What is life like with your car? Let us know and win £500 in John Lewis vouchers | No thanks
Honda Jazz Hybrid - Which Hybrid Car - Steveieb
May I have your recommendations for a small hybrid car?
It's for my partners daughter who has green credentials and has set her mind on one to replace her Fiesta Zetec.
Get the impression that the Prius has been ruled out in view of its shape, but the Jazz Hybrid ls the leading choice . They get an amazing recommendation in Which and I understand are built in Japan .
Honda Jazz Hybrid - Which Hybrid Car - Glaikit Wee Scunner {P}

Toyota Auris or Yaris hybrids are also available.

My SIL has had 2 Yaris hybrids as she likes to change frequently. She is obviously bamboozled by sales persons as I was the first to explain to her about the electrical equipment.

Edited by Glaikit Wee Scunner {P} on 23/01/2019 at 12:11

Honda Jazz Hybrid - Which Hybrid Car - Engineer Andy

It depends on what type of driving she does. Hybrids are not very useful when compared to diesels if they are doing high mileage long distance driving (the batteries will deplete quickly and thus you have a heavier car with a small petrol engine lugging it around).

Hybrids are only worth it if you're mainly doing urban work (and not low mileage - same issue with the batteries not keeping enough charge) on a combination of roads so that the batteries can be recharged by regenerative braking.

It also depends on what the car is to be used for - mainly commuting (type of driving?), school run/local trips to the shops, requirements for passengers, boot space, comfort/ride/handling/performance.

Budget (including running costs - not just fuel) is very important as well - these cars cost vastly more than an equivalent spec (performance/trim level) IC engine car, meaning she'll likely have to budget more for one of the same age/new, or accept one that's a few years older and not in such good nick.

If she really has green credentials, then she needs to investigate alternatives to using a car or so often, e.g. car sharing or using public transport/a bike for commuting and hiring a car for occasional use.

Bear in mind that most EVs have a CO2 output of around 50-60gCO2/km because of how the electricity is produced in the UK (not including the environmental costs of mining the [rare] raw materials and the manufacturing of the fancy batteries), not that much better than a small city (petrol) car that she may be able to afford as new one over a smallish hybrid that's 3-5 years old. Just because Hollywood celebs own a Prius (or other 'green' vehicles) doesn't make them (hybrids and EVs) the best thing since sliced bread.

Often a simple, small car is better, including on the wallet. Lots of very economical (check the Real mpg section) 1.0 petrol city cars and superminins around. The Jazz is a fine car (especially in terms of reliability), but drive-wise it isn't a patch on the Fiesta and others in that class.

If she has her heart set on a hybrid, including the Jazz, make sure she gets a thorough test drive on a variety of roads and speeds to see what living with it would be really like. It's worth noting that for all its plaudits in Which? magazine, Honda have yet to bring a hybrid version of the latest Jazz to market, at least in the UK. The HJ review of the Jazz Hybrid (mk2 from 2011-15) only gets a 3/5 rating overall:

www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/honda/jazz-hybrid-20.../

Honda Jazz Hybrid - Which Hybrid Car - mcb100
Slightly unfair to state that a hybrid will flatten it’s batteries when used on longer journeys. A (non plug-in) Hybrid will always have a third to half battery capacity on the motorway. A roll down a downhill slip road will increase my battery charge by 50 percent. Honda’s latest hybrid will go into EV mode at over 70mph, albeit for a short time. Plug-in hybrids, for example Mitsubishi PHEV, will run on petrol only once the battery has been depleted simply because it’s regenerative capability nowhere near matches the battery capacity.
Honda Jazz Hybrid - Which Hybrid Car - Engineer Andy
Slightly unfair to state that a hybrid will flatten it’s batteries when used on longer journeys. A (non plug-in) Hybrid will always have a third to half battery capacity on the motorway. A roll down a downhill slip road will increase my battery charge by 50 percent. Honda’s latest hybrid will go into EV mode at over 70mph, albeit for a short time. Plug-in hybrids, for example Mitsubishi PHEV, will run on petrol only once the battery has been depleted simply because it’s regenerative capability nowhere near matches the battery capacity.

