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Terry, who is going to pay for elevated paths? They're not necessary.
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The one feature that Cambridge council has forgotten to install on their new Dutch-design roundabout is Dutch rules.
They include little gems that UK cyclists may find hard to understand, such as:-
"Clearly indicating to other road users which way you are going to turn is an important way to avoid collisions. By holding out an arm at a 90 degree angle, in the direction you intend to turn, will help those around you anticipate your movements"
https://www.tudelft.nl/en/about-tu-delft/working-at-tu-delft/coming-to-the-netherlands-tu-delft/support-for-international-employees/transport-information/cycling-information/traffic-safety-rules/
Edited by focussed on 09/08/2020 at 10:44
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The one feature that Cambridge council has forgotten to install on their new Dutch-design roundabout is Dutch rules.
They include little gems that UK cyclists may find hard to understand, such as:-
"Clearly indicating to other road users which way you are going to turn is an important way to avoid collisions. By holding out an arm at a 90 degree angle, in the direction you intend to turn, will help those around you anticipate your movements"
https://www.tudelft.nl/en/about-tu-delft/working-at-tu-delft/coming-to-the-netherlands-tu-delft/support-for-international-employees/transport-information/cycling-information/traffic-safety-rules/
Not a surprise. I live on a housing development that was built on the continental 'Home Zone' premise where cars and pedestrians share the road, and there's less parking, etc. Needless to say it hasn't worked out well.
On the plus side for the local council, we all pay full council tax but have to pay out of our own pockets to maintain the development's road, paths, street lights and communal park etc because the roads were not adopted because they amazingly did not meet council standards. Not planned at all.
Meanwhile, the S106 'bribe' gets spent for the benefit of other taxpayers on projects similar to like this idiotic roundabout. Don't you just love local democracy?
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The one feature that Cambridge council has forgotten to install on their new Dutch-design roundabout is Dutch rules.
They include little gems that UK cyclists may find hard to understand, such as:-
"Clearly indicating to other road users which way you are going to turn is an important way to avoid collisions. By holding out an arm at a 90 degree angle, in the direction you intend to turn, will help those around you anticipate your movements"
https://www.tudelft.nl/en/about-tu-delft/working-at-tu-delft/coming-to-the-netherlands-tu-delft/support-for-international-employees/transport-information/cycling-information/traffic-safety-rules/
That equally applies to some car/van/HGV,/bus/coach drivers etc.
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I worked in Holland for two years and found the Dutch to be a sensible race. They have their moments but on the whole follow the rules and are not slow to remind others to do the same. It may be easier to achieve this in such a small country, only about 12 times the size of Cambridgeshire and four times the size of Yorkshire. All of these so called 'planned road engineering schemes' are suspect. Like any scheme if the rules are followed meticulously they operate quite well, but given our propensity to do anything to get 10 feet in front of another road user it comes unstuck. One particular scheme in North Yorkshire saw a roundabout redesign, which resulted in always being in the wrong lane when going round more than one junction. I would force the designers to drive around their schemes every hour on the hour to realise the mayhem their hair brained schemes inflict on road users. Things would soon change then.
Cheers Concrete
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Here in sunny Basingstoke the cyclists have cleverly had cycle lanes marked out, they don't use them as the pavement seems more attractive. They use pedestrian crossings, mobile phones, ride three abreast when on a road and generally have a jolly time from their moral high ground and pay not a penny in road taxes.
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cyclists............pay not a penny in road taxes.
How many cyclists do you know who don't own a car? I do support your other gripes.
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Good question, up in Yorkshire the other week saw loads of people parking up and then off on their bikes.
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Here in sunny Basingstoke the cyclists have cleverly had cycle lanes marked out, they don't use them as the pavement seems more attractive. They use pedestrian crossings, mobile phones, ride three abreast when on a road and generally have a jolly time from their moral high ground and pay not a penny in road taxes.
No one pays a penny in road taxes.
Car, vans, lorries, motor bikes etc pay vehicle excise duty which is NOT a hypothecated tax.
It goes in to the general taxation bucket used by the Govt for all things.
The general rule I follow on normal roads if is is squishy, it has priority.
Edited by Zippy123 on 09/08/2020 at 22:49
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Too close to the nearside kerb is a dangerous place for a cyclist at any time; debris, drains, broken surfaces, slippy thermoplastic paint and in everybody's blind spot. Then add being on a roundabout
I'll carry on using roundabouts like a car, properly positioned and appropriately signalled.
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I can guarantee who none of the people responsible for these hare brained schemes thought to ask for input, and they never ever do, that's long term road users of all categories, and i don't mean planners and their mates who happen to ride or drive 50 miles a week, i mean people who drive or ride all the time and use the roads in the area continually and have done so for more than the preceeding 6 weeks.
I've seen pics and a videa report of this junction, like so many things it looks wonderful on the computer model, when its unveiled on a nice warm clear day with legion of super nukem spotless hivis wearers parading for the media all with minimal traffic travelling extra slowly and carefully due to said hivis/camera convention, again it will appear a utopian solution.
When it's freezing cold dark wet and many cars and other vehicles will have filthy steamed up windows, and unlit cycles/pedestrians dressed in fashionable black from head to toe, all get together, with a large proportion in all manner of transport with a mentality of self importance and priority then all bets will be off.
