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A polluting waste of money, unless you enjoy cleaning tyres. Reminds me of the fashion for 'whitewall' tyres. But the general acceptance that you can have any colour as long as it's black has never been rejected. I've sometimes wondered when automotive fashion might evolve to mirror that of child's bicycles. The tyres on my son's were/are yellow.
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That's just it John I do enjoy cleaning tyres.....and wheels....and glass.....
The last 2 cars I've bought ( new) the first thing I've done to them is clay bar and wax them from top to bottom .....sad I know but A: I enjoy it and B: It really does improve the look
Edited by paul 1963 on 21/02/2019 at 14:16
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Tyres are traditionally black because the early rubber technologists found that adding carbon black produced a formulation with the best properties. It's also cheap. Of course tyres can be made in almost any colour, but I doubt that they would last as well or be cost-effective - i.e. good value.
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Whatever floats your boat John 1963 but for me the stuff reminds me of a dodgy used car dealer. Shiny tyres, shiny engine plastics and shiny dash. Diverts the punter's attention from what is really important.
I wonder what SLO's opinion of the stuff is?
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Good.
Used sensibly, it makes a clean car look better. I don't go in for shiny dashboards or engine bay components though - tacky.
I once worked in the Automotive after-market industry and I remember a senior chap saying that not using tyre shine after washing and waxing the car, was like putting on a new suit with scruffy shoes. A very good analagy I feel.
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Couple of things spring to mind reading the replies here:
The OP asked for recommendations re. tyre shine. instead of which he's been told not to waste his time and money (emphasis on HIS time and money ... it's his choice how he spends both) ... and also had a brief, and slightly irrelevant, history advising about the manufacture of black rubber tyres. ... but no recommendations regarding his enquiry.
In all honesty - and with the benefit of hindsight considering the absence of help given here - I think the question would be far better addressed to one of the numerous car detailing forums, where they seem to delve into this sort of thing in huge detail and where they talk of nothing other than making your car shine.
BUT, yes, I occasionally use the stuff and have always used Carplan Tyre Slik,in 500 ml spray cans.
Available in a few places including ECP (who deliver free and have regular discount codes available).
If oversprayed (accidentally or deliberately) on to the wheels it's a little bit sticky for a few days after application but dissipates after a few washes.
As mentioned, good also for other plastic bits of trim.
Have always had a couple of tins in the garage for years and years and love the stuff. But clearly others don't.
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Couple of things spring to mind reading the replies here:
The OP asked for recommendations re. tyre shine. instead of which he's been told not to waste his time and money (emphasis on HIS time and money ... it's his choice how he spends both) ... and also had a brief, and slightly irrelevant, history advising about the manufacture of black rubber tyres. ... but no recommendations regarding his enquiry.
In all honesty - and with the benefit of hindsight considering the absence of help given here - I think the question would be far better addressed to one of the numerous car detailing forums, where they seem to delve into this sort of thing in huge detail and where they talk of nothing other than making your car shine.
BUT, yes, I occasionally use the stuff and have always used Carplan Tyre Slik,in 500 ml spray cans.
Available in a few places including ECP (who deliver free and have regular discount codes available).
If oversprayed (accidentally or deliberately) on to the wheels it's a little bit sticky for a few days after application but dissipates after a few washes.
As mentioned, good also for other plastic bits of trim.
Have always had a couple of tins in the garage for years and years and love the stuff. But clearly others don't.
Not sure what you have been reading into this post KB, but the OP clearly does not ask for recommendations, nor, at least not how i'm reading it, is he asking for any kind of help. In fact the way i read it, he seems to know exactly what he is doing and what he wants re the appearance of his car/cars. All he is asking, is what other forum members think about the useage of tyre shine (and the possibility that it may damage the tyre in some way). Which is exactly what the response has been, i.e, some are in favour, others not so much.
Edited by badbusdriver on 21/02/2019 at 18:15
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Don't use it, don't like the look of it one bit, but each to their own beauty in the eye etc.
I blast the tyres and wheels off with the pressure washer when i wash the cars, brings the tyres back to clean black rubber, which oddly enough is what they are.
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When i first started working as a car valeter, we used tyre paint. That really was awful stuff, i hated using it and didn't think it did anything for the car's appearance, but the boss insisted!.
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When i first started working as a car valeter, we used tyre paint. That really was awful stuff, i hated using it and didn't think it did anything for the car's appearance, but the boss insisted!.
