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Volkswagen Polo - MK2F Polo Parade Coupe 1994 M reg starting problems - Co2-UK

I've got a 1994 m reg polo parade coupe that won't run. Engine code is AAU.

Here is what I know so far:

Vehicle started surging when driving - got worse over time.

Started losing power - accelerate when pulling away and lack of power, full throttle seemed to make it worst whereas slight throttle was better-ish. Revs would pick up and then it would accelerate as usual but with surging.

Vehicle cut out - not suddenly but wouldn't start again. Removed throttle body and cleaned it out. Replaced fuel filter, distributor cap and top vacuum pipe.

Seemed to work again for another couple of weeks but felt less powerful than usual, needed extra throttle when starting. Crappy idle when cold. Higher revs at idle after getting warm.

Lost power again not suddenly but as driving it got worse and now won't run for longer than a couple of seconds. Replaced ignition leads, spark plugs, distributor rotor arm. Removed throttle body again and cleaned out again. Still not working.

Checked compression and all readings are good/normal.

It won't start with all spark plugs in (at least won't start and run for any length of time more than a few seconds) but if you remove one (any one) and leave three in it will start and tick over.

Any ideas on what to check/replace next?

I'm thinking hall sensor/sender and/or ignition coil.


Many thanks!

Edited by Co2-UK on 14/03/2020 at 19:52

Volkswagen Polo - MK2F Polo Parade Coupe 1994 M reg starting problems - elekie&a/c doctor
I guess this is running Bosch mono Motronic single point injection system . Couple of points to check . The throttle body is mounted on a rubber flex “sandwich “ plate . Make sure this is not split and letting in air . Also a faulty engine coolant temp sensor could cause these issues, sending incorrect info to the engine Ecu . This car does have limited diagnostic facilities, but it is pre Obd , so would need an appropriate tester with the 2 din leads .
Volkswagen Polo - MK2F Polo Parade Coupe 1994 M reg starting problems - Co2-UK

It is running the mono motronic spi system. I have checked the sandwich plate and it seems to be in good order. I have heard of faulty coolant temp sensors so that could be an issue.

Volkswagen Polo - MK2F Polo Parade Coupe 1994 M reg starting problems - Co2-UK

Here is a link to a selection of videos I have saved from failure until present. Couple of videos are just filming in the dark so it'll be noise that might help.

imgur.com/gallery/bFZeTrW

Volkswagen Polo - MK2F Polo Parade Coupe 1994 M reg starting problems - Railroad.

Don't waste your money on a new Hall Sensor. That will not be the problem. It'll either work or it won't. Simple as that.

For an engine to run five things are needed.

1. Good supply of clean air.

2. Good supply of fuel

3. Good compression.

4. Good HT spark at the right time.

5. A clear exhaust.

I would suggest you concentrate next on number 5. A vacuum gauge will diagnose a blocked exhaust as well as vacuum leaks, incorrect timing, valve problems and more. Or you could drop the front pipe and run the engine to see if it improves. be mindful of upsetting your neighbours though.

Volkswagen Polo - MK2F Polo Parade Coupe 1994 M reg starting problems - bathtub tom

you could drop the front pipe and run the engine to see if it improves. be mindful of upsetting your neighbours though.

Mine would find that nothing after I once did a Redex de-coke.

Volkswagen Polo - MK2F Polo Parade Coupe 1994 M reg starting problems - Co2-UK

I have actually managed to find another 1992 model just down the road from me. Old chap has keep it covered up in a barn for years, what are the odds?

Volkswagen Polo - MK2F Polo Parade Coupe 1994 M reg starting problems - Co2-UK

Don't waste your money on a new Hall Sensor. That will not be the problem. It'll either work or it won't. Simple as that.

For an engine to run five things are needed.

