Multiple - Thoughts / opinions on the listed car ads

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Fri 1 Mar 2019 00:29
Multiple - Thoughts / opinions on the listed car ads - eustace

I have listed a couple of cars that I am considering purchasing. Please can you give me your thoughts / opinions on them...

The first 2 are Honda Jazzes. The other 3 are Avensi(s)? All from private sellers.

1) www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/20190206465...5

The car seems competitively priced compared to others in a 50 mile radius. But is the dent on the boot door something to be concerned about? Is it only cosmetic, or could it potentially result in corrosion or other issues, further down the line.

2) www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/20190211483...7

Another Auto Honda Jazz.

I don't particularly require an automatic. But I am open to a change, after driving manuals for the last 22 years. Also I understand that in theory a CVT gearbox can provide optimal fuel economy, that cannot be easily matched by an average driver. And that it is the latest technology. Also it has a paddle shift over-ride, without the drawbacks of the automated manuals.

I also understand from HJ's car by car review on the 2nd gen Jazz, that the early second gen cars also had the same bearing issues on the manual transmission, that the first gen cars had.

3) www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/20190222521...8

A 2009 manual Avensis with full service history. Haven't spoken to the seller.

4) www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/20190210479...1

A 2011 manual Avenis. I spoke to the seller. Only first 3 services were done by Toyota. Rest by a local garage.

5) www.gumtree.com/p/toyota/toyota-avensis-tr-cvt-aut...3

A 2010 CVT auto Avensis. I e-mailed the owner. The car was serviced by Toyota upto 50,000 miles. Of the last 3 services, the first 2 were done by Halford motor centre, and the last by Kwik-fit. The owner does not know if the transmission fluid has ever been changed. (The car used to belong to her husband).

For the Avensis, I think the auto would be a better choice than the manual; one because of the better fuel economy of CVT and, two because of the EPB in the Avensis. With an auto transmission, I suppose you can avoid using the parking brake while stopped in traffic, and use the park mode on the auto transmission.

Also I'm not sure how convenient a one touch release parking brake is with a manual transmission. I understand that the parking brake can be allowed to auto release. But this I understand also places additional strain on the clutch.

I am looking for feedback on my choice of cars, but more importantly on the actual examples I have shortlisted. If you had to choose from the above list, what would be your ranking of preferences. Also any thoughts on the asking prices, and what would be a reasonable price to offer / close.

If we buy the Jazz, it will become my wife's car and I continue to use the Focus.

If we buy the Avensis, it becomes my car, and the Focus goes to the wife...

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Fri 1 Mar 2019 08:26
Multiple - Thoughts / opinions on the listed car ads - catsdad
The first Jazz ad reads like a trader in disguise. "Drives superb". As for selling on behalf of an emigrated friend, caution needed. The dent has not been sorted as I guess its on a double skinned area where you can't do a smart repair. From a similar dent we had on one of our cars you are looking at £500-£700 if you want it done. It may be cheaper to get a whole second hand tailgate.

The Avensises all look better subject to the usual checks. I had one and hated the handbrake but you would be going in with your eyes open.

Edited by catsdad on 01/03/2019 at 08:27

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Fri 1 Mar 2019 10:44
Multiple - Thoughts / opinions on the listed car ads - eustace

Thanks, Catsdad! Good insight about the potential trader, regarding the first ad. I'll keep that in mind.

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Fri 1 Mar 2019 12:23
Multiple - Thoughts / opinions on the listed car ads - badbusdriver

The problem with forum members, and indeed yourself, trying to assess the condition of those cars, is the pictures. Either through poor quality or having the car situated somewhere in shadow or with inconsistent light such as the first Jazz and the first two Avensis. Or through simply not having enough pictures, such as the second Jazz and third Avensis.

I agree with Catsdad re the first Jazz, going on about how well the car has been looked after when there is a nasty dent in the tailgate and the rear towing point cover appears to have been ripped off (no mention of either in the description). It sets off alarm bells for me!. As for the risk of corrosion on the tailgate?, if the paint surface has been broken there is a very high risk of corrosion, otherwise it should be OK. The second Jazz looks lovely from what we can see (assuming you like the colour), but there just isn't enough pictures. Maybe not an issue if you live nearby, but i'd be very reluctant to travel any distance to see the car because of this.

The first two Avensis, i realise it is not easy showing up a dark coloured car, but again, very difficult to make a judgement on the condition based on those pics. The first one looks to have some paintwork damage to the front bumper cover, but it is only a plastic cover so no corrosion concerns. The third one, like the second Jazz, is hampered by the lack of pictures. I'd also be a little concerned about the Halfords and Quick Fit servicing as some of these places have pretty horrendous reputations for various reasons. Obviously they are not all bad, but it would put me off unless i knew the branches in question had a good reputation or good reviews from customers.

