BMW 5 Series - Dealership’s HPI Check

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Sun 20 Sep 2020 17:44
BMW 5 Series - Dealership’s HPI Check - Eagle23
There’s a huge mileage discrepancy on our car purchased 2 years ago, that’s only just come to light. We've verified the figures by contacting BMW (they are not the dealership we bought the car from) to get the electronic service history (not supplied to us previously) and unfortunately they are correct. I looks to have been clocked by 120k miles just before its first MOT. We purchased the car believing it had 30k but it already had 150k miles. The MOT readings we are now all incorrect. The dealer is huge, branches all over the country. Their website states they do full history, servicing and mileage checks on used cars. They've said the HPI they did 2 years ago was fine. We’ve seen it and it looks questionable. The car way purchased using the dealers finance (HP agreement) so each month we’ve been paying for a car which we now know wasn’t worth anything like we thought. We want to return the car under the terms of the finance agreement but are worried they will be allowed to re-value it in light of the mileage. Where do we stand and would anyone who is knowledgeable about dealerships’ HPI checks be able to take a look at their report for us to confirm if it was in fact a partial check and didn’t include mileage? Any advice appreciated.

Edited by Eagle23 on 20/09/2020 at 17:45

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Sun 20 Sep 2020 22:59
BMW 5 Series - Dealership’s HPI Check - Avant

To have a case you'll have to come up with a convincing reason why it's taken you two years to discover this.

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Sun 20 Sep 2020 23:13
BMW 5 Series - Dealership’s HPI Check - Andrew-T

You don't say whether this car has given you any mileage-related problems during those 2 years. If you have been fooled for that long, sell it on in the normal way after a reasonable length of ownership, and no-one will be any wiser (it seems). It won't be the first time it has happened. The feeling of having been swindled will pass in time.

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Mon 21 Sep 2020 07:18
BMW 5 Series - Dealership’s HPI Check - Eagle23
Sell on a car I now know is clocked?? It’s under investigation by the National Mileage Register. The investigation was triggered by the dealer. Also we have been paying every month for a car worth a fraction of what we’ve been paying. It only came to light when we tried to sell it last week.
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Mon 21 Sep 2020 00:51
BMW 5 Series - Dealership’s HPI Check - privateinvestor

I think the fact that its taken you two years to fund out - so what - the car was sold with a false description - sue the dealer in the small claims court - I bet you they will settle out of court..

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Mon 21 Sep 2020 08:06
BMW 5 Series - Dealership’s HPI Check - catsdad

Nightmare. It’s not clear to me which dealer is doing what. Is it the original selling dealer who is pursuing the mileage check or the dealer you are trying to return it to? Are they both BMW franchises? What position is the supplying dealer taking over the issue? If they are cooperating it’s too early to assume it’s all going to turn out badly.

Your case is against the supplying dealer but it might help if it was bought as a BMW approved car.

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Mon 21 Sep 2020 08:18
BMW 5 Series - Dealership’s HPI Check - Eagle23
The dealer we bought from requested the NMR investigation. They are not BMW (though as big/reputable). Our finance is with the dealer so we want to return it to them. The dealer is cooperating to a point but repeatedly saying “our HPI was clear, there was no issue”, except it looks like their checks didn't include mileage history. On their website they guarantee that mileage history has been checked. I have a copy of the check they did when we bought the car. Don’t know if I can post it on here (anonymised)?
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Mon 21 Sep 2020 08:51
BMW 5 Series - Dealership’s HPI Check - joegrundy

"Our finance is with the dealer so we want to return it to them."

Important point to note here. If you acquired the car on HP/PCP then the supplier is the finance company NOT the dealer and your contract is with the finance company. They are entirely liable for any breaches of consumer rights law, etc.

See: www.businesscompanion.info/sites/default/files/Car...f and www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/files/2914/79.pdf

I would suggest that you put the finance company on notice of the facts in this matter now.

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Mon 21 Sep 2020 09:01
BMW 5 Series - Dealership’s HPI Check - Eagle23
Thanks yes sorry you are right, the Finance company is separate though part of the same group. The dealer has made them aware but we will also be speaking to them.
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Mon 21 Sep 2020 09:16
BMW 5 Series - Dealership’s HPI Check - Andrew-T

Any chance the car may have been cloned, and it's a case of duplicate identity ?

