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VW Polo - Long life oil changes - Leif
I have a new VW Polo due for its first service at 10k miles on Wednesday. They set it up for 10k servicing even though I do 25k miles a year. On Wednesday they will do the oil change and then a major service at 20k miles. Should I move to long life servicing after 20k miles? Is there any evidence that 20k oil changes are too infrequent? I ask as servicing is a pain, it means half a day taken up.
VW Polo - Long life oil changes - Andrew-T

Presumably your Polo has a petrol engine - or given your annual mileage it may well be a diesel. If it is, I would suggest that 10K miles is the longest you should wait belween oil (and filter) changes. The 'pain' of half a day for servicing may be trivial if you intend to keep the car for some years.

VW Polo - Long life oil changes - Leif
Sorry, yes petrol. 1 liter turbo 95 PS.
VW Polo - Long life oil changes - BMW Enthusiast

Personally I think that 10K oil changes are a waste of money especially if the car is still under warranty and serviced by a franchised dealer. My 5 Series had its first service in April at 18378 miles. The computer and mobile app is telling me that the next service will be due at 37857 miles. This may reduce but It all depends on how you drive the car. If it's constantly thrashed then this will shorten the life of the engine oil. All cars should have a condition based servicing system.

VW Polo - Long life oil changes - Energyman
I ran a Skoda Fabia and VW Golf, both diesel, on long life servicing, both engines sounded rougher towards the end of the service interval, , transformed with new oil, both got to 75-80000 I haven’t done it since on vehicles since, for the cost saving not worth it, also your car is given the once over at service, brakes checked etc, not worth the risk if you are on high mileage . Had 2 Ford Focus and Nissan Pulsar since, all similar mileage,. Only non service items on all these have been one leaking shock absorber and water pump failed, both on same focus. Service regularly and change oil on short intervals is my advice.
VW Polo - Long life oil changes - Bolt

Personally I think that 10K oil changes are a waste of money especially if the car is still under warranty and serviced by a franchised dealer. My 5 Series had its first service in April at 18378 miles. The computer and mobile app is telling me that the next service will be due at 37857 miles. This may reduce but It all depends on how you drive the car. If it's constantly thrashed then this will shorten the life of the engine oil. All cars should have a condition based servicing system.

Once my warranty runs out I will be going back to 6k oil filter changes and service, at present 12.5k, all my cars before this were serviced at 6k intervals Turbo or not, all sounded sweet as a nut and never gave any trouble

imo i think those that have long service intervals ask for trouble with modern engines regardless of what the manufacturer states, and some leave servicing longer than that. even in the 80s cars were serviced more often than some modern engines (those that looked after them) not many do now!

VW Polo - Long life oil changes - Oli rag

Many manufacturers are not interested in the longevity of a car, providing it makes it to the end of the warranty period. These long life oil intervals are all about cost savings for fleet customers.

VW Polo - Long life oil changes - Engineer Andy

Many manufacturers are not interested in the longevity of a car, providing it makes it to the end of the warranty period. These long life oil intervals are all about cost savings for fleet customers.

Quite right, and Auto Steve & Co are playing right into the manufacturer's hands by believing this. Notice how long service intervals are limited to mainly VAG and German cars plus a few other Euro makes and models. And yet, year after year, Japanese (except Nissans) cars outlast those I mentioned by several years, especially petrol engined ones.

Its why HJ recommends ALL cars get fresh oil of the manufacturer's recommended grade or better at least once a year or the 'old mileage limit of 9/10/12.5k as many cars from the 2000s have. IMHO, so-called 'premium' manufacturers want to hide the true (high) cost of running their vehicles, so they lengthen service intervals to 'reduce' maintenance costs during the warranty period, which for many makes hasn't gone up for nearly 20 years now. As many manufacturing groups have both premium and value brands (like VAG), they, in my view, can't say one has long service intervals and not the others as so many parts are the same or so similar in design that we know they should need maintenance at the same time.

Someone buying an older BMW that was services every 20k+ is going to find, more often than not that major problems arise far earlier than for an equivalent Lexus or Honda. As you say, the manufacturers don't care what happens once the warranty has expired, or at least the 6 year 'merchantable quality' sort-of guarantee that the EU has instituted, but is rarelt tested in the courts as regards cars. Down Under, things are much more robust in that regard, with some makes offering longer warranties and are forced by law to fix or fully compensate car owners well after the warranty is up if a major design fault causes an issue on a car.

