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MOT - No advisory for tyre depth around 2 - 2.5mm - peanutstew

Hi all

Just got my car back.... I need to replace a back tyre soon as the tread is low. I'd guess it's around 2mm-2.5mm. Possibly even a touch less than 2mm. Must put my 20p back in the piggy bank and buy myself a gauge.

Anyhow, I expected it to come back as an advisory and it didn't. From what I've read, advisories are just at mechanic's discretion. Even so, I wondered what people's thoughts are on thisnot being an advisory?

Cheers

MOT - No advisory for tyre depth around 2 - 2.5mm - Bromptonaut

When I first read the thread title I thought it was a complaint about getting an advisory for tyres that were approaching the legal limit.

Advisories are a bit hit/miss. I've certainly had them in the past for worn but legit tyres but also for 'silly' things like the engine being covered - by the acoustic shielding installed at manufacture/assembly.

Bottom line is that if you get an advisory the sensible motorist will check it out and, depending on item and his/her own knowledge consider getting it looked at. Advisories are NOT a back-stop that allow people to evade responsibility for checking their own cars.

Edited by Bromptonaut on 17/07/2020 at 17:52

MOT - No advisory for tyre depth around 2 - 2.5mm - efad2

Last year I got an advisory for two front tyres that were both 4.5 mm What that was about I dont know ott or what?

MOT - No advisory for tyre depth around 2 - 2.5mm - Andrew-T

Just shows it's never a bad idea to do your own cursory MoT before going for the 'real' one - at least for the quick, more obvious things which don't need the car off the ground.

MOT - No advisory for tyre depth around 2 - 2.5mm - Galaxy

My garage always give me any advisories verbally - That's why I go there!

Nothing is ever written on the MOT form

MOT - No advisory for tyre depth around 2 - 2.5mm - edlithgow

Well, you didn;t need one, did you?

Maybe they are good judges of character,

MOT - No advisory for tyre depth around 2 - 2.5mm - Engineer Andy

Just shows it's never a bad idea to do your own cursory MoT before going for the 'real' one - at least for the quick, more obvious things which don't need the car off the ground.

Indeed - it's also why I used to value going to my (then) local Nissan main dealer when I owned a Micra in the late 90s - mid 2000s. As part of the annual service & MOT, they always performed a pre-MOT 'MOT-style' check, so that they could bring to my attention any issues - mostly minor ones that could be fixed before putting the car officially through the MOT.

This of course was far easier before the 'tick-box' computerised MOTs were brought in, as it meant that the checks took less time (some could be multi-tasked).

I always have a look around - especially wrt the tyres, and especially around a fortnight or so before mine goes in, just in case something that could be a fail and is easily fixable can be attended to. I'm trying my best not to break my car's (personal) record of no fails (12 passes) since new.

MOT - No advisory for tyre depth around 2 - 2.5mm - Engineer Andy

Hi all

Just got my car back.... I need to replace a back tyre soon as the tread is low. I'd guess it's around 2mm-2.5mm. Possibly even a touch less than 2mm. Must put my 20p back in the piggy bank and buy myself a gauge.

Anyhow, I expected it to come back as an advisory and it didn't. From what I've read, advisories are just at mechanic's discretion. Even so, I wondered what people's thoughts are on thisnot being an advisory?

Cheers

I would expect it be an advisory (and on a service if carried out on the same day) as a reminder that your car's tyres needed changing soon to stay legal.

I personally change my tyres when the tread depth is (anywhere over the tyre tread) below 3mm, the performance / comfort / noise chracteristics suffer a sudden drop-off, the tyre is showing signs of age (even if it still passes an MOT) or, normally-speaking, is over 6 years old.

Saying that, apparently a growing number of tyres designed within the last few years are designed to last longer (not just wear, but integrity of the tyre itself) than 6 years (what HJ himself used to give as a rough guide to the longevity of middle and upper ranked tyres) - some now making claims of lasting 10 years.

My car's 2yo Michellin CC+ tyres are ones that supposedly are designed to last longer without the usual perfromance or noise/comfort downsides, so I'll just have to wait and see.

Thus far I cannot fault them, but then I normally do a relatively low annual mileage and change them based on age, condition and performance characteristics because they never wear enough to warrant them being changed because of that.

MOT - No advisory for tyre depth around 2 - 2.5mm - nick62
I personally change my tyres when the tread depth is (anywhere over the tyre tread) below 3mm, the performance / comfort / noise chracteristics suffer a sudden drop-off, the tyre is showing signs of age (even if it still passes an MOT) or, normally-speaking, is over 6 years old.

I'm happy for a charitable donation into my bank account whenever you're ready, but each to their own.

SWMBO's 7year old from new low miler is still on it's original tyres and although the fronts are about shot tread depth wise, I wouldn't dream of changing the rears as they are barely worn.

Now if it was a motorbike it would be a different story.

Edited by nick62 on 18/07/2020 at 17:52

MOT - No advisory for tyre depth around 2 - 2.5mm - Engineer Andy
I personally change my tyres when the tread depth is (anywhere over the tyre tread) below 3mm, the performance / comfort / noise chracteristics suffer a sudden drop-off, the tyre is showing signs of age (even if it still passes an MOT) or, normally-speaking, is over 6 years old.

I'm happy for a charitable donation into my bank account whenever you're ready, but each to their own.

SWMBO's 7year old from new low miler is still on it's original tyres and although the fronts are about shot tread depth wise, I wouldn't dream of changing the rears as they are barely worn.

Now if it was a motorbike it would be a different story.

