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List prices - SLO76
I’ve often said that today’s list prices are nuts, They’re wholly unrealistic. I’ve seen a near doubling in price of some smaller cars in the last 4yrs. You’ll see Fiesta’s and Honda Jazz’s with ridiculous £20k plus price tags, tiny city cars approaching £15k and small family hatches touching £30k.

Yesterday I (begrudgingly) agreed to go car shopping and with arm twisted we’ll up my back I bypassed the Honda and Mazda dealers and proceeded direct to the local Volvo dealer so that swmbo could test drive a nice £25,000 68 plate XC60 they had sat on the lineup. Sadly it was sold when we arrived but the keen salesman in me was almost annoyed at the polite but possibly overly relaxed efforts of their man when he simply said that he’d call if something else came in instead of doing as I would do and trying to push something else onto the agenda.


I decided to see what sort of deal I could achieve on a the new in stock model he had sat in front of the showroom. This being a desirable and in demand model with plenty of spec I wasn’t expecting miracles but it took no time to scrub £8700 off the list price of I took their PCP at 4.9% APR and £7200 if I opt to fund it elsewhere. Makes me wonder how much give there is in general with list prices if I managed to get more than 20% off without any real effort.

As for buying the thing well I’m still struggling to get my head round paying so much for a car even if swmbo is paying half of it when I’m happy enough pootling along in my decade old Toyota. I’d still rather buy used and fund it via a low rate bank loan which is probably where I’ll go with this, better still I might talk her into the last of the previous shape with are a good bit cheaper. A Volvo XC60 it will almost certainly be however. Moral of the story seems to be, ignore list prices, they’re figures plucked from the sky.

List prices - Brit_in_Germany

Unless the list price takes you into the higher tax bracket, of course.

List prices - concrete

Unless the list price takes you into the higher tax bracket, of course.

That is why I came out of our company car scheme. No matter what discount was achieved by the company or fleet manager I was taxed on the full list price. Then came the emissions BIK tax hike and I had enough and quit the scheme. Never looked back financially and never bought new again either. SLO is right, the list prices are pure fantasy and can be very discouraging to potential buyers. I must admit though I am very happy with my XC60 and intend to keep it until it drops.

Cheers Concrete

List prices - John F
As for buying the thing well I’m still struggling to get my head round paying so much for a car even if swmbo is paying half of it when I’m happy enough pootling along in my decade old Toyota.

Same here, but then that's SWMBOs for you;-). Thankfully she agreed that we didn't need such a big car as the Volvo......

better still I might talk her into the last of the previous shape with are a good bit cheaper.

...and she needed no persuasion to go for one of the last of the line. The on the road list price of the new shape Peugeot 2008 allure premium auto is now north of 25K whereas ours was 17K. Admittedly it now has an 8 speed box, but I don't think it has a panoramic roof which she particularly likes.

List prices - Avant

I agree with you about list prices, but using them as a comparison for a moment....

The cheapest XC60 is listed at north of £40k. The most expensive RAV-4 is £38k, with a 5-year warranty and likely to do 10-20 mpg better than even a diesel Volvo.

To me that would be a no-brainer (and I'm only half-Scots) but as John says, that's SWMBOs for you!

Edited by Avant on 15/09/2020 at 12:01

List prices - barney100

Prices seem very high now which with the pandemic and people not so keen to spend is a bit of a surprise. Our old Volvo v70 of 142k is in for the mot today and hopefully I won't need to be visiting showrooms anytime soon.

List prices - _

If I had believed my local Kia dealer i would have paid a lot more.

Couldn't find a quote on the carwow system till i showed them, then £2000 more than the best quote, so simply said thanks and left.

Cheapest NEW cars under £10000 in no preference of order

MG3, Toyota aygo, piccanto, citroen c1, dacia sandero which is less than £8000

Edited by _ORB_ on 15/09/2020 at 13:00

List prices - Zippy123

I find the car pricing situation dishonest. If I go in to Tesco, a tin of Heinz baked beans will be 85p, there is no negotiation or haggling.

Why should someone be able to buy a car for £20k from a dealer but the next person in pays £25k for exactly the same model of car because they met a salesman that was less interested in a sale or didn't have the authority to cut prices or the customer was just not as good a poker player?

Dealers need to be more honest with pricing or car supermarkets and online brokers will benefit.

List prices - Falkirk Bairn

Zero mile Volvos for the price of 2nd hander?

www.new-car-discount.com/car/volvo/xc60/estate/pet...c

20% + off

Edited by Falkirk Bairn on 15/09/2020 at 13:58

List prices - alan1302

I find the car pricing situation dishonest. If I go in to Tesco, a tin of Heinz baked beans will be 85p, there is no negotiation or haggling.

