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Skoda Octavia Mk3 1.5 TSI DSG hatch - New Car Oil & Filter Change at 1,000miles? - AuroraF10

Skoda Octavia 1.5 petrol is brand new, barely two weeks old and comes with the 2-year fixed price service offer. Is it worthwhile booking it in (and me paying for) at 1,000 mile point a simple engine oil and filter change by the Skoda dealer? As an engineer, I fully understand that machines do need to be run in and some early wear/oil contamination is likely. I want to keep the car for up to five years, so early care might be prudent?? What are your thoughts? Anyone else done a similar thing? TIA

Skoda Octavia Mk3 1.5 TSI DSG hatch - New Car Oil & Filter Change at 1,000miles? - elekie&a/c doctor
Probably not worth doing . Drive the car sympathetically and change the oil and filter at a local Indy garage , using genuine parts , at around 6-8 k miles . Can you still buy those “running in , please pass “ stickers for the rear window?
Skoda Octavia Mk3 1.5 TSI DSG hatch - New Car Oil & Filter Change at 1,000miles? - bathtub tom

I thought modern thinking was 'drive it like you stole it' within the first fifty miles to bed the rings in. Mimse along and it'll become an oil burner. It's under warranty and modern oils and filter should deal with any detritus.

Skoda Octavia Mk3 1.5 TSI DSG hatch - New Car Oil & Filter Change at 1,000miles? - gordonbennet

I did the first oil change at around 1000 miles on a Hilux, the only vehicle i've ever owned from new.

The lorry i currently drive had its first oil change at 100k kms, that wouldn't have been the case if i owned it but it only has to last the 5 year lease period (probably 900 to 1 million ks) after which it enters the used truck market.

Can't see how filthy the lorry oil is cos no dipstick without tilting the cab, the oil in the Diesel Hilux stayed clean for around 1000 miles following every oil change.

its a case of do what you feel is right for you, i would do it DIY using a genuine filter and the correct spec oil, modern thinking is all about the next replacement vehicle, not in the maker's interests that the vehicle lasts 20 trouble free years, i assume this is a turbocharged engine? if so mechanical sympathy as in warm up cool down routines are arguably as important, but as an engineer you would know this better than i.

Edited by gordonbennet on 03/07/2020 at 08:06

Skoda Octavia Mk3 1.5 TSI DSG hatch - New Car Oil & Filter Change at 1,000miles? - edlithgow

IIt's under warranty and modern oils and filter should deal with any detritus.

Dunno how oil (modern or ancient) could "deal with" detritus. Its scope would seem to be limited to reducing detritus formation (by reducing wear and being stable enough not to form sludge) and either keeping the detritus that forms, or is already present post-production, or gets through the air filter, in suspension or letting it settle out.

The latter is really only an option with static engines.

Filters vary a lot, but a lot of them let particles below 20 microns through, and these particles cause wear. Since they aren't being effectively removed by a typical filter or "dealt with" by the oil, they can only be removed by an oil change.

BUT the OP talks about keeping the car for only 5 years. It seems very unlikely that an early oil change is going to have a detectable effect on that timescale, and long-term, it is quite likely that something other than engine wear is going to kill the car.

So its only worth doing for any "feel good factor", and if that's the motivation, I'd think it'd make one feel better if one did it oneself.

I suppose I've done a "similar thing", since I dropped and cleaned out the sump (a hassle) on my current zero-value car because the oil had ferrous metal settling out of it.

That didn't make much sense either, but I was quite pleased I did it..

Edited by edlithgow on 03/07/2020 at 11:10

Skoda Octavia Mk3 1.5 TSI DSG hatch - New Car Oil & Filter Change at 1,000miles? - John F

Owing to modern metals and machining accuracy, engines are so well made that there is no need to change the 'running in oil' at 1000 miles or so. But I dispute the ' from new drive it like you stole it' advice. For the second time in my life I have had a new engine to carefully 'run-in' (Peugeot 1.2 puretech 130). This meant never foot to the floor or more than a brief 4000 revs for the first 500 miles, and then only an occasional flat out up to 6000 revs when the autobox changes up, when thoroughly warmed up. Now at 3,300 miles the oil remains a clear honey colour and there is no discernible departure from the max mark. After 1000 miles it was driven normally, plus regularly ensuring the engine developed its maximum power and revs occasionally, something that I guess most owners like MrsF, whose car it is, might never do. I am hoping it will last as long as our Focus 1.6 Zetec, which at nearly 150,000 miles performs as lustily as ever and has worn well, still doing over 3,000 miles per litre of always the cheapest oil I could find for it every ten to twelve thousand miles.

Skoda Octavia Mk3 1.5 TSI DSG hatch - New Car Oil & Filter Change at 1,000miles? - badbusdriver

Given this is (presumably) a dry clutch DSG, surely the last thing you'd want to do is 'drive it like you stole it'. If you want it to last 5 years then surely driving it as carefully as possible, plus diligent servicing and maintenence is the way to go.

Skoda Octavia Mk3 1.5 TSI DSG hatch - New Car Oil & Filter Change at 1,000miles? - thunderbird

I thought modern thinking was 'drive it like you stole it' within the first fifty miles to bed the rings in.

My dad always used to "baby" a new car for the first 1000 miles or so and had some real oil burners. I have always driven new cars as the salesman told me when I took delivery of an Escort in 1978, "drive it exactly as you normally would" were his words. Never had an oil burner in those 42 years.

there is no need to change the 'running in oil' at 1000 miles or so

As far as I am aware with modern oils and modern machining techniques/tolerances there is no such thing as running in oils these days. The factory fill is with normal oil.

But its always important to remember the oil change interval is simply not one based on mileage, it always has a time limit as well. Take our Fabia as an example, its on fixed servicing which means an oil change every year or 10,000 miles whichever comes first. Go onto variable and its a maximum of 2 years or 20,000 miles (the car tells you when its required) but there is no cost saving over the yearly fixed so unless you want to avoid a dealer visit its pointless.

