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Boxer - 3rd party video used for prosecution - Dripfedfredd

I'm a named driver on the bosses van.

I got 3 points in march for speeding through a traffic light camera (on green) that had sneekily been upgraded to clock speeding.
So 55 on a 40 dual carriageway to which I took the 3 points and a fine as a lesson learnt.

I do about 1000 miles per week most of which is motorways and I now use the van speed limiter on all roads to keep me legal.

2 weeks a go some t#%^ sent in his dash cam footage to the police showing my van closely following a hgv through a red light. Hgv was amber/red and my van was about 1 -2 second red.
His footage was on a next base camera showing time and date.
It was forward facing and it filmed the van passing him on the left in the same direction ( so no driver shot)
My boss says it's me but I don't remember taking that particular route on that day.
And since the speeding fine I've been triple careful so certainly not jumping lights.

Our lock up is 1/4 mile from this incident so both my boss and I both use these roads several times daily in that van.
He's adamant im taking the fine and given job security I'm short of ammunition to fight him.

There is a high council Cctv Dome camera over the junction ( traffic light/roundabout) but it could be looking anywhere.

The police seem to have gone straight for prosecution rather that questioning the accuracy of the footage.
If his date and time are wrong how are we supposed to know who was driving?

Has anybody ever come across 3rd party footage?

Help and advice would be appreciated.

The first notice arrived on the 24/7 so he has 2 weeks to accept , deny or name me.

Thanks
Dave
Boxer - 3rd party video used for prosecution - Bromptonaut

Police/CPS are in a cleft stick. Plenty out there criticising 'cos they are reticent about prosecuting on basis of dash cam, or cyclecam, evidence. When they do so sender of footage gets labelled as a t#%^ .

Fact you attribute your speeding conviction to a 'sneekily upgraded' camera tells us more.

I've no idea how 3rd party footage plays v S172 requirement to identify driver. You need to researsch that.

Boxer - 3rd party video used for prosecution - RobJP

The dash cam date and time are highly unlikely to be wrong. The GPS unit in the dash cam gets regular checks on exact time (to within thousandths of a second), because GPS relies on perfectly accurate timekeeping (think about it, the more exact you know where you are and what speed you're doing, the more accurate your record of time needs to be)

So fighting it on that basis is a complete failure.

Now, it is a LEGAL obligation on your boss to keep accurate records of who is driving a vehicle, and when. Failure to do so is a criminal offence.

So it isn't you in a pickle quite as much as you think - he's the one in trouble.

Boxer - 3rd party video used for prosecution - FiestaOwner

A couple of comments.

Do you know if the dash cam has GPS? Many people don't get a dash cam with GPS, because they don't want it recording their speed. If it doesn't have GPS, the date and time need to be set manually.

Even a dash cam with GPS, needs to be set for the correct time zone (ie GMT +1). My dash cam (even if using the GPS module) needs to be manually changed twice a year to take account of daylight saving time. Has the user set it up correctly?

For my work, in addition to the vehicle log sheet record thats my employer keeps, I keep my own record of vehicles driven (reg number, date/ time/ mileage/ location (in and out)).

I would assume that the Police will have a statement from who ever submitted the footage, that the date and time are correct! Don't know if you could check that (if you receive your own NIP).

Can't advise you on how to proceed.

Boxer - 3rd party video used for prosecution - daveyjp
Agree with Rob. Where you have shared vehicles there should also be a system for recording useage for exactly this reason.

If not the registered keeper is the one in the hole, not an emplyee they say was driving.

This may become more of an employer employee matter and for that it may be worth you giving a call to ACAS helpline.
Boxer - 3rd party video used for prosecution - Leif
The fact that you say ‘sneakily upgraded’ suggests you don’t care about safety. 55 mph means your speedo was displaying 60 mpg unless it is a special accurate one, which is a huge difference from the speed limit. You deserved to get caught.

However, I do have sympathy for your predicament. How long have you been employed? If less than two years, then you have absolutely no rights. Your boss could sack you for no reason at all. It’s an appalling situation. I speak as someone who was effectively sacked by a capricious boss for having complained about a colleague who sang in the office. If you have worked for more then two years then you have some form of job security. In the latter case I would stand up to him, and say you were not driving, and ask him to prove otherwise. Accepting what you say, it sounds like he is using you to take his fine and points. Are you a union member? If so, talk with them. If l so than two years, you have to decide whether or not you can stand up to him. The current law, implemented by the Tories, is appalling. By the way, I vote Tory.
Boxer - 3rd party video used for prosecution - Bromptonaut
The current law, implemented by the Tories, is appalling. By the way, I vote Tory.

It's at least a little better than it was in that where recourse to the Employment Tribunal is needed there are no longer prohibitive fees. The Supreme Court's decision, in effect a lesson on constitutional rights delivered to the Lord Chancellor, is a wonderful piece of irony.

www.supremecourt.uk/cases/docs/uksc-2015-0233-judg...f

Boxer - 3rd party video used for prosecution - Leif
The current law, implemented by the Tories, is appalling. By the way, I vote Tory.

It's at least a little better than it was in that where recourse to the Employment Tribunal is needed there are no longer prohibitive fees. The Supreme Court's decision, in effect a lesson on constitutional rights delivered to the Lord Chancellor, is a wonderful piece of irony.

www.supremecourt.uk/cases/docs/uksc-2015-0233-judg...f

It couldn’t be worse for the first two years, you have zero rights, a disgrace. I don’t see the Labours discussing this.

Boxer - 3rd party video used for prosecution - KJP 123

Not just companies, families need to keep these records too.

Michael (Lord) Howard was convicted of failing to provide details:

"He said: 'It could be me, it could be my wife. We make that journey regularly and we can't remember who was driving."

What seems to have particularly upset the court was:

However, Lord Howard should have initially given full details of who the other driver could have been, including name, age and address, rather than simply saying his "wife".

"At no stage did the defendant provide the particulars of his wife in his letter. To simply refer to his 'wife' does not provide sufficient information.

The conviction was overturned by the high court but few could take it that far.

Compare this to a case in the Cleveland police area. Admittedly old and the heads of that force criticised the outcome but I think it has happened since.

Detective Superintendent Adrian Roberts, “told traffic police he could not recall who was driving his car when it was photographed speeding in a built-up 30mph area.”

“[He] was sent a fixed penalty order by post but the ticket was withdrawn after he said he could not remember if he was in the car.”

“The speed camera photograph had been taken from behind and showed a man with short dark hair. She [ACC Cannings] declined to say whether any inquiries had been made to establish how many other people were entitled to drive Mr Roberts' private car.”

Boxer - 3rd party video used for prosecution - Middleman

She [ACC Cannings] declined to say whether any inquiries had been made to establish how many other people were entitled to drive Mr Roberts' private car.”

Why should such enquiries have been made? S172 is quite clear in that the Registered Keeper has an obligation to provide the driver's details. He shall be Not Guilty only if he can convince a court that he did not know who was driving and could not, by exercising "reasonable diligence", find out who was. The police have no obligation to assist him with that task.

What I don't understand in Superintendent Roberts' case is how he was issued with a Fixed Penalty when the driver was unknown.