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Thank you so much for the responses. It's really helpful and I'm glad I asked because I did like the look of the b class with a few petrol models below 5k, but if it has a bad reputation and will be a money pit then will avoid as per your advice. Will avoid the risk of back street dealers as you say, and diesels.
I will look at C Max 1.6 (hopefully can find a titanium but there are lesser trims for the 5k mark). That definitely looks like the preferred option.
Honda Civic I hadn't considered, so will need to sit in one and see. Certainly would be open to that and I'll try to find one to assess space/size for someone over 6 ft, along with 2 car seats in the back and some luggage. I guess that can be my second choice.
Don't like the car too big which put me off the Mazda 6. I prefer height to length, but the blue one from Arnold Clark I had see before and am considering, so I'm glad you also posted it. I will also need to sit in one as I saw one on the street and it felt long and saloon-y
My worry about a meriva is the reliability which online was very up and down in reviews. Also boot space was smaller (it seemed similar in size to a B Max which I ruled out for C Max). 7 seaters I prefer to avoid.
Whilst I mentioned my budget is 4-6 K, I suppose looking at prices, I'd rather look at 5k, and then if there's a similar model for a bit more value (e.g. higher trim, newer, less mileage) then I can bump up whilst still being below 6k.
I'm looking at purchasing cash with savings, and prefer to avoid adding a monthly bill.
do Arnold clark negotiate? Even a couple of hundred, or some kind of maintenance or warranty thrown in?
Thanks again and I will try to assess similar ads to yours as well. I am hoping things will pop up in the next couple of days.
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“ do Arnold clark negotiate? Even a couple of hundred, or some kind of maintenance or warranty thrown in?”
Not really, at best it’ll be a token gesture and there’s no warranty beyond 28 days unless you buy one, often i’ve found cars at other main dealers which initially are dearer but after negotiation and the fact that they come with a free warranty Arnold Clark can be substantially dearer. They’re also poor at preparing cars for sale but at least you get to see them warts and all. I prefer buying privately but you do lose any legal protection. There’s a nice Toyota Auris estate nearby in a private sale. These really don’t go wrong but the 1.33 motor will be slow. Has to be worth £6k all day, might even get it for less.
I just found a great car on Auto Trader:
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/20200127660...1
Edited by SLO76 on 05/02/2020 at 14:24
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Thanks this does look pretty good, although it is at the upper end of my budget, for that I'd need some of the legal protections as you say!
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“ I will look at C Max 1.6 (hopefully can find a titanium but there are lesser trims for the 5k mark). That definitely looks like the preferred option.”
Good cars but often bought as an appliance by people who don’t care about cars, mostly on a PCP or lease so they never own it nor do they look after it. This is a common issue on modern cars but I find MPV’s often the worst, many are abused on motability too so check the service history is complete and look thoroughly at the bodywork for cheap poor quality paint repairs.
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Also I would probably avoid Brysons. They have amazing reviews but I actually looked at a car a couple of weeks back and found the salesman terrible. Perhaps I caught him on a bad day.
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Also I would probably avoid Brysons. They have amazing reviews but I actually looked at a car a couple of weeks back and found the salesman terrible. Perhaps I caught him on a bad day.
Probably did. They have a good reputation and buy in good stock plus much of it comes as part-ex. They do charge strong money but will negotiate a bit.
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My worry about a meriva is the reliability which online was very up and down in reviews. Also boot space was smaller (it seemed similar in size to a B Max which I ruled out for C Max).
Meriva reliability is fine as long as stick to the right engines. The 1.4 turbo is going to be the best bet if you want petrol as the Meriva is pretty porky. I think the n/a 1.4 would be hard work. As for diesel, the 1.7 is an Isuzu engine and is pretty much bulletproof whereas the 1.6 is from Fiat and not nearly as reliable. Re the boot space, the C-Max has only 8% more volume than a Meriva so probably fair to say that if the boot in the Meriva is to small, so is that of the C-Max!. And bear in mind the rear seats in the Meriva slide fore and aft (individually) opening up the flexibility, and with the rear doors hinged from the rear, it will be easier to get the kiddies in than with 'normal' (front hinged) doors.