That maybe, but you're using kinetic energy that would normally have been used for the car just to coast (a non-hybrid car) and not use any fuel that now means you do. All you're doing is using petrol to charge the battery. My point is that when it's going on a motorway, the petrol engine will, for the most part, be the only thing in use as the battery would be depleted quickly if it was in constant use without taking power away from the IC engine.

With plug-in hybrids, their optimal use very much depends on the distance between charges and thus how often the IC engine gets used.

In town with a reasonable amount of braking, this makes far more of a positive difference than on faster moving roads, which is why hybrid cars achieve their best mpg (compared to IC engined cars) when run in urban areas. That's why minicab drivers use them for urban work, and they predominantly doing long runs in more rural areas use diesels: they are used for what they are most suited to.

All I'm trying to say is its horses for courses - it's just not correct to say 'hybrid or EV cars are green or better than IC engined cars' across the board. As the tech improves, especially around the generation of the electricity for plu-in hybrids and EVs (still some years off), maybe.

Honda Jazz Hybrid - Which Hybrid Car - mcb100
That maybe, but you're using kinetic energy that would normally have been used for the car just to coast (a non-hybrid car) and not use any fuel that now means you do. All you're doing is using petrol to charge the battery. My point is that when it's going on a motorway, the petrol engine will, for the most part, be the only thing in use as the battery would be depleted quickly if it was in constant use without taking power away from the IC engine.

I’m using kinetic energy that would have been dissipated to atmosphere as heat, and converting it to electrical energy. There is no fuel burn when coasting as the engine is shut down. You’ve only got to watch the dashboard display on a hybrid to see that they will regenerate even on a motorway - any slight downhill gradient will potentially shutdown the ICE momentarily, as will slowing for traffic.
No, prolonged higher speed drives are not their natural environment, but it’s not the huge downside as sometimes portrayed. As you rightly say, a hybrid will come into its own when there are ample opportunities for battery regeneration.
Honda Jazz Hybrid - Which Hybrid Car - Engineer Andy
I’m using kinetic energy that would have been dissipated to atmosphere as heat, and converting it to electrical energy. There is no fuel burn when coasting as the engine is shut down. You’ve only got to watch the dashboard display on a hybrid to see that they will regenerate even on a motorway - any slight downhill gradient will potentially shutdown the ICE momentarily, as will slowing for traffic. No, prolonged higher speed drives are not their natural environment, but it’s not the huge downside as sometimes portrayed. As you rightly say, a hybrid will come into its own when there are ample opportunities for battery regeneration.

Only when the downhill part is steep enough that you'd have to brake in an IC-engined car. Tootling along at roughly the same speed means no regenerative braking, and you use the engine to generate electricity to charge the extra batteries. How about instead of braking every time you see someone ahead slowing, just lift of the accelerator?

My (13yo) car has a rated average fuel of about 37-38mpg, and yet I've been able consistently to beat that at 40.5mpg doing a mixed amount of driving. I see so many people on faster roads hit the brakes every time they see a brake light/vehcile slow ahead, even some way ahead, when gradually lifting off the gas works far better and helps avoid bunching (which can lead to holdups and even cause accidents) - essentially like a cruise control maintaining a gap but without applying the brake as most do.

I didn't say hybrids are terrible in the 'longer distance driving environment', but the extra weight of the batteries and related systems over a car with just the IC engine mean that any regen power (from braking or overspeed) is more than negated by that extra weight it has to carry. That's why a hybrid car will never match a decent diesel on long runs for mpg and many petrol-engined cars get close at a far lower cost.

That's why for those people doing longer and/or non-urban trips mostly driving at speeds above 50 with not many stop-starts, I'd never recommend using a standard hybrid-powered car. A plug-in hybrid might be more suitable as long as it could use the battery most of the time and the overall cost premium (including for the charging facility) could be recouped during the lifetime of the vehicle.

It's why in the OP's case we need to know what usage the car will be doing, as well as what they can afford to buy AND run, including all likely costs.

