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Land Rover Range Rover - Proper Reliability Test by Brand.. (Guess who is b - madf

CarWow did a detailed analysis of Used Cars up to 9 years old based on warranty information .

Guess the first and last..

The video... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUIK7K_q8eY

And for those in a hurry...

Most Reliable Cars 29: Land Rover 1:07 28: Porsche 1:30 27: Jaguar 2:00 26: Chevrolet 2:21 25: Alfa Romeo 2:46 24: Audi 3:19 23: BMW 3:42 22: Mercedes 4:30 21: Mitsubishi 4:54 20: Mini 5:30 19: Seat 5:57 18: Volkswagen 6:16 17: Citroen 6:39 16: Vauxhall 7:00 15: Volvo 7:25 14: Skoda 8:10 13: Peugeot 8:30 12: Nissan 8:58 11: Mazda 9:30 10: Renault 9:56 9: Ford 10:19 8: Kia 11:02 7: Suzuki 11:22 6: Fiat 11:48 5: Hyundai 12:12 4: Smart 12:36 3: Toyota 13:02 2: Lexus 13:22 1: Honda 14:14

So no surprises there then.....

Land Rover Range Rover - Proper Reliability Test by Brand.. (Guess who is b - daveyK_UK
Fiat higher than Mazda?

Is that due to the dreadful Mazda Diesel engines?
Land Rover Range Rover - Proper Reliability Test by Brand.. (Guess who is b - Engineer Andy
Fiat higher than Mazda? Is that due to the dreadful Mazda Diesel engines?

Probably, but the unreliability of the rotary-engined RX-8s plays a part, because too many owners use them for short trips, which knackers the engine and especially the CAT.

Similarly, many of the diesel-engined cars' woes can be (mostly) avoided if the owners drive them as originally intended - mainly on longer trips where the car gets properly warmed up and thus the DPF passively regens all the time.

Unfortunately for Mazda, they made a BIG push to sell diesels from the early 2000s up until they (finally) learned their less in 2019 and dropped them from a large number of models. I would say that up until the middle of last year, 2/3rds - 3/4s of second hand Mazdas that were on dealer forecourts that were under 4 years old were diesels.

It's not as though they were all ex-hire or fleet cars - I've never seen them offered as hire cars in the UK and I bet few are 'fleet' company car - most are private cash sale/PCP, even if the buyer uses their company's 'car allowance' to help pay for it.

Too many people bought diesel models when their driving pattern/annual mileage profile said they should've bought a petrol-engined car. Now they and especially Mazda are paying the price. Rarely do I hear of any problems on the petrol-engined (no-rotary engined) cars.

Still, 11th ain't that bad.

Edited by Engineer Andy on 10/07/2020 at 12:25

Land Rover Range Rover - Proper Reliability Test by Brand.. (Guess who is b - madf

Sunaru not in list - probably too few cars sold.

Lots of Subaru diesels c 10 years old with broken engines - mainly crankshafts.

tinyurl.com/y7894p29

Edited by madf on 10/07/2020 at 13:37

Land Rover Range Rover - Proper Reliability Test by Brand.. (Guess who is b - pd

Mazda got into trouble with their diesels because they were a crap design. Other manufacturers seem to be able to make diesel engines which, no matter how you use the car, do not need a new engine at 70k miles.

Land Rover Range Rover - Proper Reliability Test by Brand.. (Guess who is b - mcb100

Sadly, as a Mazda fan, I don't think RX-8 can be blamed. It went out of production in 2012 so only just scrapes into the up to nine year old category.

There was also a problem on the diesels with lack of compatibility between cams and followers, which led to the resultant 'swarf' blocking the vacuum pumps and blocking oil supply to the turbo.

Edited by mcb100 on 10/07/2020 at 14:29

Land Rover Range Rover - Proper Reliability Test by Brand.. (Guess who is b - Trilogy.

L-R and R-R owners won't be bothered.

Land Rover Range Rover - Proper Reliability Test by Brand.. (Guess who is b - 72 dudes

Renault and Citroen more reliable than Seat, VW and Audi.

Come on you French car haters, how are you going to rationalise that one?