Sounds like you worked for me!!
I would insist wheels were resprayed silver - not fake bright or chrome style, just aluminium, factory silver, then a matt black tyre paint, to the tyres
As more than likely the van itself would have been repainted, anyway. so finishing off in this manner was appropriate. In fact nuch more so, than cheap n cheerful plastic fall face wheel trims.
And as for currently, yes I would use a tyre dressing on our own cars now.
VB
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I use Matt tyre foam. Works for me though after a period of time tyres go brown.
Surely can’t be worse than deodorant John F. (Unless you don’t use that either ??).
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I must admit that I like my tyres to gleam.
I've found Muc-Off's Tyre Foam to be the best at cleaning and shining. They tend to stay shinier for longer too.
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I use Matt tyre foam. Works for me though after a period of time tyres go brown.
That's because (as I said above) it's a bit tacky, and brake dust collects on it. Nothing to do except scrub it off and start again.
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Those many hundreds of hours spent cleaning cars over your lifetime could be spent investing or learning something useful instead - it could change your life! I keep the glass areas clean and put the car through a car-wash pre-MOT once a year - that's it - never physically cleaned a car in my life (been driving well over 30 years.)
it does amaze me, my neighbours spend hours cleaning their two cars - but have to take them to the garage for every tiny issue as they know absolutely zilch about how anything actually works, if they spent quarter as much time reading a Haynes manual, they'd be quids in - instead they continuously get ripped off paying for stuff that doesn't need doing to their impeccably shiny cars. Doh! Come to think of it, I don't think they can't even wire a plug between them...
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if they spent quarter as much time reading a Haynes manual, they'd be quids in
some people are just not cut out to be anywhere near mechanics and have no idea what they should be doing, reading a book about mechanical workings is to some almost impossible to grasp and some people wouldn't even get their hands dirty
I know Ive come across a lot of people who have no idea and have no intentions of learning about cars, it used to give me work because people said they had no idea what they were doing and had no intentions of finding out
personally I hate gardening but others love it, each to their own
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Steve, I'm a bit like that, as my 11-year-old Pug has spent its entire life in the open, and usually only gets a wipe-off after some rain. It's never going to become a classic so that's how things will stay. As nothing ever goes wrong with it, it may be here for a few years yet. Even the 28-year-old Pug doesn't often get much attention, but I do like keeping it fresh by shining the glass and stopping the wheels looking too dirty.
Regarding Haynes manuals - their change of marketing model has mirrored the fact that modern cars are almost incapable of simple DiY compared with 20 years ago, especially for the less able owners you mention. I always used to change oil and filter until I got the present car - can't do it any more without serious equipment, which I see no point in buying.
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Back in the early 90's I went to an event organised by Uniroyal who had just launched a range of racing slicks under the FAST brand (Formula and Sports Tyres). They were about 1/2 the price of the normal Avons that virtually everyone else used thus there was much interest. The subject of "Tyre Shine" was raised and the Uniroyal man said basically not to use it since some brands contain compounds that can accelerate the micro cracking on the surface.
As for the FAST tyres, the people who bought them did pretty well but I went for Hoosiers which started to be imported at the same time simply because I got a sponsorship deal, £50 for every class win, which more than paid for the tyres over a season.
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I don't spend hours washing cars, though i do know people who do, i've just washed both of ours in 15 minutes flat.
Bilt Hambers Autofoam (nearly half way through a 25 litre drum after 2 years of at least twice a months washes) through the pressure washer's inbuilt detergent dispenser, wait a short while, blast off with low pressure high volume via lance at widest angle, both cars gleaming, wheels spotless (without agitation) and the brakes blasted of salt and muck.
If you leave winter salt on the paint to bake on during the sunny days it becomes a nightmare to clean off, and your wheels once it gets ingrained may prove impossible to clean, let alone that salt doing its worse to the exposed brakes.
Come the spring when the salt has finally gone will be time to get the L shaped lance out and remove all the salt from the underbodies after a few wet days (again low pressure high volume, this is not usually possible with domestic pressure washers which do not have high flow rates), then check and touch up the rustproofing during the warmer weather.
One of my best investments a Kranzle washer.
Edited by gordonbennet on 24/02/2019 at 12:51
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"........... One of my best investments a Kranzle washer."
OK, I confess ... I've never heard of Kranzle.
