.

From the Guardian - Don't buy a used hybrid from VW - _

which I think will happen on all EVs and Hybrids eventually due to safety concerns imo. which will mean after warranty is up it will be too expensive to repair them.

Which means already that if you are buying new or recently new cars, only buy those with a long warranty or manufacturer backed warranty and be prepared to dump it or lose a lot when that warranty expires. suddenly leasing or such where you "rent" the car for X number of years can look enticing,

But is that not what the manufacturers want? One of my neighbours has just got rid of his XF 2.7 diesel as too expensive to repair now.

From the Guardian - Don't buy a used hybrid from VW - Andrew-T

which I think will happen on all EVs and Hybrids eventually due to safety concerns imo. which will mean after warranty is up it will be too expensive to repair them.

Which means already that if you are buying new or recently new cars, only buy those with a long warranty or manufacturer backed warranty and be prepared to dump it or lose a lot when that warranty expires. suddenly leasing or such where you "rent" the car for X number of years can look enticing.

It will be interesting to see how the s/h value of such cars pans out. It will be similar to buying a property with only a short lease remaining.

From the Guardian - Don't buy a used hybrid from VW - madf

Tesla second hand value are very high..

Pattern part? I referred mainly to brakes and suspensions. None of which will be coded.

From the Guardian - Don't buy a used hybrid from VW - Bolt

Tesla second hand value are very high..

Pattern part? I referred mainly to brakes and suspensions. None of which will be coded.

Don`t they use the Motor to brake rather than pads like the Prius does, the Prius brakes are controlled by the ecu with no physical link between brake pedal and Master cylinder untill the ECU says so in emergency, Suspension should last cars lifetime?

From the Guardian - Don't buy a used hybrid from VW - skidpan

Bought a Superb iV just over 2 weeks ago to replace the 44 month old 1.4 TSi Superb and have to say its absolutely magic. Having spent the last 9 months deliberating what to buy and finding nothing that did the job as well as the existing Superb it was a simple decision made even easier by the attitude of some dealers of other brands and then finding a 3 week old pre-reg cancelled order with a huge discount and a very good PX on the old car (way cheaper than using a broker this time).

I am not going to worry about VAGs reputation, this makes 4 VAG cars in succession now and the last 3 have needed no work other than regular servicing.

May not keep it out of warranty, never intended to keep the 1.4 TSi that long but Covid delayed matters.

From the Guardian - Don't buy a used hybrid from VW - craig-pd130

Bought a Superb iV just over 2 weeks ago to replace the 44 month old 1.4 TSi Superb and have to say its absolutely magic.

Which engine does the new one have? And what are you finding different / better in the new one compared with your previous one?

From the Guardian - Don't buy a used hybrid from VW - skidpan

Bought a Superb iV just over 2 weeks ago to replace the 44 month old 1.4 TSi Superb and have to say its absolutely magic.

Which engine does the new one have? And what are you finding different / better in the new one compared with your previous one?

It still uses the 1.4 TSi but I suspect that there will be differences to make it integrate with the hybrid powertrain. No idea why it uses this engine when the 1.4 was replaced by the 1.5 in all other applications, as above I suspect it must be because of changes to make it integrate and since the reasons for replacing the 1.4 in purely petrol models do not apply to the hybrid (emissions) they decided not to change.

As for the differences its pretty much chalk and cheese. Its very different to drive but different in a very good way. So far we have been using it in hybrid mode set to "auto" (the car decides how much electricity to use) with the transmission in "B" mode (better energy recuperation). Unlike every other DSG I have driven in the past (and recently) there is no hesitation pulling away, no hesitation deciding what gear to select approaching a junction and no wondering what gear to use when driving normally, it just gets on with life. We drove a Superb 1.5 TSi DSG and I have to say it was the worst auto I have ever driven, it was totally clueless. Forced into a corner I would have bought a CVT any day (the RAV4 we drove after the Superb 1.5 DSG was actually pretty good but not quite for us - and way more money than we paid for the iV). The 1.5 engine in that car was also noticeably noisier than our old 1.4 but that could have been the simple fact ours was well bedded in.

Its early days yet and I have no idea how accurate the the dash display is (or how it calculates the displayed mpg with regards to charge used) but we have done 2 trips to the MIL's on which the 1.4 TSI would have displayed about 50 mpg on a good day (really 48 mpg). On those 2 trips the iV has displayed 58 mpg but I have not fully charged the battery before either trip. This weekend I will give it a full charge and see if it shows an improvement.