1. Good supply of clean air.

2. Good supply of fuel

3. Good compression.

4. Good HT spark at the right time.

5. A clear exhaust.

I would suggest you concentrate next on number 5. A vacuum gauge will diagnose a blocked exhaust as well as vacuum leaks, incorrect timing, valve problems and more. Or you could drop the front pipe and run the engine to see if it improves. be mindful of upsetting your neighbours though.

If anything I would probably just get a new distributor from GSF and fit that. I have seen decent tutorials on fitting a new hall sensor but I'd rather just get a whole new unit.

Volkswagen Polo - MK2F Polo Parade Coupe 1994 M reg starting problems - Railroad.

The Hall Sensor is very simple to test. It simply switches on and off, nothing more. As I said, it'll either work or it won't. There won't be any in between with it.

Volkswagen Polo - MK2F Polo Parade Coupe 1994 M reg starting problems - Co2-UK

The Hall Sensor is very simple to test. It simply switches on and off, nothing more. As I said, it'll either work or it won't. There won't be any in between with it.

Good to know.

I've now replaced the blue coolant temperature sensor but it's still the same.

The other one I've just bought is a 1992 coupe with same engine code although that one won't start either but it has been sat in a barn for 10 years so who knows.

Volkswagen Polo - MK2F Polo Parade Coupe 1994 M reg starting problems - Co2-UK

Another update: the 1992 polo is now working and sounds good. Does anyone know what coolant goes in the polos of this age. I've always used blue for the current one but websites are saying maybe red?

Volkswagen Polo - MK2F Polo Parade Coupe 1994 M reg starting problems - Railroad.

Another update: the 1992 polo is now working and sounds good. Does anyone know what coolant goes in the polos of this age. I've always used blue for the current one but websites are saying maybe red?

The coolant temp sensor will make a difference, but not a huge difference. It's a thermo-resistor known as a Negative Temperature Coefficient (NTC) which measures around 3k ohms when the engine is cold, to about 300 ohms when it's hot. A failed sensor will be telling the ECM the engine it's hotter or colder than it actually is, which will affect engine starting and running but not hugely. Based on your description of the seriousness of the effect of the fault I'd say you're barking up the wrong tree.

Volkswagen Polo - MK2F Polo Parade Coupe 1994 M reg starting problems - Co2-UK

Another update: the 1992 polo is now working and sounds good. Does anyone know what coolant goes in the polos of this age. I've always used blue for the current one but websites are saying maybe red?

The coolant temp sensor will make a difference, but not a huge difference. It's a thermo-resistor known as a Negative Temperature Coefficient (NTC) which measures around 3k ohms when the engine is cold, to about 300 ohms when it's hot. A failed sensor will be telling the ECM the engine it's hotter or colder than it actually is, which will affect engine starting and running but not hugely. Based on your description of the seriousness of the effect of the fault I'd say you're barking up the wrong tree.

Coolant temp sensor changed and it didn't change anything. I didn't really think it would but it was only a few quid and it's done now.

Volkswagen Polo - MK2F Polo Parade Coupe 1994 M reg starting problems - Railroad.

It's very easy to play parts darts on a vehicle with a problem such as this, but you need to do some simple checks to make a diagnosis. Based on what you tell us the engine will not currently start.

1. Do you have a good spark at the coil to distributor HT lead when cranking the engine? If you have then the ignition coil, module, hall sensor and wiring are all good. If there is no spark then pull off the three pin plug off the distributor body and flash the centre terminal '0' to ground with the ignition on. This should trigger a spark. If it does then the coil and module are working. If it doesn't then suspect one of them. Do you have a 12v supply to the coil and module with the ignition on? If not check back to the ignition switch to find out why. If you have then check to see if the coil is switching when cranking the engine. If it is switching and you still have no spark then suspect the coil. If it's not switching suspect the module.

