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I think you may be suffering from a rose tinted view of 90's cars!. Yes they are distinctive if you see one on the road these days, but fun?, as your only mode of transport?, with a low (though undisclosed) budget?. This does not sound to me like a realistic proposition. Unless you can manage without the car when it breaks down (actually, that may be a little unfair, lets say, when it is in the garage getting welded up, yet again, to pass its MOT), and keep it in a garage to prevent rust getting hold or getting worse. Also, a few of the cars you mention, such as MK3 Fiesta, MK3 Astra and most FWD Escorts really are not that nice to drive with stodgy handling and in the case of the Ford's, horrible, rough, noisy and 'tappety' engines. But your main problem will, as Doc says, simply finding something which is not absolute rubbish. On a limited budget this in itself is going to be nigh on impossible with silly prices being asked for nice examples of even the most mundane runabouts.
Without a budget it is difficult to make any sort of recommendation, but two spring to mind for the 'fun' part. The Ford Ka and the MK4 Fiesta 1.25. You really want power steering on either version because this made for a quicker steering rack and so enhances the fun aspect of throwing it down a country road.
Another couple would be the Peugeot 106 and Citroen Saxo, again preferably with power steering (not sure about the Saxo but early 106's didn't have as standard). Any engine will do as it is a light car, but the 1.1 would probably be the best balance for economy and smiles.
But, and it really is a biggy, RUST!!!. These are quite probably going to have problems with rust, especially the Ka.
Edited by badbusdriver on 03/12/2019 at 15:16
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Thanks so much for the reply. I know fun can be subjective, but I do know for one thing that the 90s Clio has a pretty high following from enthusiasts who like its "fun" (I've never driven one though and, does it suffer from French unreliability?).
Budget you say? Probably the low 100s to £500 maybe? From listings I've already seen, it's been a mix of rubbish ones but a few good ones too, within this budget or just a tad above it. I believe I saw a £250 Mk6 Escort that looked very tired and another for £500 or what that looked more decent, so yeah it depends. Another one on Gumtree an H reg Fiesta for £400 that looks in pretty nice condition.
The horrible engines you say of Fords, do they include Zetecs? I've read Zetec engines are much better than standard, but I've never driven one so can't comment. As for power steering, it really does sound like a must, but I thought it was standard in most post-mid-90s cars? Escort only got it in '92 I think.
So at the end you think a 106/Saxo would be best? Honestly I like the look of those cars and they were popular boy racers once, but are they reliable to a good standard? I'm aware of French cars generally not being reliable. Rust? Oooh I know that's gonna be an issue with many 90s cars!
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With a budget of £500 you cannot be fussy, you simply don’t have the funds to buy exactly what you may want. Instead you should be looking at everything within budget whether modern or retro. Above all keep it as simple as possible but you’d be mad to walk past a tidy Toyota Corolla or Yaris to get to an old Nova with holes in the floor which to be honest at £500 anything remotely desirable will be at the very end of its life.
Older Honda Civics, Toyota Corollas etc etc with a decent Mot are good options at this money, I supplied one on a V plate to one customer for £360 almost 2yrs ago now and it’s still going and a 2001 Civic 1.4 to Bro in law for £550 that’s since passed two Mots cheaply. These are far better bets than the kind of 90’s or 90’s retro metal that pulls your heart strings.
Another thing about the cars you’re suggesting most will have terminal corrosion at this age and parts, particularly body panels will be hard to come by. Few drive well and at £500 you’ll be scraping the bottom of the barrel.
I’d either beg or borrow to get at least £1,500 if you simply must have something retro and I do get the appeal, I used to sell stuff like this in the 90’s and have many fond memories that draw me to the same but as I say you’ll need more money to get anything worthwhile that would be of any use as daily transport unless you landed very lucky with some old buddy wanting rid of a longterm owned wee bargain. It does happen, I hoovered a V6 Ford Cougar in great condition for £300 once but it’s a risk and not common.
Give us a rough location and we’ll flag up a few local options.
