Honda Civic 2018 - Rolling Car

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Sun 12 Jan 2020 17:12
Honda Civic 2018 - Rolling Car - littlerussell

Ok, so this could be my fault. I need to rule out that it isn't.

Honda Civic, 2018, only had it for three weeks. Parked in a car park on a very slight gradient, got out, thought it was a little too far forward so hopped in and moved car back a few cm. The car was probably only active for a couple of seconds. I am as certain as I can be that I put the parking brake on - I've had electronic parking brakes on previous cars and you do it instinctively. I do know that on exiting the car, I looked at it from beside the front wing to check the new parking position, and that I noticed that the wheels were dirty (which surely implies the car wasn't rolling away at that point).

On return, the car has rolled a long way back and hit another vehicle. Definitely an insurance claim, currently unroadworthy due to smashed lights and worryingly a small kink at the base of the rear window pillar.

There is currently a class action going in the US against Honda for rolling Civics. I can't find any mention of it on a UK site. https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-settlements/consumer-products/auto-news/868009-owners-report-honda-civic-emergency-brake-defect-in-2016-2018-vehicles/

This is a very similar scenario to what I have experienced - I hopped in quickly to adjust the parking position, and would have turned the ignition off and applied brake at pretty much the same time. I also have a feeling that this happened last week in the car park at work, in that I thought I'd applied the parking brake, and then found I hadn't so I did it again (that could work both ways I guess).

A few minutes into driving away after swapping details, the warning light system had a bit of a meltdown, scrolling through warnings for adaptive cruise control, stability assist, and impact protection, for about 30 seconds before all going off.

My gut feeling is that something in the electronics failed somewhere, perhaps because the engine ran for such a short time that the system hadn't fully booted itself up, and that the warning lights.were the system resetting itself. Or would it do that after a bump?

Of course, I am fully aware that this could be my fault, and I could have not properly applied the handbrake, but I want some peace of mind in terms of (i) that it won't happen again, and (ii) that I haven't just ended up with an insurance hike/excess because of a faulty car. I can't replicate the fault despite trying, which may be due to a unique set of circumstances/the exact timings around the ignition/brake.

Is it worth talking to Honda when I can't show that I put the handbrake on?

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Sun 12 Jan 2020 18:31
Honda Civic 2018 - Rolling Car - Bolt

I would take it back to Honda, I have read there are problems with it and as its motor controlled as far as I know, it needs looking at

can you leave it in gear after you stop so the gear stops the car moving if it does give out, I have the older tourer manual but as its discs all round I always leave in gear in case the discs contract and car moves!

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Sun 12 Jan 2020 18:33
Honda Civic 2018 - Rolling Car - focussed

Assuming the 2018 civic has a manual handbrake, the correct procedure for parking on sloping ground is to apply the foot brake hard and then apply the handbrake while the foot brake is applied. Then leave the car in gear if facing downhill use reverse, if facing uphill use first.

If it's an electronic handbrake just leave in gear as above after the electronicky bits have done their stuff.

The USA Civic is a totally different model to the UK Civic.

There are no recalls on the DVSA database noted for the 2018 UK Civic.

Honda UK will not be interested in your problem, they will tell you to take it to a dealer who will look at it, tell you it's ok and hand you a large bill for the inspection.

Gordon Bennett is your man for late model Civics - his daughter is a Civic owner.

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Sun 12 Jan 2020 18:45
Honda Civic 2018 - Rolling Car - gordonbennet

Unless things have changed that Civic has rear discs and the calipers/pads also serve as the parking brake via a self adjusting mechanism, i'm not up to speed on new shaped Civics so might be barking up the wrong tree here...

The trouble with disc/pad type parking brakes is they require a firm application of the handbrake to apply them well enough, usually and best applied with one's foot already on the brake so the pads are already pressed hard enough against the disc and the parking brake mechanism basically only has to apply enough pressure to keep the pads in place.

Problems can happen with this design when the brake is applied with the brakes hot, as they cool they can retract away from the disc releasing the brakes just enough for the car to roll, also if one applies the parking brake without applying the footbrake the handle cable and levers have to fully compress those pads to the same pressure as they would have been under footbrake pressure, how many of us would think of that as we did as you described, moved the car a few inches.

This problem is part of the reason for electric parking brakes, which again are not infallable and many cars have run away when parked, presumably due to brakes cooling, the other issue is that with an EPB you cannot tell when the parking brake doesn't feel right due to wear and tear or seizing cables as you can when you apply one by hand.

The old ways are still the best no matter how good the brake might be, put the car in gear and whenever possible if the hill is really steep turn the wheel so the car can only go so far till the front wheel jams against a kerb or similar if it should still run away.

