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Fridge temperature... - martin085

Hi all,

What is the correct temperature range for the fridge section on a fridge/freezer?

With a recommended set point of 5 C, I am getting measurements ranging from 1.0 C to 7 C throughout the day.

This seems to me to be an excessive range.

Does the auto defrost have a bearing on the large fluctuation, and is 7C safe?

Fridge temperature... - Bromptonaut

Most sources say temperature should be between 3 and 5 celcius. Too low and stuff at the back will freeze. Too high and (obviously) the benefits of refrigeration start to fall off.

Auto defrost in a normal fridge is mostly about draining the condensate that would in the past have gone into a drip tray that needed emptying. It does not involve heat.

I presume it's air temperature you're measuring which will fluctuate, particularly in current weather where air is 25-30C. My own theory is that it's the temperature of the contents thatr matters and I think (say) a bottle of milk that's got down to 5 or less won't warm up that quickly even with an inrush of ambient air.

Fridge temperature... - Andrew-T

The first fridge/freezer we had with auto-defrost had to be replaced because the warm-up cycle didn't last long enough for the condensate to drain fully, so that the drain holes blocked with ice. I don't know the frequency of auto-defrost, but every day seems rather too much.

Fridges generally are advised at about 5°C, but the range you are seeing should be OK.

Fridge temperature... - Engineer Andy

To make the most out of a fridge or freezer, it needs to be situated in a reasonably cool environment, and, very importantly, to have sufficient space around the unit (including behind and above) for air to circulate, because that is how (by convection) they reject heat to the room to keep the inside within the desired temperature range. This should be coevered in the unit's manual.

Obviously the temperature varies quite a bit within a fridge, hence why the manual recommends certain foods be placed in certain areas. Sometimes, the specific placement of a separate fridge thermometer can make a huge difference as to what temperature it reads, in addition to how well the unit can perform in summer conditions when the room it's in is much warmer.

Additionally, it's best to keep an eye on that thermometer in case the temperature starts rising without any significant increase in room temperature. This could be because either (or more than one reason):

  1. Ventilation around the unit is poor, and the unit is already working at full chaff and cannot do any more to keep the contents at the desired temperature, even if you turn the dial to its minimum temperature setting.
  2. The door is not shutting properly (due to misalignment when being installed or a poor fit and finish on the general design) and for similar reasons to 1, the higher room temperature means it struggles to maintain its internal set point.
  3. There is a leak of refrigerant gas (like in a car) becaue the unit is old, a faulty part or weld has allowed some gas to escape (as happened with my previous fridge) and the unit again cannot now cope with higher room temperatures.
  4. The fridge is overloaded. Unlike freezers, fridges do not like being filled up to the gills and the door left open for ages whilst you fill/use it. Air needs to circulate within the fridge as well (see the manual). Sometimes restocking a fridge will mean for a time the temperature will inevitably rise whilst the new food cools down.

That being said, if it only goes up to 7degC, then it's not too bad - just make sure that you keep an eye on temperatures generally and look at and smell food and drinks (milk) to see if they show signs of perishing, and keep them in the correct area.

To help keep the room at a reasonable temperature, try opening the window or ventilation slot/flap above it if safe and ok on security - but only after dark when the outside temperature drops to below that of the room - counter-productive otherwise. I also will not do so if the light needs to stay on in the room because it attracts insects (especially moths).

My (ground floor) flat's windows have ventilation flaps above them, so I leave them open overnight when its cooler outside - even last night (18degC to 15degC outside) it was enough to reduce the room temperature by about 1degC more than if they were closed.

Sometimes I stay up an extra 30-60 minutes in summer evenings with the lights all off and the windows open to let in some cooler air to help, then shut them all (not the vents, which stay open until morning) when I go to bed.

If you live in a house, then if you can do this, open windows (and vent flaps) at both top and bottom floors as this will encourage the warm air to rise and leave the building and cooler air to come in at ground/lower floor level to replace it.

Fridge temperature... - FP

I can't speak too highly of our Bosch frost-free fridge-freezer.

There is no frost - ever, so no need for defrosting, automatic of otherwise. The result is a perfectly stable temperature - always.

Fridge temperature... - sammy1

Sometimes I stay up an extra 30-60 minutes in summer evenings with the lights all off and the windows open to let in some cooler air to help, then shut them all (not the vents, which stay open until morning) when I go to bed.

On a day like today I will be sat in front of mine with the freezer door wide open!!!