Skoda Octavia Mk3 1.5 TSI DSG hatch - New Car Oil & Filter Change at 1,000miles? - John F

But its always important to remember the oil change interval is simply not one based on mileage, it always has a time limit as well. Take our Fabia as an example, its on fixed servicing which means an oil change every year or 10,000 miles whichever comes first.

Yet again I see this 'every year' dogma thoughtlessly trotted out. There is no scientific basis for it. It seems to have only appeared relatively recently, purely for the benefit of the garage trade, which probably explains the frequency of its appearance on motoring sites such as this. Oil does not 'go off' after 365 days. There is really no need for a poor pensioner (or even a comfortably orf one) doing fewer than 5000 miles a year to incur the unnecessary expense and hassle of changing the oil and filter annually.

Skoda Octavia Mk3 1.5 TSI DSG hatch - New Car Oil & Filter Change at 1,000miles? - Andrew-T

<< Yet again I see this 'every year' dogma thoughtlessly trotted out. There is no scientific basis for it. It seems to have only appeared relatively recently, >>

I don't know what you consider to be relatively recent, John, but the Haynes manual for my 306 says change oil after 12K or 12 months, whichever comes first, and I think the one for the 205 (which I no longer have) said something similar 25 years ago. I think the time limit has been there for quite a while for many cars. It's intended to prevent people going too far by either parameter - especially the ones who aren't very car-savvy.

Skoda Octavia Mk3 1.5 TSI DSG hatch - New Car Oil & Filter Change at 1,000miles? - John F

<< Yet again I see this 'every year' dogma thoughtlessly trotted out. There is no scientific basis for it. It seems to have only appeared relatively recently, >>

I don't know what you consider to be relatively recent, John, but the Haynes manual for my 306 says change oil after 12K or 12 months, whichever comes first, and I think the one for the 205 (which I no longer have) said something similar 25 years ago. I think the time limit has been there for quite a while for many cars.

My 1983 TR7 Haynes manual just advises the 6000 mile oil and filter change with no mention of time limit. BUT - you are right. Mr Haynes perhaps didn't read the TR7 handbook thoroughly (and neither did I till now!) because, on a different page, apart from the maintenance schedules, it reads......'the schedules are based on an annual mileage of 20000 km (12000 miles) if the vehicle is driven at substantially less than this rate then.....a 10000km (6000 mile) service should be carried out at 6 months intervals.....' Apparently this means I should have changed the oil and filter about eighty times - for a mere 71,000 miles!! As it has had only five changes since the one in 1989 I suppose the person who wrote that would be astonished to learn that the engine has neither seized up nor rattles loudly burning copious quantities of oil.

Skoda Octavia Mk3 1.5 TSI DSG hatch - New Car Oil & Filter Change at 1,000miles? - brum

You may very well cause some damage by changing the oil so early.

Why?

Your 1.5tsi EA211 engine is still very tight at 1000 miles, it is specifically designed to use low viscosity oil and is factory filled with Fuchs 0w20 oil to Vw508/509. In the first 1000 miles (or may be km) the ECU is programmed to run the electronically variable pressure oil pump at maximum system pressure to aid running in. This is to maintain a high flow rate through bearings, assist cooling and flush any debris. After 1000 miles a normal variable pressure profile versus engine load/speed is then used.

Flow is a function of pressure and viscosity. Oil flow is critical to maintain cooling of turbo bearings etc.

When my dealer carried out the first service on my Skoda they filled it with cheaper VW502 oil which is 5w40 grade, ignoring the factory recommendation. Now my car has worse fuel consumption (by at least 5%). Of more corncern as oil flow is worse than it should be, (ECU controls oil pressure) I have noticed it now runs at a higher oil temperature than it did before.

blog.amsoil.com/what-happens-if-i-use-the-wrong-we.../

Other points

Every time you change oil and filter, draining the engine, there is some extra wear and damage incurred during the seconds taken to fill the filter/engine galleries and restore full and correct oil flow throughout the engine.

Last but not least, but dependent on the attitude of your dealer and the wording of your service agreement, which will be with Skoda financial services, you may find that you inadvertently forfeit the "first" service as Skoda's electronic service recording system may not allow it to be carried out under the terms of your agreement insisting it had to be the "first" oil change.

Edited by brum on 04/07/2020 at 00:13

Skoda Octavia Mk3 1.5 TSI DSG hatch - New Car Oil & Filter Change at 1,000miles? - Andrew-T

<< Every time you change oil and filter, draining the engine, there is some extra wear and damage incurred during the seconds taken to fill the filter/engine galleries and restore full and correct oil flow throughout the engine. >>

I accept that the running of modern engines is much more tightly controlled than it used to be, but are you really suggesting that after 15-20 minutes draining, so little oil is left in a warm engine that significant damage is done in the few seconds before the fresh oil gets round ? That sounds like nanotech to me.

Skoda Octavia Mk3 1.5 TSI DSG hatch - New Car Oil & Filter Change at 1,000miles? - bathtub tom

I started my car for the first time in weeks during this lockdown and was surprised at the rattling until the oil light went out. I've since wound it on the starter with a fuel fuse removed until the oil light goes out every couple of weeks. I do the same when I change the oil and filter.

Skoda Octavia Mk3 1.5 TSI DSG hatch - New Car Oil & Filter Change at 1,000miles? - Andrew-T

I started my car for the first time in weeks during this lockdown and was surprised at the rattling until the oil light went out. I've since wound it on the starter with a fuel fuse removed until the oil light goes out every couple of weeks. I do the same when I change the oil and filter.

I suppose that is a gratifying precaution to take, but I wonder how much difference it makes. I would guess that oil reaches the important parts some time before it gets to the pressure sensor ?

Of course waiting several weeks is rather different from just 15-20 minutes to drain.

