Nissan Note - Timing chain & engine damage - what to do next? | Technical matters | Back Room Forum

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Sun 19 Aug 2018 18:05

Nissan Note - Timing chain & engine damage - what to do next? - Joanna England

Hi everyone,

I'm new to this forum. I haven't been able to find any other posts on this topic, but please forgive me if I missed any.

I have a 1.2L Petrol Nissan Note Dig-S from 2014. I bought it last year and it's done 26,000 miles.

Unfortunately the timing chain seems to have broken. This is a part which, as I understand it, is designed to last the lifetime of the car. Due to it breaking there is quite a bit of damage to my engine and it will be a very expensive repair. As the car is out of warranty I've been told that Nissan are unlikely to do anything to help me, even though the car has such a low mileage and this part should not have failed. The car has been properly serviced and the oil changed as recommended, and I have the service book as evidence.

It's been recovered to a local garage, who have given me 3 options:

(1) Have the car recovered to Nissan. They will do 2 hours of diagnostics (costing £200). There is no guarantee that I will be able to make any sort of claim against Nissan (and even if I can the diagnostics isn't refundable). Including the recovery, it is likely to cost £400 - £500 without any repairs.

(2) Try and source a secondhand engine - I'm not really sure where to start.

3) Have the engine repaired, which is likely to cost around £1,200. They will need to strip the engine down, they mentioned something about a header plate, and also send the car away to have the engine skimmed.

I'm not sure how I will afford these repairs, and I feel angry that this has happened at only 26,000 miles. Is it unrealistic to expect anything from Nissan now the warranty is over? Does anyone have any experience with getting parts replaced after the warranty expires, if the part is clearly designed to last for many years, but has failed early?

Any advice would be appreciated! Thanks

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Sun 19 Aug 2018 20:10

Nissan Note - Timing chain & engine damage - what to do next? - Railroad.

I deeply sympathise with you, but even though you say a timing chain is designed to last the lifetime of the car, in reality it's never going to. Having said that it's very unfortunate that it's failed so early, as in this case. Did you buy the car from a Nissan dealer? If so can you try to appeal to their better nature and get them to meet you partway? It's unlikely that the car will still be covered by the manufacturer's warranty but that doesn't mean they won't go some way to help you.

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Sun 19 Aug 2018 20:14

Nissan Note - Timing chain & engine damage - what to do next? - gordonbennet

If the service history is impeccable, and all done at a Nissan garage on time on mileage, then as it's only 1 year out of warranty i would be expecting Nissan to make a decent if not full contribution to this issue, if it's been serviced elsewhere then goodwill will be more difficult.

But, no one must touch or dismantle the engine before Nissan have a chance to inspect it, if it's already been part dismantled by another garage then the waters have already been muddied.

If the Nissan dealer where you have it serviced won't play ball...they should sort this all out for you...then you'll have to go straight to Nissan UK.

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Sun 19 Aug 2018 21:15

Nissan Note - Timing chain & engine damage - what to do next? - Joanna England

Thank you for the replies.

Unfortunately I didn't buy it from Nissan, it was purchased last year from a Ford dealership.

Also it hasn't been serviced by Nissan either. It was serviced twice by Bosch before I owned it, and once at a local garage since I owned it.

As for the garage where it is now, I'm not too sure how much work they've done on it and whether they've dismantled the engine at all.

It sounds unlikely that I'll get anywhere with Nissan. But I just can't accept that the car needs such major repairs after only 26,000 miles. I feel inclined to argue my case with them (politely of course). Unfortunately it will cost me a few hundred pounds just for them to look at it and get involved.

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Sun 19 Aug 2018 21:58

Nissan Note - Timing chain & engine damage - what to do next? - gordonbennet

In that case it's a difficult one, in theory it's possible it only needs some new valves (some most likely will have hit the piston crowns and been bent) and a new chain and tensioners, but a full strip down will be on the cards to see if the timing chain did any damage to its casing or if there is sprocket damage, or the pistons could be damaged by hitting those valves, plus a few other possibles, but several hours engine strip down by someone who knows what they are about will be needed just for full appraisal let alone for rebuilding.

Those hours might just as well be spent removing the engine wholesale and slotting a known used unit from a crash damaged write off in its stead.

