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Daihatsu Skywing - Assymetric flow in the braking system - edlithgow

Using a syringe to flush and bleed the rear brakes, it'll suck OK but it blows very slowly,

Stripped and cleaned both wheel cylinders. They weren't bad, and it didn't make much difference.

Connecting syringe directly to the brake pipe going forward gives fast bi-directional flow, so its apparently a property of the rear.

I'm thinking either debris or a collapsing hose is acting as a non-return valve,

Don't THINK I've got a proportioning valve thingy (or if I have I dunno where it is).

I also don't THINK it behaved like this before, but its a while since I did this so I suppose I might have forgotten.

Daihatsu Skywing - Assymetric flow in the braking system - John F

Why are you doing this? What was wrong? If brakes not working well could be an old hose expanding (not contracting) under pressure.

Daihatsu Skywing - Assymetric flow in the braking system - edlithgow

Why are you doing this? What was wrong? If brakes not working well could be an old hose expanding (not contracting) under pressure.

There has to be something wrong to flush brakes?

Actually, there was. Overheating of passenger side front, , which I think is probably bearing failure but i stripped the caliper and added supplementary piston retraction (bike inner tube) to reduce the chance of brake drag..

Now I'm flushing the system with a syringe to get air out, and it'll only suck at the rear bleeder, not blow.. A ballooning hose woulldn't cause this, but an internally collapsing hose might, just.

Actually I could do with some pipe cleaners to poke into the brake lines, but I;ve never seen anyone smoking a pipe here in Taiwan so they probably dont exist, Add them to the long list of automotive unobtainables.

Never occured to me before, Bit of wire would probably do though.

.

Daihatsu Skywing - Assymetric flow in the braking system - Bolt

but an internally collapsing hose might, just.

they act as one way valves and will make it difficult to get fluid flowing back or to calliper piston depending on how the inside is damaged!

so its not a Just, they do

Daihatsu Skywing - Assymetric flow in the braking system - edlithgow

but an internally collapsing hose might, just.

they act as one way valves and will make it difficult to get fluid flowing back or to calliper piston depending on how the inside is damaged!

so its not a Just, they do

Heard of this but never experienced it (before?).

Think I kept the old front hoses when I fitted replacements a few years ago. That'll be longer but might do for a test if I can put a loop in it.

I'll have a look tomorrow.

Edited by edlithgow on 22/02/2020 at 16:19

Daihatsu Skywing - Assymetric flow in the braking system - thunderbird

A few years ago after reading in a motoring magazine about the vacuum brake bleeders which made the job a one man affair with little mess I bought one, not cheap but if it makes life easier well worth it.

What a waste of money. After an hour of pumping all I had was a dribble of fluid in the jar and a very sore hand. (interesting to note that in the supplied literature you could buy a dick extending attachment - but how sore would that make your hand).

So I went back to the Gunsuns device that used air pressure form a spare tyre. One person again and did the job in minutes. Just have to be careful you tighten the cap on the master cylinder to avoid leaks.

Blowing the fluid through has always worked for me (Gunsuns or pedal) but never sucking.

Sent the other device back for a refund.

Daihatsu Skywing - Assymetric flow in the braking system - edlithgow

A few years ago after reading in a motoring magazine about the vacuum brake bleeders which made the job a one man affair with little mess I bought one, not cheap but if it makes life easier well worth it.

What a waste of money. After an hour of pumping all I had was a dribble of fluid in the jar and a very sore hand. (interesting to note that in the supplied literature you could buy a dick extending attachment - but how sore would that make your hand).

So I went back to the Gunsuns device that used air pressure form a spare tyre. One person again and did the job in minutes. Just have to be careful you tighten the cap on the master cylinder to avoid leaks.

Blowing the fluid through has always worked for me (Gunsuns or pedal) but never sucking.

Sent the other device back for a refund.

Syringe has worked well for me up till now. Costs about a quid.

You can cycle the fluid both ways. Blowing from the bleed nipple, you are pushing the fluid the same way the bubbles tend to go (upward) which probably helps, and you have complete one-man control

Its sometimes claimed there is a risk of master cylinder seal damage, but so far, so so..

I dunno about ABS though. I've only used it on this car.

Daihatsu Skywing - Assymetric flow in the braking system - edlithgow

Turns out I bought a rear hose when I replaced the fronts, but never fitted it, because I was unconvinced that a hose that had been internally open to Taiwans atmosphere on the shelf since 1997 was necessarily a better bet than one that had been on the car since 1986 (which looked OK),

Plus there is always the chance of sheering off long undisturbed fittings.

Needs must when the deil drives though, but breakfast first.

Daihatsu Skywing - Assymetric flow in the braking system - edlithgow

Changing the hose seems to have restored bi-directional syringeing

Hussah!.

And knock me dahn wiv a fevva!

Those hose clips are a REAL PITA though.

Is there a trick?

This (standard?) type has a wee laterally springy C-circlip, and a longitudanally springy U clip, which sandwich the bracket.

VERY tight.

Hammering an awkwardly placed bit of spring steel on a weak bracket under a car.

What could possibly go wrong?