7 seaters I prefer to avoid.
No logic to this, as has been said, you don't really want or need to restrict yourself. A Vauxhall Zafira of the type in the ad SLO posted is less than 10cm longer than a C-Max so i doubt you'd notice any difference parking, and the Mazda 5 is only 10cm longer again.
As for other possible choices, the Honda FR-V is well worth a look if you can find one. Six seats (two rows of three) and that legendary reliability. Found this one in Dalkeith,
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/20200126658...1
Toyota Verso too, but can't find anything close on Autotrader.
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Hi there,
Thanks for the response, it's really helpful.
I'm not sure what you mean about 'porky'? Like heavy and needs more power?
I have checked some ads and meriva bootspace is showing at 397 litres for an ad I saw in autotrader. The C Max boot space is showing at 666 litres which is a massive difference. Where'd you get the 5% from because if that's the case I would definitely reconsider.
Even the Civic is showing 485 litres.
(note that I would always have one or two rear passengers so wouldn't fold the seats).
As for 7 seaters, or the FRV, I appreciate the recommendation but I will only ever have 2 adults and 2 children in it as a maximum and a fair chunk of the time I'll be going to clients on my own, so a 5 seater with good boot space is plenty.
To summarise, so far I've seen the C-Max you are looking at 2012 Zetec 1.6 at around the 5k mark, Titaniums at the 6k mark with medium mileage.
Civics would be in the 2010/2011 range with milage med-high mileage
One option that seems cheapish is Nissan note, with 1.6 petrols even with automatics of 2012 at around the 4500-5000 range. Although something tells me I'm missing something with these cars. Even they have 437 litres of boot space (although I'm hoping that's with seats back rather than forward).
Looks like things are being narrowed down now. How do I tell which dealers buy from auctions etc or 'backstreet dealers' as mentioned earlier? Arnold Clark is obviously a big name, and one car I actually saw there was getting the timing belt changed by them before selling it so that was encouraging I guess.
I never thought something like a used car would cause me this much stress lol.
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“ Looks like things are being narrowed down now. How do I tell which dealers buy from auctions etc or 'backstreet dealers' as mentioned earlier? Arnold Clark is obviously a big name, and one car I actually saw there was getting the timing belt changed by them before selling it so that was encouraging I guess.“
Nothing wrong with the first gen Note 1.4/1.6, it’s not very refined at speed but they’re good value and reliable but the later 1.2 3cyl models aren’t as robust and the CVT gearbox on some of these versions is very weak so avoid at all costs. The older torque converter box on the 1.6 is fine.
Dealers who buy in from auction will typically have mostly older stock. Ask yourself if there’s anything in their stock that this car could’ve been taken in part exchange against. If it’s mostly similar value or cheaper stock then it’ll have come from auction and every car there has a reason for being there. It means that whoever took in as a part-ex has deemed it unfit for retail. We only sent cars there that had issues which were too costly to fix right, even the bargain bucket stuff at a few hundred quid was sold from the lot. Mostly it’s paintwork issues which these guys cheaply cover up and often it missing histories which again they fabricate with a simple garage stamp. It all adds value and is easier to get away with than clicking today. The only stock that’s worthy at auction is sub 4yr old ex fleet metal and even the bulk of that is snapped up or retained by main dealers, the substandard stuff ends in open auctions. The occasional gem does appear though.
Arnold C can be hit and miss, it very much depends on the dealer principal and his attitude. Some scrimp for every penny, they won’t do anything to a car unless you pay for it, others won’t budge a penny on price but some are more friendly. I personally find that the firm has lost its way in recent years with sales staff constantly being hounded and deals being overlooked by a manager who then goes into a hard sell regarding add-ons and finance products that you don’t need. You don’t end up building a relationship with customer and seller alike, it’s all a bit more of a pain really. Don’t assume they’re going to be the cheapest with any final deal even if the initial price is substantially less. They don’t really negotiate and everything is an extra. Back in the day a warranty was standard and cheap insurance came from their own insurance company. Not now, everything costs.
