HUGE problem still with phone usage and driving

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Mon 8 Jul 2019 09:23
HUGE problem still with phone usage and driving - Jungerns

Its just simply endemic and off the scale

The penalties must be vastly increased. Immediate 3 year ban on the spot if caught by Police and the car crushed with in addition a £2000 fine.... Rogues gallery in national papers and just watch the usage drop 95% after the 1st month is up as everyone becomes aware.

Secondly motorists catching others via dash cams should be rewarded out of the fines imposed

Its the only way these cretins will take any notice....just sit at any red traffic lights at any time and just watch them glancing down on their laps 24/7

Sick of it and what are these people actually doing ?? Discussing what they had for breakfast on facebook probably

Hit em hard and long

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Mon 8 Jul 2019 10:27
HUGE problem still with phone usage and driving - Avant

"....what are these people actually doing ?? Discussing what they had for breakfast on facebook probably."

That wouldn't be (quite) so bad - but too many of them are discussing business which takes ther concentration away from driving, as well as the physical impediment of holding the phone.

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Mon 8 Jul 2019 10:56
HUGE problem still with phone usage and driving - SLO76
Pet hate of mine this. As a bus driver I see it constantly. Sitting in traffic on the M77 on every trip perched on my vantage point I’ll see dozens of m****s utterly distracted while attempting to drive and furiously texting away or reading mind numbingly pointless posts on Facebook.

I’ve said that the police should copy London and sit officers on buses to catch them red handed. The fines generated on one run between Ayr and Glasgow and back would cover the wages for two of them for a month and put the fear into the imbeciles who still do this.

All new cars should be fitted with technology to block the signal of any phone not connected to a hands free system too. We have laws requiring ABS brakes and traction control so why not this too?
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Mon 8 Jul 2019 11:07
HUGE problem still with phone usage and driving - Bolt

All new cars should be fitted with technology to block the signal of any phone not connected to a hands free system too. We have laws requiring ABS brakes and traction control so why not this too?

Difficult to do now as most are Bluetooth connected not wired as they used to be...

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Mon 8 Jul 2019 13:50
HUGE problem still with phone usage and driving - Theophilus

All new cars should be fitted with technology to block the signal of any phone not connected to a hands free system too.

I have hands-free - but still would not make a call whilst driving as it distracts attention from the road. However blocking phone signals would prevent any passengers from using a phone - I'm not sure this would go down well

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Mon 8 Jul 2019 11:04
HUGE problem still with phone usage and driving - Bolt

just sit at any red traffic lights at any time and just watch them glancing down on their laps 24/7

Not just traffic lights though is it, anytime a car stops at a crossing or lets someone pass a parked car its an excuse to look down at the phone, many a time I`ve raised a hand to thank a driver coming the other way for letting me through a gap, but they are looking down so didn't see it

its become an epidemic now and no one around stop them.....

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Mon 8 Jul 2019 11:14
HUGE problem still with phone usage and driving - SLO76
They’re on camera all the time. The buses all around you are constantly recording it and the police should work with bus companies to use this resource. They’re in regularly to pull recordings when a crime is reported but seem to ignore its potential to stamp out phone use behind the wheel.

The bus companies have a zero tolerance policy with their employees and have stamped it out but we still regularly hear or trucks and vans causing accidents through drivers being distracted by their phones. More effort required by employers and tougher penalties.

Edited by SLO76 on 08/07/2019 at 11:14

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Mon 8 Jul 2019 11:10
HUGE problem still with phone usage and driving - Andrew-T

... watch the usage drop 95% after the 1st month is up as everyone becomes aware.

I can't believe many people are still 'unaware' - it's been discussed for years. As with many other things, the offenders don't accept that an accident will happen to them, and as they are almost certain not to be caught (and even if they are it may be worth doing) they carry on. And multi-tasking is no big deal, is it? Anyone can do it (but usually women ... )

Basically selfish, almost antisocial, behaviour. But policing it effectively is impossible.