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Yeah I have realised that perhaps my budget is too low, I'm willing to go £1000 instead. Honestly the main reason I chose 500 was because of high insurance costs anyway so I tried to keep the car cost itself as low as possible.
As for location, I'm near Lincoln.
These are some more modern bargains I've found a Focus Civic Lupo www.gumtree.com/p/ford/2000-ford-focus-low-miles-/...3 www.gumtree.com/p/honda/2001-honda-1.4-civic-long-...9 www.gumtree.com/p/volkswagen/vw-lupo-1.0/1360373173 seem to be in overall good condition, decent mileage, and just a couple hundreds of pounds. Very attractive if you ask me, but without the 90s retro feel I like.
Edited by Malcolm T on 04/12/2019 at 19:25
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One of the best cheapo cars you can get is a Mk I Focus. They’re brilliant to drive, mechanically very robust and they’re now starting to go up in value if you get a nice one. They do rot like it’s the 1970’s though and that particular example has seen the nasty end of a spray can unfortunately and looks terrible. The Lupo looks tidy enough but that Civic is a mess.
Did spot this. The Mk I Focus will like the Escorts before it will become a classic and high spec examples will head up sooner. The Ghia is typically owned by older owners and this private sale sounds worthy of a look.
www.gumtree.com/p/cars-vans-motorbikes/ford-focus-...l
This isn’t exactly retro but sounds awfa good for a first car to me...
www.gumtree.com/p/cars-vans-motorbikes/ford-fiesta...l
Edited by SLO76 on 04/12/2019 at 21:33
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A wee retro number that combines reliability, fun and old school looks... These are a joy to drive, simple and nimble, just watch for rot underneath.
www.gumtree.com/p/cars-vans-motorbikes/a-classic-s...l
Edited by SLO76 on 04/12/2019 at 21:39
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That's a lovely example. And they're certainly cars that are still around so they must be reliable. £799 is a brilliant price too.
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I've read many good things about Mk1 Focus. Apparently its handling is as good if not better as the latest new cars.
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+ 1 to the above. It depends a bit on what journeys you will use it for. My personal yen is for a Peugeot 205 (1983-95 in UK), I've had quite a few and they don't rust unless they suffer damage and need mending**. There are still a few for sale, but not GTi's which now fetch silly money and will cost to insure. Some are very robust diesels, but those may be bad news these days.
Plenty of 206s too, but I can't comment on those re corrosion, and one hears a lot about electrical gremlins. But that can happen with any car of the age you are looking for. Re the 106 - unless you have small feet, they will get in each other's way in a tight pedal-box.
Look around for private sellers and if you find something interesting check its MoT history on line for corrosion problems.
** amusingly, on E-bay just now there is a 205 1.4 petrol with 500K on the clock. I personally don't believe that - I suspect it has a km-odometer to manage 30K a year !!!
Edited by Andrew-T on 03/12/2019 at 15:24
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https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Peugeot-205-diesel-gld-12-months-MOT/184062238518?hash=item2adaf6df36:g:RIoAAOSwIV5d4hpA
Looks very tidy, and just the one fail on a small bit of welding. Only a N/A, but it's a light car...
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There's a nice 205 1.1 GL for sale on HJ Classics for £695 at the moment.
classics.honestjohn.co.uk/cars-for-sale/details?s=...0
Edited by joegrundy on 03/12/2019 at 15:37
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That looks brilliant to be honest. Good colour.
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That looks brilliant to be honest. Good colour.
Here's one you might try - it's lost a few bits of trim and the driver's seat is a bit tired, but the MoT history is pretty tidy. It's like the one I recently sold, and I reckon there may be about a dozen still on the road.
https://www.gumtree.com/p/peugeot/peugeot-205/1360132422
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Looks very tidy, and just the one fail on a small bit of welding. Only a N/A, but it's a light car...
Don't get an early 205 diesel unless it has power steering, they can be very hard work. If you can find a turbo-diesel with PAS (1990-94), that would be fun to drive. Give it new oil and filter and a dose of injector cleaner first. But you may have to wait a while for a good one.