Says the guy who has two Mercs and a Volvo in the household, just in case you think I'm a Francophile.

Land Rover Range Rover - Proper Reliability Test by Brand.. (Guess who is b - pd

Reliability is not a big seller. It is not very high up on car purchasers' lists.

If reliability sold the Nissan Bluebird and Toyota Carina E would have been world best sellers and put everyone else out of business.

Land Rover Range Rover - Proper Reliability Test by Brand.. (Guess who is b - thunderbird

Reliability is not a big seller. It is not very high up on car purchasers' lists.

If reliability sold the Nissan Bluebird and Toyota Carina E would have been world best sellers and put everyone else out of business.

The wifes Bluebird was nothing to write home about reliability wise. Gearbox failed at 48,000 miles and Nissan never cured the power steering leak. We finally gave up on the thing when the radiator started leaking like a sieve and it lost compression on No 3 cylinder.

We looked at a Carina E to replace it found a really nice 6 month old one but the build quality seemed poor and very flimsy.

Land Rover Range Rover - Proper Reliability Test by Brand.. (Guess who is b - Trilogy.

We looked at a Carina E to replace it found a really nice 6 month old one but the build quality seemed poor and very flimsy.

Carina E was good for 400,000 miles plus. Nothing wrong with build quality..

Land Rover Range Rover - Proper Reliability Test by Brand.. (Guess who is b - dan86

We looked at a Carina E to replace it found a really nice 6 month old one but the build quality seemed poor and very flimsy.

Carina E was good for 400,000 miles plus. Nothing wrong with build quality..

both were minicab drivers tool of choice back in the day.

Land Rover Range Rover - Proper Reliability Test by Brand.. (Guess who is b - Engineer Andy

We looked at a Carina E to replace it found a really nice 6 month old one but the build quality seemed poor and very flimsy.

Carina E was good for 400,000 miles plus. Nothing wrong with build quality..

There's one of these in my town - still going strong after God-knowns how many miles. I can't see most modern cars lasting that long these days - built-in obsolescence and all.

Land Rover Range Rover - Proper Reliability Test by Brand.. (Guess who is b - thunderbird

We looked at a Carina E to replace it found a really nice 6 month old one but the build quality seemed poor and very flimsy.

Carina E was good for 400,000 miles plus. Nothing wrong with build quality.

We bought a Golf, its build quality was in a different league and at the time the price new was about the same. We had it from 1996 to 2006 and other than tyres, front brake pads and a back box nothing was spent other than servicing. Brilliant car.

Land Rover Range Rover - Proper Reliability Test by Brand.. (Guess who is b - Trilogy.

We bought a Golf, its build quality was in a different league and at the time the price new was about the same. We had it from 1996 to 2006 and other than tyres, front brake pads and a back box nothing was spent other than servicing. Brilliant car.

Carina build quality would have been better where it mattered. That's why they were used as taxis here instead of Golfs. Legendary reliability with the Carina E, nicer looking than the Golf from that time too, but just about every car was better looking than a Golf MK3, not a difficult achievement. Little love now for those.

Land Rover Range Rover - Proper Reliability Test by Brand.. (Guess who is b - thunderbird

We bought a Golf, its build quality was in a different league and at the time the price new was about the same. We had it from 1996 to 2006 and other than tyres, front brake pads and a back box nothing was spent other than servicing. Brilliant car.

Carina build quality would have been better where it mattered. That's why they were used as taxis here instead of Golfs. Legendary reliability with the Carina E, nicer looking than the Golf from that time too, but just about every car was better looking than a Golf MK3, not a difficult achievement. Little love now for those.

Just had a look on the interweb to check facts. There is probably little love for either since the Carina E and Golf Mk 3 both ceased production in 1997, the newest of either will be 23 years.

Looked on "how many left", no idea how to use the site but the Carina E was fairly simple, only one page of derivatives and the total left in Jan this year was approx 1300.

More difficult with the Golf since they are not in year order and there are 19 pages. So I selected the variants that I remember being a Mk 3 and only including those that peaked in 1997 i.e. the year the model was deleted. After 3 of those 19 pages I already had 1649 cars on the road. But if you look at the Mk 3 VR6 they seem to have done particularly well considering they did not sell that many, 653 left but in truth they are probably loved. That brings the total to over 2300 and more if I could be bothered to look

No point in counting further, more Mk 3 Golfs left.