Honda Jazz Hybrid - Which Hybrid Car - mcb100
I know this is ‘off topic’ so far as the original post is concerned, but I’m struggling to see your link between braking and battery regeneration. There is no link between applying the brakes and charging the battery. Simply put, any time the car is in motion but without any form of propulsion by either driver or cruise control, it’s regenerating. There is no need to brake to charge the battery.
Best practice is always to anticipate hazards ahead and to slow down early - that gives you a direct benefit in terms of an mpg improvement, and it has the same result for me. I spend longer charging the high voltage battery, so the car will automatically run in electric vehicle mode for longer and the ICE will be shut down for longer periods of time. This works at cruise as well as in town.
The advent of WLTP will, I suspect, effectively bring to an end the perceived advantage of plug-in hybrids. They could breeze through NEDC without firing up the ICE, but WLTP is longer and at a lower temperature - I haven’t yet looked at WLTP for PHEV vehicles (Benefit in Kind is still calculated on NEDC). A recent visit to a Mitsubishi workshop revealed that a high percentage of PHEV’s are never charged, and consequently return a figure in the low 30’s.
I maintain that I can do a motorway journey more economically in a petrol/electric hybrid (1500 miles in the past 10 days) than I could in an equivalently powered straight petrol engined car. And I can spend all day in town at above diesel levels of economy without having to worry about a DPF warning light.
Honda Jazz Hybrid - Which Hybrid Car - Hugh Watt
Simply put, any time the car is in motion but without any form of propulsion by either driver or cruise control, it’s regenerating. There is no need to brake to charge the battery.

As a non-engineer, when mulling the purchase of a hybrid car I did my best to research and understand how the electric input was integrated with the ICE at higher speeds, and I'm glad that mcb100 is taking issue with what I believe is an over-simplistic notion of how it works. The Toyota system is in fact quite a box of tricks, with electric assistance continually cutting in to augment the ICE.

I've often seen the view expressed here by Engineer Andy, that "the batteries will deplete quickly and thus you have a heavier car with a small petrol engine lugging it around", and I think this misrepresents the hybrid's added efficiency even at motorway speeds. If I could have afforded a 4th gen Prius (and lived with the porcelain-effect interior!) I know it would have been even more economical over distances than the 1.2 petrol turbo car I finally chose.

Honda Jazz Hybrid - Which Hybrid Car - Engineer Andy

I never said a hybrid is less efficient than an equivalent petrol-only car on such work, but ois less fuel efficient than a diesel, and factoring in the far higher capital cost of the car and the same usage, it never will cost less to run than a modern petrol-engined car of similar performance if you spend the vast majority of your time on motorways. If they were this good everywhere, everyone would be buying one.

Driving in town, it certainly would, but for many of us they are still out of reach cost wise, as I wouldn't be keen on buying one second hand. The other downside for me is that they just can't compete on the handling, performance and comfort of a IC engine only car because of the extra weight, except if you've got a load of £££ to spend. Most people don't. Believe me when I say I hope this isn't always the case. I still think there for a limited market, but growing as the tech develops.

Honda Jazz Hybrid - Which Hybrid Car - mcb100
The buying second hand point is an interesting one, and I’m sure a hybrid vehicle is a scary proposition to most. In reality, Toyota will provide a warranty on the hybrid elements of the car for up to 10 years and Honda are launching CR-V Hybrid with their usual 3 year warranty on the car, but 5 years on hybrid components. There is no gearbox to worry about (Toyota has an epicyclic gear instead, Honda is, effectively a direct drive), so no DMF. There are myriad Prius taxis with starship mileages, still on their original batteries. Brake wear is tiny because of regenerative braking, and there are fewer moving parts to go wrong.
Honda Jazz Hybrid - Which Hybrid Car - colinh

Suggest you spend some time driving a "normal" hydrid on varying roads, including motorways - you may be surprised how often the EV mode indicator is seen even on flat sections.

