The problem with surveys is that the results depend on the question asked (do they only consider cars between 2 and 4 years old for example) and partly that the survey selects a particular group of people eg readers of What Car, or people with Direct Line.
One good example is electrics. Posh cars with lots of electrics may well score lower, nit because the cars are worse, but because they have more items that can fail. So your bargain basement car might appear more reliable.
A good example of the daftness of surveys appeared a few years ago. It might have been What Car. They scored the Skoda Citigo or Seat Mii much higher than the VW Up, but they are essentially the same cars, made in the same factory, with small cosmetic differences.
Most new cars will have faults. However some cars are better made than others, for example better underbody rustproofing, so although they may perhaps have more faults for the first three years under warranty, over ten years they might end up far better. I was impressed by my VW Up (which does have known gearbox issues) compared to my previous Ford so I stuck with VAG.
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So your bargain basement car doesn’t just appear more reliable because it hasn’t failed, it is more reliable. You pay a premium for cars with more features, they should work. New cars shouldn’t have faults, our last 4 new cars, Toyota Aygo, DS5, Fiat 124, Ford Mustang have all been faultless, no recalls, no breakdown, nothing outside regular servicing.
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Better to concentrate on surveys which tend to reflect personal use of cars and how they are acquired - these are more likely to be relevant. Honesty rather than self-delusion is important - if cost is more important than gizmos, don't spend too much time on the standard kit and options list.
Also differentiate between serious faults which stop the car performing, compared to the trivial or annoying which need fixing but are often the consequence of non-essential complexity.
- Do a high mileage with quite a lot of in town use - ask the taxi drivers
- Tow a caravan or boat - look at caravan and boating mags for owner reviews
- Value reliability over image or performance - look at surveys and reports for cars at 5 or 7 years old
- Want a good performance car - road tests and magazines/fora - acceleration, handling etc is more important than long term reliability
- Buying on a 3 year lease - why would you care about years 4+
- Expect to keep it 10+ years - dealer back up and spare parts more critical.
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We run cars for 15 plus years:
BL Mini estate: rust, subframes, water pump, suspension, rust, indicator stalks failed . Sold at 15 years. Lots of exhausta
Peugeot 16 D: HG went at 13 years. Top hoses, bulbs, rusts in rear. Scrapped at 16 years.
17 year old Yaris D4D: still going strong. Lots of antiroll bar bushes. New window winder mechanism, heater reisistor. Original Exhaust . No rust. - but Dinitrol regualrly)
8 year old Jazz: err consumables only.
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So your bargain basement car doesn’t just appear more reliable because it hasn’t failed, it is more reliable. You pay a premium for cars with more features, they should work. New cars shouldn’t have faults, our last 4 new cars, Toyota Aygo, DS5, Fiat 124, Ford Mustang have all been faultless, no recalls, no breakdown, nothing outside regular servicing.
Yes and no. If you are happy with poverty spec. then yes on average your bargain basement car could be more reliable than the posh one. But if you compare cars with equivalent spec, the survey will mislead.
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Some of these "reliability" are actually "customer satisfaction" surveys when you look closely at them. I believe that is why Skoda tends to get better marks than Seat, VW and Audi (normally in that order" simply because the owners possibly have a different (lower) expectation since they have bought what they perceive to be a budget brand.
Another consideration should be the size of the sample group. I remember a survey in about 2010 which was won outright by the Kia Sportage (think it was actually the old model) and it got a 100% rating. A closer look and there was in truth only one owner responded to that particular car and he (or she) was obviously delighted but it did not mean that car was in any way a winner (the Sportage only became popular with the new model in about 2011).
Look at some of the questions asked. One I remember was "are you happy with the colour?". What on earth had that got to do with reliability or even satisfaction. Only a blind person could fail to spot the car they bought looked hideous and even if it did they could hardly blame the manufacturer.
Take our experience since the mid 90's. Golf TDi from 1996 to 2005. Only issues we had was a vacuum pipe that crimped over and made the turbo work intermittently (fixed FOC next day under warranty) and a faulty brake sensor that illuminated the glow plug light every 12 months. Fixed FOC under warranty and goodwill 4 times before it finally fell off and was replaced (think it was about £50). Replaced by a late 2005 Focus 1.6 TDCi which we had until 2018. Only part that was replaced other than the expected was the alternator belt which was cracking. In 1998 we bought a then new model Mk 1 Focus 1.8 petrol. Cracking car, no issues at all. That was replaced 10 years later by a Mk 2 Focus 1.8 petrol which we kept until late last year, again no problems.
