After reading HJ’s suggestion I gave it a shot thinking that it does make sense but despite being a very experienced driver (I drive 50ft coaches on a daily basis) I couldn’t get my left foot to cooperate. It just wanted to hit the brake as if it was a clutch pedal. I get the thinking and with enough practice I’m sure I’d get it but I wouldn’t recommend it to anyone who lacks confidence and coordination and I certainly wouldn’t recommend it to an elderly driver who may get confused, I think it’s more likely to cause an accident than prevent it.
Left foot for brake was often used in a garage for parking, as the time it took to move foot from accelerator to brake would have been time enough to hit the car behind or in front as garage space was minimal
I did get used to it while driving autos and never had a problem, but as you mention not advisable for some people
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The only times i've ever tried LFB, or needed it, was with extreme close maneuvering loading cars on a transporter.
If more drivers generally didn't treat the accelerator pedal like and on/off switch this wouldn't be an issue anyway with the vast majority of cars, though it must be said even the most experienced and careful drivers who 'feel' what is happening under their feet can struggle to get used to the way some of the automated manual and dual clutch gearboxes engage drive.
As the OP mentions, you would have to be the India Rubber Man (remember him?) to be able to use your left foot for braking in all the automatic lorries i've driven in recent years, if LFB was such a revelation lorry makers would be designing things differently.
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I'll agree with GB on the automated manual subject.
I have gone from a alison 6 speet TC auto to a ZF as-tronic light gear box (I call it the ass-tronic) no matter how smooth you try to be or gentle with the controls its jerky and unpredictable and gets confused very easily.
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A nonagenarian might confuse the accelerator with the brake.....because the US Model T Ford and the UK 'Bullnose' Morris had the brake pedal on the right......and because very early memories predominate in dementia......
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A nonagenarian might confuse the accelerator with the brake.....because the US Model T Ford and the UK 'Bullnose' Morris had the brake pedal on the right......and because very early memories predominate in dementia......
So that means I'll always remember how to double declutch?
How quaint! :-)
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Every time I read about this debate I really don't get what all the fuss is about. I use either foot to brake pretty much randomly in an auto, and my right foot in a manual. So does my wife come to think.
Never give it any thought. But, I've always assumed that's why the brake pedal in an auto is wider, so that you can easily use or access it with either foot depending on your mood, preference or set of circumstances in which you're using it?
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But, I've always assumed that's why the brake pedal in an auto is wider, so that you can easily use or access it with either foot depending on your mood, preference or set of circumstances in which you're using it?
I always understood that the wide brake pedal in an auto was so that both feet could be used in an emergency stop. Presumably in 'the old days' servo assistance was less or non-existent. On the very rare occasions that I drive an auto (usually a hire car abroad) I have once or twice done that, shaking everyone up inside and causing some aggro to following drivers .... :-)
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I brake left-footed, fill up with Shell and run on Michelins - surely I shall enter the Promised Land.
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I brake left-footed, fill up with Shell and run on Michelins - surely I shall enter the Promised Land.
Especially in a Honda Jazz 1.5 Sport or a Pug 2008 1.2 Puretech 130 with the 6 speed TC auto box and Grip Control.
Edited by Engineer Andy on 26/05/2019 at 19:57
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I'm convinced that if cars were being invented from scratch today, a consensus on design would quickly be reached involving something like left foot for brake and right foot for accelerator, with a division in the footwell so that one foot only ever has one function.
As many have said, the danger with automatics seems to occur with drivers who change from manual to auto late in their driving lives. The critical moment of maximum danger is the moment the driver presses the accelerator by mistake, shoots forwards or backwards at great speed and presses that same pedal harder with the often lethal consequences.
The figure of 100 pedestrian deaths a year attributed to the phenomenon is indeed alarming, but perhaps the eventual standardisation of emergency autonomous braking will actually help to eradicate this. In the meantime, surely it is not beyond the wit of car manufacturers to establish standards of size, shape, height, positioning and spacing of pedals in all cars? What about a raised triangular shape in the middle of the brake pedal, or a circle on the accelerator pedal? Or both?
Countless unavoidable tragedies are caused by drivers momentarily losing control (heart attacks, seizures), but most avoidable collisions are caused by the human errors of distraction (touchscreens, in-car "communication"), misjudging size, position or angle (blindspots in bloated SUVs) or simply making a mistake with new gizmos such as electronic parking brakes.
Edited by Bilboman on 26/05/2019 at 23:20
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The only times i've ever tried LFB, or needed it, was with extreme close maneuvering loading cars on a transporter.
If more drivers generally didn't treat the accelerator pedal like and on/off switch this wouldn't be an issue anyway with the vast majority of cars, though it must be said even the most experienced and careful drivers who 'feel' what is happening under their feet can struggle to get used to the way some of the automated manual and dual clutch gearboxes engage drive.
I struggled with very close manoeuvring when I first got a DSG, the last few centimetres felt quite scary and left foot braking just felt plain wrong. I eventually got the hang of it, well sort of. After having the car for a couple of years I discovered that the self parking system will not let you hit anything even when parking manually. It disengages drive and applies the brakes. I asked the wife to stand in front of the car so I could test it, she refused so I tried it with a cardboard box and sure enough the car stops within 5 to 10cm of a solid object. It gives me a bit more confidence and in general I love the DSG and electronic hand brake.
