Any - Wolf in sheep’s clothing

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Mon 4 May 2020 09:34
Any - Wolf in sheep’s clothing - elekie&a/c doctor
Just been trawling through thousands of photos I’ve taken over the years, and think I have found my favourite motor . It’s the MB 500e (W124 chassis) from the 90s . 5 litre V8 lifted from the SL , and a few tweaks from Porsche. Not massively powerful, but a fast comfy saloon . Discreetly flaired wheel arches , it could be a 200e , to the uninitiated. Left drive only , but who cares .
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Mon 4 May 2020 11:01
Any - Wolf in sheep’s clothing - SLO76
Did like them. Subtle yet powerful, comfortable yet fun, expensive but tough. A great car. I do like a powerful big saloon but I also enjoy a lightweight fun car too much to allow one car to be my favourite.

I’d have a 126 series 87-90 Mercedes 500SE and a Peugeot 205 GTi 1.9 if you please but then the latter will probably change every ten minutes or so. I still think the 126 series Mercedes was the most elegant and beautifully made luxury car ever so that’s gonna stick, maybe it is my favourite car of all time. The V8 had a fair turn of speed but it’s not really a wolf in sheep’s clothing though in the 126.

I did like the idea of the BMW E34 535I SE manual though or the later E39 540. Both looked nothing more than a 520i SE but could go like stink. I’d rather have subtle power than shout about it like the M series cars.

Edited by SLO76 on 04/05/2020 at 11:10

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Mon 4 May 2020 11:10
Any - Wolf in sheep’s clothing - Alby Back

I love Mercs, always have. It's my dad's fault, he got me a 1960 190SL as my first car. Well, sort of, it was a pedal car !

Now I have a sheep in wolf's clothing. The rather wordily described AMG Night Edition Premium Plus E class Estate. Looks fast, but it only has the 2.1 diesel engine !

Ach well, I like it. ;-)

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Mon 4 May 2020 14:38
Any - Wolf in sheep’s clothing - barney100

My favourite was a loaned and almost new S class 350 Mercedes. So deceptively powerful in a mature way. It was so comfortable and bumps and potholes went almost unnoticed and when you put your foot down it just went. I'd love one if I could afford it and convince SWMBO.

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Mon 4 May 2020 11:11
Any - Wolf in sheep’s clothing - FP

" Not massively powerful, but a fast comfy saloon ."

How on earth can a car with a 5-litre engine not be massively powerful?

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Mon 4 May 2020 11:34
Any - Wolf in sheep’s clothing - bathtub tom

I scratched an itch back in the '70s with a 2 litre Triumph Vitesse - most people seemed to think it was a Herald, including a dealer in Holland. I went there with a horrible noise that turned out to be a failing UJ. They insisted on booking it in as a Herald and seemed never to have seen a Vitesse. When I lifted the bonnet the mechanic went and got all his mates to have a look.

The traffic light grand prix was a hoot, but oh those swing axles!

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Mon 4 May 2020 14:39
Any - Wolf in sheep’s clothing - barney100

Mate had one of those, a veritable flying machine.

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Mon 4 May 2020 23:13
Any - Wolf in sheep’s clothing - Andrew-T

When I lifted the bonnet the mechanic went and got all his mates to have a look.

That used to happen when we drove our Morris 1100 around the western US back in the mid-60s. Nobody had ever seen a transverse engine. Soon afterwards Buick introduced something called a Toronado (IIRC) with one, probably a 4½-litre, which I think had some handling problems.

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Tue 5 May 2020 09:56
Any - Wolf in sheep’s clothing - John F

Nobody had ever seen a transverse engine. Soon afterwards Buick introduced something called a Toronado (IIRC) with one, probably a 4½-litre, which I think had some handling problems.

I remember c.1967 nearly missing a connection at Retford station, not realising it was on two levels, and being school boy astounded by an Oldsmobile Toronado parked outside. They had a massive 7 litre V8, but I don't think it was transverse. However, the standard autobox was, because amazingly, it was front wheel drive. I read later that a pop star lived locally - no idea who, but clearly a connoisseur of US muscle cars. It would have been good in snow!

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Fri 8 May 2020 08:27
Any - Wolf in sheep’s clothing - craig-pd130

I scratched an itch back in the '70s with a 2 litre Triumph Vitesse - most people seemed to think it was a Herald, including a dealer in Holland. I went there with a horrible noise that turned out to be a failing UJ.

The traffic light grand prix was a hoot, but oh those swing axles!

Remember the bolt-on Shorrocks supercharger kits for the Triumph 6-cylinder engines? A mate of mine had a Vitesse and was always on the lookout for a Shorrocks kit ...