Edited by Andrew-T on 08/07/2019 at 11:11

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Mon 8 Jul 2019 13:56
HUGE problem still with phone usage and driving - Jungerns

^^^

Sorry you misunderstood.

What I meant was the public at large becoming aware of the savage penalties involved when they are now caught. Everyone is aware they shouldnt I agree

Why are we so weak on this. Make it tougher. Have a lead in time of 3 months for full public awareness. Then mandatory 5 year driving bans and 3 month mandatory jail sentences from Day 91....

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Mon 8 Jul 2019 14:06
HUGE problem still with phone usage and driving - Hugh Watt

I agree whole-heartedly with the sentiments being expressed in this thread. What puzzles me is that - apart from occasional well-publicised tragic accidents - this m****ic driving behaviour hasn't been reflected in any significant rise in casualties overall.

I'd be happy to be corrected in this. But could it be that using the phone while driving is, objectively, no more dangerous than fiddling with the radio, chatting to a passenger, or eating an apple? It's difficult to know where and how to try to regulate driver behaviour.

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Mon 8 Jul 2019 14:22
HUGE problem still with phone usage and driving - barney100

The laws are there but the Police can't do their job. Not surprising as there are so few of them now. It's easy to tell if someone has been on the phone and is in an accident so the book should be thrown in their direction then.

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Mon 8 Jul 2019 15:00
HUGE problem still with phone usage and driving - 72 dudes

The laws are there but the Police can't do their job. Not surprising as there are so few of them now. It's easy to tell if someone has been on the phone and is in an accident so the book should be thrown in their direction then.

Not if you swallow the sim card as some low life drug dealer did on I'll Gotten Gains this morning when stopped by police!

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Mon 8 Jul 2019 15:09
HUGE problem still with phone usage and driving - Happy Blue!

The worst culprits are young women driving very expensive cars presumably paid for by the boyfriend. They do not have the intelligence to connect the car to bluetooth, so drive around with one hand attached to their ears via a phone....

I see this every day.

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Mon 8 Jul 2019 15:16
HUGE problem still with phone usage and driving - Halmerend
Had a young driver coming towards me on an A road the other day. Weaving all over the place. Thought she was drunk but as she got close, could see that she was probably texting with phone on her lap. If ever I catch my lad doing it......
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Mon 8 Jul 2019 16:55
HUGE problem still with phone usage and driving - Andrew-T
Had a young driver coming towards me on an A road the other day. Weaving all over the place. .

Quite often pass HGVs doing this in the slow lane of the M'way. It's only the rumble strip that puts them back on track. Not sure whether they are playing with a keyboard or just dozing off.

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Mon 8 Jul 2019 15:52
HUGE problem still with phone usage and driving - FP

" But could it be that using the phone while driving is, objectively, no more dangerous than fiddling with the radio, chatting to a passenger, or eating an apple?"

This is dangerously naive. I'm not saying these things are not distracting. However, the range of activities possible on phones mean that banning their use entirely while driving is the only sensible course. Simply having a conversation with the phone against your ear is probably no more distracting than - say - hearing a distraught child on the back seat. But texting most certainly is. And there are many other things that people do on their phones which demand a lot of attention and are therefore hugely distracting.

It's not possible to differentiate between them and that's why banning the use of hand-held phones is the only way to go.

Edited by FP on 08/07/2019 at 15:52

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Mon 8 Jul 2019 16:51
HUGE problem still with phone usage and driving - Snakey

Another part of the problem is our countries obsession with creating queues! I sit at some stupid new traffic lights every day, previously when it was a normal roundabout I would be through in a couple of minutes. Now if I hit a red light there its a long long wait - and this is when I see most people start to pick up their phones out of sheer boredom.

There's also a massive difference between idly glancing at your phone whilst stuck in a queue to trying to text at 70mph.

