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Any - Parking Charge Notice - nick62

SWMBO has received a parking charge notice from the people who "manage" the car park at our local shopping center.

She's been done for "not parking wholly within bay" and to be fair the photographs show that one side of the car is over and slightly beyond the white line on one side. No excuses she's been sloppy in this regard, even though she was only parked for 5 minutes max, (in an otherwise empty car park due to local tier 3 restrictions).

The charge is £100, reduced to £60 for early payment which seems excessive.

My question is what happens if we decide NOT to pay this, or is there a way of reducing the charge to a more "reasonable" sum?

Any - Parking Charge Notice - Bromptonaut

My question is what happens if we decide NOT to pay this, or is there a way of reducing the charge to a more "reasonable" sum?

How lucky do you/she feel?

No point in using the parking company appeal route; you admit she was sloppy and suggest nothing in mitigation.

They might escalate the charge and take you to the County Court where, in the absence of deficiencies in signage etc, you'd probably lose. The principle of penalties and what might be charged was decided by the Supreme Court in a case called Beavis. On that basis £100/£60 is already "reasonable".

Since then Parking Companies have been more bullish about chasing these cases in the small claims (ie County) Court. Given the clarity of Beavis judges don't like time being wasted on ill advised and under prepared defences.

On the other hand if you're lucky it'll just get passed down a chain of debt collectors feeding ever closer to the bottom until eventually it's written off. Debt collection alone won't affect your credit rating but it can he a hassle to deal with.

Same thing happened to us. In that case SWMBO spent too long chatting to a friend she met for a coffee in M&S and overstayed the permitted time.

We didn't feel lucky and paid up.

Any - Parking Charge Notice - concrete

I fear that Bromptonaut is on the money here Nick. Pity, but we all make mistakes and I bet she won't do that again. Seems like an open and shut case because she was careless. No point in appealing to their better nature, they don't have one. Pay early and take the discount even though it sticks in the craw. Empty car park or not one of the conditions is that a vehicle is parked wholly within the allotted space marked out.

The only time I got away with it was in Newcastle. It was the very last space in a multi story and other inconsiderate motorists had parked on the edges of their bays resulting in the end bay being restricted. I has an appointment so took the space. Took photos of my car and the ticket to demonstrate I had parked and photographed at the same time. I also showed the other cars encroaching over their bays. The local authority were sympathetic and let me off. I was lucky really they could have insisted I paid having broken the rules.

You are now wiser but poorer people.

Cheers Concrete

Any - Parking Charge Notice - daveyjp

It all comes down to whether you wish to invest the time to save £60.

Plenty of advice and detail on how to approach this via this link.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/categories/parking-tickets-fines-parking

start here.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4816822/newbies-private-parking-ticket-old-or-new-read-these-faqs-first-thankyou#latest

Edited by daveyjp on 26/10/2020 at 16:12

Any - Parking Charge Notice - Andrew-T

What a depressing case. On the basis of what we are told, this is simple exploitation and extortion for no good reason, if the car park was almost empty. Of course technically the car was carelessly parked - the charge notice is just an unfair way of saying Don't Do It Again.

You could of course take your custom elsewhere.

Any - Parking Charge Notice - concrete

The point is that no matter how unfair the conditions seem to be, as soon as you park and leave the vehicle you have accepted those conditions and a notional contract is in force. The signs all state that vehicles have to be parked fully within the marked bay, end of story.

I fully agree it is very galling in a virtually empty car park to receive a charge for this infringement of the rules. I would be inclined to go back to shops you use that rely on this car park and complain that you will now think twice about visiting them in future. It may be they can bring pressure on the parking company to use some discretion. But I would not count on it.

You pay for your mistakes in this life alright.

Cheers Concrete

Any - Parking Charge Notice - SLO76
Over the years I’ve accumulated a few private parking invoices like this, remember it’s not a fine, it is an invoice. I’ve refused their kind offers of a reduced fee if I pay promptly and beyond a few threatening letters I’ve had no action taken against me. A work colleague has run up over £700 worth of fees at the private carpark over the toad from our work and again to date has paid not one penny.

The rules are as I understand it slightly different in Scotland than they are in England but I’d be ignoring it unless a court summons appeared.
Any - Parking Charge Notice - daveyjp

The laws in England aren't slightly different, Scotland has no equivalent law.

Ignoring in England is not an option and waiting for Court is not for the fainthearted. Those papers may take up to 6 years to arrive.

Any - Parking Charge Notice - Bromptonaut

The laws in England aren't slightly different, Scotland has no equivalent law.

Ignoring in England is not an option and waiting for Court is not for the fainthearted. Those papers may take up to 6 years to arrive.

Ignoring it is still an option but one that carries the risk it will go to court. You could wait and see if they issue a summons but by then the costs will have escalated and, with no defence to run, that £60 offer will look an absolute bargain.

Any - Parking Charge Notice - concrete

In Scotland they don't allow their citizens to be tricked and bullied by legalised parking sharks, a lesson Boris could learn when he gets around to it.

I received several of these 'invoices' when we worked on Maggies Centre in a hospital up the Great Western Road in Glasgow, can't remember the name of it now. Had no choice about parking and never caused an obstruction but had to do my job. Over a period of 4 weeks I collected a few and ignored them. Got threats escalating for a while, then a 'soilicitors' letter which turned out to be redundant practice the parking company owned and operated. This of course made it seem quite legal, except the practice was in England and Scottish law prevails in Scotland. They never proceeded any further than threats which were never acknowledged. Can't do that in merry old England. One wonders who got it right??