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Mon 4 May 2020 12:27
Any - Wolf in sheep’s clothing - Engineer Andy

The Vauxhall Carlton GSi 3000 (the Lotus Carlton was more noticeable, even if it was super fast). Been driven in one by a schoolfriend (just passed his test as well at the time) whose Dad worked as a suit for the company. A serious amount of pace that car had, like its Senator brother.

Apparently (according to HJ Classics), the Nissan Almera (mkI) GTi could be had without the bodykit, so you wouldn't easily know it was one from the outside. A decent amount of pace (143hp) for a smallish, light car.

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Mon 4 May 2020 13:19
Any - Wolf in sheep’s clothing - nellyjak

I like the big Mercs from the 80's/90's too...and I'll throw in one my favourites ...the Lexus LS400..circa '99-2000..I think that was the fourth or fifth generation.?

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Mon 4 May 2020 16:01
Any - Wolf in sheep’s clothing - badbusdriver

How on earth can a car with a 5-litre engine not be massively powerful?

Strange question.

In the USA Back in the 70's, emissions equipment strangled many of the big V8 engines drastically. I'm pretty sure at one point the 5.0 V8 Ford Mustang (the awful Pinto based one) only had about 100bhp, maybe a bit less. Around the same time, you could buy an 8.2 litre V8 Cadillac with 180bhp.

But in the case of the Merc 500E in question, while it is a relative term, the statement is a simple fact. The car was made from 1990-1995, and while its 322bhp was a decent amount of power at the time, it wasn't notably so. The BMW M5 of the time (the E39) made just under 400bhp from its V8 (also 5.0). But as i said, it is a relative term, if you look at the current crop of uber saloons, they are packing 600bhp, more in the case of a couple of them!. So 322bhp from a 5.0 V8 wasn't a massive amount of power back when the car was new never, mind now. In fact the current top of the range Mercedes A class (hot hatch), the AMG A45S makes 415bhp from its 2.0 turbo.........

But, i am also a big fan of the 500E (it became the E500 from 1994 following Mercs change of naming policy). Though given the choice, i'd go back even further to a rather more obscure machine i read about as a car mad youth in the mid-late 80's, the AMG "Hammer"!. At the time, Mercedes had no competitor to the M5, but if you had plenty of money, AMG (still a seperate entity at the time, more like Alpina's relationship with BMW) would build you one of these by taking a W124 300E saloon off the production line and stuffing it with all manner of exotic ingredients including a hand built 5.6 litre 360(ish)bhp V8. The result was subtle, but menacing at the same time (like the 500e actually):

i.pinimg.com/originals/c0/3a/fa/c03afa4592763fc0e0...g

There are a couple of even older Mercedes super saloons though.

In 1968 they brought out the (W109) 350SEL 6.3. Which had, as its name suggests, a 6.3 litre V8 packing 250bhp.

But they upped the ante for its replacement, creating the 450 SEL 6.9 which went on sale in 1975. This produced 286bhp, and included in the list of famous owners is one James Hunt!.

Edited by badbusdriver on 04/05/2020 at 16:02

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Mon 4 May 2020 17:22
Any - Wolf in sheep’s clothing - daveyjp

Great video of the 6.3 from a really excellent youtube channel if you like car perfection.

https://youtu.be/vMxXmkpKWY4

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Mon 4 May 2020 18:07
Any - Wolf in sheep’s clothing - John F

My unassuming Audi A8 is a good example of a woolly wolf. Only the discreet W12 badges betray its 6 litre 4x4 444bhp hooligan potential. The quintessential Q car?

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Mon 4 May 2020 18:51
Any - Wolf in sheep’s clothing - gordonbennet

The W124 saloon sitting on the right wheels and in the right colour combination is one of the most timeless handsome cars ever designed, better looking IMO than the coupe (i have one) and convertible which are hampered by a much lower roofline as well a about a foot shorter which unbalances the shape.

You can still buy excellent (facelift) E500's, every now and again one of two get shipped in from Japan, where they won't have seen any salt.

Horsepower isn't everything, its instantly available torque that counts unless on a track.

SWMBO Forester XT is a bit of lurker, 2.5 boxer turbocharged, supposed to be 227hp but when we had it LPG converted it became apparent the standard LPG injectors couldn't supply enough juice at full throttle in kickdown (auto) so the chap had to ease some petrol in to assist fuelling during such maneuvers, he also discovered the turbo pressure is running somewhat higher than expected, i have no idea if anythings been done to it in the past everything looks bog standard, basically it takes off like scalded cat (weighs next to nothing) but looks like an ice cream van, no badges no fancy exhausts, the only giveaway is the intercooler intake on the bonnet.