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Mon 8 Jul 2019 17:01
HUGE problem still with phone usage and driving - oldroverboy.

There's also a massive difference between idly glancing at your phone whilst stuck in a queue to trying to text at 70mph.

There's also a massive difference between idly glancing at your phone whilst "stopped" in a queue "handbrake on" to trying to text at 70mph.

The fines and points should be graduated more severely, There is no deterrent effect.

Imagine £300 and six points, plus mandatory awareness course then next time

Imagine £500 and six points and six month ban automatic, then

Imagine £1000 and automatic 1 year ban if repeated within time points on licence.. (3 years?)

Then retake driving test!

In fact anyone getting to 12 points = Automatic retest.

When penalties are painful, it makes people think and it changes behaviour.

Edited by oldroverboy. on 08/07/2019 at 17:03

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Mon 8 Jul 2019 20:10
HUGE problem still with phone usage and driving - Hugh Watt

" But could it be that using the phone while driving is, objectively, no more dangerous than fiddling with the radio, chatting to a passenger, or eating an apple?"

This is dangerously naive.

Feel free to call me naive, FP, and you can freely speculate on which activities are more distracting. I'm querying - perhaps you didn't notice? - whether this stuff is actually reflected in accident figures, not recommending tolerance of it.

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Tue 9 Jul 2019 10:23
HUGE problem still with phone usage and driving - FP

"... you can freely speculate on which activities are more distracting. I'm querying - perhaps you didn't notice? - whether this stuff is actually reflected in accident figures, not recommending tolerance of it."

Indeed you did query whether "this stuff" (meaning use of phones?) is reflected in accident figures. I noticed that, but what really caught my attention was that you were/are also querying whether the use of phones is more dangerous than certain other activities.

I suggested it's not a good idea to equate the two and explained why. It strikes me that texting while driving, for example, is a lot more dangerous, because it is far more distracting, than eating an apple.

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Mon 8 Jul 2019 18:53
HUGE problem still with phone usage and driving - Avant

"Had a young driver coming towards me on an A road the other day. Weaving all over the place. "

Weaving while driving is even more frightening than phoning - could he see through the loom?

I suppose that's one occasion where weaving comes before spinning. :)

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Tue 9 Jul 2019 01:44
HUGE problem still with phone usage and driving - Bilboman

First offence: confiscate the wretched phone and its SIM card. Second offence: confiscate the phone and the car for a month, minimum. If it ever gets to a third offence, time for a huge fine, suspended prison sentence and community service including attendance at an autopsy of an accident victim.

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Tue 9 Jul 2019 10:23
HUGE problem still with phone usage and driving - Andrew-T

First offence: confiscate the wretched phone and its SIM card. Second offence: confiscate the phone and the car for a month, minimum. If it ever gets to a third offence, time for a huge fine, suspended prison sentence and community service including attendance at an autopsy of an accident victim.

All excellent suggestions. But as the offenders well know, they need to be caught first. Odds are in their favour, so they continue.

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Tue 9 Jul 2019 08:33
HUGE problem still with phone usage and driving - Leif

"Had a young driver coming towards me on an A road the other day. Weaving all over the place. "

Weaving while driving is even more frightening than phoning - could he see through the loom?

I suppose that's one occasion where weaving comes before spinning. :)

Did the police cotton on to what he was doing? It must have made an interesting yarn back at the station. Anyway, back to the thread.

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Tue 9 Jul 2019 09:25
HUGE problem still with phone usage and driving - Jungerns

Coming back from Gatwick last week to Devon geezer overtook me on the M3. I had cruise on at 70mph as traffic had thinned and this guy must have been at 90mph at least with his phone pinned to his left ear. Just unreal....

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Tue 9 Jul 2019 11:45
HUGE problem still with phone usage and driving - focussed

The French are considering confiscation of the driver's licence for phone use while driving.

It's not clear at the moment for how long for, but if brought in would only apply in conjunction with another offence, such as running a red light, not stopping at a pedestrian crossing when in use etc.

