It's been said on here before that there was a 'sweet spot' in car manufacturing: after the things on John's list had been put right by better quality components, but before the advent of electronic gizmos that people want but actually could do without.
I think that time was the mid- to late 1990s - about the time I think when John's cars were new, which is why he is able to service them himself. The Japanese seem to be able to get the electronics right; so is there another sweet spot coming soon?
Agree totally. Japanese models from the late 80’s into the 90’s were well sorted. Mostly (Mazda excluded) they resisted rot well and rarely went wrong if looked after. Mitsubishi’s and Toyota’s of the era in particular were very robust and Nissan’s were a great combination of reliability and driver appeal in the 90’s with cars like the Primera, Sunny (from 1991) and 200SX all providing excellent all-round ability. I was particularly fond of the Galant from 1992 which was utterly bombproof and very pleasant to drive though it was a bit thirsty especially the V6’s.
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Take a look at the cars that the Eastern Europeans buy both here and at home and you will see their preference for Audi and BMW 5 series diesels. These are cars that stand the test of time and are still reliable enough for the commute to the UK.
As regards French cars , they seem to resist rust ok but are badly let down by their electrics. As a car enthusiast told me in New York "We don't buy French or Italian they won't pass the lemon laws which ensure consumers are entitled to a full refund if found defective "
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As regards French cars , they seem to resist rust ok but are badly let down by their electrics. As a car enthusiast told me in New York "We don't buy French or Italian they won't pass the lemon laws which ensure consumers are entitled to a full refund if found defective "
Statistically you may be right, but as you all know by now, nearly all the cars I have owned since about 1990 have been Peugeots and I have suffered no electrical problems, other than an occasional numberplate lamp not working, or dirty plug contacts on a GTi ignition. So I don't change.
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I have had minimal problems of any kind on my French cars- Renault, Citroen and Peugeot. EJust normal servicing and consumables. Yes I know they are basically now all the same. The Peugeot I had for 4 years( at 7 years old) and was in excellent order when I sold it.
I dont count my Citroen GS that I bought as a project and needed some work.
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SLO, this was for you. Amazing condition for 222,000 miles. Always liked the hatchback.
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mitsubishi-Galant-2-0-GLSI-Top-...7
Had a 1988 and a 1989 Corolla 1.3 GL consecutively, same colour in mid 1990s. Second one I only lost £160 in a year and 23,000 miles. Would love another now or the GT-i version/1.6 executive 5 door hatch.
Cracking big cars these, especially the 2.0 GLSi. Only thing that killed them was gearbox bearings and the cost of some parts. The next gen cars were stronger and nicer to drive. Customers were the most loyal to the brand I’ve met.
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“Take a look at the cars that the Eastern Europeans buy both here and at home and you will see their preference for Audi and BMW 5 series diesels. These are cars that stand the test of time and are still reliable enough for the commute to the UK.“
BMW and some Audi diesels are among the least reliable older cars you could buy on a budget. They’re popular with our Eastern European friends because of the image and the fact that legislation regarding emissions and safety is far less stringent where they come from meaning warning lights and plumes of blue or black smoke mean little to them.
They’re not reliable and while I may be slated for saying so I’ve found many of our former Soviet Block friends rather dishonest when it comes to cars. I’ve yet to view one that wasn’t hiding some dire faults so much so that whenever I called and heard certain accents I politely make my excuses and don’t even bother to view. Equally at auction they were all over the worst stock that no one else wanted. Hard working, clever guys but Buyer beware.
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I'm surprised SLO that you don't share the view of most of the traders I have spoken to who make every effort to avoid buying French stock because of their reliabilty reputation which has filtered through to the car buying public making selling them to all but the uninformed extremely difficult.
Renaults decision to reduce their warranty to three years from four is evidence of this.
Also confidential figures of how many French cars under warranty that are simply replaced rather than deal with angry customers would back up my case.
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My Renault 5 was OK until it burst into flames.
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I'm surprised SLO that you don't share the view of most of the traders I have spoken to who make every effort to avoid buying French stock because of their reliabilty reputation which has filtered through to the car buying public making selling them to all but the uninformed extremely difficult.
Stevie - do you slate French cars because you have suffered problems, or are you just passing on what others tell you?
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I'm surprised SLO that you don't share the view of most of the traders I have spoken to who make every effort to avoid buying French stock because of their reliabilty reputation which has filtered through to the car buying public making selling them to all but the uninformed extremely difficult.
Renaults decision to reduce their warranty to three years from four is evidence of this.
Also confidential figures of how many French cars under warranty that are simply replaced rather than deal with angry customers would back up my case.
The French are a bit hit and miss with cars. Peugeot/Citroen have built some of the best driving and most robust cars of their time. I’m thinking Peugeot 405/406, 106, 205, 306, 505. All of which were great to drive, resisted rot better than rivals and were mechanically simple and robust. Yet they’ve also made some terrible cars. 307/308/407/3008 to name a few. I only leave out the 207 on account of earlier pre VTi petrols being surprisingly reliable and easy to fix. Renault similarly have the great and the terrible but they do (or rather did) know how to build a great hot hatch. Clio 16, Williams, 19 16v, Pug 106/205/309/306 and so on.