Its got loads more kit compared to the old car one feature being the DCC (dynamic chassis control). Reports I have read suggest that it makes quite a difference and is a worthwhile extra on cars not fitted with it. So far we have simply used it in "normal" mode, another thing to try.

Not tried the go faster button either. That gives you the full combined power of petrol and battery with no consideration of economy. It also puts the suspension into sport setting. But with a big heavy barge its never going to be a Ferrari.

Is it worth the extra over a standard Superb, at retail probably not if you are a private user but that would be different for business users (even if they never charged it). But since we got a very good deal the difference between the iV and a broker supplied Superb 190 TSi DSG was not that great and the projected residuals suggest it should recoup that at resale in 3 years. Add in the fuel savings (hopefully) and it should be happy days

From the Guardian - Don't buy a used hybrid from VW - craig-pd130

Thanks for that, sounds good.

Hope you enjoy hybrid motoring as much as I did. It was fun driving in pure electric mode, and in full-house Sport mode too. The extra shove from the electric motor makes the throttle response, well, electric.

I used to switch between modes while doing longer drives: I'd be in 'Auto' mode most of the time, but if I came up behind slower cars on A-roads I'd flick the gear lever to the left which selected 'Sport manual' mode, which gave really useful extra punch for overtaking. In Sport auto mode the BMW box was a bit too keen to change down and use all the revs, which wasn't necessary: with Sport manual I could keep the petrol engine right in the fat part of the torque curve.

From the Guardian - Don't buy a used hybrid from VW - skidpan

Hope you enjoy hybrid motoring as much as I did.

Thanks and I intend to.

I will not be letting all the negative vibes that many on here post about how modern cars are a disaster waiting to happen. If we had relied on that lot the wheel would never have been invented, far to complicated with way too many moving parts.

During my motoring life I have seen many innovations and every time a group of people in the press and in pubs (before the internet was invented) were on their soap box telling us that the end of the world is nigh. A few examples. When rear seats belts became mandatory many threatened to ignore the law (including my BIL) because the Daily Mail claimed many children would be burned to death in accidents. There have probably been some instances but compared to how many serious injuries and deaths have been prevented I think we have proved that wrong. Then there was the introduction of catalysts and fuel injection. We were told the roads would be littered with broken down cars that would cost loads to repair. Personally I know of only one person since the introduction who has had to replace their catalyst and that was on a 12 year old Corsa. I was told I was mad buying a turbo diesel since the mpg would be appalling and the car would be difficult to drive. We had at least one such car on the drive for over 19 years and they were all brilliant.

From the Guardian - Don't buy a used hybrid from VW - bathtub tom

Suspension should last cars lifetime?

Never had to replace balljoints, bushes or broken springs?

From the Guardian - Don't buy a used hybrid from VW - mss1tw

Battery weight won't be kind to suspension and steering either

From the Guardian - Don't buy a used hybrid from VW - brum

Many thanks to the OP for the heads up. Any idea of me buying a VAG hybrid (1.4) is now where it belongs, in the bin.

It was overpriced anyway.

From the Guardian - Don't buy a used hybrid from VW - paul 1963

Many thanks to the OP for the heads up. Any idea of me buying a VAG hybrid (1.4) is now where it belongs, in the bin.

It was overpriced anyway.

Same here, thanks ORB, I'm currently compiling a short list to replace our mokka ( utterly reliable btw) I did consider a vw....but not now.

From the Guardian - Don't buy a used hybrid from VW - _

Many thanks to the OP for the heads up.

Same here, thanks ORB, I'm currently compiling a short list to replace our mokka ( utterly reliable btw)

You are going to get a shock with new car prices!

I did consider a vw....but not now.

We are all different. Kia too have some issues with the 48V mild hybrid sportage. Transmission locking up...

I said back in march that I thought that the 1.6 manual petrol sportage i bought would probably be my last car purchase, so by the time it is out of warranty, there may be no simple alternative.

With the current situation my mileage is about 40% lower so far since getting the new car 3rd march and doubt if there will be any Belgian escapades for the near future.

The sportage ticks all my boxes and the next 2 services are free.

And no I don't want to be a beta tester for anyone,, The MG ZS cured me of that.

From the Guardian - Don't buy a used hybrid from VW - Engineer Andy

(But you can buy pattern parts on ebay)

If they get the same idea that Apple have done, pattern parts wont work unless they are coded to a security chip, idea is only the OEM can repair and no one else can.

which I think will happen on all EVs and Hybrids eventually due to safety concerns imo. which will mean after warranty is up it will be too expensive to repair them.