2. Does the fuel injector switch when you crank the engine? If it doesn't and the coil doesn't switch either then suspect the hall sensor. Be mindful that if you have a factory fitted immobiliser this will sit between the hall sensor and the ignition module. The hall sensor switches the ECM, which in turn switches the ignition module and fuel injector. If the hall sensor has gone down you will have no ignition module or fuel injector switching. The symptom of a failed immobiliser is the engine will start and run for one second, and then cut out because you will have no spark and no fuel injection. Probe the '0' terminal on the hall sensor with the black lead of your voltmeter on earth and crank the engine. The voltmeter should show 0v and 12v as it switches on and off. More accurately the display will sit somewhere in between because it cannot react quick enough to the back and forth voltage change. But you will prove whether the hall sensor is working or not.

3. As I said before, check for a blocked exhaust. My money is on this is where your problem lies. If the engine cannot properly exhale it won't be able to inhale. Simple as that.

Volkswagen Polo - MK2F Polo Parade Coupe 1994 M reg starting problems - Co2-UK

Many thanks for all the info. The car does start but then dies a few seconds after. The first time you try it after a while it runs for longer but does end up dying.

I'll try and get an updated video of what happens upon starting, meanwhile I will run some tests.

Volkswagen Polo - MK2F Polo Parade Coupe 1994 M reg starting problems - Railroad.

Once again check for a blocked exhaust. The symptoms sound like a perfect example of it. If you have a vacuum gauge connect it to the inlet manifold. Look on YouTube how to use it and what to look for. There are plenty of tutorials. A vacuum gauge will tell you a lot about the mechanical state of the engine.

Volkswagen Polo - MK2F Polo Parade Coupe 1994 M reg starting problems - elekie&a/c doctor
Couple of items you may want to check . Do you have the facility to check fuel pressure? Should be around 1 bar. Easy way to check for blocked exhaust, is to remove the lambda sensor . It will make a load of noise , but will prove a point .
Volkswagen Polo - MK2F Polo Parade Coupe 1994 M reg starting problems - Co2-UK
Couple of items you may want to check . Do you have the facility to check fuel pressure? Should be around 1 bar. Easy way to check for blocked exhaust, is to remove the lambda sensor . It will make a load of noise , but will prove a point .

I'm sorry but I don't have the facility to check fuel pressure, neither do I have a vacuum gauge.

Volkswagen Polo - MK2F Polo Parade Coupe 1994 M reg starting problems - Co2-UK

Is the removal of the lambda sensor a guaranteed way of seeing if the exhaust is blocked. Is it possible it could be blocked before the sensor?

Volkswagen Polo - MK2F Polo Parade Coupe 1994 M reg starting problems - Railroad.

Is the removal of the lambda sensor a guaranteed way of seeing if the exhaust is blocked. Is it possible it could be blocked before the sensor?

Unlikely, but a blocked catalyst or rear silencer is very likely. Drop the front pipe and run the engine. Be aware it will be loud, so you may annoy your neighbours. But if the engine runs properly you'll know you've found the problem. If it makes no difference then the fault is elsewhere, but at least you'll know.

Volkswagen Polo - MK2F Polo Parade Coupe 1994 M reg starting problems - Railroad.

Another thing. Is the air filter clean and dry? And what do the spark plugs look like? If they're black and sooty that could be a good indication of either too little air or a blocked exhaust.

Volkswagen Polo - MK2F Polo Parade Coupe 1994 M reg starting problems - Co2-UK

Air filter is dirty but dry. Although the air box and filter isn't on the car at the moment.

Volkswagen Polo - MK2F Polo Parade Coupe 1994 M reg starting problems - Railroad.

Air filter is dirty but dry. Although the air box and filter isn't on the car at the moment.

That's ok, as long as the engine is not prevented from drawing air. As I've said a blocked exhaust is now the most likely problem based on what you've told us. And even more likely since you said it runs the longest the first time you start it.

Run the engine then go to the back of the car and feel the exhaust gasses coming out. Does it sound hissy, or feel clearly restricted? Put your foot over the end of the tailpipe and get a feel for it, but best of all drop the front pipe and run the engine.