The problem you have is in sourcing a good engine, if you source it and it proves to be a dud (you have no idea of the mileage of a unit, only the breakers word) you could be footing another remove and refit labour bill, so if your garage is prepared to play ball it would be best if they sourced one from a breaker they know and trust and quoted you for a complete job.

You have our sympathy for what its worth.

OK its too late now but this shows the value of keeping nearly new cars in the dealer network for servicing until at least a respectable time after warranty has expired, and the undoubted value of say a Kia which would (again assuming correct main dealer servicing) would still be under warranty for another three years, and several other makers offer rock solid 5 year warranties.

i am of course assuming the NIssan had a 3 year makers warranty, and no approved used warranty still in date from the selling Ford dealer?

Edited by gordonbennet on 19/08/2018 at 22:00

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Sun 19 Aug 2018 22:24

Nissan Note - Timing chain & engine damage - what to do next? - SLO76

Today’s engines are highly oil specific. You must make sure the correct grade of oil is used especially on a chain driven engine like this which is why I always recommend a main dealer or a genuine specialist for servicing. Yes it will cost a bit more but I’ve seen what goes on behind the workshop doors in many a garage and fast fit establishment and one of the most common problems is that they bulk buy in oil which is then all too often incorrectly used in every car through the door.

I’ll wager that the non-franchise garages which have carried out the servicing have been using the wrong oil which should be 0w-30 fully synthetic. If they’ve just been firing in any old cheap 10w-40 then this could explain the early failure of the chain. You can therefore understand why you’re unlikely to get any recompense from Nissan if they cannot verify how it has been maintained.

Look through your receipts and service book to see if there’s any note of the oil that has been used then contact the service dept of you local Nissan dealer to verify what should have been used. If it’s incorrect you could have a basis to go after the garage that was looking after it.

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Tue 29 Jan 2019 04:24

Nissan Note - Timing chain & engine damage - what to do next? - edlithgow

T. If they’ve just been firing in any old cheap 10w-40 then this could explain the early failure of the chain.

HOW?

You MAY be right, dunno.

But without some (preferably non-anecdotal) evidence, or at least a plausible hypothesis for 10W40 breaking a chain, its just an unsupported (and, on the face of it, fairly implausible) statement.

There'll be more viscous drag on the chain on cold startup, sure, but its a bit of a stretch (NPI) to believe that is going to break it.

Only thing at all plausible I can think of would be slower operation of a hydraulic timing chain tensioner, which might leave the chain a bit loose on startup IF the design didn't incorporate an anti-drain valve to maintain tension.

Why would they leave one out?

Edited by edlithgow on 29/01/2019 at 04:38

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Mon 10 Aug 2020 22:13

Nissan Note - Timing chain & engine damage - what to do next? - focussed

Thank you for the replies.

Unfortunately I didn't buy it from Nissan, it was purchased last year from a Ford dealership.

Also it hasn't been serviced by Nissan either. It was serviced twice by Bosch before I owned it, and once at a local garage since I owned it.

As for the garage where it is now, I'm not too sure how much work they've done on it and whether they've dismantled the engine at all.

It sounds unlikely that I'll get anywhere with Nissan. But I just can't accept that the car needs such major repairs after only 26,000 miles. I feel inclined to argue my case with them (politely of course). Unfortunately it will cost me a few hundred pounds just for them to look at it and get involved.

The Ford dealership you bought the car from is responsible in consumer law. Not Nissan nor any Nissan dealer. You need to contact the Ford dealer who sold you the car and firmly put the ball in their court. They were quite happy to sell you the car so they should be equally happy to repair it at their cost now it has failed at a ridiculously low mileage.

They won't be happy of course, so the best advice is to book a free half hour session with a local solicitor who should be able to advise you as to your rights and the way forward in this matter

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Mon 20 Aug 2018 00:27

Nissan Note - Timing chain & engine damage - what to do next? - Andrew-T

(2) Try and source a secondhand engine - I'm not really sure where to start.

It's a long time ago now, but the timing belt on my daughter's 205 failed at 50K miles, and a replacement engine was fitted at a cost of £550 in a low-cost part of the country. That may be the 'simplest' option, but I would guess that allowing for inflation it would be £1000 or more. Probably not too difficult for places that specialise in this kind of repair to find a salvaged engine. The Note is not an ancient model yet and they should be available.

