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I've had my 225xe plug-in hybrid for nearly 3 years. It gets full charged to 100% virtually every night (usually from somewhere around 40% to 60% charge), so that's over 1000 charge cycles in my ownership.
There's been no discernible loss of range or battery performance. I believe the batteries do have a finite life in terms of charge / discharge cycles, but what that lifespan is, and what the best practice is in terms of charging, will vary from manufacturer to manufacturer and will also depend on the specific chemistry of the battery.
The cars also have fairly sophisticated electronic controllers to manage and distribute the charge consistently across all the cells in the battery pack, which will have an impact.
Unfortunately, the car goes back in a couple of months so I can't report on true long-term usage.
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.... the car goes back in a couple of months so I can't report on true long-term usage.
Useful info, Craig. I guess enough EVs haven't been running for long enough yet for the typical battery life to be known.
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Craig would you have altered you charging method had the car been bought for long term ownership? just wondering not criticising as i would have done exactly the same, but if bought long term or used would maybe try to charge every other or every third night to minimise the cycles.
When we think of the lifespan of Toyota Hybrid batteries maybe i'm asking a non question, because far as i know hybrids are constantly charging ans discharging batteries as they drive along, and they don't appear to be suffering to any great extent, so is this a non issue or are Toyota batteries designed with this in mind?
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Yet another reason for getting rid of a vehicle just before the battery wears out .... not just the warranty ....
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Craig would you have altered you charging method had the car been bought for long term ownership? just wondering not criticising as i would have done exactly the same, but if bought long term or used would maybe try to charge every other or every third night to minimise the cycles.
When we think of the lifespan of Toyota Hybrid batteries maybe i'm asking a non question, because far as i know hybrids are constantly charging ans discharging batteries as they drive along, and they don't appear to be suffering to any great extent, so is this a non issue or are Toyota batteries designed with this in mind?
Maybe this will help.....www.caranddriver.com/news/a15345397/battery-taxono.../
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Interesting Bolt, but it doesn't really explain if or why a hybrid battery should last long than a pure EV, of indeed it does, but i'm not exactly at physics master level so might well be missing the point intirely.
I'm thinkin of hybrids like the GS450h,where the battery could provide something like the equivalent torque of the engine again for accleration, though this obviously only for short bursts, where the EV has to provide this power continually, so maybe hybrid batteries get an easier life overall, but still doesn't explain (to me at least) how they can manage a longer useful life...though of course the hybrid doesn't need full battery capacity to keep going, it simply uses more petrol engine power instead so the pure EV battery failing is more immediately obvious.
ps sorry about some of the typos, PC is being replaced so i'm on a laptop currently (no thread pun intended) and can't get on with the keyboard.
Edited by gordonbennet on 13/03/2020 at 10:35
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Interesting Bolt, but it doesn't really explain if or why a hybrid battery should last long than a pure EV, of indeed it does, but i'm not exactly at physics master level so might well be missing the point intirely.
I'm thinkin of hybrids like the GS450h,where the battery could provide something like the equivalent torque of the engine again for accleration, though this obviously only for short bursts, where the EV has to provide this power continually, so maybe hybrid batteries get an easier life overall, but still doesn't explain (to me at least) how they can manage a longer useful life...though of course the hybrid doesn't need full battery capacity to keep going, it simply uses more petrol engine power instead so the pure EV battery failing is more immediately obvious.
ps sorry about some of the typos, PC is being replaced so i'm on a laptop currently (no thread pun intended) and can't get on with the keyboard.
Ev connections between cells are the cause of the problem as each time an EV battery is charged, irrc a dendrite I could be wrong on the spelling, but they are made during charging and reduce the ability of the battery to accept another charge over time
this happens slowly but due to the makeup of the connection they build up and destroy the cell connection, these connections are being experimented with to make one that can reduce charge time along with higher capacity cells
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this happens slowly but due to the makeup of the connection they build up and destroy the cell connection, these connections are being experimented with to make one that can reduce charge time along with higher capacity cells
Thanks, that explains why the number of recharge cycles is paramount, at present.
This should be pointed out to EV buyers at dealerships because it is a real issue, but more so for those buying used or keeping longterm, from the back of fag packet charging small amounts too often could take years from an EV battery set up.
Would a main dealer be able to read the ECU to tell how many recharge cycles a car has already been through, if so this could be a more important number than mileage on a used EV.
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this happens slowly but due to the makeup of the connection they build up and destroy the cell connection, these connections are being experimented with to make one that can reduce charge time along with higher capacity cells
Thanks, that explains why the number of recharge cycles is paramount, at present.
This should be pointed out to EV buyers at dealerships because it is a real issue, but more so for those buying used or keeping longterm, from the back of fag packet charging small amounts too often could take years from an EV battery set up.
Would a main dealer be able to read the ECU to tell how many recharge cycles a car has already been through, if so this could be a more important number than mileage on a used EV.
Im not so sure they fully understand how this works, reason why so much research is going on, but did read that some are looking into a fluid connection between cells to increase charging rate up to 20 times without degradation of the cells connections
I think Tesla are improving battery tech as they now have there own factories to research in, and Panasonics assistance iirc?
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When we think of the lifespan of Toyota Hybrid batteries maybe i'm asking a non question, because far as i know hybrids are constantly charging ans discharging batteries as they drive along, and they don't appear to be suffering to any great extent, so is this a non issue or are Toyota batteries designed with this in mind?
Also, there was that tale doing the rounds a year or two ago about the Nissan Leaf taxi down in Corwall (or thereabouts) which had done over 100k miles with no, or very little battery degredation. That, being a taxi, and with the type of journeys it would have been doing, surely must have been 'on charge' a huge amount of times getting 'topped up'?.
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I would like to know the costings of that Leaf taxi BBD, and what difference to the end figure would be once fuel or road pricing taxes get added to EV charging, on the face of it i imagine it paid the investment back very well, also be interesting to know what failures the car suffered in that time.
Edited by gordonbennet on 13/03/2020 at 11:12
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Re the need to never let them go completely flat, iPads are the same albeit on a smaller scale. So, when iPad cuts off at an apparent 0% there is actually some residual charge left to ensure the battery is not flat below a recoverable level.
Having said that you don't want to leave it too long in that state as it will eventually go beyond the point of no return.
I assume EVs have something similar.
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Having said that you don't want to leave it too long in that state as it will eventually go beyond the point of no return. I assume EVs have something similar.
That's the bit that would worry me Catsdad, its one thing forking out £100 when your CTEC does what mine did and conk out unbeknown to thereby ruining an almost new Varta, another level of worry when its ££££ at risk for simply running out of fuel as it were, imagine being stuck in a blizzard, perish the thought...hoho?
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Craig would you have altered you charging method had the car been bought for long term ownership? just wondering not criticising as i would have done exactly the same, but if bought long term or used would maybe try to charge every other or every third night to minimise the cycles.
No , I would use the same charging cycle. Largely because the 225 has a relatively limited range (12 to 16 miles), so I like to have a full charge available.
As mentioned, the car has fairly sophisticated electronics to manage the charging, and the entire battery pack, DC converter etc are all watercooled to ensure optimum efficiency.
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No , I would use the same charging cycle. Largely because the 225 has a relatively limited range (12 to 16 miles), so I like to have a full charge available.
seems fair enough, for some reason i was under the impression a higher pure electric range was available.
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