Honda Jazz Hybrid - Which Hybrid Car - monkeyboy55

Had a Yaris Hybrid for over 6 months now. Went for a 66 reg as it is £0 RFL. Looked at Jazz but put off that is no longer available new.

Averaging 60mpg on mixed runs, was more in summer but heater makes the petrol motor kick in earlier in cold weather.

Once 5 year warranty has expired Toyota offer an extra years battery warranty when serviced with them up to a maximum of 10 years.

Very comfortable (I’m 6ft 4ins) and quiet apart from when petrol motor is trying to catch up with cruise control setting. Performance wise not far off previous car (1.6 Mini One)

Honda Jazz Hybrid - Which Hybrid Car - wrangler_rover

Hybrids are certainly worth it if you are a company car driver and want to minimise your benefits in kind.

I am on my 2nd plug in hybrid, first was a Mitsubishi outlander PHEV and my current one is a Hyundai ioniq plug in. As has been said previously, the fuel economy on motorways is worse than diesels and the range of the car on a full tank is less than that of a diesel, but, if you are like me and want to minimise the income tax paid on the car, then the plug in hybrid is the sensible choice.

Honda Jazz Hybrid - Which Hybrid Car - Avant

Does anyone on here own a plug-in hybrid privately?

As you imply, they make sense as company cars (at least currently) because of the lower BiK: but to buy orivateky they are so much more expensive than the equivalent petrol versiom that any payback period (through lower running costs) would be unrealistically long.

OK for high-mileage drivers? Maybe, but using the Audi A3 as an example, the 1.4 or 1.5 petrol will give you up to 55 mpg on a long run, where any hybrid isn't at a great advantage.

Honda Jazz Hybrid - Which Hybrid Car - SLO76
I’d favour the Toyota Yaris due to the firms extensive experience and excellent reputation for hybrid drivetrains plus the Yaris drives better than the rather dull Mk II Jazz. But they don’t really stack up economically unless you’re doing a lot of local driving. Longer distance use tends to see economy drop to no better than a conventional petrol equivalent and they tend to cost substantially more plus servicing is a bit dearer too.

If she is doing a fairly modest mileage a Yaris 1.33 petrol would probably make for a better buy and as for green credentials well a hybrid power pack is actually quite damaging to the environment. It uses more resources, creates more CO2 during production and is less green when it comes to final disposal. If she’s doing less than 15k p/a I'd bet a conventional Yaris will cause less pollution over its full lifespan.

Honda Jazz Hybrid - Which Hybrid Car - madf

I looked at buying a Jazz hybrid in 2012 when I ended up buying a petrol auto Jazz.

Advantages of hybrid Jazz: better soundproofing, better suspension, 10% on average fuel consumption.

Disadvantages: heavier, more expensive to maintain and - unlike Toyota's system - most dealers don't have a clue. And occasional reports of total battery failure.

I needed space and flat boot for beehives so Yaris was too small.(test drove Yaris hybrid as well)

Honda Jazz Hybrid - Which Hybrid Car - kiss (keep it simple)

There seems to be some confusion over the way regenerative braking works. When a vehicle is travelling at a constant speed it has kinetic energy. If it needs to use its brakes, some of this energy is either recovered (by regenerative braking on a hybrid or electric) or lost as heat in the braking system. Travelling at a constant speed, a hybrid does not use its battery at all so it is in effect a fully petrol/diesel vehicle. However it's not quite that simple. A hybrid system generally keeps the battery at roughly half charge so it still has capacity to give an acceleration boost if needed, or absorb some extra charge when braking. Therefore if you brake suddenly say on a motorway, it will then use some of that extra charge to help you accelerate again until the battery is back to roughly half charge. If you come off a motorway and judge the car's momentum well, you may find that you hardly need to use the brakes at all, so a hybrid's advantage is reduced substantially. That's why urban driving shows a hybrid at its best. Lots of braking is unavoidable. If you live in a hilly area the hybrid will again have an advantage. There are other advantages in urban areas. A cabby I spoke to in Glasgow said one of their biggest savings was on replacement pads/discs.