Fridge temperature... - concrete

We have a free standing AEG larder fridge. There are various settings on the control panel and we try to keep the internal temperature at 5C. It can go to 8C after loading a weekly shop into it, but quickly goes down to 5C again. It also has a setting if you put anything warm into the fridge, very clever. It never freezes food and not having a freezer compartment never needs de-frosting. The manual says the maximum recommended temperature internally is 10C but recommends 5C. Never had a separate thermometer to test the settings, but never had any trouble with spoiled food either. It could be the OP has a problem fridge that needs repair or the siting is incorrect. The manual should provide all the information needed.

Cheers Concrete

Fridge temperature... - Andrew-T

On a day like today I will be sat in front of mine with the freezer door wide open!!!

I hope you're joking .... :-)

Fridge temperature... - Engineer Andy

Sometimes I stay up an extra 30-60 minutes in summer evenings with the lights all off and the windows open to let in some cooler air to help, then shut them all (not the vents, which stay open until morning) when I go to bed.

On a day like today I will be sat in front of mine with the freezer door wide open!!!

I do hope you're joking Sammy, as the unit just kicks out the back the heat that it extracts from the interior of the freezer, and they aren't over 100% efficient either.

Plus you now have frozen food that partially defrosts, meaning they are not safe to eat if refrozen.

The only way your methodology would work is if you had nothing in the freezer, and its condensing coil is situated outside (preferably on a north-facing wall or permanently shady spot) with the rest of the sytsem indoors (how A/C systems are designed and installed).

Fridge temperature... - Joe-Alex

When you open the refrigerator door it allows in the (currently) hot air. When the door closes the refrigerator must work to cool the air inside back down to the given setting. Hence the fluctuations. If it is fluctuating throughout the day when not being opened, then I think that that is just a result of the ambient air temperature effecting the temperature within the refrigerator.

At least that how I understand it....could be completely wrong!

Fridge temperature... - madf

When you open the refrigerator door it allows in the (currently) hot air. When the door closes the refrigerator must work to cool the air inside back down to the given setting. Hence the fluctuations. If it is fluctuating throughout the day when not being opened, then I think that that is just a result of the ambient air temperature effecting the temperature within the refrigerator.

At least that how I understand it....could be completely wrong!

A lot depends on the sensors used.

Suppose you set it to 5C and it only triggers cooling at 5..5C. The cooling will start but not be immediate in effect - so the temperature could rise to (say) 6.5C and then cool down.

It it then falls to 5C and switches off the cooling but the pipes will still be cold so it could fall to (say) 4C...

That assumes the sensors work as designed and do not deteriorate with age....

Fridge temperature... - Avant

Sammy, when winter comes, please don't put your head in the oven....

Fridge temperature... - sammy1

I was trying to be light hearted after Andy's OTT about how to run a fridge, can he really be doing that? I have an electric oven so if the boiler goes I might just use it as a rad!

Fridge temperature... - thunderbird

When you open the refrigerator door it allows in the (currently) hot air. When the door closes the refrigerator must work to cool the air inside back down to the given setting. Hence the fluctuations.

This morning after we had been shopping I opened the fridge to put the chilled stuff away, the thermometer read 5 degrees. Opened and closed the door 3 or 4 times and spotted that the thermometer now read 10 degrees. Just checked and its back to 5. Its obvious to me that the temp will rise when the door is open but 5 degrees in having the door open for little more than a minute in total was a surprise. But then again, it is about 24 inside today.

Fridge temperature... - Bromptonaut

This morning after we had been shopping I opened the fridge to put the chilled stuff away, the thermometer read 5 degrees. Opened and closed the door 3 or 4 times and spotted that the thermometer now read 10 degrees. Just checked and its back to 5. Its obvious to me that the temp will rise when the door is open but 5 degrees in having the door open for little more than a minute in total was a surprise. But then again, it is about 24 inside today.

The fridge thermometer, whether inbuilt or standalone sitting on a shelf, measures the air temperature. If you open the fridge door then if the ambient air is warmer I suspect the cool air will spill out. Anybody who has stood barefoot and opened the door of a fridge or freezer has probably witnessed that phenomenon.

The temperature of milk, meat etc will not instantly rise because the air temperature is temporarily 12 degrees. The contents may take up a little bit of that heat but as soon as the door is closed the fridge mechanism will cool the air and all returns to normal.

I'd start to worry if milk bottles felt warm and the milk was off or curdling ahead of it's use by date These are usually quite conservative and in most well run supermarket distribution/sales chillers followed by rapid post sale transfer to a domestic fridge they can be comfortably exceeded.