Why should someone be able to buy a car for £20k from a dealer but the next person in pays £25k for exactly the same model of car because they met a salesman that was less interested in a sale or didn't have the authority to cut prices or the customer was just not as good a poker player?

Dealers need to be more honest with pricing or car supermarkets and online brokers will benefit.

You could try haggling in Tesco though - nothing to stop you

List prices - badbusdriver

I find the car pricing situation dishonest. If I go in to Tesco, a tin of Heinz baked beans will be 85p, there is no negotiation or haggling.

If you buy 6 of them it will cost £3.00, or 50p per tin, that is a saving of around 41%. Makes much more sense than buying an individual tin............!

Just sayin ;-)

List prices - Steveieb

Front page of last months Which was the XC 60 which received the accolade of the most unreliable car!

List prices - John F

I find the car pricing situation dishonest. If I go in to Tesco, a tin of Heinz baked beans will be 85p, there is no negotiation or haggling.

If you buy 6 of them it will cost £3.00, or 50p per tin, that is a saving of around 41%. Makes much more sense than buying an individual tin............!

Rip off! Morrisons beans are 30p, less if you buy four tins. Adding a splash of Lea & Perrins makes them as tasty as Heinz.

List prices - Metropolis.
29p each at Lidl..

I have found Carwow quite effective for bargaining purposes, not that you are asking for advice! (Spotted after that it was SLOs post.. so edited).

Edited by Metropolis. on 15/09/2020 at 17:27

List prices - SLO76
29p each at Lidl.. I have found Carwow quite effective for bargaining purposes, not that you are asking for advice! (Spotted after that it was SLOs post.. so edited).

Deal I’ve been offered was over £3,000 less than Carwow managed. Agree though that brokers are a great way to knock prices down though, In fact I was a bit surprised at how much the local dealer was willing to drop. Decided I’m not taking it though, the thought of spending over £30k on a car is too much for the car dealer at the back of my head to cope with. A message from an old friend I supplied a stopgap £350 car to a few years back telling me that it’s passed another Mot for a few hundred quid was a reminder of just how much of a waste of money this was. I’ll stick with used.

Edited by SLO76 on 15/09/2020 at 17:48

List prices - Falkirk Bairn

I am 74 shortly, my car is 8 years old and until last week no repairs in the 8 years.

I have been looking for months for a "nice car" but anything I have ear marked did not pass the SWMBO. Her ideas of a "nice Mazda 3" did not sit well with me wanting to buy a reasonably powerful+comfy car - hence I was looking at a new/ pre-reg Volvo T5 S60/V60 ........ but it did not meet senior management approval.

My other choice was Lexus but the car I liked, the RX450, was too high for my wife to get in easily (5ft 1") - the NX300 was dismissed by me as it felt under powered, especially at a £40K price.

List prices - John F

Decided I’m not taking it though, the thought of spending over £30k on a car is too much for the car dealer at the back of my head to cope with.

Same here. I think some people, who might look for food and clothing bargains in a supermarket and wonder whether to tip three or four pounds on a meal out, switch to financial fantasy land when buying a car. Since marriage forty years ago I have yet to spend £30K on my personal cars (TR7 £4250, Audi 100 £4200, Audi A6 £8000, Audi A8 £12000) and I still have two of them on indefinite ownership. All decent motors, no bangernomics. And long may some people behave like this, offloading their barely worn machinery for the benefit of folk like me.

List prices - concrete

Rip off! Morrisons beans are 30p, less if you buy four tins. Adding a splash of Lea & Perrins makes them as tasty as Heinz.

You should try Henderson's Relish from Sheffield. A superior product to L&P IMHO.

Cheers Concrete

List prices - alan1302

Rip off! Morrisons beans are 30p, less if you buy four tins. Adding a splash of Lea & Perrins makes them as tasty as Heinz.

You should try Henderson's Relish from Sheffield. A superior product to L&P IMHO.

Cheers Concrete

Keep your cheap beans! Juts buy Branston ones have have some proper tasty beans!

List prices - Engineer Andy

Rip off! Morrisons beans are 30p, less if you buy four tins. Adding a splash of Lea & Perrins makes them as tasty as Heinz.

You should try Henderson's Relish from Sheffield. A superior product to L&P IMHO.

Cheers Concrete

Keep your cheap beans! Juts buy Branston ones have have some proper tasty beans!

I also buy Branston beans, but due to the beer bug - no offers and they are almost as expensive on RRP as Heinz (which I don't like on their own, but do with the little sausages).