It's possible you didn't put enough pressure on the parking brake when you applied it, maybe you were applying the parking brake without your foot already applying brake pad pressure and didn't realise, it's easily done...cars with separate drum parking brakes it makes no odds whether your foot is on the brake or not as the two sets of rear brakes are independent, this applies just the same on those designs that have ear disc brakes, but separate drum parking brakes inside the discs, a better design in my humble.

I would have thought the car too new for there to be any issues with the brakes themselves, but it would pay to get someone to service the brakes properly, you may find proper brake servicing is not part of your annual service package, this applies to many makes who inspect rather than service/lube correctly.

Is it possible when you used the parking brake the ratchet under the lever was only sitting on the edge of the pawl and slipped off when you left meaning one less 'click' than you thought.

Edited by gordonbennet on 12/01/2020 at 18:48

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Sun 12 Jan 2020 19:12
Honda Civic 2018 - Rolling Car - Bolt

its electronic on this model ie computer controlled, the switch operates the HB motor until its tight then tightens 2 teeth then releases as it thinks is correct allowing for disc cooling

if you have new pads fitted a computer is needed to release the pistons, not just anyone can do that.

I think the problem may be that the motor is releasing more than its tightening which can only be cured as far as I know by software update, bearing in mind this comes from an American Civic that had problems when I was out there in 2017 so bits may have changed since

or I may be completely wrong??

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Sun 12 Jan 2020 19:16
Honda Civic 2018 - Rolling Car - Bolt

IIRC USA got this motor a year before UK in 2016 and its the same car with minor differences

But please correct if wrong

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Sun 12 Jan 2020 19:19
Honda Civic 2018 - Rolling Car - gordonbennet

Ah, told you i knew nothing about the later model, EPB then, ignore all my previous waffle completely.

Edited by gordonbennet on 12/01/2020 at 19:23

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Sun 12 Jan 2020 19:31
Honda Civic 2018 - Rolling Car - Bolt

Ah, told you i knew nothing about the later model, EPB then, ignore all my previous waffle completely.

I wouldn't say nothing and far from waffle, I only know as I was going to buy one but no handbrake, magic seats and other bits put me off, so im sticking to the 9th gen tourer for a few more years, but keeping up with what Honda is doing and apart from Toyota nothing else takes my fancy...im odd like that lol

I wouldn't say Honda wont be interested as they have always listened and checked anything for those that I know, without question.

Edited by bolt on 12/01/2020 at 19:33

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Sun 12 Jan 2020 19:39
Honda Civic 2018 - Rolling Car - gordonbennet

Me too # :-)

Not interested in an EPB, though being an admirer of the Avensis estate 2009 on (avoiding only due to said EPB) , i was rather envious that SLO managed to get a bargainous one that had already been treated to new parking brake motors/calipers, fitments which might persuade me to take the gamble.

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Sun 12 Jan 2020 19:46
Honda Civic 2018 - Rolling Car - Bolt

Me too # :-)

Not interested in an EPB, though being an admirer of the Avensis estate 2009 on (avoiding only due to said EPB) , i was rather envious that SLO managed to get a bargainous one that had already been treated to new parking brake motors/calipers, fitments which might persuade me to take the gamble.

If Honda doesn't come up a better car next model, I may consider one myself, but the EPB problem on the Honda isn't reported as widespread ie not many cars are getting the problem which could be manufacturers software fault as they are usually reliable... IMO of course....

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Sun 12 Jan 2020 20:22
Honda Civic 2018 - Rolling Car - littlerussell

Thanks all for the help.

Sorry all - to be clear, it's an electronic brake. From the link, there is a class action in the US claiming that there is a bug in the software meaning that under certain circumstances, the EPB doesn't apply correctly. There had already been a US recall of 2016 cars although only automatics, now found the official link here:

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2016/RCLRPT-16V725-8766.PDF

There is now a separate action in the US claiming that the issue was unresolved in 2017 and 2018 cars. The issue as described doesn't seem to relate only to automatics, either.

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Sun 12 Jan 2020 22:05
Honda Civic 2018 - Rolling Car - Bolt

Thanks all for the help.

Sorry all - to be clear, it's an electronic brake. From the link, there is a class action in the US claiming that there is a bug in the software meaning that under certain circumstances, the EPB doesn't apply correctly. There had already been a US recall of 2016 cars although only automatics, now found the official link here:

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2016/RCLRPT-16V725-8766.PDF

There is now a separate action in the US claiming that the issue was unresolved in 2017 and 2018 cars. The issue as described doesn't seem to relate only to automatics, either.

Have you read the reason and cure of the problem apart from the software update?

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