As Andrew T says below, it really depends on how/where the car is stored - if it's outside, then the weather and sun will degrade the tyre, inside and at a more constant temperature, probably a lot less. A tyre that is olf but not that worn, tread-wise may look fine but may well be quite brittle (relative to a newer tyre) and thus its performance would not be anywhere near that of a newer tyre.

Both the OEM Bridgestones on my current car AND the OEM Dunlops on my 1996 Micra went this way - both looked fine, had 3-4mm of tread left on the front and about 1mm more on the rears, but because they were 6+yo, they because hard and brittle and were noisy and, more importantly, terrible in the wet compared to a year or two before.

I agree that as tyre technology has improved, so has their lifespan (I took HJ's own recommendation for the average lifespan of mid-range or better tyres as a guide, as well as the subjective experience) has likely improved, as has how they perform as they wear.

It's one of the reasons why I bought my current set of CC+s, as tests/reviews showed they lasted a long time/mileage and performed better than similar types of tyres when worn. It may be this time around I'll be able to get 10 years out of them, assuming I still own the car then (it would be 22 years old by then!).

MOT - No advisory for tyre depth around 2 - 2.5mm - Manatee

SWMBO's 7year old from new low miler is still on it's original tyres and although the fronts are about shot tread depth wise, I wouldn't dream of changing the rears as they are barely worn.

I would have swapped those round at least once by now and they would all be half worn. You might have got away without buying any tyres at all for that car. Dealers should do this IMO at services.

Habit anyway, but I have a 4WD (best to avoid too much wear difference) and an MX-5 that just doesn't work well with different front/rear grip. We also have a low miles Roomster (25k in 6 years) that I do the same with. It's just gone on it's second full set.

MoT advisories are so inconsistent. I have used a station that often puts advisories on even for trivial things like slightly uneven tyre wear, or noting that underbody covers prevent full inspection, and another that never has.

MOT - No advisory for tyre depth around 2 - 2.5mm - Andrew-T

<< I personally change my tyres when the tread depth is ... below 3mm, the performance / comfort / noise chracteristics suffer a sudden drop-off, the tyre is showing signs of age (even if it still passes an MOT) or, normally-speaking, is over 6 years old. >>

The question of how long a tyre remains usable has been debated here regularly. Apart from normal frictional wear, tyres deteriorate because of flexing, exposure to the atmosphere (primarily oxygen) and most importantly, heat and UV light. It is therefore unnecessary to jettison a spare tyre which has spent most of its life in a coolish dark place. Much the same as changing the oil every 12 months whatever the engine has been doing - or not doing.

Personally I have no qualms about letting my tyres wear down to 2mm, as I presume there is reasonable science behind the 1.6mm legal limit (it used to be 1mm long ago). I try to make all my tyres expire together by rotating them. But I agree that the OP's tester should have 'advised' the wear of his tyres.

MOT - No advisory for tyre depth around 2 - 2.5mm - John F

I personally change my tyres when ....................the tyre is showing signs of age (even if it still passes an MOT) or, normally-speaking, is over 6 years old.

...apparently a growing number of tyres designed within the last few years are designed to last longer (not just wear, but integrity of the tyre itself) than 6 years (what HJ himself used to give as a rough guide to the longevity of middle and upper ranked tyres) - some now making claims of lasting 10 years.

There is much unscientific nonsense still around concerning the longevity of tyres. In 1983 I renewed the tyres on my TR7, using the original new spare tyre and replacing it with the best used one. This post inspired me to check it. It looks fine with no cracks and still had a pressure of 20psi. Can't remember when I last checked it but I don't doubt its 'integrity'. The 30yr old tyres on my 36yr old son's tiny bike which run at twice the pressure of a car tyre are a bit cracked but hold pressure and remain serviceable.

HJ naturally echoes the self-interested advice of the tyre industry which would obviously like their products to be replaced as often as possible.

MOT - No advisory for tyre depth around 2 - 2.5mm - Engineer Andy

I personally change my tyres when ....................the tyre is showing signs of age (even if it still passes an MOT) or, normally-speaking, is over 6 years old.

...apparently a growing number of tyres designed within the last few years are designed to last longer (not just wear, but integrity of the tyre itself) than 6 years (what HJ himself used to give as a rough guide to the longevity of middle and upper ranked tyres) - some now making claims of lasting 10 years.

There is much unscientific nonsense still around concerning the longevity of tyres. In 1983 I renewed the tyres on my TR7, using the original new spare tyre and replacing it with the best used one. This post inspired me to check it. It looks fine with no cracks and still had a pressure of 20psi. Can't remember when I last checked it but I don't doubt its 'integrity'. The 30yr old tyres on my 36yr old son's tiny bike which run at twice the pressure of a car tyre are a bit cracked but hold pressure and remain serviceable.

HJ naturally echoes the self-interested advice of the tyre industry which would obviously like their products to be replaced as often as possible.

My point was that a tyre may look fine, go ok in the dry, but, like the infamous 'o' rings on the ill-fated space shuttle Challenger, the rubber doesn't work so good when they get cold and brittle. And tyres do go that way (more so if the car is kept outside an unshaded) with age.

Having two very hairy moments (which shouldn't have happened) in cold and wet weather whilst on work duties within the space of a few days in my Mazda3 told me I needed to change the OEM tyres (which had gone hard/noisy already). They looked fine - no cracking and having sailed through 3 MOTs by that time. The new tyres cured the issues.

MOT - No advisory for tyre depth around 2 - 2.5mm - peanutstew

Thanks to one and all for sharing your thoughts...

I was well aware that the tyre will need changing, but I also knew whilst being close to the legal limit it was above it. I don't do many miles. Also, I run old cars and so each MOT usually also comes with the thought that if there's too much expensive work to be done it might be time to say goodbye. I wouldn't want to change the tyre pre-MOT only to sell the car for scrap post-MOT.

