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Not sure if the old Skywing has a heater? Some cars I had years ago had a vent valve in the heater hose, which was at a higher level than the radiator top hose, this was the only way to get all the air out when re-filling.
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Not sure if the old Skywing has a heater? Some cars I had years ago had a vent valve in the heater hose, which was at a higher level than the radiator top hose, this was the only way to get all the air out when re-filling.
Thanks. Does have a heater, which I never use, so it may leak or be clogged. Should of course have used it when refilling but I can't remember if I did. Pretty sure no vent valves though.
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apart from letting it clear itself, try raising the car from the side of top hose as some cars are not easy to clear. so I usually jack it up at the front hoping the air will clear
it doesn't always work but worth a try, I know a lot of people try it
Thanks. Should have mentioned that I had it up on jack stands.
There is a loading bay ramp I could drive it onto which would probably give a more extreme angle.
Or both, I suppose, though that might be asking too much of the old handbrake, and/or my nerves. I'll have a look later..
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i always thought it was standard procedure to turn the heating on full blast when bleeding the coolant, you might find this works
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i always thought it was standard procedure to turn the heating on full blast when bleeding the coolant, you might find this works
on some the only way to bleed air is to loosen off the flow and return to heater matrix and hope the pressure pushes the air out, but depends on location of pipes into out the matrix?
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i always thought it was standard procedure to turn the heating on full blast when bleeding the coolant, you might find this works
on some the only way to bleed air is to loosen off the flow and return to heater matrix and hope the pressure pushes the air out, but depends on location of pipes into out the matrix?
Thanks. Don't think the matrix end is very accessible, so I'll probably leave that as plan C, after I've tried more extreme angles and maybe some gentle negative pressure.Thur/Friday after my first weeks classes are done
(Moon Festival, Lots of explosions providing covering fire, since my on-campus car maintenance is rather disapproved of)
Don't want the radiator collapsing on me, which might be a possibility with the fridge pump. Apparently they can pull a substantial vacuum.
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Put it on the loading bay ramp and jacked up the drivers side front. This gives a bigger angle but means a standard funnel iin the rad cap port brims sooner,
Running engine (with heater on) coolant expands into the funnel and almost brims, then the fan kicks in and it retreats into the radiator again, leaving rust rings behind despite multiple flushes when filling
Did this for a few cycles/ Not many bubbles/
On shutting off the engine coolant again expands into the funnel, and then retreats.
I'd guess this is trapped air expanding, rather than the coolant boiling,
Chickened out of disabling the fan to force coolant boil since no head space with the standard funnel. I suppose this might work with the cap on, expanding into the reservoir as designed, but it isn;t clear to me that this cure isnt worse than 'the disease (letting it clear itself).
No mains power reachable in that location so fridge pump negative pressure couldnt be used. I'll either have to do that on the flat, or buy a sink-unblocking syringe
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Put it on the loading bay ramp and jacked up the drivers side front. This gives a bigger angle but means a standard funnel iin the rad cap port brims sooner,
Running engine (with heater on) coolant expands into the funnel and almost brims, then the fan kicks in and it retreats into the radiator again, leaving rust rings behind despite multiple flushes when filling
Did this for a few cycles/ Not many bubbles/
On shutting off the engine coolant again expands into the funnel, and then retreats.
I'd guess this is trapped air expanding, rather than the coolant boiling,
Chickened out of disabling the fan to force coolant boil since no head space with the standard funnel. I suppose this might work with the cap on, expanding into the reservoir as designed, but it isn;t clear to me that this cure isnt worse than 'the disease (letting it clear itself).
No mains power reachable in that location so fridge pump negative pressure couldnt be used. I'll either have to do that on the flat, or buy a sink-unblocking syringe
You may be better off letting the cooling system bleed itself, and flushing doesn't usually clear rust in the system as much as people do try, you can only do so much clearing, and depends how much there is in the system
as it has a rad cap let it sit half on and then try ie don't turn radiator cap full on that usually allows air to expel without losing water, put it this way it used to work on the older non expansion tank rads
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Put it on the loading bay ramp and jacked up the drivers side front. This gives a bigger angle but means a standard funnel iin the rad cap port brims sooner,
Running engine (with heater on) coolant expands into the funnel and almost brims, then the fan kicks in and it retreats into the radiator again, leaving rust rings behind despite multiple flushes when filling
Did this for a few cycles/ Not many bubbles/
On shutting off the engine coolant again expands into the funnel, and then retreats.
I'd guess this is trapped air expanding, rather than the coolant boiling,
Chickened out of disabling the fan to force coolant boil since no head space with the standard funnel. I suppose this might work with the cap on, expanding into the reservoir as designed, but it isn;t clear to me that this cure isnt worse than 'the disease (letting it clear itself).