As for the choice of transmission, i have no experience of the Avensis CVT, but we have a current shape Jazz CVT which we have had since about May 2017. I was wary going for the CVT based on what i had read in the motoring press and on various forums (including this one), where they are almost universally derided. I won't go into details here, suffice to say i am very glad indeed i decided to go for it!. The transmission in the two you in your links appear to be the same 'CVT7' as ours, where you have 7 electronically stepped 'ratios', to mimic a good conventional auto or a DCT type box.

One last thing, i know SLO often says it is a good idea to look for privately owned cars, but i think this is more for the bottom of the food chain, with cars up to about £2.5k. You should be reasonably safe buying cars at around £5k from a dealer with a good reputation.

Edited by badbusdriver on 01/03/2019 at 12:26

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Fri 1 Mar 2019 12:28
Multiple - Thoughts / opinions on the listed car ads - Gibbo_Wirral

"Selling on behalf of friend who has emigrated"

Yeah, right.

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Fri 1 Mar 2019 12:45
Multiple - Thoughts / opinions on the listed car ads - eustace

Thanks for your detailed reply, BBD!

I did visit a couple of dealers and looked at their cars last weekend. Including an SX4 that was priced at £7K. However most of the cars were very poorly prepared. They had untreated paint chips and some had patchy service history, despite being advertised as "with service history". Some of the cars weren't even valeted.

The dealer justified it by saying "I did not say full service history". Or they say that they will prepare it further after I put down a deposit on the car.

Based on that experience, I thought I would focus on privately available cars, as at-least I can see the previous owners and quiz them on the service history or any past problems. And also perhaps get it cheaper than buying through a dealer...

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Fri 1 Mar 2019 13:26
Multiple - Thoughts / opinions on the listed car ads - badbusdriver

Thanks for your detailed reply, BBD!

I did visit a couple of dealers and looked at their cars last weekend. Including an SX4 that was priced at £7K. However most of the cars were very poorly prepared. They had untreated paint chips and some had patchy service history, despite being advertised as "with service history". Some of the cars weren't even valeted.

The dealer justified it by saying "I did not say full service history". Or they say that they will prepare it further after I put down a deposit on the car.

Based on that experience, I thought I would focus on privately available cars, as at-least I can see the previous owners and quiz them on the service history or any past problems. And also perhaps get it cheaper than buying through a dealer...

Unfortunately that is just the nature of the beast that is used car sales. The places you visited were obviously not the most conscientious!. I wasn't suggesting you should ignore private sales, just that there are pro's and cons for both. If buyind privately at the lower end of the price range the fact thet you will have effectively no comeback should anything go wrong is not such a big issue if buying a £1k Focus. But £5k is quite a lot of money for some people, and some of the cars at this price range could be quite sophisticated, which in turn means that if something or other fails you could end up with a big bill and no comeback. Obviously looking at cars know to be very reliable such as the two you have concentrated on will reduce the risk, but it is still there!. Buying from a well respcted garage with good reviews (Autotrader show these along with the garage details) will, or should, give you a measure of comeback should the worst happen. And a well respected garage should be reasonably keen to help in order not to sully their reputation.

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Fri 1 Mar 2019 14:03
Multiple - Thoughts / opinions on the listed car ads - Heidfirst

For the Avensis, I think the auto would be a better choice than the manual; one because of the better fuel economy of CVT and, two because of the EPB in the Avensis. With an auto transmission, I suppose you can avoid using the parking brake while stopped in traffic, and use the park mode on the auto transmission.

Also I'm not sure how convenient a one touch release parking brake is with a manual transmission. I understand that the parking brake can be allowed to auto release. But this I understand also places additional strain on the clutch.

If you do a lot of urban orstop/start then yes, imo the CVT is the better choice. iirc the manual is theoretically slightly more fuel efficient & RealMPG confirms this www.honestjohn.co.uk/realmpg/toyota/avensis-2009 but it is very close.

The auto does not have auto-release for the EPB, only manuals. I don't know about any extra strain on the clutch due to auto-release but it does seem to increase wear on rear pads.

The actual use of EPB I don't have an issue with - the minor issue is the poor placement of the switch o the Avensis.

I almost never use auto-release ( n.b.there is a slight actuator delay when manually releasing which I find is just enough time to select a gear & move off seamlessly rather than selecting gear, release EPB - slight delay-move off)

A T2 will be very basic, I would tend to suggest looking at TR or above which will get you a few toys that make life easier.

The 2nd car has a very short MOT life left - as it would sell much better with a new MOT why haven't they done it? Do they perhaps know it has issues that will cost?

An estate is obviously a lot more practical than a saloon if you need to carry a lot of stuff & the fact that they had winter tyres for it suggests to me that they probably cared for their vehicle.

Really you need to physically inspect them for condition & if you buy an Avensis that is 5+ unless it has just been serviced by a Toyota dealer I would avail myself of the Essential Care Silver service+MOT for £99 offer www.toyota.co.uk/owners/99-service-mot-offer? as it will give you an inspection report & flag any potential issues.