Its noticeable that in countries that have cheaper and a greater adherence to short service intervals (as in Oz) and oil changes (US, Canada, Far East [HJ]) that cars in those countries, even from not-so-good makes, often end up lasting 300-500k miles, whereas most of those in Europe are lucky to make it to 150k before a major issue (and not necessarily corrosion - more likely engine related) makes the car a virtual write-off due to the high cost of the repair. All for not spending £150 - £300 every two years/20k miles or so extra in servicing for the first 3-5 years.

VW Polo - Long life oil changes - BMW Enthusiast

Many manufacturers are not interested in the longevity of a car, providing it makes it to the end of the warranty period. These long life oil intervals are all about cost savings for fleet customers.

Quite right, and Auto Steve & Co are playing right into the manufacturer's hands by believing this.

I buy a new car every 30 months due to excessive mileage coverage and that's why I stick with the longer service intervals. No point in me maintaining an engine every 10K miles to save someone else from future problems.

VW Polo - Long life oil changes - Engineer Andy

Many manufacturers are not interested in the longevity of a car, providing it makes it to the end of the warranty period. These long life oil intervals are all about cost savings for fleet customers.

Quite right, and Auto Steve & Co are playing right into the manufacturer's hands by believing this.

I buy a new car every 30 months due to excessive mileage coverage and that's why I stick with the longer service intervals. No point in me maintaining an engine every 10K miles to save someone else from future problems.

...and as a result it's worth less than one serviced every 9 - 12.5k miles and would be harder to sell. Ironically you'd save yourself shed loads of money buying a well-maintained (as per the miles I suggested) 1-2 year old car and running it for another 2-3 under that service arrangement. Some cars would still be under warranty (e.g. A Hyundai) when it's sold and thus you'd have the added peace of mind of that in case of any reliability issues.

VW Polo - Long life oil changes - Andrew-T

<< I stick with the longer service intervals. No point in me maintaining an engine every 10K miles to save someone else from future problems. >>

That's exactly the attitude most advisers on this forum tell buyers to avoid, much the same as a rental company getting rid as soon as servicing falls due. But if you are just trading in to a dealer I suppose that buck passes with the car.

VW Polo - Long life oil changes - Engineer Andy

<< I stick with the longer service intervals. No point in me maintaining an engine every 10K miles to save someone else from future problems. >>

That's exactly the attitude most advisers on this forum tell buyers to avoid, much the same as a rental company getting rid as soon as servicing falls due. But if you are just trading in to a dealer I suppose that buck passes with the car.

But surely you'd get a lower offer in PX if you only serviced it at 20k instead of 10k (or 25k instead or 12.5k)? I would, if I was the dealer, in case I resold the car onto another punter and it developed a fault outside of the manufacturer's warranty buy inside mine. Just to offset the risk of issues related to a long time/distance between oil and filter changes, and especially on upmarket/more expensive cars.

Are 'service indicators' so sophisticated that they can combine the type of usage (speed, acceleration, whether the engine is laboured, low speed acceleration and braking in heavy traffic, faster country driving or motorway miles, pollution levels [air intake], how often its run from cold or otherwise and the length of journey, how the clutch is wearing) all to tell how the oil filters, moving parts, spark plugs, etc are all doing.

Do all the componets/areas related to these have loads of sensors and the ECU a huge storage and processing capacity to actually make such a determination (over just using the car) like a qualified mechanic would? Despite all the tech and money in that sport, F1 cars still rely on people interpreting the data before deciding whether to bring a car into the pits in advance of a serious/terminal issue.

I'm personally not convinced by service indicators for the same reason I'm not as far as long service intervals that suddenly shot up from 9 - 12.5k to double that in only a few years. Fully synthetic oils may have contributed some to the increase, but engine oil isn't the only thing that makes up services on normal 10k intervals and, in my view, may well be offset by the use of a far higher percentage of modern cars in heavy traffic, urban journeys that rarely get out of 3rd/4th gear or go much over 40mph if at all, especially when used from cold for short journeys.

I've seen friends and colleagues who've owned (mainly German) cars with service indicators that, despite them using the car in the way I've described above, STILL says the gap to the next service is 20k+ and no different to if it was primary used as a motorway car in light traffic.

I suppose today with our me-me-me (and stuff everyone else) society that I'm not surprised that so many people go along with obviously sharp practices designed to pretend a car is afforable to run (when it isn't), but also so many idiots (IMHO) buy into this buying so-called 'premium' make cars at the 5-7yo mark and then wonder why they lose ££££ scrapping the car when the engine goes bang a year or two down the road.