Karcher, yes, Kranzle, no.
Bought a Karcher 520 MH in 2002 for £169 and it still runs fine, (albeit there's now a valve that's gone defective and causes it to momentarily turn itself on when the trigger tells it to stay off). Apparently at the time it was one of the slightly better made models with brass bits instead of plastic.
If it packed up tomorrow I would want to go out and have a replacement here by the end of the week - and would have restricted myself to looking for an equivalent Karcher.
What might I gain by looking elsewhere?
Having done a cursory check it would seem the Kranzle would cost more but be considered a better product.
I wouldn't consider something like £500 to be unreasonable given how useful I regard them (I have a flexible lance plus a rotary pation cleaning attachment... the former being an obvious requirement but the latter being far more effective than I would have believed before getting itl).
Presumably my patio cleaning attachment wouldn't fit a Kranzle?
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Might need an adapter to connect your patio cleaner i suspect, should be an easy find on the usual auction site.
I chose a Kranzle machine because of advice from the professionals who maintain the industrial steam cleaner where i work.
Pressure washers he explained are not about pressure, they are about water flow rate, the more litres per minute the better, also the more pro use machines come with brass pumps and fittings though some non return valves and the like may well be stainless steel, the pipe needs to be made of rubber not plastic, but most important is that you can buy parts for said machine.
Yes they are more expensive, but the price differences with all makes when you start getting away from aluminium pumps (which water attacks over time) onto brass and then rubber 15metre pressure pipes and much more robust variable jet width lances are rather eye opening, but you can also plumb into your hot water supply and use these as a hot water pressure washer if you need to.
They need servicing now and again, basically a DIY oil change after so many hours of use, but it has a dipstick so you can keep an eye on the oil level and condition.
Lots of useful accessories once you get a high flow rate, you can get gutter cleaning extensions, basically an extendable hollow fishing rod that the water can travel through and clean the gutters on a two or three level house quite easily, then there's drain jetting kits, as well as the patio cleaning you already have.
I spent a few quid on good quality quick release fittings for the various pipes and lances.
As you've already found KB, these things are not cheap by any means, and when researching various makes of the more professional washers, just as with most things it's what they don't tell you in the blurb that is often the most important, ie pipe material and length, metal used in the pump, auto stop not on all machines, pipe coiler for when not in use, parts availability if any.
I bought mine from a professional pressure washer and industrial cleaning supplier, they offered as good a deal as any i could find online and they know the business as against just selling things.
Edited by gordonbennet on 24/02/2019 at 23:13
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Surely flow rate is limited to what comes from the mains?
I spotted some Hyundai petrol pressure washers for sale, along with lawn mowers, I wonder if they’re actually made by Hyundai or it’s a tie-up with a local manufacturer.. and more importantly, if they are any good!
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I did seriously consider a petrol washer, but the noise they make is horrendous, even a powerful electric pressure washer is noisy enough.
Haven't seen Hyundai washers, so can't comment on what they may be like.
Flow rate is often missing from the specifications for the cheaper domestic washers, which usually just give pressure in psi, pressure is ok but if you don't have enough water flow and rely just on pressure you could well be drawing pencil thin lines around your car's bodywork instead of cleaning it properly, plus by having to use a really thin jet pattern the pressure can cause paint damage.
If your flow rate from the mains is really poor, some washers are capable of sucking water from a butt or similar, i believe the Kranzles are capable of this but don't know about others.
Edited by gordonbennet on 24/02/2019 at 23:58
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^^^ Very comprehensive and useful reply, GB ... ta for that.
The present one hasn't reached a point of no return as we speak but I shall do some customary checking to see what model might suit and then compare it with whatever Karcher have to offer. As we know, a modern equivalent of my present machine may well be made with lighter (cheaper) materials (compare the weight of a new 22" LG or Samsung television with a Sony from 15 years ago .... as I have done ... the new one weighs next to nothing - but I guess the fact that it's lighter isn't necessariliry a terrible thing if it works just as well).
I hadn't ever considered flow - I don't suffer low pressure (in fact have reduced the incoming 6 bar down to a, more manageable, 3 bar.)
Give us a clue to the recommended supplier if you can.
Ta.