Edited by thunderbird on 11/07/2020 at 15:39

Land Rover Range Rover - Proper Reliability Test by Brand.. (Guess who is b - Andrew-T

<< We bought a Golf, its build quality was in a different league >>

There are two sides to 'build quality' - how well it is put together, and how long it lasts before corrosion undoes all the good work. I suppose new buyers are more interested in the first, used buyers the second. Not many marques meet both criteria ?

Land Rover Range Rover - Proper Reliability Test by Brand.. (Guess who is b - thunderbird

<< We bought a Golf, its build quality was in a different league >>

There are two sides to 'build quality' - how well it is put together, and how long it lasts before corrosion undoes all the good work. I suppose new buyers are more interested in the first, used buyers the second. Not many marques meet both criteria ?

Just checked the MOT history of that Golf, it was a February 1996 GL TDi. and we PX's it early in 2006 with just over 110,000 miles on the clock and virtually no MOT.

It passed its last MOT in June 2012 with 182,331 miles on the clock without failing and with no advisories. If it carried on until June 2013 it would have been over 17 years old and approaching 200,000 miles.

In 2011 it failed for a sharp edge on the NSF wing due to corrosion, that wing was replaced in 1999 approx (by the VW dealer) when the wife hit or own front wall. As always they do not protect replacement parts as well as factory originals.

Before we sold it in early 2006 up to then no MOT failures and from memory no advisories (did they exist 14 years ago?). After that (other than the wing noted above) the only corrosion mentioned in MOT's was failing on brake pipes 3 times and rather worryingly one advisory for corrosion in a rear seat belt mount. Never mentioned again so it was either fixed or just a try on by the garage.

So it seems to me that corrosion was unlikely to be the reason for the death of that car. Since it was not presented in 2013 for an MOT either the engine (or other major mechanical component) had failed or an accident had caused it premature demise.

You cannot get much better that IMHO.

Land Rover Range Rover - Proper Reliability Test by Brand.. (Guess who is b - Andrew-T

<< Before we sold it in early 2006 up to then no MOT failures and from memory no advisories (did they exist 14 years ago?) >>

They certainly did exist in 2006 (I've just checked) but that is as far back as one can look online.

Land Rover Range Rover - Proper Reliability Test by Brand.. (Guess who is b - Engineer Andy

Sadly, as a Mazda fan, I don't think RX-8 can be blamed. It went out of production in 2012 so only just scrapes into the up to nine year old category.

There was also a problem on the diesels with lack of compatibility between cams and followers, which led to the resultant 'swarf' blocking the vacuum pumps and blocking oil supply to the turbo.

I still see some owners having their RX-8 serviced/maintained at my local main dealer. They still have those problems I mentioned, because they think it's a 'weekend car' but also use it for short trips to the shops, which ruins them.

I suspect most of the reliability woes are diesel-related. Whenever I see long-term owners like me getting their car serviced, 9 times out of 10 it's a petrol-engined car. At least Mazda finnaly saw the light and are increasingly dropping diesels from their passenger car range. The 'all new' 1.8TD (which replaced the 1.5 and 2.2TD in the CX-3 and 3) lasted about a year before being dropped.

Land Rover Range Rover - Proper Reliability Test by Brand.. (Guess who is b - pd

. At least Mazda finnaly saw the light and are increasingly dropping diesels from their passenger car range. The 'all new' 1.8TD (which replaced the 1.5 and 2.2TD in the CX-3 and 3) lasted about a year before being dropped.

They could have just done what most other manufacturers have managed and just design an engine which worked.

Land Rover Range Rover - Proper Reliability Test by Brand.. (Guess who is b - mcb100

Not just Mazda dropping diesel - we're seeing the last generation of diesel engines in passenger cars now, in my view. Petrol engine development is continuing (SKYACTIV-X, for example, or increased efficiencies to mate with hybrid systems), but I'll be amazed if we see any more 'clean sheet' diesel designs appearing. The world's largest manufacturer (Toyota) has dropped diesel all together, and they won't be the last.