Edited by SLO76 on 06/02/2020 at 00:40
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Pete if boot size is important an excellent source of accurate meaurements is on this site in the reviews section. There the C max is 471 litres.
You mention having a rear passenger but this doesn't stop you part folding the seats. In this respect the Civic has a big advantage with its "magic" seats. If you are not familiar with these take a look as they mean you can get quite large items alongside one or two rear passengers. Even if you don't flip the seats up or down there is useful storage space underneath them. That aside the boot is very large. Last summer we went 4 up in our Civic with luggage to the airport and got all the cases in the boot. At the far end we picked up an Octavia estate, which appears to be much larger, but it needed careful packing to take the same load.
Finally if you do pursue a Civic go for a 1.8 2012 onwards as this has a rear wiper and, to me, a better look as well as other mods under the skin. Budget wise it looks doable. To give an example, mine with fsh and 75k was traded in for £3.8k and sold on by an independent dealer for about £5.3k.
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Thanks catdad and SLO for your responses.
Tbh I have sat in and seen a c max and the space and boot was good which is why it's a contender. I will go see a civic by the weekend.
The 2012 civics are well into the high 5 if not 6k plus and I'm too anxious as a buyer to not budget for a repair in the first year. As such maybe I should look at the 5k and below category. I can go the finance route and increase my budget but I have the budget cash and I'd rather not think about overheads as at this age of vehicle getting a car a year newer will probably still have similar risk.
The best c maxes at that price are in the 2011 range for 1.6 zetec with the silly wind up rear windows. In the 50-60k mileage range and due to age probably needing a timing belt change so may go higher mileage to allow the price to include a repair (from research the ford belts will prob only be changed at 10yrs)
For civics there are a few examples below 5 but around 2010 and easily in the 70k+ mileage range with some around 100k. I am avoiding looking at 1.4 and the 1.8 sounds good just need to sit in it to assess comfort.
I'm not mega concerned about residual values at this price point. My expectations are low and any value a couple of years down the line is a bonus.
With all this in mind does this sound about right? Or is high mileage a big no-no. At my 7k miles max a year I would only add 21k if I even keep the car 3 years.
Edited by pete2000 on 06/02/2020 at 15:45
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Don't be too afraid of high mileages, especially if your own is going to be low. An 8-year-old car with 100k will probably run better than one with 10k, amassed by a clutch-slipping type driving to the shops. Try to get one with full service history.
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I'm not sure what you mean about 'porky'? Like heavy and needs more power?
What i mean by this is the Meriva is pretty heavy. That fact, in relation to the power and torque of the n/a 1.4 petrol, means it would struggle out of town. The extra power and more importantly torque of the 1.4 turbo, would make it much more pleasant to drive (probably more efficient too as you wouldn't be absolutely caning it all the time!).
I have checked some ads and meriva bootspace is showing at 397 litres for an ad I saw in autotrader. The C Max boot space is showing at 666 litres which is a massive difference. Where'd you get the 5% from because if that's the case I would definitely reconsider.
Re the boot space, for the 2010> C-Max, the original info i found said 432 litres, (though as catsdad mentions, on this website it is listed as 471 litres). The info i found on the Meriva said 400 litres (minimum*), ergo the C-Max has 8% (which is what i said, not 5%) more boot volume. *The 'minimum' here is important, as i said, the Meriva's rear seats slide fore and aft, also you can fold the centre section down and push the two outer seats closer together, plus further back making for limo-like legroom in the back. Point is though, if 400 litres is the 'minimum' boot space, with the rear seats in a 'normal' position, the capacity is almost certainly going to be more than the two figures listed for the C-Max (BTW, there is no way the C-max has 666 litres, even the Grand C-max with the rear two seats folded probably wouldn't have that). Either way, as an ex owner, i can confirm that the Meriva's boot is plenty big enough for most folk's requirements!.
As for 7 seaters, or the FRV, I appreciate the recommendation but I will only ever have 2 adults and 2 children in it as a maximum and a fair chunk of the time I'll be going to clients on my own, so a 5 seater with good boot space is plenty.