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Gladly KB, i bought mine from these people, as you'll see they also deal in other makes.
hughcrane.co.uk/machine-range/pressure-washers.html
Decent deal for me and one free delivery when one of the chaps was passing by, good service, helpful, and they hold a decent stock of spares on the shelf, i bought a 2160 TST by the way, which is ideal for me, i'd have liked a more industrial model but the one i have takes up almost no room when not in use.
I agree with you about the weight of televisions, we upgraded the system in the bedroom during the pre Christmas sales, i thought the 40" Sony was reasonably light till i picked up the 40" Samsung that replaced it, probably 1/3rd of the weight, annoyed with myself really as there would have been enough room after all to put the current living room 50" on the bedroom wall, and could have upgraded to a 65" (remarkably priced in John Lewis' sale) for the living room..:-) i know, first world problems and all that.
I've also noticed that things made in that period around 20 or so years ago (so 90's cars, very good indeed) seemed to be made to last more than the newer products from the same makers now.
Edited by gordonbennet on 25/02/2019 at 11:21
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Firstly ... we're off topic - if it's thought necessary we would need to pick up elsewhere (Avant??)
But, I had a quick look and a couple of things jumped out at me.
1. The one you have, GB, looks to be £1100 or £1200. You will have also looked at the 1152, which is roughly half that but only shows as having a slightly lower spec, in terms of pressure and throughput.
Both seem to have the option of an onboard hosereel as opposed to not having an onboard hosereel.
As always there's a reason for everything so it may well be that it's not just a little bit of extra performance that you're buying and there's, perhaps, an improved built quality etc?
2. A couple of reviews mention a degree of uncertainty regarding whether or not it has a UK warranty - also there was a question of whether they had a UK electric plugs fitted versus a European one, and whether swapping an EU plug for a UK plug would invalidate any warranty as might be present (or not, as the case may be).
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1. The one you have, GB, looks to be £1100 or £1200. You will have also looked at the 1152, which is roughly half that but only shows as having a slightly lower spec, in terms of pressure and throughput.
As said previously, they will offer a deal, no i didn't pay anything like that but when you look around at the other makes, once you start getting brass pumps, rubber hoses of a decent length, a decent flow rate, and a decent hose reel, you'll be knocking on the door of £900.
The 1152 you mention does look decent value, but make sure it has auto stop, can't remember now if that's why i went for the 2160 instead, because it came with everything i wanted, long hose, reel, autostop etc...i find the 15 metre hose ideal for my use, i can easily wash both cars parked several yards apart, a shorter hose would soon annoy.
I'd also seen the 2160 in use regularly at a customers premises, being used for cleaning trays on a daily basis, commercial use to which it was standing up to rather well it seemed.
I'm sure mine came with 2 years warranty, which thankfully hasn't been needed, and i can't recall if i had to change the plug or not, when i'm next in the garage i'll have a look at the plug and see if it was a moulded on jobbie.
I had a quick look at those Hyundai petrol washers, and again by the time you get a decent hose length (material not stated) i'm sure we were up at £800+.
I'm not trying to pressure (ho ho) you or anyone by the way and i have no association with either the maker or supplier other than as a customer, and yes these are blinking expensive things and i dare say many people wouldn't consider spending that much on something they would use so rarely.
In our own case it saved me probably several £hundred by being able to jet our own drains all the way to the edge of our property (i think the jetting pipe is some 25 metres), that clever jet crawling its way through the drains dragging the pipe along after it dislodged years of limescale in the pipework, some of which may have come from further up the road, which i was able to fetch out from one of the manholes before the problem got further along still which would have caused a serious problem had it blocked fully.
Apologies to Avant about the topic shift, but this is about cleaning cars as well, indeed the tyre sidewalls come up spotless too:-)
Edited by gordonbennet on 25/02/2019 at 21:22
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No apology needed GB and KB - nothing wrong with a bit of thread drift. And pressure washers are useful, whereas I can see no use whatsoever for tyre shine. I clean our cars regularly but have never used tyre shine in 50 years of owning cars - and never will.
As a child in the 1950s I wondered what the point of white-wall tyres was (only white for a short time). I never found an answer to that question.
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As a child in the 1950s I wondered what the point of white-wall tyres was (only white for a short time). I never found an answer to that question.
I thought Andrew-T might have answered that. He wrote......
While boot polish might screen the tyre, it can only absorb more heat, and also attract more dirt. You need something white or reflective to defeat the photochemical effect.
I thought 1950s rubber might have been more prone to sun damage in the hotter climes of California, but according to Wikipedia it was zinc oxide for longevity. Good pub quiz question!