Joking about the wife if there was any doubt.
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When I bought my first (and hopefully last) automatic car (Ford Sierra DOHC 2L) here in Taiwan, I did the two-foot thing on the test drive, because it seemed the obvious thing to do, and I didn't know any different.
The seller and his mate were horrified.
"You must NOT to do this!" "This very very dangerous!"
If Taiwanese drivers disapprove of a practice, it must have something going for it
Edited by edlithgow on 27/05/2019 at 11:01
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When I bought my first (and hopefully last) automatic car (Ford Sierra DOHC 2L) here in Taiwan, I did the two-foot thing on the test drive, because it seemed the obvious thing to do, and I didn't know any different.
The seller and his mate were horrified.
"You must NOT to do this!" "This very very dangerous!"
If Taiwanese drivers disapprove of a practice, it must have something going for it
back in the 80s, Fords who I worked for at the time, Fiestas and Escorts had a tendency to snatch and creep on autos which as far as I know Fords never corrected
which meant as parking in there car parks was extremely tight, if the car when selecting a gear snatched into drive they always crept either forwards or backwards so you had to use both feet to control the creep otherwise you would hit the car either in front or rear.
I also know some drivers who do use one foot per pedal and have no problems, but then if you have enough practice you can do most things your not supposed to!
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back in the 80s, Fords who I worked for at the time, Fiestas and Escorts had a tendency to snatch and creep on autos which as far as I know Fords never corrected
Fords first foray into CVT boxes, true to type it wasn't much use even when it worked.
I remember delivering a used Fiesta CVT to a dealer in the east of England, the snidey sales bod boasted he would soon unload that dreadful thing onto some 'old dear', twerp.
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Would be interesting to know if people who learn to drive on autos and stick to them go on to become lethal in old age. Perhaps swapping from a manual to an auto should require some compulsory lessons to get the hang of it - maybe too draconian?
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Our late ex-neighbour was an unpleasant old Scot (like me).
He had a manual Ka parked across his front driveway. He decided to drive in his baffies (slippers) one day. He powered across his garden, through a shrubbery and accross the neighbours rockery. He was unrepentant and unapologetic to said neighbour. His written off Ka was replaced by an identical spec. one a week after.
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Our late ex-neighbour was an unpleasant old Scot (like me).
He had a manual Ka parked across his front driveway. He decided to drive in his baffies (slippers) one day. He powered across his garden, through a shrubbery and accross the neighbours rockery. He was unrepentant and unapologetic to said neighbour. His written off Ka was replaced by an identical spec. one a week after.
Unpleasant-old-Scot-syndrome perhaps, but I've been driving barefoot for so long now that I'm not altogether confident driving shod, and probably not altogether safe either.
Helps that I can mostly wear Crocs here, apart from when walking in rough terrain, or teaching, when I wear Taiwanese Army (blackboard) jungle boots.
Speed zips attached to the lace holes help with these.
Edited by edlithgow on 28/05/2019 at 07:15
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“Fords first foray into CVT boxes, true to type it wasn't much use even when it worked.
I remember delivering a used Fiesta CVT to a dealer in the east of England, the snidey sales bod boasted he would soon unload that dreadful thing onto some 'old dear', twerp.”
God awful things were Ford’s early CVT’s. Our group buyer liked to buy small autos, there was less demand from other dealers and the type of buyer was usually older, well heeled and less interested or able to bargain. Usually an easy and profitable sale was had. But I used to try and steer older drivers away from Ford Fiesta, Escort and Fiat Uno CVT’s. They didn’t creep on zero throttle and would lurch forward or back when you tried to move slowly during manoeuvring/parking. I found them dangerous for drivers who lacked confidence, reflexes and skill. Highly inappropriate for the elderly on most cases.
I tried instead to get them into Vauxhall, Honda or Mitsubishi autos all of which were fine and rarely went wrong. Special status goes to Rover with the K series Metro CVT which was the first genuinely good CVT I drove. Went like stink and was easy to drive too. Shame they never rust treated the things at all.
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What about the DAF Variomatic ? Now that was a cracker.
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What about the DAF Variomatic ? Now that was a cracker.
Yeh, I'd rather like one of them. If I end up back in the Yook I might try and get one.
I had a video link of one doing trials - the traditional muddy hill ascent - and it looked pretty unstoppable.
{Lost it though. Think it might have been on the sadly defunct Bangernomics Forum)
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I used to marshal on one of the classic long distance trials. I recall a late model DAF attempting a hill near Monsal Dale. IIRC it could not get moving as one of the belts had failed previously.
A good idea in principle and a precursor to the cvt.
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“What about the DAF Variomatic ? Now that was a cracker.”
Before my time, I’m just a youngster.
I did have the misfortune of trying a close relative though in the form of a Volvo 340 1.4 automatic which was a total pig of a thing. Screaming it’s head off all the time, slow, uneconomical and heavy to steer also had no creep either. All in all a terrible option for the elderly people who bought the things.
I’m guessing the lighter DAF (which used the same gearbox and later models shared the same engine) was better. My parents had one from new and spoke highly of it.
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