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If anyone has a beakdown and is stopped on the hard shoulder or in lane 1 of a "smart" motorway.
Get out of the car and behind the barriers Immediately.
If there is no refuge move as afr forward from the vehicle as you can. when you are safe immediately dial 999.
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I'm not sure, but it seems from the thread title that you're trying to 'blame' the crash on the 'smart motorway' system.
We've got no idea of weather conditions, the speed of the car that struck the victim (the driver has been arrested on suspicion of, but not yet charged or convicted of dangerous driving.
For all we know, it could have been a glancing blow to the wing mirror of the car, which detached said wing mirror, which flew into the air and then struck the victim. .
Alternatively, the car may have been travelling at 130mph at the time of impact
Drawing any conclusions from the very limited information would be laughable, if the case wasn't so tragic.
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All points taken.
All live lane running, few if any street lights, for mile after mile there is armco immediately to the left of the now nearside line (no chance whatsoever of even the lightest car edging off the road as the car comes to a halt which anyone with susrvival instinct would), no hard shoulder refuge, so no you're dead right (pun not intended) it is no laughing matter, the whole concept of smart motorways is a very bad joke and should have been consigned to the dustbin like so many sticking plaster solutions.
Oh and just another thing, in elevated sections such as the M6 Birmingham, where exactly are you supposed to hide if you break down seeing as the verge is some 60ft below.
And the response times of thsose supposed to watching the cameras before putting up warnings is another joke, i myself have had several incidents of unwarned of stationary cars in live lanes, all west mids section, even in broad daylight you'd be surprised how quickly you come upon such things even at 50mph or thereabouts.
Edited by gordonbennet on 10/09/2018 at 18:26
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Smart motorways are anything but.
A way of apparently expanding capacity at low cost as many other consequential costs of proper road widening are avoided - bridges widened, adjacent slip roads relocated, land purchased etc etc.
They are potentally more dangerous than conventional motorways as the hard shoulder is eliminated and confusing where they operate part time only.
The only triumph is in the name - trying to convince the public they are smart when they actually represent a real degradation in quality and safety.
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The design of these systems gives my bretherin Highway Engineers a bad name - poor designs, whether because of poor decisions by managers or clients (councils or the HA) should never be endorsed by the teams doing the technical work. All too often (including in my own industry - construction), bad designs are allowed to get through based on this and 'value engineering' otherwise known as 'cost cutting'.
In my line of work, for the most part, this meant a pee'd off client with a X system that didn't do that good a job, but occasionally, as well as with road systems/furniture design, poor designs can result in serious injury and death. In my view, this had some impact on the case highlighted by this news report, as well as poor decisions by those directly involved.
Engineers need to start saying 'No' and stand up to clients and our bosses when they try and force us (for various reasons) to put forward poor quality designs or unduly hurry work to meet unrealistic deadlines. We're far too slient and regularly get bullied by these groups into doing thing we believe are wrong, sometimes even dangerous.
I didn't always do this myself, especially in the earlier part of my career, but I've taken a stand on several occasions since, sometime it worked, others not so much, but until more of us do this sort of thing or highlight failings to the media before they cause serious problems, such thing WILL continue to happen. I've now got out of this career as I was fed up with this constant BS and corner-cutting. The daft thing is that often, cutting corners and costs up front often leads to having to spend much, much more to rectify major issues later.
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Yet another tragedy and once again, inadequate design owing to penny-pinching/starved resources seems to be in the dock. There should not be a single stretch anywhere on the roads network without a full width hard shoulder and crash barrier. But, guess what, the roads are choked full and there's no money in the kitty.
Just out of curiosity, can anyone explain why Britain is one of very few European countries where a £2 hi-viz jacket is not required to be kept to hand inside the car in case of having to leave the car? It just might have made a difference in this case and many more like it.
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If there's no money in the kitty, whey are they spending millions that they haven't got on yet more smart motorways? It was only a matter of time before there was a fatality, which had a good chance of being avoided if there had been a hard shoulder.
Only little men in suits who don't often drive could come up with the idea that you have to break down in appointed places more than a mile apart. And they won't be stopped: part of the M4 is now going the same way.
