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Daihatsu Skywing - Hub-Over-Disk Risk - edlithgow

Further to my suspected front hub bearing problem, the disks had rusted up a bit during the winter vacation, so I cleaned them up using my locally disapproved-of beer can trick.

www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=110241

I'd stripped and cleaned the passenger side caliper before the vacation.

There now seems to be less brake drag, and less of a temperature rise, but there is STILL a consistent temperature differential between the passenger and driver side drive shaft end of about 10 degrees C after two successive 20k-ish night time runs.

Driver Side front 43 43

Driver Side rear 33 33

Passenger Side front 52 51

Passenger side rear 33 32

Not as scary as the 90's I was seeing before (though I'll test a longer run) but still apparently consistent with a passenger side bearing problem.

I've been reluctant to take it apart because its undocumented, I probably can't get spares, and there seems to be a general concern about the risk of wrecking bearings using a puller or slide hammer on these hub-over-disk / captive rotor designs

Here''s Eric the Car Guy on this, at about 1 min 40 secs in.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=UirzXEmnxVc

He's talking about the Honda Accord.

This guy seems to get away with it OK (at about 4:40 in) on a Daihatsu Cuore, which has similar-looking brakes to the Skywing.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVMbj0qoRRw&t=6s

I dunno if its less of a risk with the Daihatsu design for some reason, or he just got lucky.

I downloaded a Mira workshop manual which seems very similar, and they also suggest using a puller on the hub.

Oddly, no bearing replacement procedure seems to be specified in the Mira manual, though checking for excess free play is mentioned.

I suppose you would either have to press out the bearing from the hub (I'd probably have to outsource that) IF replacements are available, or replace the whole hub, which almost certainly wont be available.

So, should I risk pulling it apart to re-pack the bearing and maybe get the code number off the shell?

Decisions, Decisions

Edited by edlithgow on 15/03/2020 at 12:43

Daihatsu Skywing - Hub-Over-Disk Risk - Bolt

As a matter of interest, is there a company like SKF bearings out there as they will make up bearings to spec, though no idea of price, its just a thought so sorry if no use...

Daihatsu Skywing - Hub-Over-Disk Risk - edlithgow

As a matter of interest, is there a company like SKF bearings out there as they will make up bearings to spec, though no idea of price, its just a thought so sorry if no use...

Thanks. Don't know.

I'd think there must be bearing suppliers. I dunno if there'll be bespoke bearing suppliers, and if there are they'll be hard to locate and to harder communicate with.

I'll attack that bridge if I have to.

For now I'm after opinions on

a How risky it is to take this hub type apart

b) Whether the observed temperature difference justifies that risk

Perhaps an unanswerable question. but I'll need to answer it.

Daihatsu Skywing - Hub-Over-Disk Risk - thunderbird

In the past all I have needed to do is take a bearing into a specialist company (several round these parts) and they simply cross reference the part and supply a replacement. I have never known a bearing specific to a particular car or model, they are all standard industry parts and readily available.

Daihatsu Skywing - Hub-Over-Disk Risk - edlithgow

In the past all I have needed to do is take a bearing into a specialist company (several round these parts) and they simply cross reference the part and supply a replacement. I have never known a bearing specific to a particular car or model, they are all standard industry parts and readily available.

That was my general understanding and UK experience, though Honda are reliably reported to specify unobtainable bearings, at least on motorcycles, possibly for planned obsolescence.

Here I have the additional problems of my lack of Chinese, and the prevailing CANT DO mechanical culture.

Its soo much easier to say MEIO! Too Old! for anything over about 10 years, so that's generally what they do.

If I had the bearing code though, they wouldn't necessarily know it was for a 33 year old car, which might help.

Daihatsu Skywing - Hub-Over-Disk Risk - John F

a) How risky it is to take this hub type apart

Dunno

b) Whether the observed temperature difference justifies that risk

Not for me. Unless the bearing is whining and grinding intrusively, I would leave well alone. The improvement from fettling the brake seems to indicate where the problem was - and perhaps still is a bit. If it works reasonably well, don't mend it!

Daihatsu Skywing - Hub-Over-Disk Risk - edlithgow

a) How risky it is to take this hub type apart

Dunno

b) Whether the observed temperature difference justifies that risk

Not for me. Unless the bearing is whining and grinding intrusively, I would leave well alone. The improvement from fettling the brake seems to indicate where the problem was - and perhaps still is a bit. If it works reasonably well, don't mend it!

Thanks.

Re "The improvement from fettling the brake seems to indicate where the problem was - and perhaps still is a bit"

Removing the brakes completely and motoring the hubs in second gear on jackstands still showed a (consistent but smaller) temperature difference, so I think there is more here than just brake binding, though there was that as well.

forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/uploads/default/optimized...g

Daihatsu Skywing - Hub-Over-Disk Risk - John F

"The improvement from fettling the brake seems to indicate where the problem was - and perhaps still is a bit"

Removing the brakes completely and motoring the hubs in second gear on jackstands still showed a (consistent but smaller) temperature difference, so I think there is more here than just brake binding, though there was that as well.

forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/uploads/default/optimized...g

Brilliant graph. You've proved it's the brakes! I presume the ambient temperature is around 20 in your neck of the woods.

Daihatsu Skywing - Hub-Over-Disk Risk - edlithgow

"The improvement from fettling the brake seems to indicate where the problem was - and perhaps still is a bit"

Removing the brakes completely and motoring the hubs in second gear on jackstands still showed a (consistent but smaller) temperature difference, so I think there is more here than just brake binding, though there was that as well.

forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/uploads/default/optimized...g

Brilliant graph. You've proved it's the brakes!

Don't think I have.

I've think I've proved, or at least provided evidence consistent with, it probably being the brakes AND something else, with the most obvio0us candidate being bearing failure, since a temperature difference persists with the brakes removed...

Though there wasn't much hub looseness evident when doing the 12 to 6, 9 to 3 rock, there was quite noticable run-out wobble when it was running, though I don't have a dial guage thingy to measure it with.

It seems likely that this itself would cause brake heating when the brakes were actually fitted, (as well as any indirect heating from a hot bearing), even if there was nothing wrong with the brakes themselves

""I presume the ambient temperature is around 20 in your neck of the woods"

.In the bleak mid winter.

(Its bleak because the air pollution is worse then)

Edited by edlithgow on 16/03/2020 at 13:22

Daihatsu Skywing - Hub-Over-Disk Risk - edlithgow

As a matter of interest, is there a company like SKF bearings out there as they will make up bearings to spec, though no idea of price, its just a thought so sorry if no use...

Googling SKF Taiwan does turn up some web presence (in Chinese of course) which is a bit encouraging

Daihatsu Skywing - Hub-Over-Disk Risk - Bolt

As a matter of interest, is there a company like SKF bearings out there as they will make up bearings to spec, though no idea of price, its just a thought so sorry if no use...

Googling SKF Taiwan does turn up some web presence (in Chinese of course) which is a bit encouraging

Google here translates any language to English if you need it but no idea if it does your end?

which may help....

As has been said, unless its badly whining I`d leave it as it could go on for years like that.

I`ve only ever known a Ford escort front wheel bearing to weld together as it was constantly driven around the M25, driver felt engine slow down gradually over the miles without realising the hub was badly overheating and welded the hub together

wheel was written off with hub after he just managed to get to main dealer I worked for at the time, never seen one like it since or before.....

Edited by bolt on 16/03/2020 at 06:09