We have occasionally found milk curdling early during heatwaves, probably because the UK distribution/storage system struggles at temperatures of 30 or so.

Fridge temperature... - Engineer Andy

This morning after we had been shopping I opened the fridge to put the chilled stuff away, the thermometer read 5 degrees. Opened and closed the door 3 or 4 times and spotted that the thermometer now read 10 degrees. Just checked and its back to 5. Its obvious to me that the temp will rise when the door is open but 5 degrees in having the door open for little more than a minute in total was a surprise. But then again, it is about 24 inside today.

The fridge thermometer, whether inbuilt or standalone sitting on a shelf, measures the air temperature. If you open the fridge door then if the ambient air is warmer I suspect the cool air will spill out. Anybody who has stood barefoot and opened the door of a fridge or freezer has probably witnessed that phenomenon.

The temperature of milk, meat etc will not instantly rise because the air temperature is temporarily 12 degrees. The contents may take up a little bit of that heat but as soon as the door is closed the fridge mechanism will cool the air and all returns to normal.

I'd start to worry if milk bottles felt warm and the milk was off or curdling ahead of it's use by date These are usually quite conservative and in most well run supermarket distribution/sales chillers followed by rapid post sale transfer to a domestic fridge they can be comfortably exceeded.

We have occasionally found milk curdling early during heatwaves, probably because the UK distribution/storage system struggles at temperatures of 30 or so.

A well-designed system should be able, in the UK, to easily cope with external temperatures up to 40degC. The problem is that less competent engineers, and more likely contractor-designed A/C and ventilation systems (for buildings) forget that most external A/C condensers will at some point in the day be in direct sunlight at approaching 40degC, rather than the shade at, say 30degC.

A safety-critical system such as a food storage or those supporting medical staff and systems should have a decent margin of safety - realistically, the 'outdoor units; (condensers) should be designed for a minimum of 40degC, whether they can be found a north-facing wall or not, but I'd oversize them more so these days and/or add shading if possible (without restricting airflow too much).

With domestic fridges and freezers, I don't think it helps that many modern homes (mine included) have realtively small, cramped kitchens that have poor air circulation, something ironically not helped by modern buildings being less draughty because of modern air tightness standards, especially where opening a window at night to help keep a Ground Floor room cool is not practical due to security concerns.

Fridge temperature... - Andrew-T

<< I'd start to worry if milk bottles felt warm and the milk was off or curdling ahead of it's use by date These are usually quite conservative and in most well run supermarket distribution/sales chillers followed by rapid post sale transfer to a domestic fridge they can be comfortably exceeded. >>

You have to factor-in human error. Last week SWMBO ordered a click-&-collect from a Well-known national s'market chain, including two 8-packs of yogurt. When she got home, one pack was just 3 days within date, the other was already a week over. I wondered what sort of stock control that store was operating. After complaining (and throwing away the offending item) she got a refund, but it shouldn't have happened.

More recently a similar order from the same store included two bags intended for another customer. The next order will come from somewhere else,.

Fridge temperature... - Engineer Andy

I was trying to be light hearted after Andy's OTT about how to run a fridge, can he really be doing that? I have an electric oven so if the boiler goes I might just use it as a rad!

Actuallly:

a) I was bored, so had the time for a thorough comment;

b) You'd be surprised at how many people make comments as your previous one that were actually serious;

c) You'd also be surprised at how stupid some people are, including those who are 'trained' engineers can be as regards what most of us think of as 'common sense'.

A former employer (bearing in mind this was a top Building Services Consultancy's HQ in London) had a poorly ventilated office with low ceilings, no A/C except for a few meeting rooms here and there, with the building crammed full (way too many for the space) of people and the usual (heat generating) equipment such as photocopiers, PCs, etc.

They had a kitchenette on my floor which was completely internal (i.e. not on an outside wall with a window to open for ventilation) with no extract fan, and thus the fridge regularly would be WAY above the recommended temperature and food/milk went off.

This, for a workplace with people who DESIGN ventilation and air conditioning systems for a living, some with decades of experience and many letters after their names, who contribute to industry 'best practice' and design guidance documents.

This sort of thing (not practicing what they preach or not realising the problem at all) sadly isn't uncommon.

God help us.

Fridge temperature... - thunderbird

Building services engineers, we employed a right numpty once. he won the tender for designing the job which included electrical, new gas boiler onto modified system, A/C for the offices and teaching rooms and compressed air for the workshops.

We got on well and when we found out I had actually been based in his FIL's office as a young apprentice for a few weeks, he spoke to him and I discovered lots about people I had not seen for over 20 years. Planned to use him on other projects.