Honda Jazz Hybrid - Which Hybrid Car - madf

"If you live in a hilly area the hybrid will again have an advantage. "

Well yes compared to a conventional car. BUT fuel consumption will suffer on hills - especially long ones- as the battery rapidly charges going downhill .. and then becomes full - and now you are in a conventional vehicle. A|nd going uphill with battery assist, the battery rapidly discharges.

(I drove a Prius in hilly Staffordhshire Moorlands for a day. Consumption was pants.

Honda Jazz Hybrid - Which Hybrid Car - Engineer Andy

Exactly guys.

Honda Jazz Hybrid - Which Hybrid Car - kiss (keep it simple)

Of course I should have clarified that the advantage in hilly areas would be greatest again in an urban setup with short ups and downs. No doubt a fully electric vehicle with a much larger battery would benefit further on longer hills. I have seen quite a few Teslas in ski resorts!

Honda Jazz Hybrid - Which Hybrid Car - pd

People are forgetting on the efficiency front that hybrid engines usually run on the Atkinson cycle. This means they are very efficient. They can only do this because the electric motor is there as a booster when you need the extra power/torque.

At least as far as the Toyota is concerned this is one of the reason they are very good on fuel - the engine can be designed and run in a mode it couldn't in a conventional non-electric assisted car.

If you do a lot of town driving and like an auto they are very, very good. They're much quieter and work much better in creep traffic than an auto stop/start conventional car.

I'm way more familiar with the Toyota system and the Prius is about the most reliable long term car you can buy. Go to poorer countries - particularly in Asia - somewhere like Cambodia - and about 50% of the cars are (used, older) Priuses because they haven't got the infrastructure to repair and maintain complicated diesels or many petrols.

Honda Jazz Hybrid - Which Hybrid Car - Vitesse6

I have an Auris hybrid in hilly south Devon, I live on top of a hill and every journey involves a lot of ups and downs. Average petrol consumption is 53 mpg and doesn't alter much between local and longer runs.

As has been pointed out already it is surprising how often the electric mode light is on when driving in traffic. The hybrid battery is only good for about a mile on pure electric running but when in traffic queues and waiting at lights the petrol engine just shuts itself off and only cuts in when needed. The real MPG figures here indicate that the hybrid auris will do about 54 mpg, the 1.2 turbo about 45

A self charging hybrid does not just charge its battery by regenerative braking. It will do that, but gains most of its efficiency by using the petrol engine in the most efficient way when it is running and shutting it down when it isn't needed. It will gain power from regenerative braking but that is a bonus.

To gain a greater insight how the hybrid system works try this

www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNuixuVhc5E

Honda Jazz Hybrid - Which Hybrid Car - mcb100
Confusion arises when ‘Regenerative Braking’ is mentioned. As stated above, there is absolutely no connection between the brakes and the battery. The simple act of squeezing pads onto discs has no effect upon charging the battery. No heat from that process is captured. It’s simply the rotation of undriven wheels, i.e. not under power, that spin up a motor/generator to provide power back to the battery. It’s regenerative deceleration, not braking. So the longer I can be off the power and the brakes by anticipating the traffic ahead, the more charge I put in the battery.
Honda Jazz Hybrid - Which Hybrid Car - Vitesse6

In a Toyota hybrid a gentle press on the brake pedal sends the power gauge into charging mode and sends power to the high voltage battery. Doesn't matter what you call it, but the car slows down and energy is saved to help out next time you accelerate.

Honda Jazz Hybrid - Which Hybrid Car - madf

In a Toyota hybrid a gentle press on the brake pedal sends the power gauge into charging mode and sends power to the high voltage battery. Doesn't matter what you call it, but the car slows down and energy is saved to help out next time you accelerate.

ONLY IF the battery is not fully charged.

Honda Jazz Hybrid - Which Hybrid Car - Vitesse6

The battery routinely operates to only 80% capacity which gives a bit of leeway to accept an extra charge.

Honda Jazz Hybrid - Which Hybrid Car - madf

The battery routinely operates to only 80% capacity which gives a bit of leeway to accept an extra charge.

No: that is the limit to which it is charged ..