I recently moved to a new area and so am looking for a garage/mechanic that I like and trust. I didn't know whether not mentioning the tyre was a red flag or to be expected, which is why I thought I'd pose the question.

Thanks again

MOT - No advisory for tyre depth around 2 - 2.5mm - Engineer Andy

Que?

MOT - No advisory for tyre depth around 2 - 2.5mm - edlithgow

Que?

Google Translate.

He thinks they failed his still-legal tyre, but he doesn't have accurate measurements, (he used a ruler) and it was marginal, so who knows?

I recently retired two still-legal Bridgstones at 15 years, because their two siblings had both failed with deep cracks and bulges.

I suspect, though, that my "experimental" treatment of the tyres with vegetable oil about 7 years ago may have degraded the rubber and contributed to these failures.

Can't win them all

MOT - No advisory for tyre depth around 2 - 2.5mm - RT

I replace tyres when they're down to 3mm tread as their performance in the wet has already degraded and will start to fall off a cliff if worn down further.

Some drivers are reassured by the 1.6mm present limit - ignoring the fact that many safety organisations worldwide would like to see it raised to 3mm but getting global agreement isn't easy.

MOT - No advisory for tyre depth around 2 - 2.5mm - Andrew-T

I replace tyres when they're down to 3mm tread as their performance in the wet has already degraded and will start to fall off a cliff if worn down further.

You are welcome to that opinion but I don't share it. One's choice will clearly be affected by where, how and how much one drives, and whether one is obliged to drive in all weathers. I don't like throwing away expensive items with a decent amount of use left. Tyres are junked after about 2% (maybe less) used as it is.

Presumably performance begins to deteriorate as soon as tyres hit the road, so when an official limit is specified I see little reason to add a large margin of safety for the kind of driving I do.

MOT - No advisory for tyre depth around 2 - 2.5mm - Theophilus

Presumably Michelin know something about tyres - and are in the business of selling them (at a premium price) ... so strange, if we should all be changing our tyres when depth is down to 3mm, that their official advice is "With performance made to last, at Michelin we recommend using our tyres until the 1.6mm legal limit of tread."

Edited by Theophilus on 19/07/2020 at 17:22

MOT - No advisory for tyre depth around 2 - 2.5mm - Engineer Andy

Presumably Michelin know something about tyres - and are in the business of selling them (at a premium price) ... so strange, if we should all be changing our tyres when depth is down to 3mm, that their official advice is "With performance made to last, at Michelin we recommend using our tyres until the 1.6mm legal limit of tread."

I believe for them that's a new message - i.e. for their latest generation tyres only, maybe even specific ones. The problem with that is that it is marginal at best, and the law states 1.6mm as a MINIMUM across the entire tyre, so you're risking getting caught as there could be one element below 1.6mm.

Why take the risk? The tyres are the only contact between the car and the road. It's why a lot people (myself included) change theirs at 3mm or by age/general condition and performance/noise/comfort.

MOT - No advisory for tyre depth around 2 - 2.5mm - dan86

Presumably Michelin know something about tyres - and are in the business of selling them (at a premium price) ... so strange, if we should all be changing our tyres when depth is down to 3mm, that their official advice is "With performance made to last, at Michelin we recommend using our tyres until the 1.6mm legal limit of tread."

I believe for them that's a new message - i.e. for their latest generation tyres only, maybe even specific ones. The problem with that is that it is marginal at best, and the law states 1.6mm as a MINIMUM across the entire tyre, so you're risking getting caught as there could be one element below 1.6mm.

Why take the risk? The tyres are the only contact between the car and the road. It's why a lot people (myself included) change theirs at 3mm or by age/general condition and performance/noise/comfort.

I've always used 2mm as the point I change the tyre and it has served me well in the past I have also got rid of tyres well befor because I didn't like the way the felt on the car. I didn't like the Continental premium contact 2e that came on the nissan quashqai after less than a year of ownership (they were brand new when we purchased the car) i replaced with Michelin primacy 3 and they seem the offer a quiter ride and slightly more comfortable.

MOT - No advisory for tyre depth around 2 - 2.5mm - Engineer Andy

Presumably Michelin know something about tyres - and are in the business of selling them (at a premium price) ... so strange, if we should all be changing our tyres when depth is down to 3mm, that their official advice is "With performance made to last, at Michelin we recommend using our tyres until the 1.6mm legal limit of tread."

I believe for them that's a new message - i.e. for their latest generation tyres only, maybe even specific ones. The problem with that is that it is marginal at best, and the law states 1.6mm as a MINIMUM across the entire tyre, so you're risking getting caught as there could be one element below 1.6mm.

Why take the risk? The tyres are the only contact between the car and the road. It's why a lot people (myself included) change theirs at 3mm or by age/general condition and performance/noise/comfort.

I've always used 2mm as the point I change the tyre and it has served me well in the past I have also got rid of tyres well befor because I didn't like the way the felt on the car. I didn't like the Continental premium contact 2e that came on the nissan quashqai after less than a year of ownership (they were brand new when we purchased the car) i replaced with Michelin primacy 3 and they seem the offer a quiter ride and slightly more comfortable.

What I find amazing is how often the OEM tyres on cars are very poor - I know they get deals on them to reduce costs, but seriously? I can remember on numerous occasions friends, family and especially colleagues complaining bitterly about their new car's OEM tyres and how quickly they 'went off' or the poor experience with them in general.

My Mazda3's OEM set were terrible - fine for the first 6-12 months (9k miles), then noisy thereafter, and eventually going very hard and not particularly safe in the wet (from around 5yo), despite still having 4mm or more tread left when they were replaced at 6yo / 43k miles.