Edited by gordonbennet on 04/05/2020 at 19:29

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Mon 4 May 2020 18:51
Any - Wolf in sheep’s clothing - Mr D Og

A true wolf in sheep clothing has to look the part and that's why I'd choose the staid old barge estate – Volvo 850 T5-R circa 1994. It looked like a plodder but it's 5 cylinder turbo charged engine pushed output to just under 240 bhp and it could manage 0-60mph in 7 seconds with top speed over 150mph. Must have given a few 'boy racers' a fright!

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Mon 4 May 2020 18:58
Any - Wolf in sheep’s clothing - elekie&a/c doctor
Volvo T5 . Very popular with Mr Plod .
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Mon 4 May 2020 19:01
Any - Wolf in sheep’s clothing - Trilogy.

Mr D Og, that has to be the ultimate Q-car. When it was launched Volvo was best known for staid cars. I seem to remember Volvo entered the estate into the touring car championships, complete with an image of a labrador in the back.

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Tue 5 May 2020 09:58
Any - Wolf in sheep’s clothing - injection doc

Always a fan of something subtle

I Had a Vauxhall Carlton GSi 24V, having had a GSi3000 beforehand, I have to say the difference was like chalk and cheese. The 24V GSI was superb and the legs it had for a car of that era was astonishing. Needless to say I kept it 7 years and did over 170k miles with it and loved it.

Had some serious fun with it, in Europe it had a blast numerous times and often got the speedo up to 166mph indicated so most likley around the 150+ mark.

Terrific fun and huge comfort and not bad on fuel as mine was a manual.

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Tue 5 May 2020 09:59
Any - Wolf in sheep’s clothing - Brit_in_Germany

Or an RS4 Avant with 600 HP.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiuLvLobAs4

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Tue 5 May 2020 10:43
Any - Wolf in sheep’s clothing - madf

Lexus GS430 - understated but very smooth V8

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Fri 8 May 2020 08:25
Any - Wolf in sheep’s clothing - craig-pd130

A true wolf in sheep clothing has to look the part and that's why I'd choose the staid old barge estate – Volvo 850 T5-R circa 1994. It looked like a plodder but it's 5 cylinder turbo charged engine pushed output to just under 240 bhp and it could manage 0-60mph in 7 seconds with top speed over 150mph. Must have given a few 'boy racers' a fright!

Indeed, and also quite conservatively tuned from the factory. A simple remap and a couple of exhaust mods sees them above 300bhp with massive torque too. The limit with those cars is traction and torque-steer, not power ...

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Fri 8 May 2020 09:50
Any - Wolf in sheep’s clothing - John F

A true wolf in sheep clothing has to look the part and that's why I'd choose the staid old barge estate – Volvo 850 T5-R circa 1994......!

...... A simple remap and a couple of exhaust mods sees them above 300bhp with massive torque too. The limit with those cars is traction and torque-steer, not power ...

Quite so. You cannot apply much more than 300bhp to the tarmac without either four wheel drive or two stupidly large driven wheels, e.g. a dragster - or an Aston Martin DB9 which has much the same power and torque as my A8 but a sadly inadequate transmission beyond the same ZF gearbox.

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Fri 8 May 2020 13:18
Any - Wolf in sheep’s clothing - galileo

A true wolf in sheep clothing has to look the part and that's why I'd choose the staid old barge estate – Volvo 850 T5-R circa 1994. It looked like a plodder but it's 5 cylinder turbo charged engine pushed output to just under 240 bhp and it could manage 0-60mph in 7 seconds with top speed over 150mph. Must have given a few 'boy racers' a fright!

Indeed, and also quite conservatively tuned from the factory. A simple remap and a couple of exhaust mods sees them above 300bhp with massive torque too. The limit with those cars is traction and torque-steer, not power ...

These were very successful in BTCC racing, impressive to see these big estates thrown round the tracks and beating saloons from manufacturers with sporting histories.

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Fri 8 May 2020 17:59
Any - Wolf in sheep’s clothing - badbusdriver

These were very successful in BTCC racing, impressive to see these big estates thrown round the tracks and beating saloons from manufacturers with sporting histories.

The only way you could describe the BTCC 850 estates as a success would be from the perspective of raising brand awareness and making Volvo's desirable (which was exactly Volvo's reasoning behind entering the BTCC). They understeered badly and had poor weight distribution due to the heavy 5 cyl engine. Because of this, rivals could brake later going into a corner and get on the power earlier on the way out. They were not quite so handicapped on faster circuits where this wasn't as much of an issue (though the simple fact is 5th was the best result they ever managed), but on slower technical circuits they were way off the pace of the front runners.

Also worth pointing out that the estate body was a simple fluke due to circumstances. SAM, the Swedish outfit Volvo outsourced the development (for racing) to, went to the factory to pickup a fresh bodyshell. The only available one was the estate, and as SAM didn't want to delay the project, they just went with it.

That is not to take anything away from the BTCC 850's coolness though!.

Edited by badbusdriver on 08/05/2020 at 18:00

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