How easy it is for these apparatchiks to spend, waste, other people's money, never to be brought to account (pun intended) just swan off to the next farce.
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Too close to the nearside kerb is a dangerous place for a cyclist at any time; debris, drains, broken surfaces, slippy thermoplastic paint and in everybody's blind spot. Then add being on a roundabout
I'll carry on using roundabouts like a car, properly positioned and appropriately signalled.
I agree - having come acropper on previous bikes of mine because of debris in the kerbside area AND on designated cycle paths.
A former boss of mine fractured his arm and suffered concussion (for the second time) from a trip over the handlebars because of either a pothole or drain that he couldn't avoid when cycling across London (and on his Brompton bike!). He was lucky to not suffered a far more serious injury, considering the accident happened in the very busy road area in theatreland.
I'm currently trying to get back some fitness for cycling and may in the next month or so may be in a position to try out said roundabout, given I live not too far from it. Trying to get to it without braving some increasibly dangerous single carriageway national speed limit trunk roads means I might need a few more weeks to get the fitness to go the (very) long way!
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"first Dutch-style roundabout that gives priority to cyclists to CLOSE just days after it opened"
Oh Dear - that's a really good start. A car crashed into a beacon and the roundabout has been closed due to "structural damage" .
How much did it cost? 2.5 million as I recall.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8613255/Minor-car-crash-forces-Britains-Dutch-style-roundabout-CLOSE-just-days-opened.html
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I used to live in Cambridge but never go there these days. I hope the cyclists there now are better at their road discipline than they were then. They would come at you from all angles, sono different to this roundabout. The first time I encountered one when driving in Holland I eas well confused. First give way to cyclists on the bright red circle, then give way to cars on the normal roundabout, then, when leaving the rounabout, just when I'd normally be stepping on the gas to pull away, another bright red ring with cyclists to give way to. I was driving very slowly as it was a new phenomenon, added difficulty being on the other side of the road, so all done anticlockwise. I would have thought they might run an experiment first, like they did with the Swindon magic rounabout, to optimise the design. They might have found that they couldn't.
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Not only did it cost £2.3m, it was £1.5m over budget and took four years. Just good luck that the motorist took out a bit of road hardware and not a cyclist.
Probably quite good by many local authority standards!
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My eldest daughter was at Trinity starting in the nineties and is still there at another college. Driving in Cambridge taking her to and from college was a nightmare then so must be hell on earth there now. The pedalists just ride however they feel like, wrong side of the road, wrong way up one way streets etc you get overtaken on both sides by bikes - madness.
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Cambridge taking her to and from college was a nightmare.....
Just imagine how bad the traffic would be if all those cyclists suddenly started to drive cars? I really believe a bike is less bother to motorists than other cars, cabs and lorries are. Therefore don't complain about them, and when driving give them space and time.
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Just imagine how bad the traffic would be if all those cyclists suddenly started to drive cars? I really believe a bike is less bother to motorists than other cars, cabs and lorries are. Therefore don't complain about them, and when driving give them space and time.
Many cyclists do drive cars. When I worked in Cambridge I remember people who used both. They'd behave as a cyclist while on their bike and as a motorist when driving their car. Two of the problems in Cambridge are the students and those with a 'death' wish who have no idea how dangerous it is to ride a bike with no regard for anyone's safety. Another of course is the lack of consideration given to cyclists by motorists, hardly a surprise it doesn't always happen given how often many cyclist choose to go the wrong way up one way streets, that's a common occurrence in the centre of the city.
I don't see much changing without more education, tolerance and consideration for all who use our roads.
Edited by Trilogy. on 14/08/2020 at 08:01
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I drive through and around Cambridge a couple of times a month and I have almost no trouble with cycles and cyclists. I think they have got better over the years, or maybe I have adjusted my attitude - I'm not sure.
Drivers who think they should be able rush about as if the bikes don't exist will have more problems when they encounter them. I'm certainly less of a rusher these days.
I am pessimistic about the success of the new roundabout. The selfish and inconsiderate attitude of a significant minority of British drivers probably makes the design inappropriate for the UK.
I certainly agree about Hills Road. The level of distraction created by 'road safety' measures there brought me nearer to colliding with a cyclist than I have ever been before or since.
Some years ago my wife set off at some lights as they turned green and the car ahead had set off, and was hit in the right front wing by a rider who had chosen that moment to serve off the pavement and across the road. Disgraceful. I do not think this proves anything about people on cycles in general. The problem was just another inconsiderate prat, not the bike.
The thing about driving a car is that you can be an idiot and remain oblivious in your isolation to what a terrible driver you are and many do. Experience should develop competence, some just develop an unjustified confidence in their own ability.
I'd like a bit more energy directed at ways of cooperating, rather than blaming. The blaming really won't solve the 'problem' - the blaming is the problem in large part. Perhaps on both sides. Riding a bike and experiencing the ignorance and dangerous behaviour of some drivers certainly colours my attitude to the rest.
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"first Dutch-style roundabout that gives priority to cyclists to CLOSE just days after it opened"
Oh Dear - that's a really good start. A car crashed into a beacon and the roundabout has been closed due to "structural damage" .
How much did it cost? 2.5 million as I recall.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8613255/Minor-car-crash-forces-Britains-Dutch-style-roundabout-CLOSE-just-days-opened.html
What a surprise, a human using it is at fault.
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