The difference between having a set of decent, well-matched tyres on a car and a poor set can easily make the difference between a sale or not (after the car is test driven), all for the sake of *perhaps* £100 - £250 on the price of the car. Wooo!

MOT - No advisory for tyre depth around 2 - 2.5mm - edlithgow

Presumably performance begins to deteriorate as soon as tyres hit the road, so when an official limit is specified I see little reason to add a large margin of safety for the kind of driving I do.

Performance in the dry is going to improve as tread depth declines, and will go on improving until the belts start to show, especially considering that the interior compound is softer and therefore stickier.

Since even in the wet season, its dry here in Taiwan much more often than it is wet, and is reliably almost completely dry for six months of the year, it seems very likely that bald tyres are statistically safer here.

If I come across another set of wheels I might get myself a set of dry season semi-slicks.

This considers only tread depth. Compound ageing effects are another issue.

MOT - No advisory for tyre depth around 2 - 2.5mm - peanutstew

@edlithgow - no, they didn't fail it. They've made no mention of it at all. No fail, no advisory, no "Ey mate, you're tyre's a bit thin on tread and will need changing pretty soon".

MOT - No advisory for tyre depth around 2 - 2.5mm - edlithgow

@edlithgow - no, they didn't fail it. They've made no mention of it at all. No fail, no advisory, no "Ey mate, you're tyre's a bit thin on tread and will need changing pretty soon".

I think you are respoding to my comment on a response to a tortured English post (hence Google Translate) that has now disappeared, suggesting it was a perhaps a spam scout. Wasn't directed at you. Apologies for any confusion.

MOT - No advisory for tyre depth around 2 - 2.5mm - Avant

I'd say 2 mm at the latest: you can't be certain that the tyres have worn absolutely evenly.

You also need to think how long you're intending to keep your car. If you think you'll be selling it within, say, the next 20-30,000 miles, you may as well buy the new tyres now.

There was about 3mm left all round earlier this year on my Q2: 28,000 miles was pretty good for a 4WD. I could have got over 30,000 out of them but I'm glad I changed. The new Vredestein Quatrac all-seasons are excellent: less road noise and a slightly better ride than the original Bridgestones, and £30 per tyre cheaper than new Bridgestones.

MOT - No advisory for tyre depth around 2 - 2.5mm - thunderbird

What I find truly unbelievable is the fact that the OP took his car in for an MOT with barely legal tyres (which they knew about) and then go onto moan about the fact that the tester had not mentioned them.

If they are legal there is no need to mention them, advisories are at the discretion of the tester and knowing what car owners are like in general he is probably fed up being moaned at for pointing something out the owner claims to be aware of. They probably just save their breath and ink and let the owner carry on in what at the time of the test is a legal car.

Personally I would never let a tyre get that low on tread in any circumstance. 2.5 mm would be my absolute minimum but past experiences have shown that replacing tyres earlier than that can have an incredible effect on cabin noise if the old tyres have worn a bit unevenly.

I still find it truly amazing that there is no statutory age limit for tyres. Manufacturers recommend between 6 and 10 years max but I recently saw a very old Mercedes A Class with what looked like the original rear tyres still on it. Plenty of tread but the cracks on the shoulder were deeper than the actual tread. Any old tyre that looks good will still have hardened and have potential hidden problems.

MOT - No advisory for tyre depth around 2 - 2.5mm - edlithgow

I still find it truly amazing that there is no statutory age limit for tyres.

In the works for PSV's and HGV's apparently, according to this consulative document. Probably only a matter of time before they extend it to private cars

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/

attachment_data/file/812495/older-tyres-consultation-document.pdf

They are a bit equivocal as to scientific basis. They quote 2 (yes, not only 1 but also another 1) coroners verdicts, and beyond that say

"Collectively, this research and the conclusions from the Coroners have provided us with evidence that age does affect tyre performance, but in order to remove this threat to road safety we are applying the precautionary principle in this case, to introduce a legislative proposal to ban tyres 10 years or older.""

Note that "but" (my bolding) which negates the earlier statement, which would work better with "rather limited" or even "no clear" in front of "evidence" , Why not "so" ?

A Freudian slip or just bad writing?

Words have meaning.

Edited by Avant on 22/07/2020 at 15:03

MOT - No advisory for tyre depth around 2 - 2.5mm - Engineer Andy

I still find it truly amazing that there is no statutory age limit for tyres.

In the works for PSV's and HGV's apparently, according to this consulative document. Probably only a matter of time before they extend it to private cars

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/

attachment_data/file/812495/older-tyres-consultation-document.pdf

They are a bit equivocal as to scientific basis. They quote 2 (yes, not only 1 but also another 1) coroners verdicts, and beyond that say

"Collectively, this research and the conclusions from the Coroners have provided us with evidence that age does affect tyre performance, but in order to remove this threat to road safety we are applying the precautionary principle in this case, to introduce a legislative proposal to ban tyres 10 years or older.""

Note that "but" (my bolding) which negates the earlier statement, which would work better with "rather limited" or even "no clear" in front of "evidence" , Why not "so" ?

A Freudian slip or just bad writing?

Words have meaning.

I suppose, unlike with most (large) HGVs, which are kept outside, cars are kept in a wide variety of locations that can make a huge difference to the lifespan of the tyre (for the same usage pattern / mileage) - outdoors, subject to the full glare of the sun and weather / temperature changes, to garaged and much less variance in temperature, shielded from the sun.

Edited by Avant on 22/07/2020 at 15:02

MOT - No advisory for tyre depth around 2 - 2.5mm - edlithgow

I still find it truly amazing that there is no statutory age limit for tyres.