Cheers Concrete

Any - Parking Charge Notice - gordonbennet

Whilst accepting there are thugs and bully boys involved in these parking outfits, there has to be some form of protection for legal land owners, or other bully boys will take advantage of private property by parking indiscriminately where they are not entitled, depriving those entitled of access to their own land and causing traffic disruption on private industrial estate roads.

I don't approve of people taking the mickey from either side of the argument.

Any - Parking Charge Notice - nick62

Whilst accepting there are thugs and bully boys involved in these parking outfits, there has to be some form of protection for legal land owners, or other bully boys will take advantage of private property by parking indiscriminately where they are not entitled, depriving those entitled of access to their own land and causing traffic disruption on private industrial estate roads.

I don't approve of people taking the mickey from either side of the argument.

Makes you wonder what happens to the "premium" brands I see regularly straddling two spaces on purpose, (normally a big Merc SUV)?

Edited by nick62 on 27/10/2020 at 17:33

Any - Parking Charge Notice - nick62

Update:

This morning I sent an email to the CEO owner of the retail park (ceo@xxxxxxxx.co.uk & info@xxxxxxxx.co.uk). They replied within an hour and requested I forward the PCN, which I did.

They have sent a second reply by return acknowledging the parking company are within their rights, but have agreed to ask that the PCN be cancelled. They cannot guarantee they will actually cancel the PCN, but should know within 2-3 days and will send me a receipt to this end if the parking company agree.

Any - Parking Charge Notice - Theophilus

Sounds hopeful ....

Any - Parking Charge Notice - concrete

Well nick, that sounds promising. Fingers crossed it goes your way. Being bang to rights I expected you would get the brush off.

GB you are correct that some form of protection needs to be in place. But along with this some form of common sense and discretion are equally needed. Despite the High Court ruling I have difficulty in understanding that a £60 to £100 'fine' for a short overstay in just. It simply smacks of money grubbing. This law does not apply in Scotland and having worked there extensively over the past 25 years prior to retiring I witnessed no obvious signs of motorists taking advantage and parking willy nilly on private land. I think the same would be true in England. The vast majority are decent sensible people who behave correctly. I would rather go down that road then give these parking sharks the time of day.

Cheers Concrete

Any - Parking Charge Notice - Bromptonaut

GB you are correct that some form of protection needs to be in place. But along with this some form of common sense and discretion are equally needed. Despite the High Court ruling I have difficulty in understanding that a £60 to £100 'fine' for a short overstay in just. It simply smacks of money grubbing. This law does not apply in Scotland and having worked there extensively over the past 25 years prior to retiring I witnessed no obvious signs of motorists taking advantage and parking willy nilly on private land. I think the same would be true in England. The vast majority are decent sensible people who behave correctly. I would rather go down that road then give these parking sharks the time of day.

The £60-£100 is in line with fines charged by Councils under Civil Parking Enforcement. Those in turn were based on fixed penalties when police or traffic wardens issued parking tickets. Given that enforcement costs money to provide and administer I don't think it's that far off.

I've just been reading a court judgement about Universal Credit and the need for 'clear bright lines' even if on occasion they produce egregious results. Same is true here.

In large areas of England where parking for workplaces and those using commuter trains is at premium people will take advantage and use private car parks if they can get away with it. It's £10/day to park at the station in Northampton. Residential streets within walking distance have to be permit only to reduce freeloading. If shop car parks could be used without let or hindrance it would be the same.

Our local Halfords is near a Premiership Rugby ground. Although signs warn of penalties for abuse of it's small car park there are never patrols or tickets. It's rammed on matchdays.

I suspect there are parts of Edinburgh, Glasgow and other bits of the Central Belt where the same applies. Less likely in Inverness. No need at all in Stornoway, Sumburgh or Lerwick.

Any - Parking Charge Notice - concrete

Very true Bromptonaut and as usual very well put and clear. I agree with most of what you say, especially where parking is at a premium and likely to be abused. There is also a vast difference in the way parking is enforced. In Edinburgh the feared and hated enforcement team is known as 'The Taliban' and rightly so. I have witnessed them deliberately avoid a motorist with a parking query then return a few minute after he has parked to ticket the vehicle. Why not simply inform him of the rules?? Glasgow on the other hand are much more relaxed and fair minded. I still say that most are prepared to comply with the rules and we should not all be beaten with the same stick. Especially where a simple lapse of memory can be punished quite hard for no obvious 'damage' to anyone. Maybe it's me. Probably is.

Cheers Concrete

Any - Parking Charge Notice - Penumbra

Try living near a school.

SiLaw lives one road away from a local primary. The number of times she's had people parking across her drive and even on it dropping their kids off. The usual excuse is "Oh I'll only be a minute" Ba*****dS

Any - Parking Charge Notice - nick62

Update; had confirmation from the landowner that the ticket had been cancelled today.

Any - Parking Charge Notice - FP

Glad you had a good outcome - it was certainly worth investing a little time and effort.

Any - Parking Charge Notice - nick62

The Brownie points with SWMBO are priceless!

Any - Parking Charge Notice - concrete

The Brownie points with SWMBO are priceless!

Well nick, now you are basking in the reflected glow of a million housepoints the time is right to press home the advantage before they wear off. Which in my experience is pretty quickly. Well done and also to the property company too for doing the right thing and going to bat for you.

Cheers Concrete