The current rules on phone use mean that if you use a phone while sitting in the driver's seat in a car, even if it stopped, engine not running, parked etc the offence is still committed. A little silly that one in my opinion.

Another point to note is that hands - free earpiece attachments are totally not allowed, but loudspeaker hands free is ok

For motorcyclists, in-helmet speakers giving phone use, GPS directions and possibly playing music via bluetooth are limited to one speaker only, not two as most UK kits come with. The degree of enforcement of that one is probably not high.

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Tue 9 Jul 2019 15:49
HUGE problem still with phone usage and driving - Terry W

I think phone use whilst driving is potentally dangerous, but swingeing punishments would be completely disproportionate compared to other generally higher risk motoring offences.

If statistics are to be believed, accidents are the consequence of other factors, alcohol, tiredness, lighting up, changing sat nav, fiddling with music (radia, CDs, bluetooth etc), poor eyesight etc etc.

Logic would suggest a similar punishment regime for all of these bits of stupidity, with punishment depending on whether an incident actually occurred or may potentially have occured.

Police fores are underresourced with arguably more important things to worry about. In car technology could be mandated which wold disable the vehicle if the systems detected a non-compliance, then call the boys in blue to issue fines, lock up offenders etc accordingly.

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Tue 9 Jul 2019 16:28
HUGE problem still with phone usage and driving - Bromptonaut

The current 6 point/£200 and no 'improvement course' option seems proportionate to me. The law has seen fit to define it as an offence in it's own right without the defence wriggle room provided for in careless or not in full control type offences.

Once upon a time all these cases would have gone before a magistrate and been assiduously written up in the local paper. Nowadays they're mostly dealt with a fixed penalties and the local court reporter is an extinct species.

Can't help thinking that if names etc of those accepting FPN's were published locally every week it would deter as (a) name/shame and (b) there might be enough in a week to make people think risk of being caught was greater than nil.

It would also make sense to send Coppers or PCSO's out on pushbikes to run through urban traffic jams looking for offenders. If my ride to/from work is anything to go by they'd catch 'em like flies.

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Tue 9 Jul 2019 20:37
HUGE problem still with phone usage and driving - Middleman

Imagine £1000 and automatic 1 year ban if repeated within time points on licence.

You cannot receive a ban and points for a single offence. It's one or t'other. A major change in Road Traffic legislation would be needed to enable this.

Edited by Middleman on 09/07/2019 at 20:37

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Wed 10 Jul 2019 23:58
HUGE problem still with phone usage and driving - Smileyman

Some modern in car systems manage texts too, whilst bluetooth bluetooth linked to my mobile using the multi function screen built into the car I can make and receive calls using pre stored or dialled numbers and receive texts that are read out for mr, or even compose then send text messages. All without touching the phone. However using the screen is a distraction so only marginally safer than holding a handset.Somewhere there is a voice control system to make calls too.

I don't have android auto so can't comment on what other tasks could be accomplished surfing the net comes to mind?

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Thu 11 Jul 2019 01:23
HUGE problem still with phone usage and driving - Ethan Edwards

Let's look at this another way.

This law isnt enforced.

The majority of people break it.

Given the above it's not doing what was intended.

Repeal it and try another approach. Perhaps something along the lines of the clunk click campaign . All this law appears to have done is created scoff laws. Where people happily disrespect one law it makes it easier to disrespect others.

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Thu 11 Jul 2019 12:40
HUGE problem still with phone usage and driving - Middleman

Some modern in car systems manage texts too, whilst bluetooth bluetooth linked to my mobile using the multi function screen built into the car I can make and receive calls using pre stored or dialled numbers and receive texts that are read out for mr, or even compose then send text messages.

As I've said in the past, the person who came up with the idea of installing a multi-menu touch screen device which is accessible to a person driving a car needs to be locked up.