In the works for PSV's and HGV's apparently, according to this consulative document. Probably only a matter of time before they extend it to private cars

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/

attachment_data/file/812495/older-tyres-consultation-document.pdf

They are a bit equivocal as to scientific basis. They quote 2 (yes, not only 1 but also another 1) coroners verdicts, and beyond that say

"Collectively, this research and the conclusions from the Coroners have provided us with evidence that age does affect tyre performance, but in order to remove this threat to road safety we are applying the precautionary principle in this case, to introduce a legislative proposal to ban tyres 10 years or older.""

Note that "but" (my bolding) which negates the earlier statement, which would work better with "rather limited" or even "no clear" in front of "evidence" , Why not "so" ?

A Freudian slip or just bad writing?

Words have meaning.

I suppose, unlike with most (large) HGVs, which are kept outside, cars are kept in a wide variety of locations that can make a huge difference to the lifespan of the tyre (for the same usage pattern / mileage) - outdoors, subject to the full glare of the sun and weather / temperature changes, to garaged and much less variance in temperature, shielded from the sun.

Quite common to see various improvised wheel covers in use on parked cars here. I really should stir myself and make something,

MOT - No advisory for tyre depth around 2 - 2.5mm - peanutstew

@thunderbird

I'm not moaning about it. I've come on here to ask opinions about it, as someone who knows little about such things. If the responses on this forum suggest it is perfectly fine for the garage not to put the tyre on the advisories list, then that's great. If the opposite is true, I'll try a different garage next time.

On this occasion it seems there's no issue with it not being on the advisory, so that's all good with me.

Incidentally, there was one advisory: "Direction indicator slightly discoloured both fronts."

MOT - No advisory for tyre depth around 2 - 2.5mm - RT

I find the whole thing about Advisories a pointless mystery - many items on a car are subject to wear, so why is it necessary to "advise" that an item is worn but not excessively - either it's ok to carry on using or it isn't, it should be black or white.

I'm presently trying to source another car, it'll be older so the MoT History Check is very useful, or would be if Advisories were either more consistent or abolished altogether.

The worst I saw was "brake pipes covered in grease" or words to that effect - so what should owners use to stop brake pipes corroding?

MOT - No advisory for tyre depth around 2 - 2.5mm - thunderbird

Performance in the dry is going to improve as tread depth declines, and will go on improving until the belts start to show, especially considering that the interior compound is softer and therefore stickier.

Would be nice in a perfect world but it does not work like that.

Everytime the rubber heats up it hardens slightly and that not only applies to the rubber on the surface, it affects the whole tyre including the carcass. I remember an article many years ago in a magazine (back in the days they actually did tests) when they tested the hardness of tyres form new to worn out using a durometer and the difference was drastic, the old tyres were essentially rock.

About 20 years ago I bought a set of Bridgestone tyres (think it was the RE720) which were sold as dual compound. The idea was there was softer rubber inside that came to the surface as the harder older rubber wore away which in theory gave an old worn out tyre exactly the same grip as a brand new one. They were in all honesty brilliant, had 2 sets eventually but after about 5 years they stopped producing the dual compound tyres and have, as far as I am aware, not repeated it. I presume the buyers did not understand how it was better but buyers did understand that they did not last as long as tyres that slowly turned to concrete.

In enthusiastic driving a half worn tyre will feel better than a new tyre because there is less tread squirming about. Whether that half worn tyre grips better is something to be tested on a track and not on the road.

MOT - No advisory for tyre depth around 2 - 2.5mm - concrete

Only MHO and no science behind it but I change when the tyres register 2mm. Used Michelin on my last car 7 sets plus originals for 215K miles approx. Current Volvo XC60 has Pirelli and at 26k miles they still have over 4mm of tread. I swap the wheels around to even out wear. I am fairly conservative when driving and treat all my cars with respect and care. It does pay off. SWMBO had my old Honda Accord ex company car. I put new tyres on and they were still on when it went the journey. At least 10 years old I would say and still in good nick. It was garaged and driven carefully. Can't remember which brand they were but they weren't premium tyres. I agree that it is important to check these things yourself regularly. The tyres are your only contact with the road surface after all. Not worth taking a risk you don't have to.

Cheers Concrete

MOT - No advisory for tyre depth around 2 - 2.5mm - Bromptonaut

Another vote here for 2mm or thereabouts. Change when there's a bit left over the level of the wear indicators.

MOT - No advisory for tyre depth around 2 - 2.5mm - thunderbird

Another vote here for 2mm or thereabouts. Change when there's a bit left over the level of the wear indicators.

Perhaps Motability should adopt that as well.

Our next door but one neighbours had a Motability car, well it was their son (paralysed aged 16 when knocked off his moped by a drunken lady) who had the car and they used to tow a caravan on holidays. Just before they were due to set off he went to the Motability approved tyre place (pretty sure it was Kwik Fit) to get the tyres renewed since there was no way there was enough tread to get them back home after a 1000+ mile drive. The tyre place would not change them and after speaking to Motability they would not approve a change until they met the criteria. 1/2 way through the holiday they had to find an approved tyre depot and get all 4 changed.

What a ball ache.

MOT - No advisory for tyre depth around 2 - 2.5mm - alan1302

Another vote here for 2mm or thereabouts. Change when there's a bit left over the level of the wear indicators.

Perhaps Motability should adopt that as well.

Our next door but one neighbours had a Motability car, well it was their son (paralysed aged 16 when knocked off his moped by a drunken lady) who had the car and they used to tow a caravan on holidays. Just before they were due to set off he went to the Motability approved tyre place (pretty sure it was Kwik Fit) to get the tyres renewed since there was no way there was enough tread to get them back home after a 1000+ mile drive. The tyre place would not change them and after speaking to Motability they would not approve a change until they met the criteria. 1/2 way through the holiday they had to find an approved tyre depot and get all 4 changed.