I suppose they've only got on one side a (possibly, but seemingly not by some comments here) guilty conscience or themselves to blame for buying into the hype of long service intervals/oil changes = no problems as the car ages. Ironically this makes more money for the main dealers and manufacturer and far less for the independent workshops who could, in theory, do a LOT of business keeping older cars on the road in a cost-effective way if people bothered to look after them throughout their life. Funny how we always support the small/idependent trader until our neglect of a product to pass the buck onto the next owner (mug) comes into the equation.

Maybe I'm too much of an idealist.

VW Polo - Long life oil changes - Leif

Many manufacturers are not interested in the longevity of a car, providing it makes it to the end of the warranty period. These long life oil intervals are all about cost savings for fleet customers.

Quite right, and Auto Steve & Co are playing right into the manufacturer's hands by believing this.

I buy a new car every 30 months due to excessive mileage coverage and that's why I stick with the longer service intervals. No point in me maintaining an engine every 10K miles to save someone else from future problems.

If you do about 30,000 miles a year, it might be cheaper to kept the car for five years, and do 10,000 mile servicing. However your does indicate why I buy new rather than a 2-3 year old car.

VW Polo - Long life oil changes - Avant

I think we should be asking you advice on this, Leif!

You ran a VW Up for over 100,000 miles: that's a small engine for a high annual mileage but it clearly did the job well for you. I don't know what your oil-change regime was for the Up, but I suggest you follow it also for the Polo.

I think that if HJ saw this, he'd advise you to stay with the 10k oil change: his experience suggests that this leads to longer engine life.

VW Polo - Long life oil changes - John F

Long life or hard life? I would happily leave 'long life' oil - or even ordinary oil for that matter, in a rarely used engine for several years, but I have always changed a regularly used engine's oil at 10-12,000m. 100,000m is nothing these days - over twenty years ago I had over 240,000m in one car and 190,000m in one before that with just cheap oil changes - it doesn't take long, and the engines still ran well when they were disposed of. Changing it at only 6000m or fewer is foolish (unless it's a classic car or very old oil), wasteful and polluting, unless you want the engine to last for 500,000m or more.

VW Polo - Long life oil changes - Leif

I think we should be asking you advice on this, Leif!

You ran a VW Up for over 100,000 miles: that's a small engine for a high annual mileage but it clearly did the job well for you. I don't know what your oil-change regime was for the Up, but I suggest you follow it also for the Polo.

I think that if HJ saw this, he'd advise you to stay with the 10k oil change: his experience suggests that this leads to longer engine life.

Yes I know HJ would say change the oil every 10K miles. I was wondering if the others here were of the same opinion.

I did run an Up on 10K oil changes for 130,000 miles. However, I'm pretty sure the dealer did not do the last oil change, as a month later the AA had to visit for a flat battery, and when they checked the oil they found it was at the lowest point on the dipstick. I also ran an old style Ford Ka for 160,000 miles on 10K oil changes.

It's looking like the consensus is an oil change every 10K miles. Web sources have suggested that 20K oil changes are attractive to fleets who sell their cars on after a few years. In other words they do not care about long term engine care.

VW Polo - Long life oil changes - FoxyJukebox

The HJ god given guideline is an oil change once a year or at each 10,000 miles.

VW Polo - Long life oil changes - Leif

Thanks all. The concensus is clearly 10K oil changes, so I'll do that to be safe.

VW Polo - Long life oil changes - SLO76
“Is there any evidence that 20k oil changes are too infrequent?”

Plenty, look at all of the issues particularly with timing chains on BMW’s that’ve been neglected by firms trying to save money by infrequent oil changes. Turbo failure on modern diesels is also much more common today and again this is caused by neglect. This is particularly important on your small capacity turbocharged engine.

Turbos run at incredible speeds and temperatures, they require regular oil changes with the correct grade and quality of oil or you’ll suffer premature turbo failure which can if the blades disintegrate destroy the engine. Again the best example is the rather notorious PSA 1.6 diesel that’s popular in many fleet favourites like the Ford Focus and suffers badly from long life scrimping servicing.

I wouldn’t touch a car that hadn’t seen fresh oil at least once a year or 12,000 miles or less, it’s a false economy and even though I spend more on servicing my cars I always get top money when I come to sell them on thanks to that properly stamped up history.

Edited by SLO76 on 21/08/2018 at 16:17

VW Polo - Long life oil changes - nick62

Take a hint from racing (albeit motorbikes where revs are higher and the gearbox is in the same oil).

Change the oil every 100 miles!

Edited by nick62 on 22/08/2018 at 00:27

VW Polo - Long life oil changes - Falkirk Bairn

My son's BMWs in Texas are annual oil change or 10/12,000 miles for the same car that is allowed to go 18K or 2 years in UK.