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I can't even imagine driving without power steering.
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I can't even imagine driving without power steering.
Pah!
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I can't even imagine driving without power steering.
The first 24 cars I had did not have power steering, never a problem, just needed a bit of muscle when parking using full lock. Admittedly, tyres tended to be narrower and rear wheel drive cars often had better lock than front drive models.
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Oh? I assumed lack of power steering to be a pain from what I read. Maybe it's doable.
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Oh? I assumed lack of power steering to be a pain from what I read. Maybe it's doable.
It's doable in a light car with narrow tyres and a smallish petrol engine. Diesel lumps are heavy, which calls for wider tyres.
When PAS started to appear as an option on the 205, some diesels had it, others not. We knew of a diesel 205 with electric windows but no PAS. SWMBO's car was the opposite - much more practical.
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I can't even imagine driving without power steering.
My 1996 Nissan Micra didn't have any, and was fine to drive, including manouvring and low speed (e.g. parking). My parents' Ford Fiesta from the same time also had no power steering and was a cracking car to drive.
I should note that, in addition to both being much lighter cars than their modern equivalents (even comparing with cars the same size today, not the latest versions of them which are bigger and heavier) all have power steering but also have much wider, lower profile tyres as well, and more kit on them, making them heavier. The improvements in engine tech tends to cancel out the extra weight, but not on the slow speed steering.
My dad's first Fiesta 3dr (96P) had 155/70 R13 tyres fitted and the car weighed 928kg;
His current Fiesta 3dr (08 run-out model, not the later one) has 195/50 R15 tyres fitted and weighs 1103kg (and his one doesn't have A/C either!).
Nearly 20% heavier. It's also 1.5 sec slower to 60, and he has noticed how less nippy it is despite it having the same (variant) 1.25 engine.
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I can't even imagine driving without power steering.
My 1996 Nissan Micra didn't have any, and was fine to drive, including manouvring and low speed (e.g. parking). My parents' Ford Fiesta from the same time also had no power steering and was a cracking car to drive.
I had a Renault Dodge 50 Series ex-BT workshop box-body truck with double-wheels on the rear axle. 4.4 litre engine, 5 ton excise class IIRC.
No PS, just a fairly large SW, yet that's even bigger than a Nissan Micra.
It was scary to drive in London due to the size and lack of rear visibility, but didn't seem to require massive steering effort in low speed manouvres..
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Thanks for the reply. My journeys would range from common drives to work, mates and the supermarket, to (less frequently) 1-2 hr motorway journeys to me gramps in Leicestershire. You think Peugeot 205s are good? They certainly look great. I'd rather drive petrol than diesel if I'm honest. I know diesels have higher MPG (what I want) but the backlash against it is pretty bad. Would 205 be a better choice than 106? 206 may be a little too modern for me!
What would your view be on Fords and Vauxhalls of the time? I'm actually in love with the Nova! As you may have noticed I seem to be a little negative about French cars here - excuse my ignorance, it's just that I've read much about how quickly they break down (even though I'll admit I've never driven one, and me dad's old AX seemed to be OK). Am I being delusional here? You must be more experienced than me and I would appreciate if you can change my view of French cars to positivity. Because I really do like the look of the 205.
500K is probably something only a Toyota can survive on!
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As you may have noticed I seem to be a little negative about French cars here - excuse my ignorance, it's just that I've read much about how quickly they break down (even though I'll admit I've never driven one, and me dad's old AX seemed to be OK).
Without seeming to be negative I think its reasonable to say that EVERY car in your up to £500 and 20+ years old will at some time (possibly frequently) break down. Most broke down when they were new, Just make sure you get break down cover with unlimited call outs before you drive whatever you decide on.
But its not all bad news, even a more recent £500 car is guaranteed to break down sometime.
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I fear, given your budget and make/model desires, you could very quickly find yourself in whole world of pain.....the risks are clear..particularly rust.