What a ball ache.

Motability changes them at 2mm already.

MOT - No advisory for tyre depth around 2 - 2.5mm - Engineer Andy

Performance in the dry is going to improve as tread depth declines, and will go on improving until the belts start to show, especially considering that the interior compound is softer and therefore stickier.

Would be nice in a perfect world but it does not work like that.

Everytime the rubber heats up it hardens slightly and that not only applies to the rubber on the surface, it affects the whole tyre including the carcass. I remember an article many years ago in a magazine (back in the days they actually did tests) when they tested the hardness of tyres form new to worn out using a durometer and the difference was drastic, the old tyres were essentially rock.

About 20 years ago I bought a set of Bridgestone tyres (think it was the RE720) which were sold as dual compound. The idea was there was softer rubber inside that came to the surface as the harder older rubber wore away which in theory gave an old worn out tyre exactly the same grip as a brand new one. They were in all honesty brilliant, had 2 sets eventually but after about 5 years they stopped producing the dual compound tyres and have, as far as I am aware, not repeated it. I presume the buyers did not understand how it was better but buyers did understand that they did not last as long as tyres that slowly turned to concrete.

In enthusiastic driving a half worn tyre will feel better than a new tyre because there is less tread squirming about. Whether that half worn tyre grips better is something to be tested on a track and not on the road.

I had the same model of tyre on my old Nissan Micra around the same time - and they made a HUGE difference to the grip/handling of the car, especially in the wet, especially as the previous set of Dunlops were quite decent until age made them hard at around the 6 year mark (I wasn't complaining - I got around 40k+ miles out of that set!).

A shame I couldn't enjoy that extra feature you spoke of (I never knew about it and went for them as they were on offer for the same price [£35 each + fitting] as some Falkens and had great reviews) - a very interesting concept.

MOT - No advisory for tyre depth around 2 - 2.5mm - Sparrow

When I ran a company car, the lease company would not pay for a tyre change

until one of the 3 readings was 2mm or less. The trye shop would say come back in a thousand or so miles. This often meant tyres having to be changed at inconvenient times.

MOT - No advisory for tyre depth around 2 - 2.5mm - sammy1

Here we are discussing a difference of 0.4mm hardly measurable across the width of most tyres. How science and authority came up with 1.6mm I do not know but most drivers adopt common sense as your 4 tyres are your only contact with the road especially in adverse conditions

MOT - No advisory for tyre depth around 2 - 2.5mm - RT

Here we are discussing a difference of 0.4mm hardly measurable across the width of most tyres. How science and authority came up with 1.6mm I do not know but most drivers adopt common sense as your 4 tyres are your only contact with the road especially in adverse conditions

It's the metric conversion of 1/16" - without the US authorities on board, it could never be agreed as a global limit - getting their agreement to increase it to 1/8" (3mm) is taking forever.

MOT - No advisory for tyre depth around 2 - 2.5mm - edlithgow

Performance in the dry is going to improve as tread depth declines, and will go on improving until the belts start to show, especially considering that the interior compound is softer and therefore stickier.

Would be nice in a perfect world but it does not work like that.

It can work like that, though it wont always.

As I said, compound ageing is a separate issue, Tread depth is all about wet performance. If, for exampe, worn tyres had been worn out very quickly, by "spirited" driving, the rubber won't be as aged.

This has been tested with shaved tyres (and, as someone posted about recently is done in some race series) and shown to be true. Bald tyres are better in the dry, with age eliminated as a variable.

Interesting about the softer compound deeper in the tread. Hadn't heard of that make of tyre, but its general once you go beyond the tread, which of course you aren't allowed to do, and shouldnt in the UK, because it rains unpredictably. I'm '(I think reliably) informed the interior compound is softer because that runs cooler.

Edited by edlithgow on 21/07/2020 at 03:20

MOT - No advisory for tyre depth around 2 - 2.5mm - thunderbird

Hadn't heard of that make of tyre,

Bridgestone is one of the largest (if not the largest) tyre manufacturer in the world. See link below.

www.bridgestone.co.uk

but its general once you go beyond the tread, which of course you aren't allowed to do, and shouldnt in the UK, because it rains unpredictably.

Its not just the rain that means that we should not run bald tyres in the UK. Its a legal requirement to have at least 1.6mm across the centre 3/4 of the tyre with visible tread on the remaining 1/4. Failure to do so could result in a fine of £2500 and 3 points per tyre, that would mean a potential £10000 and 12 points which should be a ban (no doubt some scroats plead hardship and get away with it).

It may be OK in some underdeveloped countries to have bald tyres (in Greece in the 80's even the Police ran on slicks) but give them a sudden storm and they crashed just as well as anyone else.

MOT - No advisory for tyre depth around 2 - 2.5mm - John F

It may be OK in some underdeveloped countries to have bald tyres (in Greece in the 80's even the Police ran on slicks) but give them a sudden storm and they crashed just as well as anyone else.

On a borrowed moped back in the 70s I was pulled over by a panda car for having a rag instead of a petrol tank cap. After a reprimand from a rather intimidating PC, I politely pointed out that his front tyre was half bald, presumably a tracking fault. Collapse of stout party.

MOT - No advisory for tyre depth around 2 - 2.5mm - edlithgow

By make I meant way of making. Perhaps I should have said model,

I said the other stuff you say above, as in "aren[t allowed to", but of course its OK for you to say it too.

I think Taiwan has the same regs as everyone else, but with no sudden rain storms in the dry season. enforcement is probably more relaxed,

Out here in the sticks I'd probably get away with it, and if I didn't I doubt the penalties would be quite so severe.