Skoda Octavia Mk3 1.5 TSI DSG hatch - New Car Oil & Filter Change at 1,000miles? - thunderbird

<< Yet again I see this 'every year' dogma thoughtlessly trotted out. There is no scientific basis for it. It seems to have only appeared relatively recently, >>

I don't know what you consider to be relatively recent, John, but the Haynes manual for my 306 says change oil after 12K or 12 months, whichever comes first, and I think the one for the 205 (which I no longer have) said something similar 25 years ago. I think the time limit has been there for quite a while for many cars. It's intended to prevent people going too far by either parameter - especially the ones who aren't very car-savvy.

As far as I am aware the mileage and time limits have been there since the 60's probably longer. My first car, a 1964 Anglia had services specified at 3000/3 months (chassis lube), 6000/6 months (minor which included oil and filter) and at 12,000/12 months a major which included pretty much everything. The handbook even gave detailed instruction on how to carry out a decoke every 30,000 miles.

The 6,000mile/6 month interval continued until I bought a Golf in 1986 when it changed to 10,000 miles/12 months and that saved me a fortune. The only car I remember looking at with a 6000 mile/6 month interval since was a Subaru back in the 90's and those intervals made running costs eye opening, no wonder they have all but disappeared.

Your 1.5tsi EA211 engine is still very tight at 1000 miles, it is specifically designed to use low viscosity oil and is factory filled with Fuchs 0w20 oil to Vw508/509. In the first 1000 miles (or may be km) the ECU is programmed to run the electronically variable pressure oil pump at maximum system pressure to aid running in. This is to maintain a high flow rate through bearings, assist cooling and flush any debris. After 1000 miles a normal variable pressure profile versus engine load/speed is then used.

When my dealer carried out the first service on my Skoda they filled it with cheaper VW502 oil which is 5w40 grade, ignoring the factory recommendation. Now my car has worse fuel consumption (by at least 5%). Of more corncern as oil flow is worse than it should be, (ECU controls oil pressure) I have noticed it now runs at a higher oil temperature than it did before.

Your Skoda dealer must be pretty rubbish. 5w40 502 spec oil is as far as I am aware an obsolete grade originally specifed for non turbo petrols. Take the car back and get them to use the correct oil. If the car has an issue Skoda may well refuse to honour the warranty which may lead to legal actions against the dealer. Shame you cannot name them on her, their customers (and potential customers) need to be made aware of their shocking act of ignoring factory recommendations.

When our Fabia went in back in May for its 2nd service I asked about changing to the variable instead of the fixed and asked about the difference in the oils used. He told me that VAG now specify 508/509 for all petrols regardless of fixed or variable and he told me it was the only oil they used. Not 100% sure but I seem to remember he said it was the same oil for diesels as well.

Skoda Octavia Mk3 1.5 TSI DSG hatch - New Car Oil & Filter Change at 1,000miles? - edlithgow

I started my car for the first time in weeks during this lockdown and was surprised at the rattling until the oil light went out. I've since wound it on the starter with a fuel fuse removed until the oil light goes out every couple of weeks. I do the same when I change the oil and filter.

I used to do this after a long stand, with the added refinement (?) of removing the plugs. Lately I don't bother so much, though if say, I was away in the UK over the summer I might still do it on my return.

Last oil ichange interval was about 6 years. Taking the plugs out for restarting after every oil change is not therefore very onerous.

I do drain it overnight though rather than the 20 minutes mentioned above. Maybe I should stop doing that, but OTOH I don't use skinny oil so maybe the residue is a bit more protective. Dunno.

For routine starts, it won't unless I blip the accelerator a bit, so its easy to turn it over a little without firing the engine.

Skoda Octavia Mk3 1.5 TSI DSG hatch - New Car Oil & Filter Change at 1,000miles? - sammy1

Cannot see why starting a car after say 2days 2weeks or 2 months makes any difference in the overall wear on an engine. Reading the above posts it is amazing how enthusiastic some owners are with their cars how do some sleep at night worrying about their next start up or should I maybe drive it 1mile to the shop or would that be wasting a start up!

Skoda Octavia Mk3 1.5 TSI DSG hatch - New Car Oil & Filter Change at 1,000miles? - edlithgow

Cannot see why starting a car after say 2days 2weeks or 2 months makes any difference in the overall wear on an engine. Reading the above posts it is amazing how enthusiastic some owners are with their cars how do some sleep at night worrying about their next start up or should I maybe drive it 1mile to the shop or would that be wasting a start up!

I think the mild concern is oil drain down. This might be expected to be greater over 2 months than 2 days, though engines never seem to get really dry even after standing for years.

I can't say I've noticed much extra valve noise etc, on a long stand but then I don't use skinny oil (its about a 25W40 blend IIRC)

Skoda Octavia Mk3 1.5 TSI DSG hatch - New Car Oil & Filter Change at 1,000miles? - edlithgow

You may very well cause some damage by changing the oil so early.

When my dealer carried out the first service on my Skoda they filled it with cheaper VW502 oil which is 5w40 grade, ignoring the factory recommendation. Now my car has worse fuel consumption (by at least 5%). Of more corncern as oil flow is worse than it should be, (ECU controls oil pressure) I have noticed it now runs at a higher oil temperature than it did before.

Your assertion above refers to an "early" oil change being damaging, but in fact assumes (a) that the wrong oil will be used, and (b) that this will be damaging.

The first assumption seems unjustified, and the second is doubtful.

Lower viscosity oil gives lower fuel consumption. That's why they use it.

OTOH it gives worse wear protection, but this probably won't matter over the likely lifespan of a car.

www.substech.com/dokuwiki/lib/exe/fetch.php?cache=...g

Higher oil temperature will be due to lower flow rates (at constant pressure) and internal shear heating of the oil. To be damaging it would have to cause greatly accelerated thermal breakdown of the oil within the oil change interval, and coking up of oil passages.

Do you have any reason to believe this is happening?

Skoda Octavia Mk3 1.5 TSI DSG hatch - New Car Oil & Filter Change at 1,000miles? - thunderbird

You may very well cause some damage by changing the oil so early.

