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The move to electric cars is gathering pace and I think it will happen quicker than most people predict. The infrastructure is being created already. The government has announced that all new homes should include an EV charge point, which would at least be quicker than a normal 3-pin socket.
30 years ago most people wouldn't have foreseen internet in most homes. And when early diesel cars were introduced, the doubters said they were slow, noisy and smelly. yet we reached a stage where over 50% of new cars were diesel-powered although that's probably dropped since the VW scandal.
And the grid will probably be able to cope, maybe with a few hiccups along the way, maybe. There are 3 reasons why I think this is the case. 1) An electric car consumes no more electricity than a petrol or diesel one has already 'consumed' at the fuel refining stage. 2) We're moving to greater reliance on renewables. 3) Grid scale energy storage will act as a buffer between generation and demand.
I agree that Elon Musk shouldn't take his eye off the ball re. his core business - electric vehicles, static battery installations and solar roof PV generation.
Edited by Sofa Spud on 16/07/2018 at 09:18
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You dont mention the many challenges we face to fully adopt electric powered cars.
We do face a power shortage for all sorts of reasons, ( electric cars are just one factor) one being our successive governments have not invested in new power stations, of whatever kind. EV high power charge points are not fitted in most homes and will require a significant upgrade to all local power grids. Electric cars requires a different power source, (more conventional power stations) and not take their energy for fuel, as in ICE cars. They cannot use the power from refineries. We do not have any grid scale energy storage. We have not built any yet.
Wind power only works if the wind is blowing, and sometimes it does not. I am a big fan of electric cars but as a country we have not made all the investments needed for this huge change.
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You dont mention the many challenges we face to fully adopt electric powered cars.
I am of the opinion not many are listening, most people seem to think if you click your fingers it will happen, hardly anyone mentions the fact we need more power stations, only that all residences should have a charging station built.
I think most people are not aware of whats needed, just as people have been mislead over diesels
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I think the rise of EV's will be self limiting. The infrastructure will have to grow slowly along with the uptake of EV's. I believe it could take 50 to 100 years before all vehicles are electric. When I can drive 400 miles to visit my family, still have a couple of hundred miles range left and then fully recharge it in the time it takes me to have a coffee with no queuing at the charger, which has a guaranteed electrical supply and which costs me no more to charge than the equivalent in petrol and when the car costs the same as a petrol car, I might consider it.
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You dont mention the many challenges we face to fully adopt electric powered cars.
I am of the opinion not many are listening, most people seem to think if you click your fingers it will happen, hardly anyone mentions the fact we need more power stations, only that all residences should have a charging station built.
I think most people are not aware of whats needed, just as people have been mislead over diesels
You are overthinking this. The answer is simple. We burn petrol in powerstations to generate the electricity we need for electric cars. And for convenience each home has its own petrol to electricity generator, with home petrol deliveries. Simples.
On a more serious note, renewables might offer a viable way ahead, along with more efficient batteries which surely will come along given the potential financial rewards. A battery that is twice as efficient would be a game changer.
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"Wind power only works if the wind is blowing, and sometimes it does not. I am a big fan of electric cars but as a country we have not made all the investments needed for this huge change."
It doesn't help when governments axe projects like the plan for a tidal lagoon in Swansea because it's too expensive. They favour a mix of wind and nuclear power instead, because the 'costs incurred by tax payers and consumers would be too high'. And yet they've been dragging their feet over the building of new nuclear power stations for years.
It might be expensive, but tides are fairly reliable as far as I can make out, we have some of the fastest in the world, and to not utilise this makes us an archaic and backward looking country.
But they are quite happy to stipulate that homes must have an EV charging socket. I agree with what someone said on here. Governments aren't interested in the future. I suppose that's why we are relying on gas turbines as our main output.
Edited by corax on 16/07/2018 at 21:17
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Like so many other innovations, it will be simple to manage while only a fraction of the population have the new technology. Just as our roads did not become seriously congested until the second half of last century, when the majority abandoned train travel when they were able to afford (relatively) cheap cars. We are now past the point when the road system can cope with rush-hour, or even 9-to-5 traffic, and it is impossible to expand the system fast enough to keep up.