I used to get HP beansm which are just as tasty and cheaper still. Now difficult to get hold of.

How did we go from car list prices to baked beans? :-) Hehe

List prices - gordonbennet

How did we go from car list prices to baked beans? :-) Hehe

Dunno wot Heinz have done to their baked beans, might as well eat the bag for life you carry them home in, we too are on Branston's.

List prices - alan1302

I also buy Branston beans, but due to the beer bug - no offers and they are almost as expensive on RRP as Heinz (which I don't like on their own, but do with the little sausages).


Check out B&M or Home Baragins - often have the pack of 4 in on the cheap

List prices - Engineer Andy

Indeed - I keep an eye out for a replacement for my 15yo Mazda3, and easily found del miles examples with £6k off the £28k - £29k list price. Even so, that's still more than double what I paid for mine (admitedly a lower spec car engine-wise, but not much different otherwise) back in 2006.

I agree that its the Superminis that have gone up the most. My Dad bought an end-of-line (low spec), under 100 miles Fiesta in 2008 for £6.5k. I regularly see 2-3 year old Fiestas going for £14-15k on my local dealership forecourt. Utterly ridiculous.

I'll keep plodding on with my old motor until it gets expensive to keep on the road or new prices get realistic.

List prices - Terry W

The "true" value of a new car may be evidenced by the price paid for a typical 1 year old, 12000 mile ex-hire at a car supermarket. Somewhere between 30-40% off list.

A new car is obviously preferable so perhaps a discount from list of 20-30% is a more realistic expectation. Deals for many models are intermittently available in normal times around this level of discount - overstocking, run out models etc.

The second thing to remember is you are the customer. Do your research, look online, and be prepared to walk. Personally I may be happy to pay a couple of hundred to deal with a local dealer - but you have a choice!

List prices - expat

I am blessed with a great wife. She says all cars look much the same and doesn't see what is better about a Mercedes than a Toyota. She is driving an 11 year old Hyundai and is perfectly pleased with it as long as it remains reliable. She intends to keep it indefinitely. Mind you if we had to buy another car she would want a new one or one no more than 2 years old.

List prices - John F

I am blessed with a great wife. She says all cars look much the same and doesn't see what is better about a Mercedes than a Toyota. She is driving an 11 year old Hyundai and is perfectly pleased with it as long as it remains reliable. She intends to keep it indefinitely. Mind you if we had to buy another car she would want a new one or one no more than 2 years old.

Same here. She was happy with our nearly 20yr old Focus and she is thrilled with our new Peugeot 2008 which will be kept indefinitely.

List prices - Alby Back
Odd critters aren't we? ( and of course I'm no different ) but when it comes to buying things that have had previous owners and users, we're at peace with buying cars or houses or antiques etc that may have had multiple previous owners, but with many other purchases, we wouldn't consider it, unless times were astonishingly hard.

Second hand wellies anyone? Socks? Light bulbs? Hat?

;-)
List prices - Catfood

when the government introduced the car scrappage scheme(Was it £2000 ?) 10 or so years ago. The manufacture added £2000 to the list price overnight..... When VAT was reduced, they retained the same list price, when VAT increased back, they further increased the list price....I guess they will add another 10% list price on 1st of Jan 2021 for all German/French car ?

List prices - Dag Hammar
Odd critters aren't we? ( and of course I'm no different ) but when it comes to buying things that have had previous owners and users, we're at peace with buying cars or houses or antiques etc that may have had multiple previous owners, but with many other purchases, we wouldn't consider it, unless times were astonishingly hard. Second hand wellies anyone? Socks? Light bulbs? Hat? ;-)

In a move that is spectacularly unusual for me I bought a pair of shoes from a charity shop. They are Barker brand, made in England shoes which when new would have easily cost over £100. Polished them as if a sergeant major would be inspecting them and they look as good as new. I paid £3.50. Well chuffed.

List prices - Alby Back
@Dag, may I suggest (shoes, their design and manufacture are my, perhaps sadly, specialist subject) but may I respectfully suggest you re-donate them to the charity shop in short order. Believe me, you really don't want to know what manner of nasty bacteria get trapped in the linings and stitching of previously worn footwear. If you are keen to keep them, then for goodness sake make sure you don't wear them for at least a month after purchase, and ensure they are thoroughly disinfected.

As an aside, for those who don't already know this, it is good practice never to wear the same item of footwear two days running. Even if they "feel" dry inside, they won't be, there will still be residual sweat in the stitching etc, and where there is moisture, bugs thrive. Most of them die off within 24 hours but others are far more robust.