When my dealer carried out the first service on my Skoda they filled it with cheaper VW502 oil which is 5w40 grade, ignoring the factory recommendation. Now my car has worse fuel consumption (by at least 5%). Of more corncern as oil flow is worse than it should be, (ECU controls oil pressure) I have noticed it now runs at a higher oil temperature than it did before.

Your assertion above refers to an "early" oil change being damaging, but in fact assumes (a) that the wrong oil will be used, and (b) that this will be damaging.

The first assumption seems unjustified, and the second is doubtful.

Lower viscosity oil gives lower fuel consumption. That's why they use it.

OTOH it gives worse wear protection, but this probably won't matter over the likely lifespan of a car.

www.substech.com/dokuwiki/lib/exe/fetch.php?cache=...g

Higher oil temperature will be due to lower flow rates (at constant pressure) and internal shear heating of the oil. To be damaging it would have to cause greatly accelerated thermal breakdown of the oil within the oil change interval, and coking up of oil passages.

Do you have any reason to believe this is happening?

VAG have their own oil specs for their cars and they have changed over the years. As a new spec becomes available its always suitable to use in older cars but the older spec is not normally suitable for use in newer and current cars.

The 502 spec used is not listed for use in the newer turbo cars and is certainly not suitable for modern diesels with DPF's. The price difference between the correct and incorrect oil is small, probably £10 extra for a 5 litre container so why use the wrong stuff, its barmy.

Its all in the manual but since you don't own a VAG car you do not have access to this info without searching on line.

Its not just the ability of the oil to lubricate which is of course critical but its also the oils compatibility with the cars emissions systems. Damage to either will be costly.

So as I say, a tenner every year extra for the right stuff is a no brainer.

Skoda Octavia Mk3 1.5 TSI DSG hatch - New Car Oil & Filter Change at 1,000miles? - edlithgow

You may very well cause some damage by changing the oil so early.

When my dealer carried out the first service on my Skoda they filled it with cheaper VW502 oil which is 5w40 grade, ignoring the factory recommendation. Now my car has worse fuel consumption (by at least 5%). Of more corncern as oil flow is worse than it should be, (ECU controls oil pressure) I have noticed it now runs at a higher oil temperature than it did before.

Your assertion above refers to an "early" oil change being damaging, but in fact assumes (a) that the wrong oil will be used, and (b) that this will be damaging.

The first assumption seems unjustified, and the second is doubtful.

Lower viscosity oil gives lower fuel consumption. That's why they use it.

OTOH it gives worse wear protection, but this probably won't matter over the likely lifespan of a car.

www.substech.com/dokuwiki/lib/exe/fetch.php?cache=...g

Higher oil temperature will be due to lower flow rates (at constant pressure) and internal shear heating of the oil. To be damaging it would have to cause greatly accelerated thermal breakdown of the oil within the oil change interval, and coking up of oil passages.

Do you have any reason to believe this is happening?

VAG have their own oil specs for their cars and they have changed over the years. As a new spec becomes available its always suitable to use in older cars but the older spec is not normally suitable for use in newer and current cars.

The 502 spec used is not listed for use in the newer turbo cars and is certainly not suitable for modern diesels with DPF's. The price difference between the correct and incorrect oil is small, probably £10 extra for a 5 litre container so why use the wrong stuff, its barmy.

Its all in the manual but since you don't own a VAG car you do not have access to this info without searching on line.

Its not just the ability of the oil to lubricate which is of course critical but its also the oils compatibility with the cars emissions systems. Damage to either will be costly.

So as I say, a tenner every year extra for the right stuff is a no brainer.

I was responding to the issues mentioned, which were (a) that the wrong oil would be used by the OP (which seems an unjustified assumption) and (b) that the wrong oil used by the posters dealer was too high a viscosity and ran too hot.

If it is also incompatible with the DPF that, unlike the viscosity, is a real issue and a real concern which I'd have expected them to mention.

If they are unaware of it, its to be hoped they read this post, since its of more vital interest to them than it is to me.

As you say, I don't have a VAG vehicle with a DPF, and hope I never will..

Skoda Octavia Mk3 1.5 TSI DSG hatch - New Car Oil & Filter Change at 1,000miles? - Engineer Andy

Skoda Octavia 1.5 petrol is brand new, barely two weeks old and comes with the 2-year fixed price service offer. Is it worthwhile booking it in (and me paying for) at 1,000 mile point a simple engine oil and filter change by the Skoda dealer? As an engineer, I fully understand that machines do need to be run in and some early wear/oil contamination is likely. I want to keep the car for up to five years, so early care might be prudent?? What are your thoughts? Anyone else done a similar thing? TIA

Follow the instructions in the handbook (or electronic version) - if it says you don't need one, it's not worth it as the service plan likely won't include for it, just two services over the 2 year period. It may Not necessarily) have some instructions on running in, probably limited to not either labouring or thrashing the engine and using all the gears and normal rev range for the first ?? hundred miles.

Things may be different abroad, say in hot dusty countries, but I suspect unless the car's a high performance car (obviously this isn't), then it will likely not need one. My Mazda 3 didn't, and the engine is still going strong 14.5 years later after buying it brand new.

Skoda Octavia Mk3 1.5 TSI DSG hatch - New Car Oil & Filter Change at 1,000miles? - Avant

I agree Andy. We read so much about manufacturers quibbling about warranty claims, even when the dealer supports the customer, that the only sensible thing to do is (a) follow the manufacturer's service schedule, and (b) use a main dealer, unless you really are certain that an independent is using nothing but authorised oils, fluids and parts.

SWMBO's A3 convertible is now a year old, and has done just 6,000 miles. The oil is still clean. The car's computer says an oil change is due in 7 days (or something like another 6,000 miles, but it's whichever is the sooner). We'll go with that.

I remember the 1,000-mile service from my first few cars, but I think that went out in the 1980s. They called it free, which being translated meant 'included in the price of the car'.

Skoda Octavia Mk3 1.5 TSI DSG hatch - New Car Oil & Filter Change at 1,000miles? - Lrac

One justification that I can think of is that a new car will have been subjected to quite a few cold starts without warming up the engine so the oil could have been degraded by this.