You are missing the point. You said yourself that your choice was limited due to your location (believe me, i understand being around 180 miles further North!) . It isn't about the extra seats, it is about the extra choice. There is no point ignoring a car which would suit your needs just fine, and is local, just because it has two more seats than you want. The rear seats can be folded out of the way to provide extra boot space, and it is neither going to cost any more to run, or be any harder to park. I can understand re the S-Max (which is a much bigger car), but not regarding a Zafira, Mazda 5 or the FR-V (which is actually nearly 10cm shorter than the C-max and has a boot capacity within 8% even assuming the boot space is 471 and not 432 litres).
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Thanks for the response, I understand your point better. I guess it all boils down to the reliability primarily for such an old car although not a meriva as budget allows for slightly newer but I'll have to see one opened up. I have sat in a C-Max and and it was spacious for me 6'3 and decent space behind me and a really nice boot. Meriva I haven't seen at a dealer to open up but will keep in mind. Btw I have checked the FRV advert and the others but when it comes to petrol cars those particular options are incredibly limited. Vauxhall's obviously more prevalent and I assume by how you're recommending them the Meriva/Zafira are reliable even at high age/mileage?? compared to C-max and Civic?
The other aspect is I'm not as experienced as you or others in the models and sizes, so if I am not refining my choices, I'l either have to rely on a salesman (who doesn't really care) or delay my purchase beyond this month due to getting lost in ads which is difficult for me personally as I need a car in Feb. This is why it's helpful to check forums :)
For C-Max and Honda it seems to have been narrowed down to an engine choice as well and rough age. If you feel the other cars would cause equal or less hassle in terms of maintenance then certainly will try to refine those choices too.
Cheers
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Thanks, I see cars in the family running on high mileages but they're usually diesels.
I assume on modern cars you can still expect capacity of say 150k on a petrol if serviced well? Not that I'll ever reach that.
Thanks for the tip about the low mileage. I imagine it is logical that a low use car is just as problematic as a high use car.
I will just add another option as I noticed the 1.8l 2009 Civics are around 4k with medium mileages rather than 2010's with higher ones, which I assume is the same engine?
Is there much in it with a 80-100 mileage 2010/2011 or a 60s mileage 2009?
Will definitely ensure service history is there. Cheers.
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How about the Toyota Verso as bbd mentioned. Probably the most reliable small MPV on the market. Can be had as 1.8 CVT, 1.6 manual petrol. I would have no worries about buying a higher mileage car with FSH.
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Hi, thanks for the suggestion.
Unfortunately nothing at present that's petrol and within budget that I can see online within 100 miles of me. Will keep in mind though as I visit some of the showrooms over the weekend.
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So I'm looking at the Honda Civics and I think the petrol 1.8 is pretty much worthwhile in going for.
A follow up question, having seen the economics of a used car thread (which panicked me a little) is that is there much difference in say a 2010 vehicle and a 2012, or a 2009 and a 2010 to justify the cost.
The 2009-2011 at various mileages I'm looking at 4500 (which keeps some money aside for any repairs and extended warranty). The 2012/2013 seems to be in the 6000 range.
Like intuitively from using cars in the past it feels like having an 8 year old car or a 10 year old car is still having an 'old' car with similar risk.
Also in the Honest John site there's an MOT pass rate figure, which shows Civics to be in the 60s, and a B-class for example to be much higher? Do I take this with a pinch of salt as it isn't an indicator of reliability?
Finally, we know about Arnold Clark. Does anyone have recommendations of other sellers (other than Bryson)?
I've seen cars advertised by places called Alistair Buchan, Peter Vardy and Edinburgh car store. Do they qualify as legit and not sellers of auction rejects? (reviews seem good).
Thanks again!
Edited by pete2000 on 09/02/2020 at 00:18
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The 2012 model Cvic is a better made, safer and more comfortable car than the previous model. Of course though buying an older used car is more down to condition and history than age and model but if all things were equal I’d spend a bit extra to get the newer model.
The best stock is at main dealers who’ve usually taken them in part exchange against a new model of the same brand which tells you plenty about how happy they were with the car you’re looking at. Anything that doesn’t meet a certain standard is offloaded to auction and lands at your typical dodgy Joe’s backstreet dealership and is then cheaply bodged up and often its history is faked to boost its value.