I just wonder how things will develop if large businesses try to use drones for deliveries. The 2-D problem is bad enough, but 3-D ?
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I agree with what someone said on here. Governments aren't interested in the future.
Of course they aren't - the first priority is to retain power, so don't rock the boat too much. And the chances are that the opposition will get elected, so there's no real point in thinking further ahead than that.
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It doesn't help when governments axe projects like the plan for a tidal lagoon in Swansea because it's too expensive.
I agree that tidal power is an excellent alternative to wind, etc (as you say, the tide never stops and we have strong tides in Britain), however in the case of the Swansea project, the Government was right. The company and directors behind the project were very good at publicity, but the costings and financing of the project would have put Bernie Madoff's Ponzi scheme in the shade. It was a huge scam in the making, camouflaged with a nice coat of green paint.
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The move to electric cars is gathering pace and I think it will happen quicker than most people predict. The infrastructure is being created already. The government has announced that all new homes should include an EV charge point, which would at least be quicker than a normal 3-pin socket.
30 years ago most people wouldn't have foreseen internet in most homes. And when early diesel cars were introduced, the doubters said they were slow, noisy and smelly. yet we reached a stage where over 50% of new cars were diesel-powered although that's probably dropped since the VW scandal.
And the grid will probably be able to cope, maybe with a few hiccups along the way, maybe. There are 3 reasons why I think this is the case. 1) An electric car consumes no more electricity than a petrol or diesel one has already 'consumed' at the fuel refining stage. 2) We're moving to greater reliance on renewables. 3) Grid scale energy storage will act as a buffer between generation and demand.
I agree that Elon Musk shouldn't take his eye off the ball re. his core business - electric vehicles, static battery installations and solar roof PV generation.
We import fuel - almost all diesel and a lot of petrol
Renewables don't work at all on calm nights. Or on calm days.
SO your arguments are just plain wrong...
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The move to electric cars is gathering pace and I think it will happen quicker than most people predict. The infrastructure is being created already. The government has announced that all new homes should include an EV charge point, which would at least be quicker than a normal 3-pin socket.
30 years ago most people wouldn't have foreseen internet in most homes. And when early diesel cars were introduced, the doubters said they were slow, noisy and smelly. yet we reached a stage where over 50% of new cars were diesel-powered although that's probably dropped since the VW scandal.
And the grid will probably be able to cope, maybe with a few hiccups along the way, maybe. There are 3 reasons why I think this is the case. 1) An electric car consumes no more electricity than a petrol or diesel one has already 'consumed' at the fuel refining stage. 2) We're moving to greater reliance on renewables. 3) Grid scale energy storage will act as a buffer between generation and demand.
I agree that Elon Musk shouldn't take his eye off the ball re. his core business - electric vehicles, static battery installations and solar roof PV generation.
We import fuel - almost all diesel and a lot of petrol
Renewables don't work at all on calm nights. Or on calm days.
SO your arguments are just plain wrong...
So you're trying to say imported diesel and petrol doesn't have to be refined, then? Where are all the diesel wells and petrol wells, then? I've never heard of any!!
We've had a lot of calm days recently. But they happen to have been sunny too, and we've been getting up to about one third of our electricity from solar during the middle of the day.
I think we're well past the stage when it's necessary to point out that renwables are dependent on the weather. Is the glass half full or half empty? It's all about the finite fossil fuels (mainly natural gas) that are saved when the wind is blowing and / or the sun is shining. Last year the UK got almost 30% of its electricity from renewables. Yet as recently as 2010 it was well under 10%. While we may never get to 100% we'll probably get to 50% overall in a few years, with 100% on some days..
If my arguments were wrong the changes that are happening now wouldn't be going on, would they?
Edited by Sofa Spud on 17/07/2018 at 21:56
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And the grid will probably be able to cope, maybe with a few hiccups along the way, maybe. There are 3 reasons why I think this is the case. 1) An electric car consumes no more electricity than a petrol or diesel one has already 'consumed' at the fuel refining stage.