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Thu 11 Jul 2019 17:39
HUGE problem still with phone usage and driving - Terry W

With current speech recognition software (eg:: alexa) there is no reason to look at a screen - we should simply be able to tell it what to do. The conversation (all feasible with current technologies) may go something like this:

Alexa - email received from Fred

You - read it to me

Alexa .....................

You - please reply as follows .................. and send a copy to Steve

You - please set up follow up reminder for Friday

You - please set up meeting with Steve urgently

GPS can track vehicle speed to ensure compliance with limits and/or road conditions

On board diagnostics can monitor tiredness, erratic driving etc and act accordingly

And when driverless arrives none of this will matter anyway. All done in the name of road safety and climate change. Petrol headery (??) will soon be a thing of the past known only to those over the age of 40!

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Thu 11 Jul 2019 21:08
HUGE problem still with phone usage and driving - Smileyman

As I've said in the past, the person who came up with the idea of installing a multi-menu touch screen device which is accessible to a person driving a car needs to be locked up.

Some functions should be restricted when the engine is running unless there is a front seat passenger present

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Thu 11 Jul 2019 18:13
HUGE problem still with phone usage and driving - Manatee

I agree it's endemic.

If it was half as dangerous as they tell us, we would be knee deep in bodies. Instead, road deaths have gone steadily down from about 8,000 in 1966 to under 1,800 in 2018. It's true that the total has been pretty level since around 2010, so perhaps an increase in phone-related accidents has prevented a further reduction.

We have one of the lowest traffic-related death rates in the world. The USA has proportionately about four times the level.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate

It just doesn't add up.

It seems to me that it is about distraction. It's possible to do distracting things more or less carefully. I haven't hit anything since 1991, and that was a touch in a traffic queue at about half walking pace because I was looking in a shop window or something like that. I used to drive a lot in working time and spend hours on the phone while driving (admittedly hands free) and never had even a near miss.

I find people in the car the most distracting thing.

I have no problem with the law as it stands. I put the phone in a bracket (I use it for navigation) but I will answer a call hands free. I think the penalties are probably about right.

We all have our hobby horses. I'd shoot all the people who can't be bothered to learn when to put an apostrophe in 'its'.

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Thu 11 Jul 2019 22:16
HUGE problem still with phone usage and driving - daveyjp
Just driven up the M1 At M18 junction car pulled in front and slammed on for no reason. I overtook and he was holding his phone on top of the steering wheel texting away.

However there was some karma.

A little later an aggressive BMW driver doing 80+ in the outside land harrassing drivers in front, when he passed me I saw him looking down into his lap, one hand off the wheel. Classic phone useage.

He disappeared. A few miles later it was lashing it down, horrendous storm. Lots of slow down warnings,

I noticed a car in the thankfully wide central reservation areas with the front end smashed to pieces. It was Mr BMW.

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Sun 14 Jul 2019 18:21
HUGE problem still with phone usage and driving - Smileyman

Whilst I do not rejoice at another person's misfortune for the sake of the safety of all road users I hope Mr Plod gets a grip of this driver's collar with an appropriate outcome.

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Fri 12 Jul 2019 12:38
HUGE problem still with phone usage and driving - edlithgow

Long time ago I was riding my motorcycle behind a Taiwanese scootababe when she gave a hand signal before turning left.

I was so astonished I followed her.

I think I had some half-formed idea of raising a mob of kids with some sense of road safety, which would be a Taiwan first.

Turned out she was just waving her smartphone around to try and get a signal.

Phone use while driving is entirely legal and universal here. Yáll aint seen nuthin.

Come to think on't I've more than once been a passenger in a car here where the driver was watching a Korean soap opera on the screen display that I guess is intended for the GPS (though I don't know much about modern cars)

I'd suspect that might be illegal even in Taiwan, though I dunno about enforcement.