Then came the commissioning of the compressed air. The installers had done everything as per the drawings but the commissioning engineer refused to do any work since pieces of apparatus were in the wrong order. So I called the designer to site for a meeting with the contractors and immediately was told that he had never done compressed air before and had simply designed it in what seemed the best way to fit the equipment. No idea how much it cost him to have the installers do it right but when I asked them why on earth they never raised the fact it was all wrong they never replied, probably saw an opportunity to get paid twice.

Fridge temperature... - RT

Building services engineers, we employed a right numpty once. he won the tender for designing the job which included electrical, new gas boiler onto modified system, A/C for the offices and teaching rooms and compressed air for the workshops.

We got on well and when we found out I had actually been based in his FIL's office as a young apprentice for a few weeks, he spoke to him and I discovered lots about people I had not seen for over 20 years. Planned to use him on other projects.

Then came the commissioning of the compressed air. The installers had done everything as per the drawings but the commissioning engineer refused to do any work since pieces of apparatus were in the wrong order. So I called the designer to site for a meeting with the contractors and immediately was told that he had never done compressed air before and had simply designed it in what seemed the best way to fit the equipment. No idea how much it cost him to have the installers do it right but when I asked them why on earth they never raised the fact it was all wrong they never replied, probably saw an opportunity to get paid twice.

I lost faith in consultant engineers back in the '80s - I was IT manager for a large multi-national and we had a new HQ built in Leicester - in those days the computer suite produced large amounts of heat so we had a triple banked cooling system which ran in series - stupidly they didn't include any warning lights to show if the outside units were actually working so we only knew when all three had failed was when the internal temperature rose - with simple warning lights we could have called the engineers when one or two had failed rather than waiting for all three.

Fridge temperature... - thunderbird

I actually worked for a company of Consulting Engineers until I retired and they made some right balls ups over the years. On one occasion a stage payment had been authorised but 5 months later it was found that a critically important piece of kit was missing, a sewage pump and there was a huge mess developing at the wet well. So I was called into the boss to explain why I had authorised payment but I fortunately had a get out of jail free card, at the time I was on leave for 2 weeks and another engineer had copied and pasted my signature on the electronic document.

Cost the company loads but they did not sack the culprit. Had a very difficult working relationship with that person for the next 8 years.

Fridge temperature... - concrete

lost faith in consultant engineers back in the '80s - I was IT manager for a large multi-national and we had a new HQ built in Leicester - in those days the computer suite produced large amounts of heat so we had a triple banked cooling system which ran in series - stupidly they didn't include any warning lights to show if the outside units were actually working so we only knew when all three had failed was when the internal temperature rose - with simple warning lights we could have called the engineers when one or two had failed rather than waiting for all three.

One of my lecturers at night school(that should date me!) had a sign he would hang beside the blackboard. It read: 'Just because you are clever doesn't stop you being a fool" Especially for the know it all types who often made simple errors by not thinking things through carefully. Not all experts are good but at least with a consultant chartered engineer he will have Personal Indemnity insurance should a grievous error result in a cliam.

Cheers Concrete

Fridge temperature... - Engineer Andy

Lots of familiar stories there - cheers guys!

So many 'incidents' over the years with various employers and contractors - too many to list them all.

One I remember was a colleague working on a BT data centre project forgot to check the contractor's 'alternative equipment' (big close control A/C cabinet) against what could fit into the room (odd shape), only for it to not fit. The type of unit cost in the region (back in the early 2000s) about £20k.

The most recent one - on my first day at work in my last job, I was asked to check over the work of a colleague (same level of seniority as myself) that was at the construction stage. I think it was more to see me demonstrate my ability just to pick out the odd small mistake here and there (you can see what's coming next) more than a proper check (more on that later).

Needless to say, I found that he hadn't checked to see if the ventilation ductwork could fit in the remaining areas of the ceiling void left after the A/C indoor units were installed - they couldn't in about 4 or 5 places.

It meant that on day 1 it was all hands to the pumps to completely redesign the entire new layout (new build lab building) in 1-2 weeks, including all new drawings, all whilst fitting in with apparently an already tight work schedule on other projects.

Needless to say, it was a sign of things to come down the line, and I called time on my entire career less than a year later (that job was the industry's last chance) because I was fed up with all the constant BS, being forced to send out cr@p and/or unfinished and (increasingly unchecked by a peer or senior colleague) work and often lie at meetings, on emails and in phonecalls. That was 3 years ago.

