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Not striking you down in any way here. The main reason apart from freeze protection to change anti-freeze is that the anti-corrosion additives gradually dissipate over time, so can leave parts of the cooling system liable to accelerated corrosion. That's why it's a good idea to buy neat anti-freeze and mix your own 50% coolant, this gives better corrosion protection on components like EGR and oil coolers etc.
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Not striking you down in any way here. The main reason apart from freeze protection to change anti-freeze is that the anti-corrosion additives gradually dissipate over time, so can leave parts of the cooling system liable to accelerated corrosion. That's why it's a good idea to buy neat anti-freeze and mix your own 50% coolant, this gives better corrosion protection on components like EGR and oil coolers etc.
Yes, I'd read about that here so that's exactly why I wanted to put some fresh stuff in
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...... the anti-corrosion additives gradually dissipate over time, so can leave parts of the cooling system liable to accelerated corrosion.
Yes, I'd read about that here so that's exactly why I wanted to put some fresh stuff in.
Don't believe all you read on here. Just think about it - how exactly do these chemicals 'dissipate' in a sealed system? This is a classic example of cod science used by mechanics who might not even have a basic chemistry GCSE to their name to con unsuspecting punters like you to do unnecessary work. Our Focus is nine years older than your Suzuki and its original coolant is just fine. Corrosion cannot take place without oxygen, which once used up cannot be replaced - unless you foolishly change the coolant thus replacing the oxygen-depleted water with a fresh supply. There are some on here who don't even know the difference between the unavailable oxygen in the H2O molecule and the O2 contained in the water!
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...... the anti-corrosion additives gradually dissipate over time, so can leave parts of the cooling system liable to accelerated corrosion.
Yes, I'd read about that here so that's exactly why I wanted to put some fresh stuff in.
Don't believe all you read on here. Just think about it - how exactly do these chemicals 'dissipate' in a sealed system? This is a classic example of cod science used by mechanics who might not even have a basic chemistry GCSE to their name to con unsuspecting punters like you to do unnecessary work. Our Focus is nine years older than your Suzuki and its original coolant is just fine. Corrosion cannot take place without oxygen, which once used up cannot be replaced - unless you foolishly change the coolant thus replacing the oxygen-depleted water with a fresh supply. There are some on here who don't even know the difference between the unavailable oxygen in the H2O molecule and the O2 contained in the water!
It has an expansion tank which allows air in so is open to air, so the water going through it must oxygenate making it open to corrosion, the system cannot be totally sealed due to expansion and contraction which varies according to temp
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It has an expansion tank which allows air in so is open to air, so the water going through it must oxygenate........
Nonsense. It's not 'open to air'. The modern expansion tank has a pressure cap which only allows steam out in the unlikely event of the coolant boiling. It does not allow air in.
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It has an expansion tank which allows air in so is open to air, so the water going through it must oxygenate........
Nonsense. It's not 'open to air'. The modern expansion tank has a pressure cap which only allows steam out in the unlikely event of the coolant boiling. It does not allow air in.
So how does it allow for contraction?, it would create a vacuum in the expansion tank if that were the case, if you check how the expansion cap works, the air pressure inside the expansion tank is allowed to pass the seal to air, then, as it contracts allows air back in
the amount of air is not much, but over time is enough to warrant changing the coolant, plus, unless some don't do it, if you check your levels by taking the cap off you automatically let air in the tank which your supposed to check every week(I know, most don't and you can see through the tank) but a lot of people do
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You are forgetting that most modern pressure caps on expansion tanks have two valves.
The main pressure valve is the pressure relieving valve set to the pressure value of the cap.
The second small valve is a one way valve that seals pressure in but opens to let air in when the coolant cools down and there is a slight vacuum in the tank.
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These remarks about pressure, expansion and contraction, while valid, are a red herring. The main chemical point is that the common antifreeze component will be ethylene glycol, a fairly simple carbohydrate molecule made of C, H and O. When the engine gets up to working temperature this stuff will be at around 100°C in a solution of variable pH, depending on whether it was diluted with deionised water (or not) and probably with some traces of inorganics from the metal, rubber or plastic circuit. Ethylene glycol is fairly stable but it doesn't last indefinitely.
So (depending on the use of the car) changing it every 2 or 3 years may be worth while in the long run.
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It has an expansion tank which allows air in so is open to air, so the water going through it must oxygenate........
Nonsense. It's not 'open to air'. The modern expansion tank has a pressure cap which only allows steam out in the unlikely event of the coolant boiling. It does not allow air in.
You are forgetting that most modern pressure caps on expansion tanks have two valves.
The main pressure valve is the pressure relieving valve set to the pressure value of the cap.
The second small valve is a one way valve that seals pressure in but opens to let air in when the coolant cools down and there is a slight vacuum in the tank.