No mains power reachable in that location so fridge pump negative pressure couldnt be used. I'll either have to do that on the flat, or buy a sink-unblocking syringe
You may be better off letting the cooling system bleed itself, and flushing doesn't usually clear rust in the system as much as people do try, you can only do so much clearing, and depends how much there is in the system ee why it shouldn't
as it has a rad cap let it sit half on and then try ie don't turn radiator cap full on that usually allows air to expel without losing water, put it this way it used to work on the older non expansion tank rads
Thanks, though TBH I can't see how the loose rad cap trick is going to work,
IF it behaves the same as with the funnel, (and I can't see why it shouldnt) it'll overflow on expansion, and then draw air in on contraction, so I'd expect to end up with more air and less coolant in the system.
Going into town to buy a sink syringe. Fridge pump remains a possibility but will require more fiddling about to get it hooked up.
After that fails I'll investigate the heater connections, It MIGHT be worthwhile to put the car on the ramp nose down, but if I do that jacking the rear up will require more serious chocks than the couple of bricks I used last time, since i'll lose the effect of the handbrake.
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Oh wait...I suppose if the cap sucks down and seals on contraction, it might then draw coolant from the reservoir instead of air. That occured to me on the train on the way back, Should have thought it through (or tried it). Might have saved some time, and about a fiver,
Anyway, have a "drain buster" vacuum pump ("WORLDS MOST POWERFUL PLUNGER" Ooer Mrs) to add to my toolkit now, so I'll try that first.
(I once travelled on a London bus with a conventional plumbers suction plunger, which I used for doing laundry in a bucket.
You wouldn't believe the amount of lewd ribaldry that this simple artefact elicited from the Cockney Commuters.
Thankfully, nothing comparable in Taiwan. .If they had such thoughts, they didn't / couldn't express them.).
Edited by edlithgow on 15/09/2019 at 08:31
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Not sure how that went.
I applied + and - pressure to the rad port directly cold, then I did the same via the funnel with the engine running hot, on the flat first time around.
Not many bubbles, so maybe it wasn't doing much, but the expansion seemed less, perhaps implying less trapped air.
Rad cap "half on" there was no leakage up until the fan kicked in, but I dunno if it got any air out.
Not much more light left so I'll leave the ramp for later, assuming it still blows
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i always thought it was standard procedure to turn the heating on full blast when bleeding the coolant, you might find this works
on some the only way to bleed air is to loosen off the flow and return to heater matrix and hope the pressure pushes the air out, but depends on location of pipes into out the matrix?
Thanks. Don't think the matrix end is very accessible, so I'll probably leave that as plan C, after I've tried more extreme angles and maybe some gentle negative pressure.
Er..The heater hoses to the matrix are indeed not very accessible, because there don't seem to be any.
Just call me Master of Understatement.
Or Blind As A Bat
COULD still be missing something, but the engine compartment is fairly spacious (In sharp contrast to god-awful modern cars I've looked at) so I don't see how.
I assume heater functionality, if it has any, is done via the aircon, which isn't AFAIK, connected to the cooling system.
Is this plausible? Never had an aircon equipped car in the UK so don't know what the norm is.
AFAIK this is a Taiwan-only car so it COULD be local weirdness, but I'd be surprised if they deviated greatly from general Daihatsu design norms.
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i always thought it was standard procedure to turn the heating on full blast when bleeding the coolant, you might find this works
on some the only way to bleed air is to loosen off the flow and return to heater matrix and hope the pressure pushes the air out, but depends on location of pipes into out the matrix?
Thanks. Don't think the matrix end is very accessible, so I'll probably leave that as plan C, after I've tried more extreme angles and maybe some gentle negative pressure.
Er..The heater hoses to the matrix are indeed not very accessible, because there don't seem to be any.
Just call me Master of Understatement.
Or Blind As A Bat
COULD still be missing something, but the engine compartment is fairly spacious (In sharp contrast to god-awful modern cars I've looked at) so I don't see how.
I assume heater functionality, if it has any, is done via the aircon, which isn't AFAIK, connected to the cooling system.
Is this plausible? Never had an aircon equipped car in the UK so don't know what the norm is.
AFAIK this is a Taiwan-only car so it COULD be local weirdness, but I'd be surprised if they deviated greatly from general Daihatsu design norms.
Is it possible its been bypassed but not knowing what year the car is cannot get much info on it, is this any help?
www.google.co.uk/search?q=Daihatsu+Skywing+heater+...M:
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Thanks.
Its 1986.
Lot's of stuff there (including some of my posts) but I don't see anything about a heater.
I'm thinking it isn't supposed to have one, though I dunno how likely that is.
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Thanks.
Its 1986.
Lot's of stuff there (including some of my posts) but I don't see anything about a heater.
I'm thinking it isn't supposed to have one, though I dunno how likely that is.
It is possible the engine block and head are machined with ports for heater connections, but for some models these ports are blanked off with plugs. (For many years heaters were an optional extra on UK cars, so this was a common practice).
Not helpful as I don't suppose you can get hold of the right connectors to plumb in hoses, which otherwise could be led to a bucket of water higher than the engine and radiator to hopefully bleed air out as bubbles.
Kudos for your perseverance in preserving an old car with your logistic difficulties.
Edited by galileo on 18/09/2019 at 14:46
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"It is possible the engine block and head are machined with ports for heater connections, but for some models these ports are blanked off with plugs. (For many years heaters were an optional extra on UK cars, so this was a common practice)."
