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I drove for 10+ years a Nissan Primera with xenon dip beam and H7 (halogen) high beam. The dip beam was a step up on the previous car (with H4 halogen lights) but a step down when using the 55w H7 bulb over the 65w H4 bulb - by that time I had been using xenon like type of H4 bulb. What confused me was that the xenon light, whilst certainly brighter did not have as good spread and forward penetration as the H4 headlamp - something I regard as being due to the headlight & reflector design, and not the lamp powering the light. Note these xenons were full power, not half powered versions, so had to have automatic levelling and wash systems. With the use of an allen key it was still possible to adjust the beam height myself, not that I needed to do so. The wash system was all water and no result, nothing has ever come close the proper wiper blade headlight wash system that was fitted to my Volvo 360 in the 1990's.
Nowadays I drive a Seat with the very excellent LED lights, which includes an automatic levelling system. High beam is as good as a floodlight, low beam is certainly very bright and illuminates the road well however the spread of light is bettered by other LED systems, and at the moment forward penetration of light seems to have sagged. I am about to reach for the allen key again with a hope to make an improvement, I find it dangerous to be driving and having late sight of what is ahead.
Finally, I dread driving Mrs S's Mazda 2 at night, the H4 headlamps are showing their age and it's like using a discoloured candle for illumination.
Edited by Smileyman on 28/10/2019 at 20:48
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The wash system was all water and no result, nothing has ever come close the proper wiper blade headlight wash system that was fitted to my Volvo 360 in the 1990's.
In the '80s, my Vauxhalls had low-pressure washers with a wiper blade and cleaned the lenses far better than any high-pressure washer system I've had since.
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Not forgetting the 'bunny ears' indicators I had on my first bubble car:
www.leedsengine.info/leeds/images/Hunslet%20Engine...g
Wow bathtub tom, that is great. Wasn't sure initially what it was, but when i found out, i looked it up. Seems that there was a version of the Scootacar which could do nearly 70mph thanks to a 324cc Villiers engine!. That seems frankly terrifying in something that small and with proportions like that!.
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nothing has ever come close the proper wiper blade headlight wash system that was fitted to my Volvo 360 in the 1990's.
I had a few Saab's while working at the Saab dealership in Aberdeen, and they all had headlamp wipers. Absolutely brilliant, and so much better than headlamp washers. But aerodynamics ruled them out, just like pop-up headlamps (well that and pedestrian safety!)
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High pressure washers i find work better if you have glass rather than plastic headlight lenses, seemingly only found on lorries now, wipers would probably scratch plastic lenses in no time, just to add to the sun damage they suffer from.
I had wipers on the headlights of a 90's Volvo lorry, which fired up automatically every time you washed the screen with the headlights on, you would get through a whole massive bottle of wash fluid in one shift, which presented a major problem in the winter out on the road for 12+ hours every day and trying to carry enough washer anti freeze which the (now thankfully long sold up) mob i worked for thought an extravagance undeserved of by low life lorryists anyway, disconnecting the headlamp's own washer pump sorted that.
What amazes me is how many cars you see running around with headlamp lenses almost completely opaque due to sun damage, do these people never travel in the dark?
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Wow bathtub tom, that is great. Wasn't sure initially what it was, but when i found out, i looked it up. Seems that there was a version of the Scootacar which could do nearly 70mph thanks to a 324cc Villiers engine!. That seems frankly terrifying in something that small and with proportions like that!.
Mine was a 9E Villiers 200cc engine, but the birds in the late '60s found it far preferable to a motorbike-only slightly drier and warmer.
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Finally, I dread driving Mrs S's Mazda 2 at night, the H4 headlamps are showing their age and it's like using a discoloured candle for illumination.
You have probably got too accustomed to the over-bright lamps in your other car.
I wonder how people got around during the war, when headlamps were baffled to prevent enemy bombers seeing anything ....
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There was so little petrol available that I would imagine people didn't go anywhere they didn't know.
Edited by Avant on 29/10/2019 at 00:04
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You have probably got too accustomed to the over-bright lamps in your other car.
I wonder how people got around during the war, when headlamps were baffled to prevent enemy bombers seeing anything ....
People kept their night vision, which when used as it should improves, think of those lovely clear moonlit nights we used to get before they concreted over, and lit up with garish lights, so much of the country, you could drive by moonlight alone.
I well remember everyone except complete strangers drove around London on sidelights only ( not pointless ever more camp DRL's), same thing, you kept your night vision and much safer it was for people on foot or on bicycles they didn't disappear into the shadows caused by extreme lighting.