Volkswagen Polo - MK2F Polo Parade Coupe 1994 M reg starting problems - Co2-UK

Took the lambda sensor off, reconnected it (wiring) and it started and ran okay.

Volkswagen Polo - MK2F Polo Parade Coupe 1994 M reg starting problems - Co2-UK

Took the lambda sensor off, reconnected it (wiring) and it started and ran okay.

Here is an updated video of it running and pictures showing the condition of the sensor. Looks very dirty to me. So I think we've cracked it *fingers crossed*.

imgur.com/gallery/9X3svjK

Volkswagen Polo - MK2F Polo Parade Coupe 1994 M reg starting problems - Railroad.

So the exhaust is blocked. Now you just need to identify exactly where, but it's more likely than not it's the catalyst that will need replacing. Could be the rear silencer too though.

Volkswagen Polo - MK2F Polo Parade Coupe 1994 M reg starting problems - Co2-UK

Any recommendations on how to clean up the lambda sensor while it's off the vehicle?

Volkswagen Polo - MK2F Polo Parade Coupe 1994 M reg starting problems - elekie&a/c doctor
Why do you want to clean it ? Looks ok to me .
Volkswagen Polo - MK2F Polo Parade Coupe 1994 M reg starting problems - Co2-UK
Why do you want to clean it ? Looks ok to me .

Just thought it might be worth a go while it's off the car.

Volkswagen Polo - MK2F Polo Parade Coupe 1994 M reg starting problems - Railroad.

Any recommendations on how to clean up the lambda sensor while it's off the vehicle?

I wouldn't even bother. It's highly recommended that if you have to replace the catalyst you should also replace the lambda sensor with it.

Volkswagen Polo - MK2F Polo Parade Coupe 1994 M reg starting problems - Co2-UK

Took the backbox off and kept the lambda sensor in and connected and it seems to be working okay.

Possible backbox blocked only?

Volkswagen Polo - MK2F Polo Parade Coupe 1994 M reg starting problems - Co2-UK

Nope scratch that, still doing the same. It's running, idling fine but it seems to lose power when heavy throttling.

Volkswagen Polo - MK2F Polo Parade Coupe 1994 M reg starting problems - Co2-UK

Took the centre pipe off with just the cat and lambda sensor attached and it seemed to run okay. Spat out a load of the cat internals onto the floor, so that's definitely knackered.

Edited by Co2-UK on 22/03/2020 at 13:20

Volkswagen Polo - MK2F Polo Parade Coupe 1994 M reg starting problems - Co2-UK

Cleared out the centre pipe and backbox and refitted them and car seems to be working okay. Drove it to work this morning (about 17 miles) and didn't seem to have any issues.

The only thing is the idle revs seem to be quite high once the engine gets warm / up to running temp.

Volkswagen Polo - MK2F Polo Parade Coupe 1994 M reg starting problems - Railroad.

It'll take a bit of time for the ECM to re-learn new values after it' been running with a blocked exhaust for however long. Assuming you have no vacuum leaks or anything else wrong I'd drive it for a couple of hundred miles and see it if settles down, which it may well do. If after that time it still idles higher than it should then remove the idle speed stepper motor and clean it.

Volkswagen Polo - MK2F Polo Parade Coupe 1994 M reg starting problems - Co2-UK

It'll take a bit of time for the ECM to re-learn new values after it' been running with a blocked exhaust for however long. Assuming you have no vacuum leaks or anything else wrong I'd drive it for a couple of hundred miles and see it if settles down, which it may well do. If after that time it still idles higher than it should then remove the idle speed stepper motor and clean it.

That's what I've heard.

I reconnected the battery after leaving it disconnected for a little bit as I here that will reset the ECM back to default values and it'll relearn things in due time.

Still need to replace a couple of breather pipes (thick one coming out the back of the block and skinny one that comes off the top.

Weirdly on the way to work this morning my wipers stopped working. Checked the fuse and it's broken. Replaced with another fuse and yet the wipers still don't work. If you wiggle the stalk between off and on (speed 1) they try to move a little but not quite.