Land Rover Range Rover - Proper Reliability Test by Brand.. (Guess who is b - misar

Its worth remembering that diesel passenger cars were strictly a European obsession fuelled by regulation. In almost every other major market their share never reached more than a percent or two. I imagine all the Asian manufacturers will be happy to get shot of them asap.

Land Rover Range Rover - Proper Reliability Test by Brand.. (Guess who is b - madf

"The world's largest manufacturer (Toyota) has dropped diesel all together, and they won't be the last"

I think they still sell Hiace and Land Cruisers with diesel engines?

Land Rover Range Rover - Proper Reliability Test by Brand.. (Guess who is b - thunderbird

Its worth remembering that diesel passenger cars were strictly a European obsession fuelled by regulation

We didn't have 3 diesel cars because of the regulations, we had 3 diesel cars because they were very economical and at the time drove way better than most N/A petrols on sale.

Today we drive 2 turbo petrol car and the reason is simple, they drive better than any turbo diesel ever did and in the case of the Fabia is probably just as economical.

Land Rover Range Rover - Proper Reliability Test by Brand.. (Guess who is b - John F

The most amusing part of this OP's attachment was the link to how long a car engine will run for at maximum revs with no oil or coolant. The Honda even restarted when cola was poured into the empty sump!

Land Rover Range Rover - Proper Reliability Test by Brand.. (Guess who is b - thunderbird

The most amusing part of this OP's attachment was the link to how long a car engine will run for at maximum revs with no oil or coolant. The Honda even restarted when cola was poured into the empty sump!

There is your solution to the expense of changing your oil every 6 or so years. Cola is way cheaper than oil so why not give it a go.

Land Rover Range Rover - Proper Reliability Test by Brand.. (Guess who is b - pd

Petrol has made a short term come back in small to medium sized cars as the latest petrols do much what a diesel did but are smoother and less polluting. I don't think larger cars will ever switch back to petrol in Europe - at the moment diesel still dominates but not for long as they will/are switching to full electric or primarily hybrid.

ICE will obviously be gone even in smaller cars in 10 years time, I assume they will be heading electric but the battery costs will have to come down a bit before it works for cheap cars.

Land Rover Range Rover - Proper Reliability Test by Brand.. (Guess who is b - thunderbird

Petrol has made a short term come back in small to medium sized cars as the latest petrols do much what a diesel did but are smoother and less polluting.

What we think of as small cars today are the same size pretty much as what we considered medium cars 25 years ago.

Example: we bought a Mk 3 Golf TDi 90 back in 1996 and currently have a 2018 Fabia 1.0 TSi 110. Externally the dimensions of the Fabia are virtually identical to thos of the Golf but due to the fact that the Fabia was never designed to carry the 1.9 boat anchor under the bonnet (or even the VR6) the interior and boot space is better in the Fabia.

Then there is the petrol vs diesel argument. In 1996 the Golf seemed brilliant compered to the asthmatic petrols available back then for both performance and economy but 24 years later the petrol Fabia betters the Golf in both respects.

Back in 1996 we paid about £14500 for the Golf, the best price for a brand new Fabia 110 TSi today after discounts and contributions is only £15000.

We are so lucky these days comapred to just 24 years ago. The Golf might have seemed economical (48 mpg overall) but in reality it was a polluting dinosaur.

Land Rover Range Rover - Proper Reliability Test by Brand.. (Guess who is b - Andrew-T

Cola is way cheaper than oil so why not give it a go.

Is it, volume for volume ? I'd be surprised. Petrol is several times cheaper than beer by volume.

Land Rover Range Rover - Proper Reliability Test by Brand.. (Guess who is b - _

Cola is way cheaper than oil so why not give it a go.

Is it, volume for volume ? I'd be surprised. Petrol is several times cheaper than beer by volume.

I'd rather drink beer than cola..

Land Rover Range Rover - Proper Reliability Test by Brand.. (Guess who is b - Steveieb

What a surprise. Renaults will never be called the “Diamond of Doom”again after this performance !