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The question of which is best depends on the type of driving. For stop and start town driving, an automatic is naturally a better choice. For boy racers, a manual gearbox that lets the driver exploit the rev limiter will almost certainly be better.
Then there's the issue of cost. I buy manuals because there's a greater abundance of them, they're cheaper to buy, cheaper to run and cheaper to maintain, although the gap seems to be shrinking.
It's all about people's individual circumstances.
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The best one is the one you prefer, Shirley?
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I've had autos for years and can't say they are more expensive to run than a manual. Last Volvo auto went for 196,000 miles and I never thought about the gearbox.
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I've had TC autos on and off since 1972 when i got my mk3 Zodiac, which incidentally is the only one that ever gave me a problem, after using it for a couple of years i stripped the car out and banger raced it, after several meetings and the car thoroughly battered the gearbox would only drive in reverse so that's the direction it went on its last outing.
Wouldn't give you a thankyou for an automated manual no matter how many clutches it boasted (though in lorries they are proving amazingly reliable, better than the manuals because clutch abuse curbed) and i'd only want a CVT from someone like Toyota whom i trust.
I like the way TC autos drive, that infinitely controllable application of power for one, though the automatic Forester XT is a bit of beast in that power feeds straight in and it blasts off like a scalded cat, it would be a wheelspinning nightmare if it wasn't for the AWD.
Anecdote time, back in the days of the miners strike and the many convoys of police vans and minibuses, i was up north somewhere in the lorry driving up the motorway at around 60 mph when something on the other carriageway caught my eye, mainly a police Granada mk2 (so almost certainly automatic cos TC autos can be seriously quick going backwards) actually keeping pace and at one point overtaking me on the opposite carriageway hard shoulder, in reverse, that must have taken some controlling.
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My Dad used to have a Daf 55 (car) which had a CVT auto, it actually could go as fast in reverse as forwards!. Over the years I have grown more interested in Daf cars and would love to get hold of one. But through research I did discover that reverse racing was actually a thing in Netherlands, but when the Dafs came on the scene, they had to race in their own class. There is some highly amusing footage available online of these little Dafs haring along at ridiculous speed in reverse, crashing all over the place. Sad now of course, as there are so few left, but I guess it is the same with banger racing.
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Brilliant article about those Daf backwards racers, but be sure to read right to the end! bit.ly/2DMQeP0
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Given the sophistication of controls and systems commonplace in all but very basic cars it must rank as extraordinary that manual shifting with clutch and stick still predominates.
In the UK auto gearboxes are still sold as a premium item - they may cost a small amount more to produce but higher volumes would make the price difference trivial.
The efficiency of a manual shift may have been important 20+ years ago - but with increased power available in even base models, and more congestion/legislation the case for a manual shift has become only of interest to the boy racer brigade and a necessity for a few towing boats or horses etc.
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".... it must rank as extraordinary that manual shifting with clutch and stick still predominates."
It wouldn't predominate if people didn't still want manuals. Many - probably most - young people pass their driving test on a manual, so as not to be restricted to driving only autos: and no doubt they find manuals more entertaining to drive. I have to say - even at 70 so do I, although I love my automatic for long runs or if I'm going to drive in heavy traffic.
So there are still plenty of manuals still bought, probably a majority of under-2-litre cars. (Small automatics aren't exactly a ball of fire.) That may well remain the case until EVs take over.
Edited by Avant on 02/10/2018 at 00:20
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Always preferred manuals, the two autos I tried in recent years were certainly not my cup of tea.
Giullietta TCT and Yaris CVT.
However having just purchased a Alfa Giulia which has the same 8sp ZF gearbox as in the 3 series.
The thing is fantastic, you can’t even feel the changes.
My personal view is autos don’t suit low powered engines, never seemed to be in the right gear at the right time.
The Giulia has a 200bhp petrol engine and if all future autos are as good as this I will never go back to a manual.
Let’s hope it just keeps working ;-).
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I've always owned manual cars but I do like automatics too - just that it's never really occurred to me to buy one. On occasions when I've driven long distances in other people's automatics, I'm always surprised at how much less tiring the trip has been. One thinks that gear-changing becomes second nature and that we do it almost 'automatically', as it were. But it still takes its mental toll on a long trip, when compared to not having to think about gears or clutch at all for several hours on end.