A potentially disgusting fact is that a human adult loses about 2 pints of sweat through their feet every day, most of it evaporates, but some of it gets trapped in the footwear/socks/hosiery they were wearing. Sweat, when kept warm and confined, is a fabulously effective nutrient for bacteria.

Just don't wear second hand shoes. Huge risk of athlete's foot, fungal nail infections and worse.

Very bad idea in short.
List prices - John F

@Dag (are you Swedish?), you indeed have a bargain. Despite alby's doom-mongering you will not encounter any 'nasty' bacteria beyond what might be in your own footwear or bedroom carpet/rug. The advice not to wear the same shoes two days running is only if you have athlete's foot and are trying to get rid of it. Leather soled shoes like Barkers enable sweaty feet to 'breathe', absorbing moisture and drying out overnight.

List prices - Alby Back
Respectfully suggest you are "mistaken" John. I know very little about many things but a lot about this. ;-)
List prices - Avant

He really does know his stuff, John. He's the sales director of a respected brand of upmarket shoes.

Mind you, he'd probably not speak to me if we ever met - as being semi-retired and not often having to dress up, I slop around in Vans most of the time (because they're supremely comfortable, not through any failed attempt to be trnedy).

I redeem myself partially perhaps through not wearing the same shoes two days running; and having been taught by my mum at an early age that shoes adapt themselves to your feet, so never to wear shoes that someone else had had.

List prices - Andrew-T

He really does know his stuff, John. He's the sales director of a respected brand of upmarket shoes.

Hmmm. I very much doubt the quoted figure about moisture lost through one's feet. One normally drinks only 2-3 litres of water a day, plus some taken in with food. To suggest that a large proportion of that emerges from one's feet, compared to the amount excreted, exhaled and evaporated from better ventilated parts of the body, seems to me rather unlikely.

List prices - Avant

Some people sweat more than others, and more when they're hot, or their shoes are too tight, or they're wearing someone else's.

Anyway let's not have a dispute about it, particularly as this thread is supposed to be about list prices. I'm still curious to know why Mrs SLO wants to move from a Polo to an XC60, and whether her husband has suggested that she looks at a RAV-4.

List prices - SLO76
“ Anyway let's not have a dispute about it, particularly as this thread is supposed to be about list prices. I'm still curious to know why Mrs SLO wants to move from a Polo to an XC60, and whether her husband has suggested that she looks at a RAV-4.“


Snob appeal, pure and simple. It’s the poshest of the options I listed when she expressed and interest in upgrading. I have taken her round a few dealers and she’s kinda relaxed a bit about it all and now opened up to the possibility of a CRV or a CX5 but to date I’ve found everything I’ve looked at is suffering from PCP/Contract leaseitis, the service history is usually missing or incomplete and/or there’s been some horrific cheap paintwork done to cover over damage before returning the vehicle. It’s sadly a real problem when one is looking for a good used car these days. As the first keeper will never own it they care not a jot about it. Neglect is sadly all too common.

We went to view a 16 plate CRV 1.6 Twin turbo SE with leather and 30k at the local main dealer but it had never seen spanners, apparently the last keeper was a local engineering firm who “serviced it themselves” but a quick look under the bonnet revealed no evidence of any such thing. It clearly still had the oil it had from new in it.

Next a 17 plate CRV 1.6 DTec SE 2wd with 13,000 miles and a perfect full history of 3 stamps despite this tiny mileage but sadly one of the rear doors had seen a terrible repair using what looks like a rattle can and some of the trim had been glued back in place.

So much for main dealer approved used. In my day they had to be next to perfect with a full main dealer history to qualify. Seems not at Honda.

We looked at a few XC60’s but the prices were getting too close to the cost of a new one with only £4000 separating the 68 plate with the new one I priced up. The 3yr old previous gen was overpriced too at £21k.

The RAV 4 has been ruled out on account of its styling and seat comfort. It’s lucky we’re in no hurry as Polo and Avensis are both running fine so I’ll drag my feet until something right lands on my lap.
List prices - Dag Hammar

Responding to the above, I have indeed left the shoes unworn for a few weeks to ‘air’.

I confess to also having bought a pair of Cherry Blossom charcoal infused inner soles which cost me exactly £1 so in truth I suppose my lovely Barker shoes have actually cost me £4.50.

But I’m still chuffed to bits !

On a more serious note, I have long been an advocate of having many pairs of shoes at any one time and wearing them in rotation. Thus they do get to be aired and consequently each pair gives many years of service. How strange that a throwaway remark regarding second hand items has led to such an interesting thread, on a motoring forum no less !

