Renault Zoe and similar - Electric Car ownership

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Thu 19 Sep 2019 20:45
Renault Zoe and similar - Electric Car ownership - terry GREENWOOD

Electric Cars.
The motor industry is misrepresenting the reality of ownership of an EV especially smaller cars.
The purchase price is manipulated by taking the battery out and placing it on lease. However when you come to sell the only buyers available are the brand dealer or private. WBAC and the like wont touch it neither will general garages or other brand dealers as they get stuck with the battery lease cost until they sell it. So a very large % of the resale market is not available. The brand dealers know this so screw you on price! No one tells you this till its too late, especially the motor industry and Government who have an agenda. The second issues is when key parts (their are only 3 really) go wrong out of warranty which is an issue starting to occur for buyers. The parts like the battery charger are not built for repair but replacement. In theory this is good until you find a new charger for example costs more than the residual value of the car!! So its completely uneconomic to buy it but unless you do you have a useless metal lump sitting on the drive. Again funny enough this is also never covered when magazines, reviewers or the motor industry talk about EV ownership. So be aware as great as the move to EV might be the industry is yet again less than honest lets hope this less than straightforward and necessary move isn't diesel MK2

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Thu 19 Sep 2019 22:15
Renault Zoe and similar - Electric Car ownership - alan1302

This is why you should do your homework before you buy anything - especially something expensive like this.

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Fri 20 Sep 2019 10:12
Renault Zoe and similar - Electric Car ownership - terry GREENWOOD

Thanks for the somewhat glib answer. Their is only so much you can do plus some of the points I raise are only just becoming known as people sell their first EVs or they go out of warranty. The reason I post is to pass on true ownership experiences. Hopefully others will consider these facts when purchasing. So yep do your homework and consider hopefully helpful posts like mine.

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Thu 19 Sep 2019 22:25
Renault Zoe and similar - Electric Car ownership - mcb100
As far as I’m aware, the only manufacturer that operates a battery lease scheme is Renault. It guarantees a new battery should the original drop below 75% capacity. You can, however, now buy the battery with the car. Higher purchase price, obviously, but no lease costs. Buyer beware, though if you need to replace it out of warranty (unlikely). It’s no secret, it’s all over Renault’s website.
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Fri 20 Sep 2019 10:16
Renault Zoe and similar - Electric Car ownership - terry GREENWOOD

Hi

Nissan did the same with the Leaf which is significant as it's the best selling EV I believe. You are correct you can now buy the car with battery included which nearly doubles tohe price but does mean the full resale market is available.

No answer to the cost of replacement issue except never let your car run out of warranty otherwise you will be left with an uneconomic repair/ replacement

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Fri 20 Sep 2019 10:38
Renault Zoe and similar - Electric Car ownership - pd

Nissan sell replacement Leaf batteries. You can get the refurbished from about £2000 I think and new they're about £4000.

So, not cheap, although I suspect long term third party repair services will develop as numbers increase.

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Fri 20 Sep 2019 10:45
Renault Zoe and similar - Electric Car ownership - pd

No answer to the cost of replacement issue except never let your car run out of warranty otherwise you will be left with an uneconomic repair/ replacement

To put it into context though battery replacement will become an issue for electric cars although prices will come down.

However, on the upside, even if you have to buy a new battery I suppose in the interim you won't have been replacing any DSG gearboxes, dual mass flywheels, clutches, autobox valve bodies, EGR valves, petrol or diesel filters, fuel filters, exhausts, radiators, oil, oil leaks, driveshaft seals, main seals, injectors, fuel pumps, water pumps, cambelts, throttle bodies, starter motors, oil filters, crank seals, high pressure pumps, swirl flaps, turbos, turbo actuators, MAF sensors, MAP sensors, thermostats...or any of the endless thins which can cost a lot and be uneconomic to repair on current cars.

Electric cars have the potential to be much more reliable and have lower maintenance costs than the current ICE ones.

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Fri 20 Sep 2019 12:28
Renault Zoe and similar - Electric Car ownership - Vitesse6

Do you have any statistics for the failure of battery chargers and or the replacement costs?

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Sat 21 Sep 2019 10:53
Renault Zoe and similar - Electric Car ownership - terry GREENWOOD

Talking to Renault I got the impression that they had had issues but many fell within the warranty period so no details are available I guess. Also as cars fall out of warranty I suppose the issue becomes more obvious. Things go wrong we know that but as these key parts are not built for repair but replacement the cost in the near future at least is likely to be disproportionate to the cars value. Especially smaller EVs.

This is a factor of ownership as is the reduced resale market if you lease the battery. You need to factor these things into the buying decision and certainly into any consideration on an extended warranty.

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Fri 20 Sep 2019 20:20
Renault Zoe and similar - Electric Car ownership - barney100

How long does the battery last before it drops below 75% efficiency?

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Fri 20 Sep 2019 22:55
Renault Zoe and similar - Electric Car ownership - alan1302

How long does the battery last before it drops below 75% efficiency?

Depends on usage.