Skoda Octavia Mk3 1.5 TSI DSG hatch - New Car Oil & Filter Change at 1,000miles? - dan86

When i brought my first brand new car in 2006 it was a Suzuki swift with the 1.5 VVT engine. When I asked the salesman about running in he said its already been done on a bench before going in to the car and I also asked about the 1000 mile oil change he said its all done for the customer befor they take delivery of the car, he also said the engine is designed to be revved,

So revved it was I was 19 and I drove that car for 4 years like I stole it. Never once did it use a drop of oil or did anything break. With the current SX4 we were expecting our first child so wasn't driven as enthusiastically but still never uses a drop of oil 10 years later and always stay a clean honey colour.

Skoda Octavia Mk3 1.5 TSI DSG hatch - New Car Oil & Filter Change at 1,000miles? - John F

Never once did it use a drop of oil ......... With the current SX4 we were expecting our first child so wasn't driven as enthusiastically but still never uses a drop of oil 10 years later ....

Don't believe it. I just don't believe it.

I have lost count of the times I have seen this assertion of wishful thinking, presumably from those who have never done physics experiments to pass with a decent grade, or have long forgotten what they learnt, or who never keep cars beyond around 40,000 miles, or who have diesel engines which add fuel to the oil at a rate roughly matching what is burnt.

All engines use oil. These days not much to begin with, unless they are badly made; more so as they get older and inevitably wear. As someone who has always kept careful records of the amount of oil put into engines, I have noticed it is not unusual to go well beyond 50,000 miles before requiring a top up between changes. My 40yr old TR7 has only just required 500mls between its fewer than 6000 mile oil changes at 70,000 miles. Our Focus first required 500mls between changes at 40,400 and 54,550, but then it only gets exactly 4 litres at oil change time which brings the level to half way between min and max mark. Between 92000 and 102800 it required 1 litre. At nearly 150,000 it now requires a litre every 3,500 miles, give or take 250 miles.

And AFAIK no car these days needs 'running in oil', which is why I put it in quotes in an earlier post. As per a story above, a good reason to avoid a too early oil change is to prevent a careless or dishonest garage substituting an inferior product for the (presumably) correct top quality oil initially supplied. Warranty or no warranty, I shall not be changing the honey coloured oil in our new 2008 until it has done 10,000 miles. It'll be interesting to see what the dealer recommends.

Skoda Octavia Mk3 1.5 TSI DSG hatch - New Car Oil & Filter Change at 1,000miles? - dan86

Never once did it use a drop of oil ......... With the current SX4 we were expecting our first child so wasn't driven as enthusiastically but still never uses a drop of oil 10 years later ....

Don't believe it. I just don't believe it.

I have lost count of the times I have seen this assertion of wishful thinking, presumably from those who have never done physics experiments to pass with a decent grade, or have long forgotten what they learnt, or who never keep cars beyond around 40,000 miles, or who have diesel engines which add fuel to the oil at a rate roughly matching what is burnt.

All engines use oil. These days not much to begin with, unless they are badly made; more so as they get older and inevitably wear. As someone who has always kept careful records of the amount of oil put into engines, I have noticed it is not unusual to go well beyond 50,000 miles before requiring a top up between changes. My 40yr old TR7 has only just required 500mls between its fewer than 6000 mile oil changes at 70,000 miles. Our Focus first required 500mls between changes at 40,400 and 54,550, but then it only gets exactly 4 litres at oil change time which brings the level to half way between min and max mark. Between 92000 and 102800 it required 1 litre. At nearly 150,000 it now requires a litre every 3,500 miles, give or take 250 miles.

And AFAIK no car these days needs 'running in oil', which is why I put it in quotes in an earlier post. As per a story above, a good reason to avoid a too early oil change is to prevent a careless or dishonest garage substituting an inferior product for the (presumably) correct top quality oil initially supplied. Warranty or no warranty, I shall not be changing the honey coloured oil in our new 2008 until it has done 10,000 miles. It'll be interesting to see what the dealer recommends.

The car is used daily and has never required a drop of oil between services, I'm far to busy to obsess over measuring how many millilitres of oil came out when emptied or loging every liter of fuel I've purchased. Its done 70000 miles and when I lift the bonnet the oil is always on max on the dipstick, the coolant level is right where it needs to be only fluids it ever requires is petrol and screanwash.

The engine in my sx4 is also a far more modern and probably better built unit than the crap British Leyland were producing 40 years ago.

Infact the 1970s Mercedes 300sl roadster i look after has a better built engine than the old British Leyland engine in the Triumph.

Edited by dan86 on 05/07/2020 at 12:03

Skoda Octavia Mk3 1.5 TSI DSG hatch - New Car Oil & Filter Change at 1,000miles? - John F

The engine in my sx4 is also a far more modern and probably better built unit than the crap British Leyland were producing 40 years ago.

Infact the 1970s Mercedes 300sl roadster i look after has a better built engine than the old British Leyland engine in the Triumph.

Hardly a fair comparison. In my Oct 1980 Motor Buyers Guide the TR7 is listed at £6176, and the MB 280SL is £16,600. I trust you are managing to keep the tin worm at bay.

Many of those Merc engines (the 3.8) had problems with cam chain failure. The early sports racers had far too much oil and so never warmed up properly in normal use. The later ones with fuel injection continued to inject fuel on switch off, thus washing the oil off the piston rings and cylinders resulting in premature wear and necessitating the advice for an oil change every 1000 miles!

Skoda Octavia Mk3 1.5 TSI DSG hatch - New Car Oil & Filter Change at 1,000miles? - Andrew-T

One justification that I can think of is that a new car will have been subjected to quite a few cold starts without warming up the engine so the oil could have been degraded by this.

I'm trying to get my head round this - why would a 'new car' suffer more cold starts than any other car ? ?