Where a son works, an oil company, there is a strong following for oil changes at 6 months/6,000 miles - typically under $100 even at a BMW Franchise, $50/$60 at a lube service!

I was in at my Indie yesterday to book a service - he drops the oil & gets on with other things -15 minutes later after the sump has dripped its last the sump plug goes in & it is re-filled. 15 mins lets the last of the gunge drip out before re-filling. Old fashioned method but a quality job - no glass palace but good work.

VW Polo - Long life oil changes - John F

Where a son works, an oil company, there is a strong following for oil changes at 6 months/6,000 miles

Well....what a surprise!

VW Polo - Long life oil changes - Falkirk Bairn

Oil company that drills for oil & gas & pipes it to a port/refinery - they do not refine or produce a finished product - but the staff are all graduate engineeers or science based.

So know something about wear & tear of engines both heavy diesel & jet .

VW Polo - Long life oil changes - Nomag

Interesting discussion. My IX35 was on 20k/annual intervals, I did c. 15k per annum and so it got oil at that interval until I disposed of it earlier this year (at 6.5 years old)

I now have a Leon mkIII diesel. I purchased it at just over 2 years old. It had its first service on its second birthday and 15k miles. Presumably just prior to handing back to leasing company. This did not trouble me one bit, OK two years, but not that many over 12k miles.

I continue to do 15-16k miles per year. The car is set up on long life servicing so may well not ask for a service after a year. However, I'd prefer to have annual servicing and I'm yet to decide whether to go to a dealer or an indepedent for its next. If I went to a dealer, I guess they'd check for any updates etc. while it was still in warranty (just). But will they reset the service indicator if it gets an oil change then?

I don't worry about our Sorrento - it has 20k mile/annual service intervals but a 7 year warranty, they can't really argue a mechanical failure within warranty providing you've kept to their service intervals. It does 17k a year at the mo, so serviced annually. I shall dispose of it prior to warranty expiring.

As to getting more for a car if you've kept to better than the required service schedule, maybe to a private seller, but I don't believe a dealer would offer you more. Neither would WBAC. They are only interested in ensuring it has a "FSH" which of course is just sticking to what the manufacturer says.

VW Polo - Long life oil changes - Engineer Andy

My son's BMWs in Texas are annual oil change or 10/12,000 miles for the same car that is allowed to go 18K or 2 years in UK.

Where a son works, an oil company, there is a strong following for oil changes at 6 months/6,000 miles - typically under $100 even at a BMW Franchise, $50/$60 at a lube service!

I was in at my Indie yesterday to book a service - he drops the oil & gets on with other things -15 minutes later after the sump has dripped its last the sump plug goes in & it is re-filled. 15 mins lets the last of the gunge drip out before re-filling. Old fashioned method but a quality job - no glass palace but good work.

To be fair to those bemoaning many of us agreeing with HJ to having the 'standard' 9-12.5k or annual (whichever comes first) serrvices (including oil and filter changes), many countries around the world have different servicing intervals because of the climate in that country - hot and dusty climates will require the car to work harder under very hot conditions, and so filters and oil will likely need replacing sooner.

As an example, my 12yo Mazda3 requires it to be serviced every 12.5k miles or 1 year (whichever comes first), but Down Under, the interval is, I think 10,000 km (6.5k miles), even on the latest model. Daft thing is that the overall (say over 50k miles) cost of it (I checked) is quite a bit lower than in the UK despite it needing servicing more often.

UK servicing costs are horrendous when compared to many other countries, and us HJ and Falkirk says, if we had franchises of affordable lube bays, most of our cars would last far longer. Our way of owning cars is all backwards - spend £££ when new to pay for the glass palaces and huge bonuses of the sales staff/management, scrimp on the upkeep afterwards or moan (as I do) about high servicing prices. Maybe HJ's got it right moving out of the UK.

VW Polo - Long life oil changes - gordonbennet

Remember cars don't last long in the UK generally, between excess use of road salt and the image problem for many of owning an old (or the wrong badge) car, hence rapid depreciation, standard UK cars don't generally have an especially long life expectancy compared to some other parts of the world.

Of course there are long lived cars in this country too, often special models which often lead pampered lives with well heeled owners, and there are many standard cars owned and looked after (including underbody care) by competent indy or home mechanics who generally give the maker's joke service schedules a good ignoring.

We owned a mk6 Hiulx from new for a few years, that had a 9000 mile or annual service schedule, but in more enlightened countries where reliability might mean the difference between life and death, that schedule was still 9k but kms.