Your argument is undermined by the above nonsense. Not everything you read online is true.
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Indeed. One US gallon requires 0.2 kWh of electricity to refine it. Not suprisingly, the disinformation comes from Elon Musk.
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Indeed. One US gallon requires 0.2 kWh of electricity to refine it. Not suprisingly, the disinformation comes from Elon Musk.
Would that be the same Elon Musk that accused one of the cavers who helped save the Thai coach and kids of being a ‘pedo’? Nice man. Or not.
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The last PM we had that had a proper scientific qualification was one M Thatcher.
The present PM, cabinet, and most MPs have little or no knowledge of the Laws of Physics, Thermodynamics or anything else about how real world technology operates.
This is why they blindly accept edicts from the EU and vested interests because they do not have the background knowledge or scepticism to challenge unrealistic ideas.
As a further point, if the population increases by 250,000 a year (as it has done for the last several years) with no proportionat increase in houses, hospital, schools, roads AND electricity supply capacity, the resulting shortages, congestion and other forseeable problems are clearly an effect of this increase.
It may not be politically correct to point this out or to say that most of the population increase is due to immigration and not to an increase in the birth rate or longevity.
Edited by galileo on 16/07/2018 at 23:23
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................. yes, and yesterday it was reported the net migration to the UK from OUTSIDE the EU (i.e. the part we can control), was at its highest for many years!
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It may not be politically correct to point this out or to say that most of the population increase is due to immigration and not to an increase in the birth rate or longevity.
Quite right. And the increase has been so sudden, and unexpected by the authorities, that services and utilities could not hope to keep up. To say this is to be labelled racist by some.
The lack of scientific training in government and the civil service is shocking.
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"Would that be the same Elon Musk that accused one of the cavers who helped save the Thai coach and kids of being a ‘pedo’? Nice man. Or not."
Yes - I think that may turn out to be a 'Ratner moment' for Mr Musk. From the reports of corners being cut to ramp up production of the Model 3, I fear that Teslas may soon make Land Rovers look like paragons of reliability in comparison.
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And the grid will probably be able to cope, maybe with a few hiccups along the way, maybe. There are 3 reasons why I think this is the case. 1) An electric car consumes no more electricity than a petrol or diesel one has already 'consumed' at the fuel refining stage.
Your argument is undermined by the above nonsense. Not everything you read online is true.
Can you provide statistics to show it's not true that have any more credibilty than the ;nonsense'?
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Can you provide statistics to show it's not true that have any more credibilty than the ;nonsense'?
Here's a start:
greentransportation.info/energy-transportation/gas...l
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That's some figures someone has written down but it's not necessarily any more credible that Elon Musk's claim. Even if only 15% of the enrgy used in the refining process is electrical, that doesn't make the other 85% irrelevant, The gas or whatever that is used in the refeinery could instead be used to generate electricity in a gas turbine power station, although admittedly it's a non-renewable source.
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Here’s one example:
www.cfr.org/blog/do-gasoline-based-cars-really-use...o
And bear in mind that the amount of energy required to generate that x kWh that goes into the battery is much more than x due to transmission losses. Hence your state sent was nonsense.
At present a significant amount of the electricity stored in a car battery is used to transport the battery! If batteries become significantly more efficient, then dodgems makes that become competitive.
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Here’s one example: www.cfr.org/blog/do-gasoline-based-cars-really-use...o And bear in mind that the amount of energy required to generate that x kWh that goes into the battery is much more than x due to transmission losses. Hence your state sent was nonsense. At present a significant amount of the electricity stored in a car battery is used to transport the battery! If batteries become significantly more efficient, then dodgems makes that become competitive.
And a significant amount of the fuel stored in the tank of a petrol or diesel car is used in transporting the engine, transmission, cooling system, exhaust system and fuel system.
Transmission losses in the national power distribution network are not great - up to about 12%, apparently.
matter2energy.wordpress.com/2013/02/22/wells-to-wh.../
Edited by Sofa Spud on 23/07/2018 at 23:55
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