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Mon 21 Sep 2020 09:19
BMW 5 Series - Dealership’s HPI Check - joegrundy
Thanks yes sorry you are right, the Finance company is separate though part of the same group. The dealer has made them aware but we will also be speaking to them.

No. No. No. However 'connected' the finance company may appear to be with the dealer, they probably are not legally.

Your complaint is with the finance company - forget the dealer. Check the FCA website for your finance company's reigstered details Send your complaint to them. They should also have a registered, nominated, 'complaints' person with contact details Send your complaint to them also.

Your attitude with the finance company should be 'WTF have you done supplying this car to me and how do you propose to quickly resolve it'.

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Mon 21 Sep 2020 09:06
BMW 5 Series - Dealership’s HPI Check - joegrundy

You may also wish to point out to the finance company that 'The terms under which the car were supplied to me, and under which I entered into the contract, were substantially and materially misleading, sufficiently so as to nullify the contract'; that the finance company had failed to carry out due diligence and had failed to satisfy itself as to the condition of the goods it supplied under the contract; and that as a result of the failure there was a financial loss; and that this matter will be referred to the Office of the Financial Ombudsman for adjudIcation.

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Mon 21 Sep 2020 09:21
BMW 5 Series - Dealership’s HPI Check - catsdad

Joe you are right of course re the liability of the finance company. I missed that. While I would engage them as the OP intends why would it be appropriate to mention the Ombudsman now? Surely the finance company response is needed first?

i had a disappointing experience with the Ombudsman on a non-motoring issue. They were slow and inefficient and I would be reluctant to involve them in any future case of mine.

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Mon 21 Sep 2020 09:57
BMW 5 Series - Dealership’s HPI Check - joegrundy

Joe you are right of course re the liability of the finance company. I missed that. While I would engage them as the OP intends why would it be appropriate to mention the Ombudsman now? Surely the finance company response is needed first?

i had a disappointing experience with the Ombudsman on a non-motoring issue. They were slow and inefficient and I would be reluctant to involve them in any future case of mine.

Thanks. I keep banging on about this but it keeps getting missed.

Under FCA rules, finance companies have 8 weeks to issue a 'final resolution'. Too many companies see this as a target not a limit (yes, Lloyds Banking Group/Black Horse, I'm talking about you). There was a reason why LBG was fined £64m (and had to pay £300m in compensation) in June 2020 for bad customer service.

I have just - am still going through - won a Financial Ombudsman referral. The car I rejected as not of satisfactory quality on 29 January is due to be collected on 23 September. My p/x and deposit is to be refunded (plus interest at 8%) My monthly payments under the PCP (bar one to cover the 900 miles I did in the car) are to be refunded. And I am to be paid £75 for the b*****ation factor. And yet Suzuki Financial Services Ltd (LLoyds Banking Group) have yet to contact me. The FCA nominated 'complaints manager' Joanne Harris has never replied to or even acknowledged correspondence.

In my experience, the Financial Ombudsman's office were an exemplar in customer service. They always got back to me as promised, they explained things concisely and correctly, set time limits to which they adhered etc.

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Mon 21 Sep 2020 11:44
BMW 5 Series - Dealership’s HPI Check - nick62
And yet Suzuki Financial Services Ltd (LLoyds Banking Group) have yet to contact me. The FCA nominated 'complaints manager' Joanne Harris has never replied to or even acknowledged correspondence.

How do these organisations carry-on trading when basically they "don't give a flying fig"?

I'm seeing this behavior more and more in both my professional and private life. I get the impression that some think it's OK to ignore a tricky email or letter so they can't be blamed for "giving the wrong reply". Talk about "the man who never made a mistake, never made anything".

It's time something was done about crap like this, but I guess there is not the political will?

Edited by nick62 on 21/09/2020 at 12:35

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Mon 21 Sep 2020 13:11
BMW 5 Series - Dealership’s HPI Check - joegrundy
And yet Suzuki Financial Services Ltd (LLoyds Banking Group) have yet to contact me. The FCA nominated 'complaints manager' Joanne Harris has never replied to or even acknowledged correspondence.

How do these organisations carry-on trading when basically they "don't give a flying fig"?

I'm seeing this behavior more and more in both my professional and private life. I get the impression that some think it's OK to ignore a tricky email or letter so they can't be blamed for "giving the wrong reply". Talk about "the man who never made a mistake, never made anything".