But chase up the goodwill business first, obviously. Good luck.

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Mon 20 Aug 2018 07:29

Nissan Note - Timing chain & engine damage - what to do next? - Oli rag

If you decide to buy a secondhand engine, there are lots listed on ebay from around £600 upwards. Some come with a 90 day warranty.

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Mon 20 Aug 2018 18:43

Nissan Note - Timing chain & engine damage - what to do next? - John F

This is almost unbelievable. Chains elongate at high mileage and wrong/dirty oil (although 20-50 was perfectly OK for decades - why the insistence on 0-30 these days?). But to break at such a low mileage is almost unheard of. Must be a fluke. Or heavily clocked? Who makes Nissan's chains? If you can establish the manufacturer, e.g.Reynold, FebiBilstein etc. and demonstrate a dud link you might get some help with this. I do hope so. Nissan has form re chain problems....

topclassactions.com/lawsuit-settlements/lawsuit-ne.../

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Mon 20 Aug 2018 23:27

Nissan Note - Timing chain & engine damage - what to do next? - SLO76

“Who makes Nissan's chains?”

No idea but it’s a common issue on later chain driven Nissan’s. The old Primeras and Almeras were bulletproof, chain issues were almost unheard of but post Renault takeover (not really a merger before anyone pipes in) quality tanked as did driving dynamics. The first gen Almera was a bit dull to look at but it was a great drive, I couldn’t believe how bad the next gen was in comparison or the Primera compared to the outstanding first gen model.

Nissan today are no more reliable than the French which is a crying shame when I think back to the confidence I had in the products from the 80’s and 90’s. I had a waiting list for Bluebird’s, the 1.8 GS especially. You knew if you sold anything from the 90’s in particular that the customer would have a good ownership experience. The 1993 Micra’s was a real joy in particular. Looked like Noddy’s car but was a hoot to drive and would run and run. Even the driving schools couldn’t kill them.

Edited by SLO76 on 20/08/2018 at 23:33

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Fri 28 Aug 2020 20:47

Nissan Note - Timing chain & engine damage - what to do next? - Dorset123

I worked in a large Nissan dealer up to 1 year ago as the Workshop Foreman and also made all the warranty claims for 20 years.

I have never seen a cam chain break on one of these engines. The normal reason why camchains fail is due to lack of oil changes, today engines are working at their limit so if you delay changing engine oil it will cause problems. These engine require a certain grade of oil if it has been changed at a non Nissan dealer did they use the right type ?

Nissan will not help if the car is over 5 years old and if it hasn't been serviced in the Nissan network.

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Mon 28 Jan 2019 22:37

Nissan Note - Timing chain & engine damage - what to do next? - Buckles

Hi, I have the same model as you and have the exact same issue. I've had it just under two years and it's done 30000 miles. It might be complete coincidence of course but I wonder if the 2014 model has a fault given Nissan's history with timing chains?

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Mon 28 Jan 2019 23:58

Nissan Note - Timing chain & engine damage - what to do next? - focussed

All this talk about the quality of chains and what oil to use isn't helping this lady.

From past experience that posters have had regarding getting Nissan to back up their shoddy engineering, you've got more chance taking tea with the man in the moon.

Use this website from Citizens Advice to clarify what your options are, for one thing, you said you bought this car last year but you don't say when last year, it might have a bearing on what actions you can take.

www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/buying-or-repai.../

Please let us all know what actions you took and the result.

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Mon 10 Aug 2020 11:51

Nissan Note - Timing chain & engine damage - what to do next? - Rob Smit

www.nissanproblems.com/timing-chain/

Seems nissan knows whole lot more about these issues.

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Mon 10 Aug 2020 17:44

Nissan Note - Timing chain & engine damage - what to do next? - edlithgow

www.nissanproblems.com/timing-chain/

Seems nissan knows whole lot more about these issues.

"Every internal combustion engine has a timing chain or belt."

This is not true. Not the point of the article, I know, but this kind of thing is irritating and undermines credibility

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Mon 10 Aug 2020 19:14

Nissan Note - Timing chain & engine damage - what to do next? - galileo

www.nissanproblems.com/timing-chain/

Seems nissan knows whole lot more about these issues.

"Every internal combustion engine has a timing chain or belt."