I suppose I'd better cfheck befrore actually doing it. though

The argument that it is in fact safer would of course carry just as little weight in Taiwan as anywhere else.

Doesnt stop it being true though,

Edited by edlithgow on 21/07/2020 at 10:28

MOT - No advisory for tyre depth around 2 - 2.5mm - thunderbird

Doesnt stop it being true though,

Always amazes me what some people will believe.

Do you read David Ikes books?

MOT - No advisory for tyre depth around 2 - 2.5mm - edlithgow

Doesnt stop it being true though,

Always amazes me what some people will believe.

Do you read David Ikes books?

Uh huh.

I assume that's a snide crack (sadly par for the course) though I'm unfamiliar with the author.

Snide cracks don't stop it being true either.

To do that, you'd have to come up with, like, y'know, reasons?

Reasons I can think of might include the semi-bald tyre being more vulnerable to catastrophic failure. I don't know to what extent this is true, and I'd bet no one else does either.

To make it more dangerous in the dry, that unkown risk factor would have to be greater than any safety gain from the tyres known improved performance.

Is it? Dunno. And neither do you.

But I think my guess is at least as good as yours

Edited by edlithgow on 22/07/2020 at 02:26

MOT - No advisory for tyre depth around 2 - 2.5mm - Theophilus

It may be OK in some underdeveloped countries to have bald tyres (in Greece in the 80's even the Police ran on slicks) but give them a sudden storm and they crashed just as well as anyone else.

I recall when I was in Madagascar a lot of cars running on tyres showing the base cords and no rubber at all. There was an equivalent of an MOT ... but alongside the testing stations were stalls with tyres for hire - it was customary to fit these for the test then replace the originals!

MOT - No advisory for tyre depth around 2 - 2.5mm - Engineer Andy

It may be OK in some underdeveloped countries to have bald tyres (in Greece in the 80's even the Police ran on slicks) but give them a sudden storm and they crashed just as well as anyone else.

I recall when I was in Madagascar a lot of cars running on tyres showing the base cords and no rubber at all. There was an equivalent of an MOT ... but alongside the testing stations were stalls with tyres for hire - it was customary to fit these for the test then replace the originals!

Class. I'm sure some enterprising MOT tester could undercut them by taking a bribe instead.

MOT - No advisory for tyre depth around 2 - 2.5mm - edlithgow

It may be OK in some underdeveloped countries to have bald tyres (in Greece in the 80's even the Police ran on slicks) but give them a sudden storm and they crashed just as well as anyone else.

I recall when I was in Madagascar a lot of cars running on tyres showing the base cords and no rubber at all. There was an equivalent of an MOT ... but alongside the testing stations were stalls with tyres for hire - it was customary to fit these for the test then replace the originals!

I used to do that with brake disks. One for show, one for go...er...stop.

Probably

MOT - No advisory for tyre depth around 2 - 2.5mm - edlithgow

It may be OK in some underdeveloped countries to have bald tyres (in Greece in the 80's even the Police ran on slicks) but give them a sudden storm and they crashed just as well as anyone else.

I recall when I was in Madagascar a lot of cars running on tyres showing the base cords and no rubber at all. There was an equivalent of an MOT ... but alongside the testing stations were stalls with tyres for hire - it was customary to fit these for the test then replace the originals!

I used to do that with brake disks. One for show, one for go...er...stop.

Probably

That was in Edinburgh though. I'm not sure it qualifies as underdeveloped..

I did get a few MOTs done in Cumbernauld, which perhaps does.

MOT - No advisory for tyre depth around 2 - 2.5mm - edlithgow

I find the whole thing about Advisories a pointless mystery...

The worst I saw was "brake pipes covered in grease" or words to that effect - so what should owners use to stop brake pipes corroding?

I'd guess the point there is it makes it difficult for them to check condition. I'm mildly surprised it isn't a fail, actually.

I've heard of fails for oil or WD40 treatment, which could look like leaking brake fluid.

What should owners use to stop brake pipes corroding?

They should rub with crumpled aluminium foil formed around the pipe with a little sunflower oil as a binder. Once it sets it looks quite like galvanising, and the tester will probably never know it was done.

Lasts a long time and easy to re-do if you are under the car, though of course it isn't a spray.

MOT - No advisory for tyre depth around 2 - 2.5mm - thunderbird

They should rub with crumpled aluminium foil formed around the pipe with a little sunflower oil as a binder. Once it sets it looks quite like galvanising, and the tester will probably never know it was done.

The tester will soon spot that I am sure and it will certainly alert him to a bodge.

Brakes are safety critical. Owners should ensure that such systems are safe and I don't think aluminium foil and sunflower oil are MOT standard fixes in the UK.

MOT - No advisory for tyre depth around 2 - 2.5mm - RT

They should rub with crumpled aluminium foil formed around the pipe with a little sunflower oil as a binder. Once it sets it looks quite like galvanising, and the tester will probably never know it was done.

The tester will soon spot that I am sure and it will certainly alert him to a bodge.

Brakes are safety critical. Owners should ensure that such systems are safe and I don't think aluminium foil and sunflower oil are MOT standard fixes in the UK.

So what is the best way to stop brake pipes corroding?

MOT - No advisory for tyre depth around 2 - 2.5mm - thunderbird

So what is the best way to stop brake pipes corroding?

I fitted new ones on one of our cars over 20 years ago, I used Kunifer but I took the old pipes to a local chap and he flared and fitted the right fittings for me.. As soon as they were on I coated them with Waxoyl (the clear one) and when I took the car for an MOT today they still looked as good as the day they were fitted.