Maybe the Mercedes driver in this case was going too fast or failed to concentrate: but what is a lorry driver supposed to do, however carefully they're driving, if a vehicle suddenly loses power in front of them, and has no hard shoulder to drift on to? There must be a potential situation where they just can't stop in time.
'Smart' is the new negative. My smartphone is anything but; the Smart car costs more than, say, an i10 or Picanto which can do a far better job; and smart motorways are the worst of the lot.
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If there's no money in the kitty, whey are they spending millions that they haven't got on yet more smart motorways? It was only a matter of time before there was a fatality, which had a good chance of being avoided if there had been a hard shoulder.
The hard shoulder is a damned dangerous place. AA, RAC etc have regular fatalities amongst their patrolmen attending hard shoulder breakdowns and plenty of drivers/passengers got mown down there too.
You might well be safer on smart/managed m/way with CCTV and, where there's no streetlighting infra red floodlights, than old style 3 lane plus hard shoulder set up.
What do the actual numbers for smart motorway KSI (Killed and Seriously Injured) versus those for previous/comparable conventional motorway tell us?
Edited by Bromptonaut on 11/09/2018 at 00:08
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I would be good to see some hard evidence to see what is the better solution, although we aren't exactly that far into the 'test' of 'smart' motorways with no hard shoulder - I think individual circumstances of the road layout/local terrain and weather patterns in each area will have an impact on the safety (or otherwise) of each system, as would whether motorists actually know about the changes in that area before driving through.
This case shows that many people don't know the revised procedures for what to do in the event of your vehicle breaking down, as well as possibly highlighting many people's distrust of such new systems that, to me at least, don't work that well to bring up-to-date, accurate information to the road user. Whether its better than the traditional system, I remain to be convinced.
I could very well have suffered a similar sticky end when I (stupidly) ran out of petrol many years ago in my old Nissan Micra on the A1 just after (south side) the M25 slip-on, having to push my car for 100+ metres along lane one (not the A1(M) - only north of that junction - so no hard shoulder) in the pouring rain and dark to a slip-off to a country lane (very fortunate) whilst many vehicles were barreling along at 70+ during the peak rush hour in the evening. It would've been far easier if I had a hard shoulder to use, and we can't afford smart motorways (cameras and gantries every 1/4 mile or so) everywhere.
I was lucky. I also learnt my lesson that day about leaving refilling too long.
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I would be good to see some hard evidence to see what is the better solution
Agreed. How many billions would it cost to add an extra lane? How many decades of legal wranglings with land and home owners who would have to give up their home and / or land for that extra lane?
Excusing the pun, the hard shoulder is a dated "dead" waste of space, and cars being supposedly more reliable than ever, there should be little need for it in this day and age, especially if you bother to maintain your car.
I've been in the smart lane one when a car has broken down. The signs all activated - lane one closed, lanes 2-4 reduced speed limit. The cars in all lanes gently bunched up and slowed down, people stuck behind the broken down car were able to move out into the next lane and everyone just got on with their journey. There was no 70mph ploughing into vehicles like some imagine.
This recent incident is a tragic one, but one I feel could have been avoided. I've lost count at the number of times I've seen people stood around a broken down car on the hard shoulder - or people still IN the car just because its raining.
Edited by Gibbo_Wirral on 11/09/2018 at 13:31
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The M25 got an extra lane (and retained the HS), but I guess that road is within shouting distance of Westminster?
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The M25 got an extra lane (and retained the HS), but I guess that road is within shouting distance of Westminster?
The M25 has been an almost continuous construction site ever since it opened. Some phases involved the construction of extra lanes, particularly on the M1/M40/M4/M3 segment. Large segments, particularly on the NE quadrant, are now all lane running with or without hard shoulder.
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The M25 got an extra lane (and retained the HS), but I guess that road is within shouting distance of Westminster?
There was talk of building a motorway tunnel below the M25 and a 6 lane bridge over the top to ease congestion, similar to plans Heathrow mentioned building from airport to M25- not so sure it will happen due to costs/safety
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It will not happen as to build even a new platform at a railway station costs million's of pounds in the UK. The M25 will continue to get worse with three lanes for HGV vehicles side by side leaving a single line for the private motorist, we have never had it so good.
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