As regards fridge/freezer issues in homes, not really a surprise, given that most homes are very lucky if any design engineer (M or E) of note have ever seen or contributed to the design - most are pseudo engineers working for the building contractor or a subbie on the basis of 'how quick can I do it?' Rarely is sufficient space allowed for either. Firms of mine have regularly been brought in to fix others mistakes.

I just got fed up with it all. Still haven't found a suitable replacement career since - not helped now by current world events (I was thinking of a move abroad once a career was found).

Fridge temperature... - Andrew-T

<< in those days the computer suite produced large amounts of heat >>

Back in the 80s the site where I worked decided to 'tightly couple' a second (Hitachi) mainframe computer to its existing IBM machine, which had a large associated cooling system. The Hitachi didn't need one.

Fridge temperature... - RT

<< in those days the computer suite produced large amounts of heat >>

Back in the 80s the site where I worked decided to 'tightly couple' a second (Hitachi) mainframe computer to its existing IBM machine, which had a large associated cooling system. The Hitachi didn't need one.

By then, IBM were using super-cooling to speed up their processors.

Fridge temperature... - Paul_1

Hi Martin

If you just keep it somewhere between 3 and 4 on the little dial it will work well.

The higher the number on the dial - the colder the fridge. But somewhere near 4 is good.

I used to work in the prarmaceutical industry and they defined fridge temperature as 5 +/- 3 degrees C. So that would work out as anywhere between 2-8 celsius.

Hope this helps

Fridge temperature... - catsdad

We had a scheduled power outage for eight hours yesterday. A couple of days before I loaded up the fridge with cans etc to give some chilled bulk and added ice blocks to the freezer.

Yesterday I put a remote sensor on the top shelf of the fridge and it started the day around 7c and was still below 9c after eight hours. Pretty impressive for a cheap Hotpoint appliance.

I know from previous experiments that the lower shelves will have been colder, probably below 5c.

Fridge temperature... - Engineer Andy

We had a scheduled power outage for eight hours yesterday. A couple of days before I loaded up the fridge with cans etc to give some chilled bulk and added ice blocks to the freezer.

Yesterday I put a remote sensor on the top shelf of the fridge and it started the day around 7c and was still below 9c after eight hours. Pretty impressive for a cheap Hotpoint appliance.

I know from previous experiments that the lower shelves will have been colder, probably below 5c.

When my fridge broke a month or so ago, I too was doing the 'ice blocks' routine - for 2 weeks, mainly because there are shortages of replacements at many stores, and deliveries (unless you want to pay a lot) were scarce and booked well into the future.

I had to, every 4-8 hours (depending on usage and the time of day) changeover one set of ice blocks from my freezer with those thawing out in the old fridge (leaking refigerant meant almost no cooling effect).

Whilst an absolute pain to do, it did manage to keep the fridge at an average temperature of about 5-7degC, which mean all the food was fine throughout - though I refrained from buying any quick-spoiling soft fruit etc during that time.

Doing the same on the day the new unit arrived (and the old unit was taken away for recycling) was also surprisingly productive when using my cool bag isntead of the fridge, when I had to turn it off and clean it out - something that had to be done 2-3 hours in advance of the delivery people arriving.

I'm glad my new one is cooling nicely (though not as quiet as the old one) to 4degC. One thing I did notice when looking for a replacement (and for freezers, given mine is 20 years old now - double the age of the outgoing fridge) is how much thicker the insulation is than units from 10+ years ago. You either have to put up with less storage space for the same overall size, or get a bigger one.

My new unit barely fitted the space, with just a few milimeters of space between it and the freezer opposite when the door of either is open - the old one was 2cm less deep/wide and had the same storage capacity. Glad I measured up first!

Fridge temperature... - Engineer Andy

I've never come across this issue before but my refrigerator didn't work clearly due to refrigerant leak. It is caused by holes or cracks in the coils that circulate the refrigerant. That's it's important to be careful as it may be harmful to one's health. To identify this problem I bought detector, here is a great review

Obviously your spam slices didn't go off...

Forget 'leak detectors', below are two sure-fire wasys of knowing your fridge has a refrigerant leak:

1. The normal operating temperature cannot be maintained and it keeps rising over time;

2. You can smell smething near the unit that also gives a bitter taste on your tongue - that's the refrigerant escaping in gaseous form.

Time to change the unit, pronto if either start to occur. Any diagnosis and repair would be more than any of us could succesfully carry out and would be prhibitively expensive to get a technician in (unless they could do under warranty - more likely a replace-it completely job).