That was my fear as well - I remember many years ago talking to my barber about his Audi, and he said that many indie outfits couldn't work on them because they needed to by VAG-only computerised diagnostics equipment.

I wonder if this will be the same with EVs (whether tesla, VAG or A N Other), using built-in obsolesence rather like consumer computer equipment like 'smart' mobile phones, tablets and desktop PCs?

The only reason I'm currently thinking of changing my 9yo Win 7 PC is because the motherboard doesn't have the software drivers to accept Win10. Other than that, it works well and can still take AV software...for the moment.

Hardly a green thing when we're supposed to just chuck it all away because some software deliberately isn't compatible or, for repairs of them (or cars) they are just uneconomic to work on once the OEM backing goes.

From the Guardian - Don't buy a used hybrid from VW - Avant

Welcome back, Skidpan.

I was very impressed with a test drive of the Superb IV: bigger than I need but I was tempted by the Octavia IV which is just going on sale. I'd have been very happy with one of those, but in the end decided on balance to go for a 'pure' EV SUV (Kia E-Niro). Now ordered for delivery hopefully in March.

You and I have had good experiences with VAG cars, as I think is generally the case if we look after them and are lucky enough to be able to change them before they get too old.

At least that was the case until the ID-3 came along. The early buyers seem to be doing what IT guys call beta testing. Even the demonstrator I tried had glitches, with the display saying I was exceeding the speed limit each time I accelerated, even when I was nowhere near it, and the headlights coming on and the screen going into night mode halfway through the test drive, with the sun shining brightly.

From the Guardian - Don't buy a used hybrid from VW - skidpan

You and I have had good experiences with VAG cars, as I think is generally the case if we look after them and are lucky enough to be able to change them before they get too old.

2 of the VAG cars we have owned have been kept of 7 years with one doing 113,000 miles. Other than the expected expenses the only issue we have had was the diff bearings on a Golf GTi at 105,000 miles but that car had led a very hard life towing a 1200kg load (the official limit was 1300 kg) most summer weekends for the first 6 years of its life. Cost me £350 to fix it (mates rates) and that included a new Valeo clutch whilst it was in bits. Despite its hard life the original clutch was still fine should have done the same miles again at a guess. Last saw that car when it was 27 years old and to be honest it was looking tired. The owner said he planned to carry out a resto but we all know they never actually happen.

From the Guardian - Don't buy a used hybrid from VW - brum

You and I have had good experiences with VAG cars, as I think is generally the case if we look after them and are lucky enough to be able to change them before they get too old.

2 of the VAG cars we have owned have been kept of 7 years with one doing 113,000 miles. Other than the expected expenses the only issue we have had was the diff bearings on a Golf GTi at 105,000 miles but that car had led a very hard life towing a 1200kg load (the official limit was 1300 kg) most summer weekends for the first 6 years of its life. Cost me £350 to fix it (mates rates) and that included a new Valeo clutch whilst it was in bits. Despite its hard life the original clutch was still fine should have done the same miles again at a guess. Last saw that car when it was 27 years old and to be honest it was looking tired. The owner said he planned to carry out a resto but we all know they never actually happen.

Quoting examples of last century VAG products not even with an auto gearbox has no relevance to modern hybrids as is the subject of this thread. 113,000 miles is nothing in my book. I have run VAG cars almost exclusively since 1970, they were a revakation in terms of reliabilty and (relative) longevity back then. The very best was a 98 Alhambra tdi which I kept for 20 years and 150,000 miles and would still be with me were it not for a combination of punitive VED and a smoke and mirrors scrappage trick pulled by VAG where I got £8000 off my present car. I miss that car greatly.

In between we have/had 4 other VAG cars all nursed to great mileage despite dealers doing their very best to cause me great pain with slip shod service. The longevity is mainly down to my DIY abilities shunning the incompentence of a dealer technician, and to steer clear of some of their more exotic engines and dubiuos auto gearboxes

I have heard enough stories of woe about DQ200 gearboxes, camchains (which I experienced first hand) 1.5tsi kangaroos, 1.8tsi oil addicts, self destructing haldex to know that hybrids and the soon to be released mild hybrids coukd be a bank emptying experience post warranty.

Your mate won't be able to handle the electrics of a hybrid, neither will most indeoendents.

From the Guardian - Don't buy a used hybrid from VW - kiss (keep it simple)

Clever technology can be reliable if it is well designed and engineered. Toyota hybrids have been around for long enough to prove that. I would be wary of any manufacturer jumping onto the bandwagon, especially if they can't offer a decent warranty on the expensive bits.