As said previously, consider the Japanese makes...whilst they may not fit the bill in some ways, you probably have a better chance of decent overall condition and reliability that many other marques might not so easily provide.
Be lucky.!
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Yeah I'm well aware of the risks, and how rusty those 90s cars can get like the Fiesta. I'll have to try deal with it when driving one.
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You think Peugeot 205s are good? They certainly look great. I'd rather drive petrol than diesel if I'm honest. You must be more experienced than me and I would appreciate if you can change my view of French cars to positivity. Because I really do like the look of the 205.
I've owned about a dozen 205s, which may say more about me than the 205, but they have very rarely let me down, and never in an expensive way. I recently sold my last one, a 1.4 petrol with nearly 150K, to a family member, and he (and his daughter) are besotted with it. If you can do simple DiY you could do many routine jobs yourself, which would reduce the chances of a breakdown (hopefully)....
At the end of the day it comes down to buying and maintaining carefully, as has been said.
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Thanks so much for the reply. I know fun can be subjective, but I do know for one thing that the 90s Clio has a pretty high following from enthusiasts who like its "fun" (I've never driven one though and, does it suffer from French unreliability?).
This will be for the 16v and more particularly, the Williams. Having said that, the 'bread and butter' Clio's are good enough little things.
From listings I've already seen, it's been a mix of rubbish ones but a few good ones too, within this budget or just a tad above it. I believe I saw a £250 Mk6 Escort that looked very tired and another for £500 or what that looked more decent, so yeah it depends. Another one on Gumtree an H reg Fiesta for £400 that looks in pretty nice condition.
You really can't say that one car is better than another simply by looking at a picture!. At this budget, you need to be far more concerned with what is underneath. Structural rust is what will fail the MOT and ultimately doom the car to the scrap heap. Surface rust on the body is unsightly, but unless there are sharp edges protruding, it isn't really a problem. With any potential purchase you need to get right underneath with a magnet and screwdriver poking and prodding, especially on any suspiciously shiny patches of underseal.
The horrible engines you say of Fords, do they include Zetecs?
No, that is why my suggestion was the MK4 Fiesta 1.25. This was where the excellent Yamaha designed 1.25 Zetec engine first made its appearance. Not to be confused with the 1.3 also available on this model (this is also what you will find under the bonnet of the Ka, but it is such a hoot to drive, i can forgive it that!).
I'd rather drive petrol than diesel if I'm honest. I know diesels have higher MPG (what I want) but the backlash against it is pretty bad.
With such a tiny budget, you can't really be choosy. If you really want something from the 90's, it might even have to be an auto as this is more likely to have been looked after.
I'm actually in love with the Nova! As you may have noticed I seem to be a little negative about French cars here - excuse my ignorance, it's just that I've read much about how quickly they break down (even though I'll admit I've never driven one, and me dad's old AX seemed to be OK).
I had two Nova's, a 1.0 and a 1.2, neither were that nice to drive. I'd take a 106, Saxo or a Ka over a Nova any day of the week.
500K is probably something only a Toyota can survive on!
Plenty of engines out there could do 500k with a reasonable level of servicing and driven with a degree of mechanical sympathy (including a diesel 205).
Am I being delusional here?
Yes, but maybe not in the way you are implying. I think you are delusional in your expectations of what you are going to get for £500 (which is invariably going to be a pile of excrement unless you are very very lucky). My honest opinion would be to forget about the car until such times as you can afford to spend quite a bit more. Buy a bus pass or bicycle in the mean time so you can save hard.
I will regale you with a cautionary tale relating to my earlier comments re judging a car by its appearance. In the late 90's, the young chap who worked alongside me valeting cars in a garage in Wigan came in with a Ford Escort (around 7 years old at the time) he had bought 6 months previously (before he passed his test). He said the car was 'immaculate' when he got it, and it looked absolutely fine. But he wanted to get one of the mechanics to check it out as it had been stood for 6 months. The mechanic wouldn't let him drive it home as it was so rusty underneath, said it was 'a death trap' and (amongst other things) the engine was literally 'about to fall out'!. The car was taken on the back of a truck from the garage to a scrap yard.