And yes, the problem with ever brighter lights is they then need ever sharper cut off points in the beam pattern, without some light scatter which less bright lights can still allow, the area beyond the superlight is now so dark as to be impenetrable.
Don't worry, someone will be along in a minute to blame it all on ageing eyes.
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Getting back to rear lights, I followed a Tesla yesterday, it had quite possibly the smallest indicators known to man, couldn't have been more than a square inch, it was only the fact we was in a line of traffic and he needed to turn that I noticed them at all.
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<< someone will be along in a minute to blame it all on ageing eyes. >>
Some truth in that of course, but plenty of aging people still drive, so manufacturers should allow more for that and stop adding to the brilliance war.
And sharp cutoffs are fine and dandy, but only on level terrain. Any bumps or gentle convex surfaces nullify them. I guess the makers design them mainly for use on straight fast roads - just the situations where the need for them may be least?
Edited by Andrew-T on 29/10/2019 at 09:28
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In respect to the cut offs, I recall in a previously owned 2001 Nissan Primera with xenons, there was virtually no scatter, it was around c.30-40 yards of very good light then nothing, at the time I preferred the halogens on previous vehicles, which as other posters have said, whilst not as bright, seemed to provide more longer (albeit dimmer) distance illumination and therefore felt safer.
Current A4 has matrix LED headlights, which in the eye of the beholder are really good, as they mask out vehicles approaching and ones you are following whilst on auto, to prevent dazzling. The auto function is linked to the GPS, so when you come from an unlit rural road to a lit village or town, they automatically switch back to dip. All of which I recognise can be done with the flick of a switch.
In the 3.5 years I've owned the car, I've only been flashed by approaching vehicles, whilst on auto, 2 times, and only once when following (it was a white pick up truck) did they not "dip" automatically.
Definitely agree with slight off topic comments about indicators, golf Mk V was particularly bad during the day. I think the dynamic indicators (A4 has them front and rear) help, and are becoming more popular, there are even certain trucks with them on now, all of which help to warn other motorists of your intention, maybe not such a bad new piece of tech !
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Definitely agree with slight off topic comments about indicators, golf Mk V was particularly bad during the day. I think the dynamic indicators (A4 has them front and rear) help, and are becoming more popular, there are even certain trucks with them on now, all of which help to warn other motorists of your intention, maybe not such a bad new piece of tech !
Can't agree about those scrolling indicators, another showroom gimmick which don't stand out immediately as indication lights especially if umpteen million lumens of stop lights mere inches away have just fired up, utterly useless on the back of lorries in bright sunshine or bad weather during the hours of daylight.
Stop lights are another thing, dazzling light power and all you've done is triggered the brake light switch, on some lorries they come on with the retarder (thankfully not mine) which can be in use for half a mile or more gently slowing the vehicle and you're foot hasn't been anywhere near the brake pedal, what hope the poor bod behind when after 40 seconds of continuous gentle slowing via an on board retarder there is suddenly a reason for panic stop in front.
This light situation has got out of hand in so many ways now, instead of fulfilling functions they are increasingly decorations and weapons for the light wars.
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<< Can't agree about those scrolling indicators, another showroom gimmick >>
I remember sequential rear indicators on US cars from 50 years ago, they were just a gimmick then. No LEDs of course.
<< Stop lights are another thing, dazzling light power and all you've done is triggered the brake light >>
As I have said before, stop lights are designed to be obvious in daylight, but no attempt is made to turn them down after dark. Again, I had a Triumph 1300 in the early 70s with a simple relay which dimmed those lamps when headlamps were on. Simple and relatively cheap, but clearly too expensive for today's designers to contemplate.
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Ditto my Dad's 1971 Triumph 2000. A big mention in The Motor road test.
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Can't agree about those scrolling indicators,
Not impressed either, they just seem to be an excuse for designers to be flash with LEDs. I think they are more distracting than the usual ones. The next stage of one upmanship will be a little screen on either corner with an animated finger pointing in the direction you want to go. It's not progress, it's just over complicating the original concept.
How much does it cost to replace a light unit, surely it must have an integrated controller.
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<< The next stage of one upmanship will be a little screen on either corner with an animated finger pointing in the direction you want to go. It's not progress, it's just over complicating the original concept. >>
Like many other aspects of modern car design it consists mostly of vanity projects. Shapes have been optimised in the wind tunnel, and no-one bothers with elegant shapes any more. Bling, bling .....
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I hope once the exit from EU is complete there will be some sensible (simple) changes to UK spec for cars .. to include...