On another note: THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR HELP, ESPECIALLY RAILROAD!

Volkswagen Polo - MK2F Polo Parade Coupe 1994 M reg starting problems - Co2-UK

Higher revs at idle after running for a short while but apart from that the car is running as well as ever.

Sorted the wiper issue too so it's all good.

Volkswagen Polo - MK2F Polo Parade Coupe 1994 M reg starting problems - elekie&a/c doctor

These use an external electronic idle controller that incorporates an idle switch. This unit may be faulty. If I recall, the idle speed can be adjusted electronically, but you need diagnostic kit to do it.

Volkswagen Polo - MK2F Polo Parade Coupe 1994 M reg starting problems - Co2-UK

No update as of right now for obvious reasons. Car still working as usual though.

Volkswagen Polo - MK2F Polo Parade Coupe 1994 M reg starting problems - Co2-UK

Long time, no speak.

Car has been working fine... until today when I got the same problem as stated above.

Loss of power and rough idle. Took the sensor off and car was working better but not perfect.

Now the car won't start. Sensor still connected (wiring) but not in the exhaust.

What?

Volkswagen Polo - MK2F Polo Parade Coupe 1994 M reg starting problems - Co2-UK

Anyone got any ideas, sorry to be a pain.

Volkswagen Polo - MK2F Polo Parade Coupe 1994 M reg starting problems - elekie&a/c doctor
Guess it’s back to basic checks. Do you have spark at the coil main lead and spark plugs ? Fuel to the injection unit , is the injector pulsing and delivering fuel ?
Volkswagen Polo - MK2F Polo Parade Coupe 1994 M reg starting problems - Co2-UK

Yep, going to follow the checks previously stated. Will report back.

Volkswagen Polo - MK2F Polo Parade Coupe 1994 M reg starting problems - Co2-UK

Took the lambda sensor off (still connected) and the car won't even start. It turns over but nothing else.

Tried the lambda sensor off this one on my other one and that starts up and runs.

When I had this prob before, removing the sensor would at least get things moving (although roughly) but this time nothing.

Will try the other forementioned checks when I can.

Volkswagen Polo - MK2F Polo Parade Coupe 1994 M reg starting problems - elekie&a/c doctor
Lambda sensor has nothing to do with engine starting . You can disconnect it leave it in the kitchen.
Volkswagen Polo - MK2F Polo Parade Coupe 1994 M reg starting problems - Co2-UK

Update:

Car is running again. The rotor arm had snapped off and smashed to pieces inside the dizzy cap.

Oh the joys of old cars. Thank you for your time and help.

Volkswagen Polo - MK2F Polo Parade Coupe 1994 M reg starting problems - Co2-UK

Another problem. Cranks over but doesn't like to start. When it does it runs rough and cuts out if you let it idle (eventually). Lack of power. Will let you know more as I know.

Volkswagen Polo - MK2F Polo Parade Coupe 1994 M reg starting problems - Co2-UK

Took the spark plugs out and the 2nd from the belt end is covered in oil. Cleaned up and all sparking fine but as soon as you run it again the oil returns.

Volkswagen Polo - MK2F Polo Parade Coupe 1994 M reg starting problems - galileo

Took the spark plugs out and the 2nd from the belt end is covered in oil. Cleaned up and all sparking fine but as soon as you run it again the oil returns.

Valve stem oil seals? Or piston/ring wear?

Edited by galileo on 25/03/2021 at 16:23

Volkswagen Polo - MK2F Polo Parade Coupe 1994 M reg starting problems - Co2-UK

Long story short: HEAD GASKET had gone. Took head off, got it cleaned up, skimmed and refitted with new head gasket kit (including valve stem seals) and new head bolts.

Seems to be working fine now. Will try to let you know more as I drive.

Here's some pics:

MK2F Polo

imgur.com/gallery/NzK6CF2