Thanks. I'd forgotten about that. They were well árd in them days
I'm surprised Taiwanese were that hárd in 1986, though.
Admittedly I havn't missed a heater here, but if I'd driven much in the mountains in the not-summer I'd think I would have.
Is it likely the aircon could provide heating? It worked (as a cooler) when I bought the car but I havn't used or maintained it so it'd need some filling and fettling.
"Not helpful as I don't suppose you can get hold of the right connectors to plumb in hoses, which otherwise could be led to a bucket of water higher than the engine and radiator to hopefully bleed air out as bubbles."
I'd be reluctant to remove blanking plugs anyway for fear of creating stubborn leaks.
Next steps are
(a) Apply sink syringe vacuum with car on the ramp/jacked up.
(b) Apply more SERIOUS vacuum using a fridge compressor (will need some plumbing improvisations and caution since it seems ipotentially damaging)
(c) Give up and let it clear itself (also potentially damaging).
Not sure about
(d) Boiling the coolant by disabling the fan.
Seems risky, but it'll happen at idle, which may be less risky than normal operation with an air pocket in the cylinder head.
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I once entertained my kids by boiling a little water in a treacle tin and firmly fitting the lid after turning the hob off. Flattened itself rather completely.
I'd be a bit doubtful about SERIOUS vacuum being applied to the complete cooling system.
Biggest risk is collapsing the radiator top/bottom tanks: hoses will obviously collapse and if old and brittle the inner lining may fragment and partly block flow.
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Yeh, that's a concern, but, as you say, the hoses (replaced a couple of years ago) should collapse first and I could shut off at that point.
I think I'll try boiling the coolant at atmospheric pressure first though. Perhaps not safe, but perhaps safer.
Bit of a pause because I bashed myself in the eye with a steel tube I was using as a jack handle, and I prefer having binocular vision for this sort of thing.
Dressing comes off tomorrow and then I'll see what I can see.
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Couple of thoughts, presumably the car has a thermostat, it might be that the thermostat doesn't not have a small joggle (don't know if that's the right word) valve in the base to allow tiny amounts of water to pass by, which also allows air out, if it doesn't have one it might be an idea to drill a small hole in the thing.
OK so it appears to have no heater hoses, but there must be more hoses for the cooling system than just a top and bottom hose connecting radiator to engine, disconnecting one or more of these would serve two jobs, 1 you can fill the cooling system till its just coolant coming out, disconnecting progressively higher till you reach one that may be higher than the fill point, then 2, this is the one you run the engine and holding the pipe loosely against the fitting allows air to be purged...as Galileo mentions those small bleed screws found in some French coolant pipes were very useful.
Lastly, check from those extra coolant pipes that the water pump is doing its job and hasn't either corroded away or the impeller no longer attached to the spindle as is merely turning over at a slow pace due to friction, further diminishing as it wears, forgive me if this has already been covered as i have only skimmed through.
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Skimming understandable. It is dragging on a bit.
Thermostat was bench tested fairly recently, works, and has one of those jiggle pin thingies.
I've thought of disconnecting hoses but I think I'd be as or more likely to introduce air as get rid of it. Thermostat housing is about the highest point apart from the rad cap.
I THINK the water pump is pumping since I can see turbulent flow down a funnel jammed in the rad fill port when the therostat is open and the fan kicks in, but I havn't dismantled to have a look at it.
I decided I could probably boil coolant one eyed, so I did that this afternoon, pulling the relay to disable the fan.
It boiled when the funnel was almost brimmed, and it did so fairly violently, so I lost quite a lot of coolant.
As the remaining coolant retreated into the radiator with engine off, I topped it up with fresh.
I was going to do a few cycles of this but didn't have enough spare coolant.
If I'd thought of it I could probably have reduced coolant loss by removing some of it while it was expanding into the funnel, before it boiled
You can buy special deep funnels (at least in the US) specially for filling the cooling system, which woulld reduce coolant loss. You probably can't get these in Taiwan but ordinary funnels with a bit more depth might be available, or I MIGHT be able to glue in an extension.
Seems possible Bolts trick, of half-tightening the rad cap, combined with a disabled fan, MIGHT allow it to boil at atmospheric pressure without leaking.
It'd then presumably blow steam (and hopefully air) into the expansion tank
Edited by edlithgow on 22/09/2019 at 03:23
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Update
Took it for a longish run (been minimising use due to a CV boot split, but I did some dodgy "first aid" on that) and there was no sign of blowing from the reservoir.
So it looks as if boiling your coolant is a way of getting stubborn air out of the system.
Unclear if this cure is worse than the disease, though. I'd think not, but if I'm wrong that'll likely be why I've never seen this procedure recommended.
I'd bought a bigger funnel, which doesn't fit the radiator port, but it does (just) fit in the funnel I used previously, so I could "stack" them.
However, if there are no further signs of trapped air I'll leave that for the next coolant change, if there is one.
Edited by edlithgow on 09/10/2019 at 04:57
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