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Also in the Honest John site there's an MOT pass rate figure, which shows Civics to be in the 60s, and a B-class for example to be much higher? Do I take this with a pinch of salt as it isn't an indicator of reliability?
The MOT failure rate is rather subjective because the by mileage one does not state what age the cars are, and often Japanese car owners (aside from those used as taxis - unlikely a Civic) tend to do lower mileages than in general, meaning the car could be considerably older than ones from European makes, especially if they are diesels that have done a high mileage much earlier in life.
That being said, the B-Class may not fit that definition as much as other European cars. I also suspect that the MOT guide is generally far less useful indetermining reliability over the long term than looking at HJ's Good & Bad section for the reviews for each car you're looking at, as MOT failures often result from cars not being maintained by their owners, for example:
- Bald/damaged tyres;
- Not replacing failed light bulbs;
- Other waer-and-tear issues not attended to as much as it is sudden failures come MOT time or things they cannot see or feel when driving in between services.
Besides, I would suspect that Mercedes parts are more expensive even than Honda's (which normally aren't cheap to start with).
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Thanks for the response, that gives me some food for thought.
Having considered the options and generally happy with the Civic proposed (although may keep a lookout for C-Maxes too)
Having assessed my anxiety levels, I think approved used may be the way to go. I've seen a few models 2012+ 1.8 between 6 and 7k, which when combined with piece of mind and a 1 year warranty, as well as perhaps some kind of dealer vetting policy for cars that means it's in good nick, is probably my next step this week (when this damn storm dies down).
My logic is that the money I would spend towards warranty etc will note be needed and traceability to a dealer would help with any hiccups and the lower mileage will help with residuals.
Excluding the possibility of a bargain privately is something that sits ok with me, so is the approved used route as good as it sounds? Note that with this method I may end up buying blind as it may well be I go to a location further south by train and buy and drive the car up. Any alarm bells with that or is my success rate likely to be 90% plus?
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The bulk of approved used stock has either came to the dealer as a part exchange or via an end of term PCP or lease most likely seeing another of the same brand going to the last keeper or owner which suggests a happy punter. Sometimes it comes from closed auctions (main dealer only) or direct at fixed price ex manufacturer fleet and sometimes mobility. Rarely it’ll come from an open ex fleet auction sale.
It’s usually the best source of used cars but they are a bit dearer in general but do come with a manufacturer backed warranty most often a years worth. But don’t be over confident as some dealers are better than others and thus some poor cars will slip through. In general though when I’m asked to view cars for people I find the best cars through approved used stock or in private sales. There’s a risk to the latter but bargains can be had. I would say that 75% of cars I view at backstreet dealers have serious faults that have me advising the buyer to walk.
Always ask yourself why would a larger dealer offload a nice, easy sold car like a 2012-2013 Civic with sensible miles? Most would sell it themselves rather than take much less at auction. Why has that small dealer got it? I’ll bet there’s something wrong. The exception to this is very old cars that are too old for main dealers to stock which can be decent but again I regularly see MD’s with 12yr old cars often older. They retail anything decent.
I found a nice 2013 Civic 1.4 SE at a local Honda dealer with a years Honda warranty with 53,000 miles and a full Honda history for £5,800 a few months ago which was in near perfect condition. Only really a stone chip or two to differentiate it from new. I thought this was great value for money and was really no dearer after negotiation than a car at other dealers especially after a warranty was added on. He is delighted with the car to date but will no doubt ruin it as he has with every other he’s owned. It’ll be an interesting test for Honda durability as he’ll keep it till it dies.
Working at a Mitsubishi dealer back in the 90’s the approved used stock had to be of a very high standard with anything not measuring up or being too old or up in the miles sold usually at other branches as a normal used car. The manufacturer did keep an eye on things with frequent visits. But again this varies from manufacturer to manufacturer. Do the same thorough checks you would on any car.
Edited by SLO76 on 10/02/2020 at 16:32
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Pete you ask about buying at a distance. You may want to avoid that if you can. The last two cars I bought were approved used, 18 month old. Both bought at our local big town about 30 mins away.