It's time something was done about crap like this, but I guess there is not the political will?

I couldn't agree more. In my former professional life I dealt with stuff similar to the s--t that's hit the fan today with the international banks etc. That would include, on a more or less weekly basis, meeting a Circuit Judge (usually over a pot of tea) and making ex-parte applications for Production Orders against banks and others. We liaised with the banks along specialised channels and things generally went well. There were, however, occasions when local bank managers and others up to high levels had to be told that if the orders were not complied with it was the CEO/MD/whoever would be addressing the judge in court in 7 days for non-compliance, not them. i know of one occasion when a judge let it be known that a bank CEO should bring his toothbrush to court when appearing to explain why the bank hadn't complied with his order ...

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Mon 21 Sep 2020 13:49
BMW 5 Series - Dealership’s HPI Check - nick62

I couldn't agree more. In my former professional life I dealt with stuff similar to the s--t that's hit the fan today with the international banks etc. That would include, on a more or less weekly basis, meeting a Circuit Judge (usually over a pot of tea) and making ex-parte applications for Production Orders against banks and others. We liaised with the banks along specialised channels and things generally went well. There were, however, occasions when local bank managers and others up to high levels had to be told that if the orders were not complied with it was the CEO/MD/whoever would be addressing the judge in court in 7 days for non-compliance, not them. i know of one occasion when a judge let it be known that a bank CEO should bring his toothbrush to court when appearing to explain why the bank hadn't complied with his order ...

Sorry to veer off-topic somewhat, but I guess there is the ultimate excuse now our dear leaders decide the law is for others to obey? How for instance is Ryanair allowed to sell tickets when it has still not refunded thousands of would be passengers for cancelled tickets from six months ago?

I have also read that BA have allegedly been up to sharp practice, by saying passengers have been requesting vouchers when they've actually clicked the "I want a refund" button on their website. It really is the age of the spiv, with "Spiv in Chief" at #10.

Edited by nick62 on 21/09/2020 at 13:51

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Mon 21 Sep 2020 12:06
BMW 5 Series - Dealership’s HPI Check - Eagle23
Thank you. We are seeking advice from a solicitor to see what costs we can claim for. Spoken to finance company and dealer today, and sent evidence to NMR.
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Wed 23 Sep 2020 11:45
BMW 5 Series - Dealership’s HPI Check - SLO76
If you still have the original invoice check to make sure they haven’t recorded the mileage as being incorrect on it. If you’ve signed it then it could be seen in a court that you knew and signed anyway.

I was involved in a case many many years ago on a Mazda 626 (shows you how long ago) which we had for sale at £3995. It was reading 50,000 miles but had no service record and we weren’t able to verify the mileage. The car was in good condition and drove perfectly but we believed the mileage to be incorrect and we priced it as though it had done 100,000 miles and someone quickly bought it. Two years later when they went to trade it in a mileage discrepancy flagged up when another dealer done a search (ours showed nothing) and duly marked the cars part exchange value down heavily. The angry customer then sought compensation from us despite having bought the car at a reduced price to take into account the question over mileage to start with and having had two years of trouble free motoring.

To cut the story short, trading standards got involved and it went to court. The documents we presented showed the buyers signature on an order form which stated “mileage should be regarded as incorrect” and again on the invoice. The judge threw the case out and went through the two trading standards officers who’d spent tax payers money pursuing it in front of everyone.

I hope you see success here but your situation is a prime example of how not to buy any car, let alone a complex prestige model. You didn’t take a knowledgeable person with you to view the car, anyone with a reasonable knowhow would’ve spotted such a massive mileage discrepancy in the basic condition of the car and you didn’t ask to see the service record which is absolutely vital to the reliability and resale of such a vehicle. I’d take this as a lesson in life and learn from it.

If the dealer carried out all checks and no discrepancy showed and if they’ve priced the car substantially less than equivalent examples and you’ve signed an order form showing the mileage should be disregarded then I fear you’ll get nowhere and should instead just get rid of the thing as soon as possible either by trading it in or sending it to auction and taking what you can get for it.

Your best hope is through the finance company as already said but again it all depends on what you’ve signed.

Edited by SLO76 on 23/09/2020 at 11:46

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