If the tester wished to I would have no issue with him wiping it off with a little white spirit, I would simply re coat it when I got home. The current chap has been testing it for me now for about 10 years at least and has never raised an eyebrow.

MOT - No advisory for tyre depth around 2 - 2.5mm - edlithgow

I wouldnt have thought you'd need the Waxoyl with Kunifer, though perhaps it protects the joint fittings.

I bought a roll of kunifer and a brake flaring tool when I was first back in the UK on a visit, but then I developed the oil-foil trick and havn't been able to justify using it.

GF brings it up regularly as an argument-winning example of the money I waste on tools that I never use.

Hmm.. maybe I CAN justify using it, on political grounds.

MOT - No advisory for tyre depth around 2 - 2.5mm - Engineer Andy

They should rub with crumpled aluminium foil formed around the pipe with a little sunflower oil as a binder. Once it sets it looks quite like galvanising, and the tester will probably never know it was done.

The tester will soon spot that I am sure and it will certainly alert him to a bodge.

Brakes are safety critical. Owners should ensure that such systems are safe and I don't think aluminium foil and sunflower oil are MOT standard fixes in the UK.

So what is the best way to stop brake pipes corroding?

Corrosion resistant paint?

MOT - No advisory for tyre depth around 2 - 2.5mm - John F

So what is the best way to stop brake pipes corroding?

Corrosion resistant paint?

Cleaning and greasing occasionally is sufficient. That's what I do - never failed an MoT yet. Focus nearly 20yrs old; TR7, Ziebarted from new, 40yrs old. A bit of light corrosion is a green light for coining it for the unscrupulous garage. When I bought my Audi A8 it had already had an MoT advisory, at only 8yrs and 47,700 miles, for a lightly corroded brake pipe to one of the front calipers - which was enough for the previous owner to get replaced - and to be charged a fortune.

This sort of scam is a huge source of income for the garage industry which preys on the fears of a sudden brake failure, not mentioning that even in the unlikely event of sudden rupture, modern braking systems ensure that other wheels would be braked and the dashboard would have already come alive with red lights and bells as the fluid drained away. A bit of light sanding and a dab of Hammerite would have sufficed.

MOT - No advisory for tyre depth around 2 - 2.5mm - thunderbird

They should rub with crumpled aluminium foil formed around the pipe with a little sunflower oil as a binder. Once it sets it looks quite like galvanising, and the tester will probably never know it was done.

The tester will soon spot that I am sure and it will certainly alert him to a bodge.

Brakes are safety critical. Owners should ensure that such systems are safe and I don't think aluminium foil and sunflower oil are MOT standard fixes in the UK.

So what is the best way to stop brake pipes corroding?

Corrosion resistant paint?

Paint is the last thing I would use. Unless the pipe is totally rust and contamination free it will not stay on and possobly make things worse with moisture trapped under the paint.

As I said above waxoyl (or other similar rust proofing wax) is without a doubt the best stuff.

MOT - No advisory for tyre depth around 2 - 2.5mm - Engineer Andy

They should rub with crumpled aluminium foil formed around the pipe with a little sunflower oil as a binder. Once it sets it looks quite like galvanising, and the tester will probably never know it was done.

The tester will soon spot that I am sure and it will certainly alert him to a bodge.

Brakes are safety critical. Owners should ensure that such systems are safe and I don't think aluminium foil and sunflower oil are MOT standard fixes in the UK.

So what is the best way to stop brake pipes corroding?

Corrosion resistant paint?

Paint is the last thing I would use. Unless the pipe is totally rust and contamination free it will not stay on and possobly make things worse with moisture trapped under the paint.

As I said above waxoyl (or other similar rust proofing wax) is without a doubt the best stuff.

Indeed I was meaning put the 'paint' on when the pipe is new. What about that specific red coloured paint used by commercial fitters on HVAC pipes, particularly larger (steel) heating or chilled water pipes - that's an anti-corrosion paint I believe?

MOT - No advisory for tyre depth around 2 - 2.5mm - edlithgow

They should rub with crumpled aluminium foil formed around the pipe with a little sunflower oil as a binder. Once it sets it looks quite like galvanising, and the tester will probably never know it was done.

The tester will soon spot that I am sure and it will certainly alert him to a bodge.

Well, if I ever have to get an old car through a UK MOT again, we can have a bet.

I'll give you odds if you like.

This assumes that the pipes arent really bad before treatment, While I think this treatment probably could hide fairly bad corrosion, that isn't what its for and isn't what I'm advocating,

Borderline-picky corrosion, maybe

MOT - No advisory for tyre depth around 2 - 2.5mm - thunderbird

Just spotted the best MOT advisory ever. A couple of days ago I was sat behind a 55 plate Focus when it slowly dawned on me it was our old car, the one we PX'd against the Pulsar early in 2018. It still looked decent for what is now a 14 and a bit year old car so just been on .gov MOT check to see how its been doing.

At its last MOT back in December last year (which it past) there was an advisory for "engine noisy". Its a diesel, they tend to be. I followed the car for a couple of miles and there was no visible smoke (no DPF on that car) so I assumed at the time it was still in good fettle and since it passed the MOT it must have passed the emissions part. So what the hell was the noisy engine about?

MOT - No advisory for tyre depth around 2 - 2.5mm - edlithgow

So what the hell was the noisy engine about?

Hangover?

MOT - No advisory for tyre depth around 2 - 2.5mm - Xileno

One of my first jobs on buying a car is to get some Waxoyl on the brake pipes. Any other areas of the underneath should there be any light corrosion I prefer Dinitrol. One of our cars is an old Focus (2007), it's spotless underneath, in fact at the last MoT the tester commented on how good it was.