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Road charging - Gerry Sanderson

Heard on the grapevine that road charging per mile is back under discussion.

This is because the increase in electric vehicles had led to loss of revenue in VED.

HMG has said ploughing more VED into road repair.

So do not electric vehicles also cause wear and tear to our roads?

Hence IMHO they should pay a duty.

dvd

Road charging - TheGentlemanThug

A loss of revenue from VED has been an issue for years. The problem is that VED is based exclusively on CO2 emissions, because that was the hot topic at the time. Vehicles can have huge amounts of other pollutants, but as long as their CO2 output is low, the VED will be as well. Seems daft to me.

Personally, I think VED should be abolished. I'm not convinced that road charging is the way forward because I can't imagine how it could be enforced, but increasing fuel duty (despite its unpopularity) would be a good compromise.

Perhaps drivers of aging cars should be incentivised for keeping their cars going, providing they're reasonably efficient?

Edited by Bicycle_Repair_Man on 01/11/2018 at 15:26

Road charging - barney100

We pay more than enough fuel duty and much dosen't go towards roads either!

Road charging - Gibbo_Wirral

A loss of revenue from VED has been an issue for years. The problem is that VED is based exclusively on CO2 emissions, because that was the hot topic at the time. Vehicles can have huge amounts of other pollutants, but as long as their CO2 output is low, the VED will be as well. Seems daft to me.

Me too. My brother's car is larger, heavier and does far more miles than mine.

But he pays only £30 a year tax and I pay at least four times that.

Road charging - RT

There's also a loss of duty and VAT as drivers switch to EVs - and from this year cars just pay the flat rate £140, a lot less than CO2 rated vehicles.

By the time 2040 arrives, government revenue will be minimal using the present business model - EVs just ensure that road-pricing happens sooner or later.

Edited by RT on 01/11/2018 at 16:19

Road charging - daveyjp
Far easier with EVs as tracking data can be collected and transmitted easily enough.
Road charging - Andrew-T

HMG has said ploughing more VED into road repair.

I thought Philip Hammond had said something about ring-fencing the VED for road use ?

Road charging - Manatee

So do not electric vehicles also cause wear and tear to our roads?

Hence IMHO they should pay a duty.

dvd

Interesting question, not because the answer is obviously yes, but because the wear/damage caused by a vehicle is usually assumed to be in proportion to the fourth power of the relative axle weight and to the number of axles.

My car, loaded, weighs about 2 tonnes and has 2 axles. A 44 tonne lorry with 6 axles therefore will cause about 8,700 times as much damage to the road using the working assumption of this 'fourth power' law. It has been estimated that large goods vehicles are subsidised by taxpayers to the tune of £6bn. per year in terms of the damage they cause to the road network.

TRRL has also estimated that the relative damage to structurally weaker pavements follows a 6th power law, just for interest.

EVs weigh more, other things being equal, than petrol or diesel vehicles so should actually pay more towards road maintenance. A Nissan Leaf weighs about 20% more than VW Polo, so should contribute twice as much towards road maintenance - 1.2^4=2.07

Road charging - carl233

It was always going to happen, there is an agenda for this, The the elite in the end will get their way. I am just thankful that I will be retired and living abroad by that time. Given the state of society in the UK there is not the intelligence to really challenge this when it comes knocking.

Road charging - RT

It was always going to happen, there is an agenda for this, The the elite in the end will get their way. I am just thankful that I will be retired and living abroad by that time. Given the state of society in the UK there is not the intelligence to really challenge this when it comes knocking.

Governments or all colours have to raise money to pay for services, which have all been cut to the bone, and then some.

Road charging - drd63

Carl, who are the "elite" you refer to and why would they want road charging specifically? It is the duty of govt to look at ways of raising revenue and these methods have always changed over time.

Road charging - carl233

who are the "elite" you refer to and why would they want road charging specifically?

Do not wish to head off topic but there are governments within governments you only see the front end of this e.g. the actors that are voted in every so many years. Ever questioned why when governments change things tend to still carry on the same as before? Road charging is a key part of agenda 21 and agenda 30.

Road charging - Cris_on_the_gas

Look at most of Europe. They have many toll roads and the payment is based on distance travelled. Their roads on the whole are far superior to ours.

Road charging - Manatee

Logically, the well off (proxy for elite in this context) would be in favour of road charging because they can afford it, and it would reduce traffic by keeping the poor at home.

I agree that there is an "establishment" in this country based mainly around business interests and wealth that looks after itself whoever is nominally in power.

Road charging - barney100

Bloke I know years ago retired and sold his expensive house and moved to the Canaries. Spent quite a few years there and for some reason or other decided to come back to the UK. House prices had rocketed over here and he was unable to get a house anything like the one he used to have. The grass is always greener.

Road charging - Terry W

We kid ourselves that any increase will be applied to improving and maintaining the road network - the reality is that it goes into the Treasury pot to be allocated as the party in power decide - eg NHS, education, law and order etc. There are some issues which do make road pricing into an easy target:

Generates tax lost to changing technology - reduced fuel usage, EVs etc.

Reduces demand for road capacity

Reduced travel will reduce greenhouse gas emissions (electric is just a remote emission)

Reduces local pollution with congestion charges/bans

Road charging - drd63
Worth looking at the details of the budget, c£30b to be spent on strategic road network funded by ved and councils to get extra £480m for repairs to local roads. Not a bad result for us motorists when there are so many other calls on tax revenues.
Road charging - sandy56

Motorists have been paying £billions every year on tax, but the amount spent on roads is a small fraction of that. We are being bribed by our own money, again, and again, and again.

We don't have a Motorist supporter or advocate in our parliament. We don't even seem to have a strategy to deal with roads/traffic/ maintenance. Seems strange that all those supposed bright MP's didn't take that role on. I wonder why?

Anyone know the answer to that?

The AA and RAC gave that role up when they sold out to US hedge funds.

Road charging - Andrew-T

Motorists have been paying £billions every year on tax, but the amount spent on roads is a small fraction of that. We are being bribed by our own money, again, and again, and again..

Not quite sure how you feel 'bribed'. The general problem is that many people expect the Govt to provide communal services, while somehow paying little for them. You might argue that the NHS should be paid for by those who use it most, but I can't see that going down well either.

One thing I think they might do is abandon TV/radio licensing and roll the cost into overall taxation, since almost everyone has access to a TV or radio. That would avoid the cost of a licensing department, plus those detector vans .... And no more argument about free licences for over-75s - I would happily pay for mine.