Edited by SLO76 on 24/12/2018 at 16:37
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Just wondered if you worked in the Diplomatic Service in your previous career SLO?
My experience with French cars was a once in a lifetime experience with an Espace which was a car I loved in theory but caused me so much pain and anxiety.
It was the electrics which again let the car down but it was one way of getting to know the recovery people throughout the UK.
My partners 207 SW a relatively simple car has suffered the usual Peugeot weakness of poor earth returns from the rear light cluster so that if too many lights switch on at once the connector joining the harness to the lamp unit burns out requiring both replacements costing £450.
Also two fuse boards later I discovered on google that water from the washer unit or thermostat finds its way into the fuse box . This caused us to be stranded at the airport with no power steering etc.
We British seem more fore giving than other nations such as the Americans or the Middle Eastern consumers who simply will not put up with cars that turn out to a liability.
Even the French are finally waking up to the fact that although in previous decades they made some of the finest cars on the road , cost cutting has dealt a deadly blow to their reputation. Take a look at the number of imports now on their roads.
And Nissan may be celebrating the oportunity to disentangle itself from Renault following the Carlos Ghosm event and replace some of the Renault power trains with their own bombproof units!
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The French are a bit hit and miss with cars. Peugeot/Citroen have built some of the best driving and most robust cars of their time. I’m thinking Peugeot 405/406, 106, 205, 306, 505. All of which were great to drive, resisted rot better than rivals and were mechanically simple and robust.
And don't forget the outstanding Peugeot 504, one of the best cars they ever built (probably before your time). They were ubiquitous in Africa when I was there in the 1970s - I wouldn't be surprised if a fair few don't still survive in West and sub Saharan Africa.
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“And don't forget the outstanding Peugeot 504, one of the best cars they ever built (probably before your time).“
True and true.
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Last time I heard the Nigerians and Kenyans persuaded Peugeot to continue making the 504 as they refused to accept anything from the newer range. Too complicated and unreliable ?
The 504 estates carried 10 passengers between Nairobi and Mombasa
I would love to try a Renault 16 which was one of my all time favourite cars. My work colleague repaired the rotted floor in his 16 with a gallon of araldite
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In the early seventies I was in the real Signals band on tour in Kenya....we had a few trips in big Peugeots driven 'enthusiastically'. Happy days.
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“I would love to try a Renault 16 which was one of my all time favourite cars. My work colleague repaired the rotted floor in his 16 with a gallon of araldite”
My dad had a 16 TX in metallic green. Bought it new in 1976 and it was light years ahead of rivals. Central locking, electric windows and 93bhp compared to 75 in a Cortina. Shame you could poke holes in the wings by the time it was 5yrs old and that was despite my old man pouring polish into the thing. It was replaced by a dull but comfortable Volvo 340 GL and then a long line of Swedish motors that never went wrong.
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I have a 1996 Peugeot 406 XUDT. I bought it in 2011, initially to tow a caravan for a couple of months. I intended selling it but a complete *** on ebay did me a favour by pulling out after agreeing to buy it. I was working abroad at the time so the car was parked up awaiting my return. Since then it's taken me on multiple trips around Europe, including a loop through the Baltic states, Finland, Sweden, Norway and back to the UK, plus several jaunts to Poland in winter and summer.
It is very easy to work on yet has suffered very few faults, most of which were rectified using a hammer and/or duct tape. An intermittent cold start fault turned out to be the heater plug relay. This was replaced with one off a later car but it seems to work fine.
It has a Bosch fuel pump so has seen its fair share of running on a diesel/veg oil mix during the warmer months.
All the electrics (with the exception of the heated seats) work, as does the AC. Unfortunately, the tin worm has taken hold on one of the rear arches so its days are numbered. I may have to drag myself into the 21st century with my xt necar......
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Unfortunately, the tin worm has taken hold on one of the rear arches so its days are numbered. I may have to drag myself into the 21st century with my xt necar.....
Of course it depends on your situation, and I havn't seen it, but as described I'd spend money and/or time fixing before I got rid of it.
The 21st century has very little appeal.
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Unfortunately, the tin worm has taken hold....
...The 21st century has very little appeal.
Well, so far it's very much better than the first fifth of the 20th century. Apart from some localised tribal slaughtering amongst some intellectually challenged oil/drug-rich semites, we have got through nearly 20% of it without tens of millions dying in world war and plague. And tin worms can't digest my 21st century aluminium car!
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And tin worms can't digest my 21st century aluminium car!
But electrolytic corrosion can _ see Jaguar who used steel rivets to join aluminium sheets to things!!
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And tin worms can't digest my 21st century aluminium car!