Edited by Heidfirst on 01/03/2019 at 14:21

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Fri 1 Mar 2019 14:37
Multiple - Thoughts / opinions on the listed car ads - eustace

Thanks for your inputs Heidfirst.

I don't expect the avensis to be doing much stop start journeys. But I thought that even long distance journeys would be more relaxing with an Auto. I am not by nature light footed. So I thought the CVT would worry about the fuel economy, rather than me! :-)

Between the 4th and 5th ads above, (the 2011 Avensis manual saloon and the 2010 auto estate), which car would you consider going for?

While I would have liked to go for the CVT car for a change, I'm not adamant on it being a manual, or it being a Estate either.

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Fri 1 Mar 2019 15:51
Multiple - Thoughts / opinions on the listed car ads - Heidfirst

I don't expect the avensis to be doing much stop start journeys. But I thought that even long distance journeys would be more relaxing with an Auto. I am not by nature light footed. So I thought the CVT would worry about the fuel economy, rather than me! :-)

Between the 4th and 5th ads above, (the 2011 Avensis manual saloon and the 2010 auto estate), which car would you consider going for?

While I would have liked to go for the CVT car for a change, I'm not adamant on it being a manual, or it being a Estate either.

Conflicted - I like estates for their practicality & my needs but they may not be your needs ...

If you don't intend to do lots of urban or stop/start work then either transmission should serve you well - on a long distance journey presumably most of the time you will be in 6th on a manual? There should be more 1.8 manual estates than those with CVT.

& that is why I run a 2017 1.8 manual Business Edition estate (the one before that was a 2012 2.2D manual T-Spirit estate). But I would happily run a 1.8 CVT too.

As for 16" v 17", 17" imo are fine, 18" was too far (45 profile tyres more prone to expensive damage on our badly maintained roads)

Edited by Heidfirst on 01/03/2019 at 16:13

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Fri 1 Mar 2019 14:42
Multiple - Thoughts / opinions on the listed car ads - eustace

Thanks, Heidfirst! Just saw your update. I think the second advert owner is selling the car as she is not using it much now, as she has changed jobs to central London.

Probably will ask for a new MOT, if I decide to go for it.

Is your Avensis a TR + spec?

HJs review mentions that the TR and above specs comes with 17" wheels and make the ride more uncomfortable, compared to the 16" wheels on the T2 spec. What is your thoughts on that?

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Fri 1 Mar 2019 20:34
Multiple - Thoughts / opinions on the listed car ads - SLO76
While both Honda and Toyota CVT’s are generally reliable they still require fluid changes on schedule and it’s almost guaranteed to have been neglected by non-franchises backstreet garages and fast fit centres so I’d leave any CVT equipped car that doesn’t have a full main dealer or specialist service history well alone.

It’s unusual to find a CVT Jazz that has anything more than extremely low mileage up and for good reason. They’re not the most refined of motorway pounders and most owners tend to be a little onnthe older side. If you want one I’d spend a bit extra to get a good low mileage example. You do see them appearing in private sales due to owner giving up driving or due to bereavement. These often make great buys.

Beware of anyone selling on behalf of a friend or a relative it’s almost certainly a fly trader. Instead ask if the car is registered to them at the address they currently live. If not then leave it. You’re also looking for something that’s been owned longterm, preferably 3yrs plus. Any less is a sign of a problem.

As for the two examples of the Avensis well the saloons are a hard sell and both of these are overpriced. No one will be queuing up to buy them. If you view and it’s good then get your size twelves on and hit them hard.

I’d personally stick with manual if there’s no main dealer history:
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Fri 1 Mar 2019 23:45
Multiple - Thoughts / opinions on the listed car ads - Heidfirst
While both Honda and Toyota CVT’s are generally reliable they still require fluid changes on schedule and it’s almost guaranteed to have been neglected by non-franchises backstreet garages and fast fit centres so I’d leave any CVT equipped car that doesn’t have a full main dealer or specialist service history well alone.



Iirc it is 6 yearly replacement on the Avensis CVT which is just about when it sounds like this one came out of the dealer network. I doubt that Halfords or Kwikfit did it.
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Sat 2 Mar 2019 20:38
Multiple - Thoughts / opinions on the listed car ads - eustace

Thanks SLO76 / Heidfirst for your inputs.

Called regarding the first Jazz that was advertised. Car has not been serviced by dealer for long time. Hence eliminated the Jazz.

Went and saw one of the manual Avensis advertised. It was advertised as 1 owner. Actually had 2. Couple of large scratches on the side that was not mentioned on the ad.

Anyway testdrove the car. First time driving the new model Avensis, Drive was great. Car felt very solid. EPB was not very off-putting. However the car had the other problem of cracked front doors, near the hinges. Argh!!

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