Skoda Octavia Mk3 1.5 TSI DSG hatch - New Car Oil & Filter Change at 1,000miles? - Lrac

Production line to car park, car park to trailer, trailer to car park, car park to ship, ship to car park, car park to trailer, trailer to initial parking then to another car park., car park to wash bay, wash bay to car park, car park to workshop for pdi, workshop to car park, car park to test drive / show room etc etc years ago when cars had carbs we would have fires in exhaust systems from this treatment

Skoda Octavia Mk3 1.5 TSI DSG hatch - New Car Oil & Filter Change at 1,000miles? - Lrac

I often had to work on board ships delivering new cars, some would not start. All that was ever required was a clean of the plugs due to this constantly fuel rich cold start mixture.

If there is fuel in the oil the egr system will recirculate these fumes so the mixture will be affected and the oxygen sensors will then attempt to correct this. Obviously this will cause running problems.

Probably should mention a rich mixture can cause bore wash which is the reason for the oil degradation. This condition can also be exacerbated by the "dirty" plugs. Its simple enough to smell the dip stick if the car has one.

Edited by Lrac on 05/07/2020 at 20:07

Skoda Octavia Mk3 1.5 TSI DSG hatch - New Car Oil & Filter Change at 1,000miles? - Andrew-T

Production line to car park, car park to trailer, .... workshop to car park, car park to test drive / show room etc etc. Years ago when cars had carbs we would have fires in exhaust systems from this treatment.

OK, so that's just normal for any car between factory and customer, perhaps with slight variation for rentals etc. Probably most of it unavoidable.

Skoda Octavia Mk3 1.5 TSI DSG hatch - New Car Oil & Filter Change at 1,000miles? - Lrac

Oh yes definitely and the only reason that I could think of for changing the oil. I remember a thread a few years ago where someone was complaining that their quite new car was telling them that the oil needed changing due to degradation (possibly a Suzuki).

Quite by coincidence my wife purchased a car from a main dealer with less than a thousand miles on the clock. Whilst on their forecourt it missed a service. I kicked off that the warranty would now be invalid so they serviced the car for free and were adamant that they changed the oil although I have my doubts.

Importer agreed in writing that warranty would be honoured

Skoda Octavia Mk3 1.5 TSI DSG hatch - New Car Oil & Filter Change at 1,000miles? - edlithgow

One justification that I can think of is that a new car will have been subjected to quite a few cold starts without warming up the engine so the oil could have been degraded by this.

I think you mean probably mean short - tripping.

Any moisture accumulated by this is likely to be driven off by normal use, unless the normal use also includes a lot of winter short tripping, which would be a separate justification for more frequent oil changes..

Skoda Octavia Mk3 1.5 TSI DSG hatch - New Car Oil & Filter Change at 1,000miles? - Lrac

One justification that I can think of is that a new car will have been subjected to quite a few cold starts without warming up the engine so the oil could have been degraded by this.

I think you mean probably mean short - tripping.

Any moisture accumulated by this is likely to be driven off by normal use, unless the normal use also includes a lot of winter short tripping, which would be a separate justification for more frequent oil changes..

I was referring to bore wash from running the engine cold and not giving it time to warm up before turning it off. On the boats I witnessed these cars with cold engines screaming whilst everyone worked as fast as they possibly could to get the boat unloaded. The cars were turned off at the quayside then thrashed to a nearby compound. I used to think I am glad I wont be buying any of them.

Skoda Octavia Mk3 1.5 TSI DSG hatch - New Car Oil & Filter Change at 1,000miles? - edlithgow

One justification that I can think of is that a new car will have been subjected to quite a few cold starts without warming up the engine so the oil could have been degraded by this.

I think you mean probably mean short - tripping.

Any moisture accumulated by this is likely to be driven off by normal use, unless the normal use also includes a lot of winter short tripping, which would be a separate justification for more frequent oil changes..

I was referring to bore wash from running the engine cold and not giving it time to warm up before turning it off. On the boats I witnessed these cars with cold engines screaming whilst everyone worked as fast as they possibly could to get the boat unloaded. The cars were turned off at the quayside then thrashed to a nearby compound. I used to think I am glad I wont be buying any of them.

Well, we are getting into some fine (or just picky) technical distinctions, but bore wash isn''t oil degradation, though I suppose it'll likely put metal in the oil.

Running-in and manufacturing debris will too, unless you beleve all that "modern engines" jstuff has eliminated (as opposed to reduced) this.

I'd need to see some evidence before I believed that.

Skoda Octavia Mk3 1.5 TSI DSG hatch - New Car Oil & Filter Change at 1,000miles? - Lrac

I know bore wash is not oil degradation I am not aware that I said it was did I?

Where do you think the fuel that washes the oil from the bores ends up? I mentioned previously the consequences of the crankcase ventilation system recirculating fumes back into the engine. I personally would prefer my engine oil not to contain petrol/ solvent.

I regard changing oil as a simple job taking a few minutes for minimal costs not worth stressing about. Stick a vacuum pipe in go and have a cup of tea then remove. Don't worry about the filter at this mileage. Correct oil and vacuum pump price probably cheaper than main dealer oil change and you have the pump for life. This way nobody will notice the filter has been touched

I am sure someone on here will know the details of which I am not that familiar but wasn't there a problem with a particular Honda engine in the States that suffered from bore wash?

Skoda Octavia Mk3 1.5 TSI DSG hatch - New Car Oil & Filter Change at 1,000miles? - Engineer Andy

One justification that I can think of is that a new car will have been subjected to quite a few cold starts without warming up the engine so the oil could have been degraded by this.

If the car was either a modern diesel and/or an ex-demo/showroom car that could very likely have done lots of short journeys from cold.

Even if the actual overall mileage was low, then I certainly would consider it, although I'd probably insist that the dealer change the oil (and check the battery condition) as part of me accepting the deal.

Skoda Octavia Mk3 1.5 TSI DSG hatch - New Car Oil & Filter Change at 1,000miles? - I'm a Pane

Is it worthwhile booking it in (and me paying for) at 1,000 mile point a simple engine oil and filter change by the Skoda dealer?

Only if that is Skoda's recommendation. Most cars do not have 'running in' oil from new and do not need a 1000 inspection/oil change.