Day running lamps - must include rear lights or vehicle have automated system to illuminate the rear lights if it is dark or the windscreen wipers are operating (because it is raining)
Day running lamps - must be fitted with light sensor so that the level of brightness is reduced when it is dark - especially for cars with fairly light super bright LED DLR's
Headlamps - must be fitted with sensor to high beam to dip if there is oncoming traffic (manual over-ride via indicator stalk for times needed)
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I hope once the exit from EU is complete there will be some sensible (simple) changes to UK spec for cars .. to include...
Very unlikely - manufacturers will want to keep specs the same as EU to keep costs and specs the same and UK government unlikely to want to make changes.
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I have had Xenon on two cars. One self levelled the other did not seem to. Once had to replace a bulb, cost over £60 for the bulb alone!! TBH I find headlights seem to work alright on most cars. Wouldn't particularly specify Xenon or LED as an expensive option over standard Halogen. Maybe it is me but driving appropriately for the conditions, especially in the dark, means the headlights do their job alright. No doubt manufacturers will install whatever makes them the most money and complies with regulation.
Cheers Concrete
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Must agree with the rear daytime running lights, can't believe there not included now.
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Disagree with comments about dynamic indicators (I would because i have them), the human eye is good at detecting movement, it's part of our evolution. Therefore add movement to light and it's going to stand out more, especially as others have pointed out if the stop lights are brighter than in older vehicles. It may be a case of making the wrong thing righter, but the reality is we're not likely to be going to go back in terms of the amount of light we produce, think candle to incandescent to halogen etc., so if this is the case, then dynamic indicators provide a better visual signal than a single lamp alone. For trucks again, it adds movement, which is therefore got to better than a masked out or partially visible amber signal in a sea of red light.
Discuss...
All of which is off topic.....
Back on topic (ish) I'm still amazed at the number of drivers who only use DLR's (with no rear lights) in poor daylight conditions, rain, fog etc. It's illegal in some US states (e.g. Florida) to not drive with your headlights on in the rain, why we would not do the same here? Most cars I've driven in the last 15 years have auto lights, which all turn on once the windscreen wipers have been on for around 2-3 mins, (if common sense doesn't mean the fleshy bit behind the wheel does it), so it could be done. Finally what about auto dimming mirrors, why can't that be a standard feature, both rear view and door mirrors, this would reduce dazzle effects from vehicles behind.
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I think it depends very much on the specific car and also how you use it.
Our first car with Xenons was our 2009 S-max. It had Bi-Xenons (low and high beam). They were, quite simply, the most superb headlights on any car we have had. If you do any amount of driving down dark country lanes in the winter, you will learn to appreciate the benefits of these, especially on full beam.
Our 2015 Sorrento also has Xenons, but only on the dipped beam. The full beam is halogen. They are OK, but not a patch on the S-max
My 2015 Leon has full LED headlights. They are very good indeed. Almost (but not quite) on a par with the S-max we had.
Our 2016 Leaf, by comparison, feels like it has a pair of old torches for headlights. They are old school reflector design halogens, quite why everyone doesn't use projector rather than reflector lights now is beyond me.
If all your driving is on lit roads, or around town, frankly I can't see the benefit of Xenons or LEDs.
Incidentally, I have never had to replace any kind of headlight bulb on any car we've owned, up to and including vehicles 10 years old.
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(if common sense doesn't mean the fleshy bit behind the wheel does it), so it could be done.
Yes, all sorts of things COULD be done, and no doubt occupy the minds of the gimmick designers for the car makers. But they just add to the level of complication in the vehicle's computing system, and if they become subject to MoT requirements, present another reason for replacing some expensive bit of special equipment.
All so that drivers can think a bit less about what they are doing while driving.
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And don't forget the upcoming laser lights from Audi.
Lord knows what they'll be like!
Edited by Avant on 03/11/2019 at 00:53
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And don't forget the upcoming laser lights from Audi.
Lord knows what they'll be like!
Like your surrounded by walls of light from the way they work, if your detected in front the led in that zone is shut down, but the light around you is kept to full brightness unless another car is detected where another zone is shut down so both cars are in the dark
but surrounded by bright light, not sure what some are going to make of these lights as in my opinion they are still too bright- more so than what we have now
Im not over keen on auto main beam as it doesn't shut down early enough in dark roads, though I still use it.
Edited by Avant on 03/11/2019 at 00:54
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Laser lights are already in use. They do not shine lasers out, they just use laser diodes instead of white LEDs. While LEDs are actually blue/UV LEDs with a layer of fluorescent phosphors. Laser diodes are blue/LED and can direct their beam onto external phosphor arrays which gives far more flexibility and eliminates the problem of the phosphors being burned by the heat within the LED.
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<They do not shine lasers out, they just use laser diodes>
Awwww, disappointed now!
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