Edited by edlithgow on 23/02/2020 at 04:41

Daihatsu Skywing - Assymetric flow in the braking system - Bolt

Changing the hose seems to have restored bi-directional syringeing

Hussah!.

And knock me dahn wiv a fevva!

Those hose clips are a REAL PITA though.

Is there a trick?

This (standard?) type has a wee laterally springy C-circlip, and a longitudanally springy U clip, which sandwich the bracket.

VERY tight.

Hammering an awkwardly placed bit of spring steel on a weak bracket under a car.

What could possibly go wrong?

Yes they could be challenging, and the spring clips used to break especially if it was freezing cold in our UK climate. got a few cuts doing them years ago, whats known as the fun of working on cars lol

Daihatsu Skywing - Assymetric flow in the braking system - edlithgow

When the second clip pinged off into the bushes (I only managed to fit the first one upside down) I was about ready to give up and use a rope grommet (Just read "The Way of A Ship" so was in an Arrh Jim Lad mood).

But I found it.

Inside an empty African Snail shell.

An improvement on the usual drain grating.

Daihatsu Skywing - Assymetric flow in the braking system - John F

Why are you doing this? What was wrong? If brakes not working well could be an old hose expanding (not contracting) under pressure.

There has to be something wrong to flush brakes?

For me, yes.

Actually, there was. Overheating of passenger side front, , which I think is probably bearing failure

Isn't brake binding due to sticking pistons more likely to be the cause of hot discs? I seem to remember using brasso to clean the pistons and cylinder walls.

but i stripped the caliper and added supplementary piston retraction (bike inner tube) to reduce the chance of brake drag..

The mind boggles! Where did you put it? Between the piston and pad? Surely that would make the brakes feel spongy?

Daihatsu Skywing - Assymetric flow in the braking system - edlithgow

Why are you doing this? What was wrong? If brakes not working well could be an old hose expanding (not contracting) under pressure.

There has to be something wrong to flush brakes?

For me, yes.

Actually, there was. Overheating of passenger side front, , which I think is probably bearing failure

Isn't brake binding due to sticking pistons more likely to be the cause of hot discs? I seem to remember using brasso to clean the pistons and cylinder walls.

but i stripped the caliper and added supplementary piston retraction (bike inner tube) to reduce the chance of brake drag..

The mind boggles! Where did you put it? Between the piston and pad? Surely that would make the brakes feel spongy?

I didn't use to change brake fluid regularly, but then I had a brake failure due to boiling brake fluid, so now I do. Almost crashing is a consciousness raiser..

This time I'm doing the brakes to try and minimise their contribution to the heating,(and because its a while since I did them) but there was still a slight excess temperature rise on that side motored in second gear with the brakes removed, which, along with some runout, is consistent with bearing failure.

This'll likely be terminal given lack of spares and horrible captive rotor design

Rubber return spring/dust boot supplement is experimental. Havn't test driven it yet. Not sure it matters if the brakes feel spongy as long as they work, but there are other snags like marginal temperature range and the fact the Mk1 doesn't cover the whole piston. There may be a MkII (silicon or nitrile, different geometry) if we are spared.

Daihatsu Skywing - Assymetric flow in the braking system - gordonbennet

You have rear drum brakes and nothing wrong with that design at all, the vast majority of cars would have perfectly adequate brakes with drum rears (and a good trouble free parking brake), but they don't look cool enough for many buyers.

I'm of the pressure or pumping the brake pedal to bleed mindset, and i have had issues getting a firm pedal on a series Landrover many decades ago (before i invested in a pressure bleeder), basically as i pressed the pedal with just the one slave cyl open inevitably that slave cyl as well as others would move slightly, not only not allowing good air expulsion from the cyl being bled but also allowing any air in the rest of the system to move around, tried for hours putting pints of fluid through, not a hope of getting a good bleed.

Tried adjusting the shoes fully up, hoping that would push the slaves together, but even that wouldn't do the trick, so i removed the drums and clamped the slaves together with G clamps, if you don't even enough you could wire the slaves tightly shut, after doing this bleeding was a doddle and i had a solid firm pedal minutes later.

This might be an idea for you in this case.

Daihatsu Skywing - Assymetric flow in the braking system - edlithgow

Thanks

If I understand you correctly, you addressed a bleeding problem on an early Landrover by reducing the free volume in the slave cylinders. That makes sense, since there will be less space for air storage

Always fancied an early Landrover. Maybe when I'm back in The Yook I'll indulge my masochism with one, though living in a city centre isnt a good excuse.

However, I dont normally have a bleeding problem with this car, The syringe method works extremely well with it even with a drained-dry system.

In particular, since you can cycle the fluid in-and-out, "pints of fluid" aren't required, though of course you'll want to renew it.

One snag with the "suck" part of the cycle is that air can be pulled in via the bleeder threads. The air isn't itself a problem, since it rises into the syringe and you can easily avoid blowing it back in, but it makes it harder to tell when you've finished,

It can be reduced with PTFE thread tape, which also reduces the chance of your bleeder screw rusting solid.

Sort-of related to your procedure, IRC I once put a cable tie tight around a wheel cylinder and then applied brake pedal pressure overnight (with bungee cord and stick, I think) since I suspected it of leaking.