The first was my 1.8 Civic, bought in 2013, and the second was my 1.4 Golf, bough last year. Both needed repeated trips back to the dealers for minor issues in the first month or so. With approved warranty work I could have used any main dealer but I prefer to have the simplest chain of responsibility and using the dealer I bought from. If all else fails your rights are against them. Also it turned out the Golf issue was complicated by a previous poor repair so was outside warranty and fell to the supplying dealer. If I'd bought at distance this would have been even more time consuming than it was.
With respect to the older cars you are considering you are more likely to hit warranty exclusions so it's best to buy locally if you need to fall back on goodwill or your Sale of Goods protection.
Sorry to be negative but as I say I've had problems with both the last cars I bought, even though both turned out good in the end (or so far in the case of the Golf!). You could of course buy from hundreds of miles away and never have an issue but you seem to value low risk and buying locally is one way of reducing risk.
A plus point on the Civic is that Honda main dealer menu service pricing is good value as main dealer service costs go. With free breakdown offers and free MoT (again from the selling dealer) I was paying less than using an indie.
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I forgot to touch on distance selling. I wouldn’t buy a car without seeing it in the metal even if this means a days travel and even an overnight hotel stay.
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Cheers guys I appreciate the feedback.
I will do my best to see a car before buying, but the likelihood of finding a Civic in the near future in Scotland 'approved used' is pretty slim at the moment (would have to really go above budget). There were 3 potentials when I searched in Lincoln, West Bromwich and somewhere else. I guess the plus point is I'll have to give it a nice long drive home which is handy to make sure my dashboard doesn't become a Christmas tree by the time I'm back.
The Honda warranty comes with roadside packages too, which all things considered including the 30-50k beneficial mileage difference from Arnold Clark and privates probably means I'm not suffering on value too badly.
With everyone's help I think I have a good idea, will see how I get on with main risk factor now being distance but likely unavoidable in my context and price range.
Thanks again.
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Sooo I found that approved used hondas within a reachable budget were disappearing quickly within a couple of days of adverts coming up so had to move quick on a 2013 1.8 ES and I paid a deposit over the phone after a decent negotiation. At least it's in the same part of the country as me.
Thanks everyone for your help and hopefully I won't be back posting about the faults or a collapsed sale :)
Would be great if someone knows the answer to these quick ones:
1) What comes as standard usually in case of a puncture? if nothing is with it should I just get a repair kit from the dealer or buy one from amazon. Just bear in mind I would always have breakdown cover and use it rather than change a tyre myself (or obviously those weird repair kits which seem to have reasonable reviews on amazon).
2) Not a showstopper, but if I connect the bluetooth to the phone will I be able to stream audio as well? or is aux the only option?
3) I've looked at some online insurance quotes, but the comparison sites don't show if you're covered to drive other cars 3rd party (there is no option for it or in the quote details). Is this usually something I need to ask for separately?
Thanks again for the advice and you really helped resolve a lot of stress in choosing.
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Would be great if someone knows the answer to these quick ones:
1) What comes as standard usually in case of a puncture? if nothing is with it should I just get a repair kit from the dealer or buy one from amazon. Just bear in mind I would always have breakdown cover and use it rather than change a tyre myself (or obviously those weird repair kits which seem to have reasonable reviews on amazon).
You probably mean change a wheel rather than change a tyre
Changing a wheel should be easy IF your car comes with a spare wheet and tools that work, (which I believe is increasingly rare) and IF you are reasonably fit.
Changing a tyre can be REALLY difficult.
If changing a wheel lis a possibility, try a dry run in dry daylight. Example issues are the wheel nuts are overtightened, best resolved before you need to, or you need support, say a plywood square, for the jack foot on a soft verge.
You can get a sticky string puncture repair thing in Taiwan for next to nothing which works really well. Don't know if these are still available / legal in the UK, but there are higher tech goos that probably work almost as well.
If the tyre is badly damaged though,as might happen if driven flat, it can't be puncture - repaired.
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Sorry yes I mean wheel. I have no intention to change it. Just wondering what I would expect to come with the vehicle. I'd always have roadside assistance.
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