Edited by edlithgow on 12/07/2019 at 12:46

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Sat 13 Jul 2019 12:45
HUGE problem still with phone usage and driving - Bilboman

There seems to be an endless cycle of "life gets simpler" - "life gets more complicated." Go back a generation and a driver would be looking at a huge folded map spread out on the steering wheel - whilst still driving around lost. Then along came satnav. Then satnav migrated to a hand held mobile. Then satnav became voice-operated. And as the driver doesn't have to wrestle with a large map any more, s/he has hands free to tap on the car's touchscreen, or play games, send WhatsApps or scroll through a music collection or whatever on the phone's screen. Or else do it all by voice control. Either way, concentration is reduced to a bare minimum.
All this time, however, car safety has improved and accidents, injuries and deaths decrease (although near-misses are off the scale!), emboldening drivers to immerse themselves in their digital world and leave the car to switch the lights on, change gear, steer, keep to the lane, slow down, brake and even park all by itself.

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Sat 13 Jul 2019 21:12
HUGE problem still with phone usage and driving - Bolt

Yáll aint seen nuthin

I think we will see it all if it carries on the way it is, most new cars are now tolerant of a few mistakes, and do the driving for you even if they are close shaves, it seems people don't mind how close they come to a bad accident but just miss because the car has taken over, which doesn't happen on older cars

I now see more drivers looking at phones and have them to their ear than I have ever done before, which also means they are slow in moving away from traffic lights, crossings, and even roundabouts as it takes them a few seconds to respond to whats going on around them

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Sat 13 Jul 2019 22:25
HUGE problem still with phone usage and driving - snufflegrunt

I don't care what people do, such as use their phone as long as their driving exceeds an expected standard. Some people are good at multitasking and some people are terrible. If someone can drive brilliantly and alert while on the phone fine. If someone doesn't have their phone in the car but is a danger then that needs addressing. Deal with the driving standards and skills, not inanimate objects and 'gas-lighting'. Seems daft that people who don't crash are scorned because they check the weather or take a snap but those who DO crash are given all tea and sympathy and told it is just an accident and not their fault.

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Sun 14 Jul 2019 16:38
HUGE problem still with phone usage and driving - Bilboman

Following snufflegrunt's logic, a "competent" multi-tasking driver whose driving "exceeds an expected standard" (whatever that means) should be free to carry out any or all of the following activities whilst driving:
playing with a smartphone; having a conversation on that phone hand-held; listening to music through earphones; wearing sunglasses at night; driving stark naked; having a huge level of alcohol and drugs in the system; steering with the feet.*
(*I did once come across a quad bike driver who seemed to be doing most of the above simultaneously whilst on hoiday on a Greek island one year, but I digress.)
The point is, all of the above are ILLEGAL and they are illegal because society has deemed them to be dangerous, and so there is a blanket ban on all drivers, regardless of their purported multitasking skills. Ditto the inattentive driver who has a smash and who may or may not get done for a driving offence afterwards.

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Sun 14 Jul 2019 16:53
HUGE problem still with phone usage and driving - gordonbennet

Snufflegrunt's post is a welcome relief from the hang 'em high theme running through this thread.

Sadly this is 2019, all are equal though some more equal than others and all less equals must be dumbed down to the lowest bar possible, if that isn't low enough we'll lower it a bit more, society it appears welcoming all that this entails with open arms and not just regarding motoring.

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Sun 14 Jul 2019 18:40
HUGE problem still with phone usage and driving - Smileyman

Certainly looking for the common high not common low is great, problem is far too many overestimate their skills and ability, and when driving a car getting it wrong in finding one's sweet spot can lead to disastrous, possibly life changing or fatal outcomes (generally for others). Human life is too precious, injuries cannot always be repaired, hence the need to change habits.

Annoyingly far too many motorists have yet to learn this. Even something simple like changing gear can be a distraction, one hand off the steering wheel for a few seconds, holding a phone whilst driving is a greater degree of distraction. With a hands free situation the driver's thoughts are split, and for some that will be too much.

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