But electrolytic corrosion can _ see Jaguar who used steel rivets to join aluminium sheets to things!!
True. I do wonder about the long term health of certain Mercedes cars which use a mixture of steel and aluminium for the bodywork. I'm sure they must have thought of this, but.....
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True. I do wonder about the long term health of certain Mercedes cars which use a mixture of steel and aluminium for the bodywork. I'm sure they must have thought of this, but.....
In 2006 we looked briefly at a 2003 W215 Merc CL500, one of those aluminium bodied on steel framed models, the sales bod seemed a little upset when i pointed out the bubbles of corrosion forming on both rear quarter panels about half way up and was definately downhearted when as we walked away i pointed to the section of rear wheelarch roughly 8" long that had rotted completely away, about as corrosion resistant as a 70's Lancia Beta.
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Bloke I know has an 'M' reg 430 c class. He's had it for years and some time ago spent 2k putting corrosion to rights but it's been ok since. I had a 'C' class from around 1996 and that got some rust on the wheel arches and boot lock but Merc fixed the lot...and a few other patches for free at over ten years old. Fix it or change it? taxes the brain!
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"And tin worms can't digest my 21st century aluminium car!"
Aluminium itself isn't particularly 21st century.
Eros statue in Picadilly Circus was installed in 1893.
The stuff got a big boost during the 20th century world wars, resulting in the 20th century Routemaster aluminium-bodied London buses. Lancaster bomber technology.
I use it, in the form of abrasive disks made from flattened beercans, (admittedly 21st century beercans, but 20th century ones would work as well) to treat the rust on my 20th century car
Edited by edlithgow on 27/12/2018 at 01:21
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"And tin worms can't digest my 21st century aluminium car!"
Aluminium itself isn't particularly 21st century.
Eros statue in Picadilly Circus was installed in 1893.
The stuff got a big boost during the 20th century world wars, resulting in the 20th century Routemaster aluminium-bodied London buses. Lancaster bomber technology.
I use it, in the form of abrasive disks made from flattened beercans, (admittedly 21st century beercans, but 20th century ones would work as well) to treat the rust on my 20th century car
WW2 aircraft didn't worry about corrosion - they weren't expected to last long enough for it to be a problem.
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<< WW2 aircraft didn't worry about corrosion - they weren't expected to last long enough for it to be a problem. >>
Purely a matter of saving weight. Mosquitoes contained a lot of plywood - I wonder whether that was lighter than aluminium?
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Hyundai Getz. SWMBOs 2007 1. 4 l at 40000 miles. No body rust, a few minor repairs, driven unsympathetically and the first headlight bulb failed yesterday.
Edited by Glaikit Wee Scunner {P} on 27/12/2018 at 10:23
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<< WW2 aircraft didn't worry about corrosion - they weren't expected to last long enough for it to be a problem. >>
Purely a matter of saving weight. Mosquitoes contained a lot of plywood - I wonder whether that was lighter than aluminium?
The DH Mosquito was designed so that it could be built by furniture makers as all the metal-bashers were busy - towards the end of WW2 the Mosquitos were shipped to the Far East but the humidity/heat wrecked the glue and the plywood.
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I remember being flown in an early executive jet: mainly made of aluminium like all jets. It was eventually scrapped partially due to extensive aluminium corrosion around the toilets.....
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"And tin worms can't digest my 21st century aluminium car!"
Aluminium itself isn't particularly 21st century.
Eros statue in Picadilly Circus was installed in 1893.
The stuff got a big boost during the 20th century world wars, resulting in the 20th century Routemaster aluminium-bodied London buses. Lancaster bomber technology.
I use it, in the form of abrasive disks made from flattened beercans, (admittedly 21st century beercans, but 20th century ones would work as well) to treat the rust on my 20th century car
WW2 aircraft didn't worry about corrosion - they weren't expected to last long enough for it to be a problem.
Never said they did.
I doubt corrosion was a big problem anyway, though, except maybe with carrier-bourne aircraft.
Planes don't generally have a big disimmilar metals problem like steel-frame-aluminium-skin cars do (Planes like the Hurricane with fabric-covered steel tube fuselage might be a bit of an exception), and aren't generally wet or subject to salt road spray (wing de-icing might be a bit of an exception).
Combat aircraft might have a fairly primitive chemical toilet but no luxurious plumbing to be a source of corrosion.
Preserving wooden aircraft on dispersal in the open was probably quite challenging, though. IIRC there was a bit about it in "The New Science of Strong Materials".
I think tricks included putting a cat in it overnight (otherwise rodents were attracted by the crews sandwich crumbs and then gnawed important things), and burning (not drilling) drain holes in the wings etc, with a hot wire. Burning tended to seal the wood fibres whereas drilling left a fuzz that attracted fluff and hindered drainage.
There were probably other tricks that I can't remember
Maybe owners of plywood Marcos's could use some of the same tricks.
Edited by edlithgow on 27/12/2018 at 22:02
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