If Skoda is an exception then this should be done free of charge. Your comment about paying for it suggests this is what you feel is needed rather than the manufacturer. If so, save your money - or spend it down the pub now we can go to one!!!

Skoda Octavia Mk3 1.5 TSI DSG hatch - New Car Oil & Filter Change at 1,000miles? - dan86

Do any modern cars come with running in oil any more. I thought with modern machening processes and tighter tolerances it hasn't been needed this century?

Skoda Octavia Mk3 1.5 TSI DSG hatch - New Car Oil & Filter Change at 1,000miles? - thunderbird

Do any modern cars come with running in oil any more. I thought with modern machening processes and tighter tolerances it hasn't been needed this century?

Here is a warning.

Acquaintance of mine (he lived up the street so was probably actually a neighbour) built himself a Locost sports car a few years ago, probably talking about 2008. He spent an absolute fortune, about £20000 (so much for Locost), for that he could have got a much better Westfield.

For the engine he bought a brand new Ford 2 litre which I saw after it was delivered, shrink wrapped in a yellow plastic crate, very nice.

The following is roughly what he posted on his build blog and not what he told me. When the engine was delivered he was told it was filled with special storage oil that is circulated around the engine by compressed air during the engine build check. The instructions were to drain this oil and dispose of it (together with the filter) filling with a cheap Ford spec oil to flush the engine for a 100 miles or so before filling with the owners choice of oil to Fords spec.

This was not an issue since the sump and pickup needed modifying to suit the Locost, instructions were included and taken to a local Engineering company thus whilst they were off there was zero chance of any of the factory oil being left.

Wrong.

He decided against the instruction to save money and reuse the oil which is described as a "thick green gunge". No oil pressure at start up but he still drove the car on the street until it started to knock, crank wrecked.

Out of money he bought an engine from a breakers and fitted the sump and pickup that had been modified. Problem with this was Mr Ford had changed things a bit during production and the pickup was too long when mounted on the earlier engine and instead of being clear of the sump bottom by whatever distance is required it was actually touching it. Again no oil pressure and after driving it up and down the street like the previous time another wrecked engine.

At this point his wife (now ex wife) put her foot down and declared the car or her had to go. So the car was sold for virtually the cost of a basic kit and he took a huge loss. The buyer must have got a real bargain, no idea if it was ever completed.

Skoda Octavia Mk3 1.5 TSI DSG hatch - New Car Oil & Filter Change at 1,000miles? - gordonbennet

Interesting about a different oil being pressurised around the engine during build and initial checks.

That might go some way to explaining the odd phenomenon of Ford's 3.2 Diesel 5 pot engine as fitted to Ranger pick up, requiring, according to John Cadogon on youtube, that an engine oil change should be completed within 15 mins of the old oil being drained out because the oil pump can't otherwise prime the system.

Skoda Octavia Mk3 1.5 TSI DSG hatch - New Car Oil & Filter Change at 1,000miles? - mcb100
Chain driven (which has been known to fail) variable flow oil pump that can’t self prime once it’s empty.
There is a priming process, but you’d obviously have to know the need to follow it....
Skoda Octavia Mk3 1.5 TSI DSG hatch - New Car Oil & Filter Change at 1,000miles? - gordonbennet
Chain driven (which has been known to fail) variable flow oil pump that can’t self prime once it’s empty. There is a priming process, but you’d obviously have to know the need to follow it....

Many thanks, seems a lot of faff for no good reason, another case of fixing something unbroken?

Skoda Octavia Mk3 1.5 TSI DSG hatch - New Car Oil & Filter Change at 1,000miles? - edlithgow

Do any modern cars come with running in oil any more. I thought with modern machening processes and tighter tolerances it hasn't been needed this century?

I THINK I vaguely remember that Honda's fairly recently were supplied with a high-molybdenum oil which wasn't specced for later oil changes, so IF this is/was true I suppose that'd constitute a special "running in" oil, though you could argue (and I would) thjat whatever oil it comes with is the running in oil

https://www.civicx.com/forum/threads/first-oil-from-factory-and-oil-change-discussion.682/

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4415235/2

Skoda Octavia Mk3 1.5 TSI DSG hatch - New Car Oil & Filter Change at 1,000miles? - Mike H

We bought a new diesel Honda CR-V in 2015, and replaced it with a petrol hybrid from the same dealer in 2019. In both cases they requested that we bring the car in for an oil change after 1000-1500km (we live in Austria). The diesel had done around 83,000km when we traded it in last year, and burnt no oil between services. The petrol hybrid has covered around 16,500km since July last year and has burnt no oil either. If the early oil change is good enough for Honda, it's good enough for me :-)

Skoda Octavia Mk3 1.5 TSI DSG hatch - New Car Oil & Filter Change at 1,000miles? - John F

We bought a new diesel Honda CR-V in 2015, and replaced it with a petrol hybrid from the same dealer in 2019. In both cases they requested that we bring the car in for an oil change after 1000-1500km .......... If the early oil change is good enough for Honda, it's good enough for me :-)

That is ridiculously early. Was that recommendation from the Honda manufacturing engineers or your local Honda car seller?

Skoda Octavia Mk3 1.5 TSI DSG hatch - New Car Oil & Filter Change at 1,000miles? - madf

Modern tolerances and oils mean 1.000 mile intervals for oil changes are a complete waste of money and only make profits for a dealer...

Skoda Octavia Mk3 1.5 TSI DSG hatch - New Car Oil & Filter Change at 1,000miles? - edlithgow

Modern tolerances and oils mean 1.000 mile intervals for oil changes are a complete waste of money and only make profits for a dealer...

Ses you.

I keep seeing this "modern tolerances" jive as an assertion. I don't recall ever seeing any evidence for it, and it seems inherently unlikely,

On the face of it, it seems reasonable that manufacturing tolerances would have narrowed in mass production due to the use of more accurately calibrated CNC machinery, though from a quick look I only found one example.