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I thought Andrew-T might have answered that. He wrote......
While boot polish might screen the tyre, it can only absorb more heat, and also attract more dirt. You need something white or reflective to defeat the photochemical effect.
I thought 1950s rubber might have been more prone to sun damage in the hotter climes of California, but according to Wikipedia it was zinc oxide for longevity. Good pub quiz question!
I seriously doubt that the whitewall tyres on old Hollywood Chevvies were to prevent sidewall cracking - purely cosmetic, just like all the other unnecessary frills and excrescences on American mobile chesterfields. :-)
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^^ Much to ponder on. Plenty to research. Thanks again.
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For a while I used sunflower oil as a tyre dressing, not for cosmetic purposes (which would be ludicrous) on my car) but as anti-oxidation/UV protectant.
It filled in the surface cracks nicely, but the surface sheen was apparently absorbed by the rubber and resumed a matt appearance after a couple of hours.
I stopped doing it when I noticed that it softened a radiator hose I used it on. A bit of softening on old tyres might of course be a very good thing, but there seemed to be a risk of overdoing it.
I've seen it alleged that commercial tyre dressings can contain solvents which may damage rubber.
Thinking of trying boot polish (probably Kiwi), as used by Sir Anthony Hopkins in The Fastest Indian. (That might have been Nugget, but he was playing a Kiwi) He should be worth suing if I crash and die.
Theres a specific UV protectant people use on rubber dingies called something like Aerospace 303. If I was going to buy something specially (I'm probably not) and could get it here, (I probably can't) that's what I'd buy.
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For a while I used sunflower oil as a tyre dressing, not for cosmetic purposes (which would be ludicrous) on my car) but as anti-oxidation/UV protectant.
I've seen it alleged that commercial tyre dressings can contain solvents which may damage rubber.
As a one-time photochemist, I would have thought that putting an unsaturated hydrocarbon on a black surface exposed to air would tend to 'cook' it, rather like linseed oil but more slowly. I doubt that it would protect tyre rubber, in fact it might have the opposite effect. While boot polish might screen the tyre, it can only absorb more heat, and also attract more dirt. You need something white or reflective to defeat the photochemical effect.
In the very old days the advice was never to put oil on vulcanised rubber, but I'm sure that problem doesn't affect more recent formulations.
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My assumption was that the veg oil would undergo oxidative polymerisation, forming a protective skin, and it apparently did, but it also seemed to be absorbed by the rubber, which was less expected and less welcome.
I understand the main crack propagation mechanism is ozone "snipping" of the polymer chains which are under tension at the tip of the crack. Since the cracks were filled with a mixture of degraded rubber, carbon black and veg oil, and since the unsaturated veg oil will probably react with the ozone, I still think a protective role is likely. UV protection is probably less likely/important, but the oil does acquire some blacking from the surface of the rubber
I found very little literature on this. There were some US Army references to the use of sunflower oil to protect NBC rubber gear, and an internet article recommending castor oil (which is more stable) as a tyre dressing (but hey, its the Internyet)
I was going to try chalk and/or aluminium mixed with the oil when the suspicion of softening rather put me off the whole idea.
Can't see how boot polish will make a tyre hotter. The tyre is already black.
Boot polish MIGHT attract dirt. AFAICT this either wouldn't matter at all (since I'm uninterested in cosmetics) or it would provide a small amount of UV protection so would be very slightly beneficial.
I think the oil-and-rubber warnings mostly refer to mineral oil. For example, I believe "Red Rubber Grease" is castor oil based
Edited by edlithgow on 02/03/2019 at 17:04
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I understand the main crack propagation mechanism is ozone "snipping" of the polymer chains which are under tension at the tip of the crack. Since the cracks were filled with a mixture of degraded rubber, carbon black and veg oil, and since the unsaturated veg oil will probably react with the ozone, I still think a protective role is likely. UV protection is probably less likely/important, but the oil does acquire some blacking from the surface of the rubber.
Can't see how boot polish will make a tyre hotter. The tyre is already black.
It's the UV that excites the ozone to give free oxygen atoms, which then go for the double bonds in your oil to create free radicals - basically the process which starts the snipping you mention. So while your gubbins may fill the cracks, it doesn't necessarily prevent the reaction.
Boot polish might make your tyre blacker, and therefore (perhaps marginally) hotter.
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