I think that the days of multi-speed gearbox, whether manual or automatic, are numbered as we move towards electrically driven cars, (pure electric or range-extender hybrid) which only need a single-speed reduction gear which is permanently engaged.
Edited by Sofa Spud on 02/10/2018 at 10:32
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My Dad used to have a Daf 55 (car) which had a CVT auto, it actually could go as fast in reverse as forwards!. Over the years I have grown more interested in Daf cars and would love to get hold of one.
I had two of these, quite good performance and economical too, the biggest drawback was the need to frequently adjust the drive-belt tension. About 20 screws had to be undone to remove a plastic undertray for access to the adjusting screws. Admittedly I didn't drive slowly, creeping about like a little old lady might have minimised the need to adjust (and eventually replace) drive belts.
The bodywork was lightweight, thin metal so most will have succumbed to tin-worm by now, I suppose. A version was rebadged and heavier after Volvo bought DAF cars, not as nippy and replaced by Volvo 340, which were also initially CVT belt drive.
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I like the way TC autos drive, that infinitely controllable application of power for one, though the automatic Forester XT is a bit of beast in that power feeds straight in and it blasts off like a scalded cat, it would be a wheelspinning nightmare if it wasn't for the AWD.
Low first gear?
I've not driven the auto version but my manual has a low first, presumably for towing. It needs a quick change into second but I like it for the fact it preserves the clutch, and when you need to make a sharp getaway on a slippery surface like a rain soaked roundabout, it's superb. Absolutely flies forward.
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Low first gear?
I like it for the fact it preserves the clutch, and when you need to make a sharp getaway on a slippery surface like a rain soaked roundabout, it's superb. Absolutely flies forward.
Yes i think first might be quite low but the changes are so smooth (except for kickdown when all hell breaks loose) you don't notice its changed up, initial take up is not at all slush like as one finds in most TC boxes i've driven, it makes you take a bit of care when maneuvering if you need any more than tickover creep because it goes from creep to cor blimey instantly, the turbo seems to come on stream just as the TC engages fully so you could get it badly wrong if heavy footed, most importantly though the boss likes it.
As you say it makes easy work of pulling away from junctions, no matter how slippery or busy.
Might be doing some soundproofing on it, road noise is quite intrusive at speed, be interesting to see what difference the 16" winter wheels and tyres make when they go on (standard size is 215/55 x 17, and expensive), if no better then i'll be searching out some self adhesive sound pads again...i recall you doing your Forester, the sound seems to come from all around on this so some experimenting with blankets and duvets is probably on the cards to try and pin down the worst of the noise.
Very glad we had it LPG'd mind, because it likes a drink.
Edited by gordonbennet on 02/10/2018 at 19:34
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Might be doing some soundproofing on it, road noise is quite intrusive at speed, be interesting to see what difference the 16" winter wheels and tyres make when they go on (standard size is 215/55 x 17, and expensive), if no better then i'll be searching out some self adhesive sound pads again...i recall you doing your Forester, the sound seems to come from all around on this so some experimenting with blankets and duvets is probably on the cards to try and pin down the worst of the noise.
Very glad we had it LPG'd mind, because it likes a drink.
As standard there is a nod to soundproofing in the form of foam insulation around the rear suspension turrets but that's your lot. Everyone has their own opinion as to where the noise is coming from, but it made a big difference to mine soundproofing the boot ( I made it easy by laying a measured and cut section of mass loaded vinyl across the top, in effect using it as a boot liner, also MLV and foam under the back seat, it's just bare metal there. And the front doors.
If I was to do it again I would do the above plus have the front seats out and lay some insulation under the carpet over the main floor area. But what I've done has transformed it already, and I'm happy enough.
On my old commute for work into town (stop/start traffic) I was getting an average of 27mpg. Now with my pootling around mainly country lanes it's around 30/31mpg, occasionally using boost. I should think that the 2.5 especially linked to auto is a quite a bit thirstier. These old Subes have their quirks but they get under your skin :-)
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