None of those cars do well in any survey yet ours have been unthinkably good (even the much criticised 1.6 TDCi). But all have been serviced correctly by either a main dealer or specialist (lucky to have VAG and Ford indies close by) which IMHO proves that most of the unreliable cars that people buy on here have either been neglected or abused.
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Some of these "reliability" are actually "customer satisfaction" surveys when you look closely at them. I believe that is why Skoda tends to get better marks than Seat, VW and Audi (normally in that order" simply because the owners possibly have a different (lower) expectation since they have bought what they perceive to be a budget brand.
I have long suspected this to be the case, but in addition, i also feel that how well any problems which crop up are dealt with are a major factor in the discrepancies between (for example) VW and Skoda results.
Hypothetically, a VW Up and a Skoda Citygo both suffer the same issue, but the Skoda owner is dealt with attentively and courteously, whereas the VW owner is made to feel like the dealer couldn't care less (though in both cases, the car does get fixed). The Skoda owner is undoubtably going to rate the car and the ownership experience higher, even though both have had the same fault.
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It's often people's expectations of a car and especially a brand/after-sales customer service that dictates how they respond in a survey. Of course, as quite a few people still stick to one brand or have realtively few cars over the years and don't read up on others' experiences means that they don't really have an objective view that can be easily compared to others.
If you don't expect much, but get a better service, you'll likely to give a good review. On the other hand, if you expect a lot (especially from buying an expensive and/or performance car), then you probably do, and are more likely to be disappointed. Yet both may have ended up with a similar actual experience, but the scores will be vastly different.
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I'm easily impressed then and just happy when the dealer cleans my car when it's in for a service. Is it just me or do people spend too much time cleaning cars, surely scraping all that dirt off on a weekly basis can't do it any good;)
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I'm easily impressed then and just happy when the dealer cleans my car when it's in for a service. Is it just me or do people spend too much time cleaning cars, surely scraping all that dirt off on a weekly basis can't do it any good;)
Funny you should say that, i make a point of dropping my own cars, and the lorry i drive, off for service/inspection/mot clean as possible.
It's simple courtesy and showing respect for the mechanic who's going to be working on it...here mate somewhere under the lorry fifth wheel (turntable) there's an air leak, it's ok there's only 15lbs of filth and grease accumulated over the air valves under there, don't mind do you... that's what some people expect and their car equivalents and they wonder why they might get disinterested work from the mechanic, courtesy shown gets returned in most cases.
Forester was in for MOT yesterday, as i waited in the car park for SWMBO to come out there were two vehicles in eyeshot, one being MOT'd with filth so thick on it you couldn't tell what colour the car was, the other in for tyres with wheels caked in probably a years worth of salt, a mechanic isn't some form of lower life form who deserves to work in filth.
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But if I take it in clean and the dealer doesn't have to clean it will I get a discount on the service? There is a semi serious point here, I used to race enduro motorbikes and while I maintained them pretty well mechanically I wasn't unduly concerned about the cosmetics, my bikes (for Husqvarna's) tended to be pretty reliable. It was the guys who fastidiously stripped and cleaned theirs who seemed to have the problems. Maybe a question of balance then so more than the annual wash and polish perhaps?
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But if I take it in clean and the dealer doesn't have to clean it will I get a discount on the service?
I take it that this was tongue in cheek?
The key word here is service.
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We frequently have cars in which are clearly owned by ignorant T@*ts.... examples being...a recent spate of recalls where the seat belt buckles needed replacing...all owners were asked to bring in their cars as clean inside as possible , but several arrived with food/drinks cans/ dirty nappies/unmentionable items swilling about on the floor , where the techinician had to go to reach the buckle... one Motability car came in , our driver collected it from 10 miles away , he had to drive with all the windows open because the dog poo on the back seat smelt so bad. Another Motab car (£25k s worth!) came in for service..the driver only uses it to walk his dogs.... the entire interior was covered in dog hair , all the door panels and dash in muddy paw prints.... refuses to fit a cheap load liner or a dog guard..as he doesnt have to pay when it goes back....
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I'm easily impressed then and just happy when the dealer cleans my car when it's in for a service. Is it just me or do people spend too much time cleaning cars, surely scraping all that dirt off on a weekly basis can't do it any good;)
Get rid of the bird's much and dirt around the wheels/wheel well and anywhere where it can easily trap moisture and thus contribute to the car rusting.
TBH, I rarely clean my car (the rain does it for me, and doesn't leave any streaks as it's soft water), maybe 2-3 times a year when I'm at my parent's house (I live in a flat and washing it at home is a real pain) when I have access to their hose pipe. That and when it gets serviced.
Other than that I keep the lights, windows and number plates clean for safety and legal reasons.
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