This is not true. Not the point of the article, I know, but this kind of thing is irritating and undermines credibility

One obvious example was the side valve Ford V8 built from the1930s, widely used in WW2 and after. (I briefly had a Ford V8 Pilot in the 1960s)

No chain or belt, a fibre gear drove the camshaft directly. Even earlier, W,O,Bentley drove the camshafts with mechanical linkages based on his early years in railway workshops. Another method is to use bevel gears and shaft between crank and camshaft, I'm sure there are other systems too.

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Mon 10 Aug 2020 19:57

Nissan Note - Timing chain & engine damage - what to do next? - gordonbennet

Much later on Ford still using those fibre gears on the V4 and V6 Essex engines as i recall, good engines overall especially the V6 (V4 better as low compression in Transit, HC V4s blew CHGs regularly), if only they hadn't used that silly hexagonal drive shaft for the oil pump, which has a history of failure whatever make used it.

Edited by gordonbennet on 10/08/2020 at 19:58

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Mon 10 Aug 2020 21:19

Nissan Note - Timing chain & engine damage - what to do next? - Big John

Much later on Ford still using those fibre gears on the V4 and V6 Essex engines as i recall, good engines overall especially the V6 (V4 better as low compression in Transit, HC V4s blew CHGs regularly), if only they hadn't used that silly hexagonal drive shaft for the oil pump, which has a history of failure whatever make used it.

The hexaganal drive shaft for the oil pump was a bad failure point on some Fords - I had one fail on an Essex V6 - result seized big ends - actually just needed shells in the end as somehow the crank was fine. Many years later the same happened on a 2.0 Auto mkII Capri - managed to stop just about in time with no damage - the 2.0 Pinto engine also has a bloomin hex drive shaft feeding the oil pump from the base of the distributor.

As mentioned above the Ford Essex v6 had a fibre wheel that ran directly from the crank, however this could fail - it was designed to be sacrificial compared to the crank so it was always the fibre wheel that wore out not the gear on the crank. This is the same in effect as a cambelt or chain failing but usually you heard a knocking noise first and if it did fail it was usually a non interference engine er unless you had a high lift cam as I usually had in those days!. The Essex V6 was as standard a tourquey engine that didn't rev that well - porting and a higher lift cam would transform the performance. Liked a drink or 6 of petrol though!

The Ford Essex V4 was not as good as they were fitted with an extra balance shaft to the fibre wheel assembly and those extra forces/harmonics caused them to fail earlier taking the fibre wheel with it. People in the know knobled the balance shaft assembly! This engine also was used in some Saabs at the time.

Edited by Big John on 10/08/2020 at 21:27

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Wed 2 Sep 2020 20:15

Nissan Note - Timing chain & engine damage - what to do next? - Dorset123

This is a US website the spec of Nissan cars in the US is different to our cars. The vehicles will be made in different factories and have different companies making the parts so a totally pointless website to refer to.

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Thu 3 Sep 2020 02:53

Nissan Note - Timing chain & engine damage - what to do next? - edlithgow

This is a US website the spec of Nissan cars in the US is different to our cars. The vehicles will be made in different factories and have different companies making the parts so a totally pointless website to refer to.

Depends. I'd assume they were the same unless I knew they were different, rather than the other way around. Global product for the global marketplace.

Its as well to bear in mind the possibility of differences, of course, but I think you overstate your point.

The Taiwan 1997 Honda Accord, for example is different to the US model, but information on the US model is still of value, especially since it is the only information available.

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Sun 6 Sep 2020 09:48

Nissan Note - Timing chain & engine damage - what to do next? - Dorset123

For an example. A Nissan Micra that was made at Sunderland was very similar to the Japanese spec Nissan March to look at but all the parts were made in a different place. The Sunderland model used parts sourced in Europe the Japanese model used parts sourced in the Far East and the parts in most cases cannot be swapped from one car to another.

Also cars are spec in a different way eg the Japanese models don't have the same rust treatment as cars sold in Northern Europe.

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Fri 28 Aug 2020 23:34

Nissan Note - Timing chain & engine damage - what to do next? - Dorset123

What history with Timing Chains. Some of the K12 Micras and Almeras had timing chain issues but when you looked into the service history on those cars a service had always been missed or carried out late that is not Nissans fault that is the owners fault.

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Nissan Note - Timing chain & engine damage - what to do next?

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