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You're getting great advice here from forum members, I would add to take an expert with you when you look, this is a minefield and you could very very easily lose hundreds if not more on a money pit! You'd be better off looking at 2000 to 2007 Corollas or civics if you need cheap motoring or Yaris. Strongly built, rust resistant and good value. We have one that's 16 years old and going strongly. Forget Nova! Very lightly built, I had one and yes it was quite fun but rusted away and was a constant battle to keep at bay. Honestly unless you are a mechanic or friends with one and havea workshop, I would forget the idea for the time being, just trying to save you hassle and money! But good luck and don't buy without expert help!
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Yes I really appreciate everyone's input! I really tend to have a thing for the Nova, probably a wave of nostalgia and the fact they've disappeared away. Speaking of Yaris, I actually passed my test in a 04 plate one back in 2013! It seemed like a good car, and I'm aware of the Japanese reliability. But to me personally (and this is subjective) the Yaris as well as Micra (both 90s and 00s) or Starlet just don't look as fun or special as a Nova or old Fiesta. To be honest I feel like I'm really into the idea of driving an old car that used to be popular but have almost disappeared off the roads, like Nova or Escort. That has influenced me, as well as me dad's cars and watching HubNut on Youtube!
Do you think rust is the no. 1 main risk I face with an older car? That's at least what I'd expect.
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. Honestly unless you are a mechanic or friends with one and havea workshop, I would forget the idea for the time being, just trying to save you hassle and money! But good luck and don't buy without expert help!
OP, if you are not a mechanic, on that budget, in the UK, you will have to become one.
You will find this easier with a 90's car than a noughties one, (easier still with an eighties car, but 80's survivors likely wont be within that budget)
This can be quite satisfying, but it can also be a PITA.
I'd say you have to get your head around whether you are up for that, taking into account your domestic situation in your new town, before you start wondering which is the most fun 90's poser car that comes with power steering..
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Thanks so much for the advice given. Seems you're telling me to avoid Mk3 Fiestas and Novas. Perhaps I really should look at the Frenchies for once as everyone seems to be recommending them.
Yes maybe you are right about my mistake of judging by pics. I'll try not to any more, seems pre-judgmental indeed. I should see the cars in person. I'm well aware of how bad rust can affect these older cars, and when I drive one should absolutely stay careful to avoid it affecting the body. Also perhaps my budget is too low. I'm just trying to save as much as I can considering I'll already be paying a price for insuring one. But perhaps the inevitable is that my budget should be upped to about £750 instead.
A side question here: I was looking at ads for Peugeot 205 and I saw one that is a convertible. Are convertibles higher taxed/more expensive to insure compared to a standard hatchback?
Edited by Malcolm T on 03/12/2019 at 22:09
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A side question here: I was looking at ads for Peugeot 205 and I saw one that is a convertible. Are convertibles higher taxed/more expensive to insure compared to a standard hatchback?
Not necessarily. The 205 soft-top is a nice little car (I have had four over the years) but not ideal for a daily driver - which is why there are still quite a few about as they have done fewer miles. Remember that specialist insurers will cover a 205 at 'classic' rates. Roofs and the plastic rear window easily develop splits or leaks, and the hoop below the rear screen (no wiper, obviously) often rusts with condensation. The boot is small, and the rear seats are awkward to get to, as in the 3-door hatchbacks. Another niggle is that the roof has no gutter, so opening the door, the rain drips onto your legs ....
The CJ was a very basic version originally aimed at trendy young ladies.
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Thanks for that. That does make me put the 205 on the list. Would you say it beats a Nova? I bet it does, since I know many Novas were pretty dire as far as I remember, but I love that car regardless. The 205 seems very attractive though I must say.
Since I'm clearly a fanatic of older cars, I will really try to be kind to them and maintain them and prevent rust. My goal is to be able to run one for many years to come, and I'm wishing to one day in the future have an 80s Escort cabrio or Audi 80 cabrio, really like those.
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