Its a comparison of a 1984 and 2012 Honda Accord, from here

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3946054/re-have-engine-tolerances-really-changed#Post3946054

(I stuck the numbers (in inches. Americans, yknow?) in a spreadsheet to allow easier comparison. Unfortunately that wont paste in.here without falling apart (see below). I could save it as an image somewhere and then link to it, but I doubt its worthwhile. Go to the source if interested).

Min Max Range Range as % of min Range Comparison 1985 Camshaft oil clearance Journal 1 0.002 0.004 0.00200 100 2012 Camshaft oil clearance Journal 1 0.00118 0.00272 0.00154 131 less 1985 All other camshaft journal clearances 0.005 0.007 0.00200 40 2012 All other camshaft journal clearances 0.00236 0.0039 0.00154 65 less 1985 Con rod oil clearance 0.0008 0.0015 0.00070 88 2012 Con rod oil clearance 0.00126 0.0026 0.00134 106 more 1985 crank bearing journal 0.001 0.0022 0.00120 120 2012 crank bearing journal 2012: .00067-.00161 0.00067 0.00161 0.00094 140 less (just) 1985 piston-to-bore clearance 0.0008 0.0016 0.00080 100 same 2012 piston-to-bore clearance 0.00079 0.00157 0.00078 99

The tolerances (acceptable range of bearing clearance) are generally around 100% of minimum. Two of them are narrower, in 2012 one is wider, and two are about the same, so if there is a shift, it isn't very dramatic. based on this example.

I cant in any case think of any reason why a narrower range of bearing clearances would reduce wear. The tolerance is the range of variation acceptable. If a bearing was much wider than tolerance it might loose oil pressure. If it was much narrower it might bind, but within tolerance it should be ok, pretty much by definition.

Re "modern oils", you can get a quick visual comparison of the change in performance specifications (not quite the same as actual performance) on the Lubrizol site, here.

https://online.lubrizol.com/relperftool/pc.html#

Comparing the API SJ that I choose to use, with the more recent SN Plus, there have been some improvements in wear, but the big gains are in Aftertreatment Compatability (of no use to me) oxidative thickening and piston deposit control. The last two allow longer OCI's before oil failure, They do not proove that a short OCI has no benefit,

Edited by edlithgow on 08/07/2020 at 02:03

Skoda Octavia Mk3 1.5 TSI DSG hatch - New Car Oil & Filter Change at 1,000miles? - Mike H

AFAIK just a dealer thing. They reckon that their experience has shown that it's of long term benefit. Whether it's true or not I can't say, but it seems reasonable to follow their advice.

Skoda Octavia Mk3 1.5 TSI DSG hatch - New Car Oil & Filter Change at 1,000miles? - thunderbird

AFAIK just a dealer thing. They reckon that their experience has shown that it's of long term benefit. Whether it's true or not I can't say, but it seems reasonable to follow their advice.

It seems the dealer is just ripping customers off. They may have experience but I feel 100% certain that Honda themselves have far more of this matter and considering their excellent mechanical reliability record they would not have achieved it if the lack of a 1000 miles oil change was causing issues.

I suggest you go to a more honest garage in future.

Skoda Octavia Mk3 1.5 TSI DSG hatch - New Car Oil & Filter Change at 1,000miles? - Mike H

I suggest you go to a more honest garage in future.

I have no issues with their integrity personally, and they are well thought of locally. You might disagree on this one point, but overall we've had good experiences with them and know that we'll be treated fairly.

Skoda Octavia Mk3 1.5 TSI DSG hatch - New Car Oil & Filter Change at 1,000miles? - John F

I suggest you go to a more honest garage in future.

I have no issues with their integrity personally, and they are well thought of locally. You might disagree on this one point, but overall we've had good experiences with them and know that we'll be treated fairly.

This post reminds me of what the locals said about the popular avuncular Dr Shipman with his huge list of devoted patients........

Skoda Octavia Mk3 1.5 TSI DSG hatch - New Car Oil & Filter Change at 1,000miles? - Mike H

This post reminds me of what the locals said about the popular avuncular Dr Shipman with his huge list of devoted patients........

I think I'm experienced enough to take a sensible view on this subject John, after 50 years of car ownership and maintaining cars myself. We'll have to agree to differ I think.

Skoda Octavia Mk3 1.5 TSI DSG hatch - New Car Oil & Filter Change at 1,000miles? - Engineer Andy

We bought a new diesel Honda CR-V in 2015, and replaced it with a petrol hybrid from the same dealer in 2019. In both cases they requested that we bring the car in for an oil change after 1000-1500km .......... If the early oil change is good enough for Honda, it's good enough for me :-)

That is ridiculously early. Was that recommendation from the Honda manufacturing engineers or your local Honda car seller?

I wonder whether the dealer misread an early (oil and filter change) service from a service schedule for the car if used in areas of the world with more harsh (hot and dusty) conditions?

The service interval of mine says that when used Down Under, the service interval is half (every 6 months / 10,000 km [6,250 miles]) what it is for Europe. Admitedly it did not have a requirement for a 1,000 mile or km oil/filter change only service.

That first service for your Honda does seem rather sort a period for use in the UK - especially for a modern car.

Well, if the handbook says so, then I'd follow it.

Skoda Octavia Mk3 1.5 TSI DSG hatch - New Car Oil & Filter Change at 1,000miles? - edlithgow

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53IYXsxZDfo

I wouldn;t worry too much about the stuff in the filter, because its, like, in the filter.

I'd want to get the stuff in the oil out of the engine.

This is a 2019 Kia so will presumably have the full notional benefit of (mythical?) "modern tolerances" and skinny modern oil.

Still got glitter. and its not gold.

That's general support for the early oil change.

Re the argy-bargy about an early change for the CRV above, there's the complicating factor that Honda are widely believed to use a special break in oil they dont want changed early, though even this is disputed, and allegedly may vary by market.,

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/2018-honda-crv-factory-filled-engine-oil.282388/#post-4636808

Edited by edlithgow on 27/07/2020 at 17:51