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Sat 21 Sep 2019 18:14
Renault Zoe and similar - Electric Car ownership - pd

Usage and the manufacturer. Tesla seem to be showning as little as a 10% drop after 150,000 miles on Model S & X. Leaf seems to show more and Zoe a fair bit more.

It's

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Sat 21 Sep 2019 21:15
Renault Zoe and similar - Electric Car ownership - madf

10 year warranty of Toyota hybrid batteries.

Renault : 2 years or 100k miles..

Says it all.

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Sat 21 Sep 2019 23:15
Renault Zoe and similar - Electric Car ownership - gordonbennet

Most interesting posts on this, and still no one knows what the govt is going to about clawing back fuel duty and lost VED when the number of electric cars starts to really hit the tax take.

What happens with electric car batteries if they are allowed to go flat for several weeks, or months, this might seem an odd question but there are and have been compounds full of cars sometimes sitting for up to 12 months before being restarted, though 3/6 months is more typical, if left stood standing, yer big girls blouse (you have to be of a certain age :-)), will they like so many lead acid batteries be beyond saving, or can these batteries stand long periods of being discharged without harm...if they have a time limit in due course it is going to completely change the car fleet/rental/lease scene.

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Sun 22 Sep 2019 00:32
Renault Zoe and similar - Electric Car ownership - focussed

"Most interesting posts on this, and still no one knows what the govt is going to about clawing back fuel duty and lost VED when the number of electric cars starts to really hit the tax take"

That's 6 billion in VED plus 28 billion in fuel duty for 2018/19 = 34 billion pounds.

And in addition to the partial loss of that tax take, at some point the electrical distribution and generation network is going to have to be upgraded.to support the EV charging network - at huge cost, which should be charged on to the owners of EV's in some way.

So at some point in the future EV's are going to cease to have the availability of cheap fuel - electricity- and start paying a lot more in VED than they do at the moment and some sort of tax on their fuel - electricity, how is anybody's guess.

Thinking about all this , you do wonder if the UK government has fully thought out this enthusiasm for EV's!

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Sun 22 Sep 2019 10:48
Renault Zoe and similar - Electric Car ownership - madf

"What happens with electric car batteries if they are allowed to go flat for several weeks, or months, this might seem an odd question but there are and have been compounds full of cars sometimes sitting for up to 12 months before being restarted"

Lead acid ones yes.

Lithium ones retain charge much longer than NIMH batteries which in turn are better than leadacid ones.

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Sun 22 Sep 2019 10:55
Renault Zoe and similar - Electric Car ownership - gordonbennet

Lithium ones retain charge much longer than NIMH batteries which in turn are better than leadacid ones.

Thankyou, so they can be left indefinately? even to the point of full discharge, without it affecting their performance or life expectancy? thats very good.

I see that some of the better single use AA type batteries are sold with something like a 10 year shelf life, presumably Ev batteries are simply larger rechargeable versions?, though the AA sized rechargeables (i've given up on TBH) don't keep their charge for very long and discharge without use.

Edited by gordonbennet on 22/09/2019 at 10:56

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Sun 22 Sep 2019 12:32
Renault Zoe and similar - Electric Car ownership - corax
I see that some of the better single use AA type batteries are sold with something like a 10 year shelf life, presumably Ev batteries are simply larger rechargeable versions?, though the AA sized rechargeables (i've given up on TBH) don't keep their charge for very long and discharge without use.

Try something like Panasonic Eneloop. I used the AA versions in some garden ultrasonic detectors. They last for a long time between charges and the new generation claim to retain 70% charge in ten years. For longevity, it's best to charge them slowly.

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Sun 22 Sep 2019 13:06
Renault Zoe and similar - Electric Car ownership - gordonbennet

I read somewhere that Amazon basics very well priced own brand were proving to be decent single use batteries, bough a batch of AA and AAA, and sure enough in our two cordless mouses (can you call multiple computer mouses mice?, i dunno) they are lasting very well indeed, i've got a decent sized pack of both sizes, be interested to know who makes them for Amazon.

If we decide to give rechargeables a go again, i'll look at those Panasonics you mention, ta everso.

Edited by gordonbennet on 22/09/2019 at 13:07

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Sun 22 Sep 2019 14:33
Renault Zoe and similar - Electric Car ownership - expat

Hobbyking have good rechargeable AAs and AAA. They keep their charge as well as Eneloops and are much cheaper. You need to watch their postage charges though and vary your order to get the maximum number of batteries for each level of postage.

If only they did car batteries at similar prices :-)

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Mon 23 Sep 2019 14:25
Renault Zoe and similar - Electric Car ownership - Ethan Edwards

If only triple and double As were suitable for a Prius eh?

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Wed 25 Sep 2019 12:23
Renault Zoe and similar - Electric Car ownership - focussed

Changing the batteries on a Mercedes AA class.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEjTwsfqHOY

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Wed 25 Sep 2019 23:09
Renault Zoe and similar - Electric Car ownership - brettmick
Second those envelop batteries, been using them for years and my old gen ones are still going strong.
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