List prices - John F

I lived and worked in a Northants shoe town for nearly forty years, was shown round one of the factories by the owner, and worn Loake shoes for much of my medical professional life - which involved acquiring an extensive knowledge of bacterial and fungal disease. I rest my case.

List prices - John F

He really does know his stuff, John. He's the sales director of a respected brand of upmarket shoes.

Hmmm. I very much doubt the quoted figure about moisture lost through one's feet. One normally drinks only 2-3 litres of water a day, plus some taken in with food. To suggest that a large proportion of that emerges from one's feet, compared to the amount excreted, exhaled and evaporated from better ventilated parts of the body, seems to me rather unlikely.

Not only unlikely......nonsense.

List prices - concrete

Does anyone remember when Bowling Alleys first opened in the early 60's? You hired a pair of bowling shoes with your match lane. God knows how many pairs of feet had been into those! I wasn't so bad being a size 10 at the time mine were not as popular as the 7's and 8's. Still I don't recall anyone coming down with a severe case of Trenchfoot or worse.!!!!

Cheers Concrete

List prices - John F

Does anyone remember when Bowling Alleys first opened in the early 60's? You hired a pair of bowling shoes with your match lane. God knows how many pairs of feet had been into those!

Indeed I do. And those feet were only there for an hour or two. Hired ski boots have feet in them all day with no facility for ventilation, and certainly no drain holes for the cupfuls of sweat allegedly exuded! (apologies to Avant for another off topic reply).

List prices - Brit_in_Germany

From an NHS pamhlet:

"There are more sweat glands per inch in our feet than anywhere else in the body, and their function is to keep the skin moist and therefore supple. They secrete all the time, not just in response to heat or exercise as elsewhere in the body."

www.rdash.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Sweaty...f

List prices - expat
it took no time to scrub £8700 off the list price of I took their PCP at 4.9% APR and £7200 if I opt to fund it elsewhere. Makes me wonder how much give there is in general with list prices if I managed to get more than 20% off without any real effort. .........Moral of the story seems to be, ignore list prices, they’re figures plucked from the sky.

You guys don't know how lucky you are. Over here in Perth, Australia most of the dealers are owned by two big chains. You have great difficulty in getting them to budge on price even if it is the end of the financial year. Once you get into the showroom they put your details and your trade in rego number into the computer. After that there is no chance of playing off one dealer against another as every dealer knows what the other offered. You ask for a discount off list and the usual answer is NO although I did have one dealer telling me that if I wanted a discount I should buy a Geely!

Oh and the big jump in prices has happened here as well. The new Yaris is 40% dearer than the previous model and the Honda Jazz is getting taken off the market. I'll be sticking with my 17 year old Ford.

List prices - Engineer Andy
it took no time to scrub £8700 off the list price of I took their PCP at 4.9% APR and £7200 if I opt to fund it elsewhere. Makes me wonder how much give there is in general with list prices if I managed to get more than 20% off without any real effort. .........Moral of the story seems to be, ignore list prices, they’re figures plucked from the sky.

You guys don't know how lucky you are. Over here in Perth, Australia most of the dealers are owned by two big chains. You have great difficulty in getting them to budge on price even if it is the end of the financial year. Once you get into the showroom they put your details and your trade in rego number into the computer. After that there is no chance of playing off one dealer against another as every dealer knows what the other offered. You ask for a discount off list and the usual answer is NO although I did have one dealer telling me that if I wanted a discount I should buy a Geely!

Oh and the big jump in prices has happened here as well. The new Yaris is 40% dearer than the previous model and the Honda Jazz is getting taken off the market. I'll be sticking with my 17 year old Ford.

How much of a discount can you get Down Under via car brokers these days? HJ's Aussie 'counterpart' John Cadogan runs his own firm which might get you a better deal.

List prices - catsdad

All those posts about sweaty feet.........thank goodness my second hand wet suit came without boots ;-)

List prices - sammy1

Re superminis Dealers are asking some £18k for 3year old Audi A!s with 30k miles which was probably the list price new .Second hand MINIS are much the same. My advice is to leave the cars with them and not contemplate buying. The way new list prices are going the government will need to lift its £40k ceiling on road tax or the industry is doomed Footwear may soon be more relevant than wheels!

List prices - expat

How much of a discount can you get Down Under via car brokers these days? HJ's Aussie 'counterpart' John Cadogan runs his own firm which might get you a better deal.

That is a very good idea. I hadn't thought of that. At the moment we are content to run our existing old cars as long as they continue to be reliable however when the time comes for the inevitable change over I will look into that.