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Whilst i don't profess to having serious qualifications in such things as some here no doubt have, i got no further in Physics than an O level B pass, i don't get the urge to not change something like coolant after say 5 years, it's coolant it isn't some precious fluid that's going to cost half a months wages and required some child with no other options in a third world hell hole being paid tuppence a day to retrieve it from the pit, have some perspective.
If the maker of typically good quality coolant state 5 years, and it costs me what? 3 litres of a £15 for a 5 litre tub of Comma 5 year concentrate via Amazon, using good old common sense am i really going to put at risk the whole heating and cooling system plus the insides of my engine for the sake of a tenners worth of coolant and an hour or so flushing then mixing refilling and bleeding air out.
I could understand people trying to get the last knockings out of fluids if they have to rely on a main dealer who's likely to bend them over the desk with ridculous mark ups, but for those us capable and willing to undertake such jobs, why on earth wouldn't you.
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I can only agree with you GB, The only thing I would add is The op may like to get Suzuki to do it, they operate a fixed price scheme and in my experience it's very good value for money.
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I could understand people trying to get the last knockings out of fluids if they have to rely on a main dealer who's likely to bend them over the desk with ridculous mark ups, but for those us capable and willing to undertake such jobs, why on earth wouldn't you.
Several reasons. One, it's unnecessary. Two, running the risk of inadvertently damaging something, e.g. by creating an air lock risking overheating, or breaking a component. Three, wasting your money. Four, wasting your time - although this could be a positive reason for doing it if one enjoys tinkering (as I do). Five, risk of personal injury - skinned fingers etc. Six, polluting the earth with toxic chemicals. Seven, curiosity as to how long original systems will last before needing repair or replacement. Eight, introducing a fresh supply of corrosive oxygen. Nine, the hassle of taking the car to a garage and being without it if you have to employ someone to do it for you.
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I could understand people trying to get the last knockings out of fluids if they have to rely on a main dealer who's likely to bend them over the desk with ridculous mark ups, but for those us capable and willing to undertake such jobs, why on earth wouldn't you.
Several reasons. One, it's unnecessary. Two, running the risk of inadvertently damaging something, e.g. by creating an air lock risking overheating, or breaking a component. Three, wasting your money. Four, wasting your time - although this could be a positive reason for doing it if one enjoys tinkering (as I do). Five, risk of personal injury - skinned fingers etc. Six, polluting the earth with toxic chemicals. Seven, curiosity as to how long original systems will last before needing repair or replacement. Eight, introducing a fresh supply of corrosive oxygen. Nine, the hassle of taking the car to a garage and being without it if you have to employ someone to do it for you.
1, disagree, purely a matter of opinion as to how you view fluids and how they might break down. 2, i wouldn't expect someone incapable of using a screwdriver or clueless about releasing an airlock to do this job anyway. 3, disagree, it's £10 worth of new coolant versus the cost of heating/cooling system and the insides of you engine itself. 4, disagree, again it's down to opinion whether its worth it or not. 5, i wouldn't expect snowflakes or millenials to risk their pinkies, this is a job for someone who doesn't faint if they break a nail. 6, yes you have a point there, and the recycling centres could provide some sort of process for these products. 7, i'm not experimenting with an engine in the region of £7k, and replacing a heater matrix on some cars, notably VW group can be result in half the interior having to come out, even VW group radiators swaps can involve removing the front of the car. 8, irrelevant IMHO. 9, what hassle, no special trip needed, the obvious time is at a service or even better when the cambelt (which on many cars requires water pump renewal) needs replacing.
We differ completely in outlooks about these things John, what has worked for you would not work for me.
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We differ completely in outlooks about these things John, what has worked for you would not work for me.
I am delighted to disagree amicably - although not completely. I share your concern about attending to the heater matrix and its connections; removal of much of the dashboard also applies to my 1980 TR7. However, in nearly forty years I have yet to need to do so - perhaps supporting my assertions on how to avoid corrosion and the importance of the mantra 'if it works, don't mend it'. The CHG has also never needed attention.
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The second small valve is a one way valve that seals pressure in but opens to let air in when the coolant cools down and there is a slight vacuum in the tank.
In theory perhaps, but in practice this will hardly ever happen as when the coolant cools down the positive pressure will merely revert to around equilibrium with the outside world. In the normal course of driving events there will be insufficient pressure change to allow any gas flow at all across the cap - in either direction.
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It has an expansion tank which allows air in so is open to air, so the water going through it must oxygenate........
Nonsense. It's not 'open to air'. The modern expansion tank has a pressure cap which only allows steam out in the unlikely event of the coolant boiling. It does not allow air in.
My understanding is it allows coolant both in and out. Thats why they call it an expansion tank.
It'd only allow air in if the expansion tank was empty, but the coolant sucked back would be oxygenated.
Anyway, if you were correct, and free atmospheric oxygen were necessary for corrosion, the rust I observe in my coolant would not exist.
Which would be nice.
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